Football talk

[Narcosys]

It's not whatever, it's recklessness, without a significant payoff. He provided a spark at first, but he got more careless each week. No thanks. We can find someone else.

It is whatever because he can change it. This is the most fair weather I've ever seen you and im pretty sure you've defended others for more. Luck is careless and can't seem to lead his receivers and misjudges their height even tho he's been playing with them for 3 years. Let's drop him.

[Superman]

It is whatever because he can change it. This is the most fair weather I've ever seen you and im pretty sure you've defended others for more. Luck is careless and can't seem to lead his receivers and misjudges their height even tho he's been playing with them for 3 years. Let's drop him.

 

Nah. There's a wide chasm between sometimes inaccurate passing and a blatant refusal to fair catch, especially when the QB makes up for his mistakes by carrying the team every week. Cribbs even posted a defiant message on his Instagram last week. He's not going to change all of a sudden.

 

And we're talking about a returner who was on the team for two months, not a core member of the roster. 

[Superman]

Just do what I have been calling for, Put Whalen back on Kick and Punt Return and down the ball, So what if he is not a dynamic punt returner, He can catch and the majority of the time makes good decisions with the ball

 

Why can't we have a good returner who secures possession? Why do we have to settle for what basically amounts to a portable net?

[Two_pound]

We actually had Blount stutter stepping and cutting back a number of times last night the tackling was awful, the exact opposite of the Denver game the week before.

[Gavin]

Why can't we have a good returner who secures possession? Why do we have to settle for what basically amounts to a portable net?

I didn't think Whalen was a bad returner to begin with. even though he downed a lot of them I was alright with that, I thought the blocking wasn't very consistent all year, Ideally I'd love to have a dynamic returner who can secure possessions but if we somehow never get that (They really are few and far between in the NFL) then Im fine with Whalen

[Superman]

I didn't think Whalen was a bad returner to begin with. even though he downed a lot of them I was alright with that, I thought the blocking wasn't very consistent all year, Ideally I'd love to have a dynamic returner who can secure possessions but if we somehow never get that (They really are few and far between in the NFL) then Im fine with Whalen

 

Griff fair catching was fine. Griff trying to return was a problem, and he made some mistakes along the way. I'd rather have the guy who just secures possession than the playmaker who makes a bunch of mistakes. But I don't think it's that hard to find a fast guy with some wiggle who isn't trying to be a hero.

[Gavin]

Griff fair catching was fine. Griff trying to return was a problem, and he made some mistakes along the way. I'd rather have the guy who just secures possession than the playmaker who makes a bunch of mistakes. But I don't think it's that hard to find a fast guy with some wiggle who isn't trying to be a hero.

I agree, Im more concerned about how the O Line issues in regards to run blocking will be addressed if at all

[Superman]

I agree, Im more concerned about how the O Line issues in regards to run blocking will be addressed if at all

 

I see the two as mutually exclusive, but yes, I agree.

[sundance75]

You really think our OL doesn't need that much work?  Thornton is a solid backup, but should not be our starter.  Holmes should be our future guy, but wasn't this season to find that out, and we didn't give him a chance, til the end?  It's crap how we do the plug in play garbage.  The first week Holmes was healthy we should've benched Shipley, the Harrison experiment was a waste of time. 

 

We need to just spend money on a Pro Bowl RG and be done with that issue.

 

If Cherilus doesn't look like he will be back to his self in the pre season, we need to immediately dump him (cut our losses) and go after an elite RT before the season starts.  I say give him a chance though.  I would say if he doesn't look great in pre season, set up a deal for him and a future 2-3 round pick for a young proven RT.

 

I realize our defense has big needs too, but I also have a philosophy that if the OL and offense is dominating a game the defense isn't on the field and isn't as big of a liability.  That's why we were able to win a SB with Manning, eventhough the defense wasn't too good. 

 

Our defense is too inconsistent though.  I think Landry isn't the best but isn't as bad as everybody makes him out to be.  Him and Adams deserve another year, with Sergio filling in when necessary.  We need to draft or pick up a FA pass rusher that WILL get 10+ sacks this year (the draft probably isn't going to do that for us).  Then a coverage LB is also a big need.  I think that can be done in the draft though.

 

IMO this is how our offseason should go:

FA-RG & OLB (Don't be afraid to spend some money)

Draft- 1.  ILB  2.  RT  3. DT  4.  Safety  5.  OLB OR WR (I would prefer to let Reggie walk and resign Nicks to solve this issue)

 

I wouldn't be opposed of trading off a player and pick to upgrade in the draft either.  RT RG ILB (coverage) or OLB (pass rusher)

I also realize we need to be better stopping the power run game, that's why we need to get another big beast to put beside Jones.

 

You really think our OL doesn't need that much work?  Thornton is a solid backup, but should not be our starter.  Holmes should be our future guy, but wasn't this season to find that out, and we didn't give him a chance, til the end?  It's crap how we do the plug in play garbage.  The first week Holmes was healthy we should've benched Shipley, the Harrison experiment was a waste of time. 

 

We need to just spend money on a Pro Bowl RG and be done with that issue.

 

If Cherilus doesn't look like he will be back to his self in the pre season, we need to immediately dump him (cut our losses) and go after an elite RT before the season starts.  I say give him a chance though.  I would say if he doesn't look great in pre season, set up a deal for him and a future 2-3 round pick for a young proven RT.

 

I realize our defense has big needs too, but I also have a philosophy that if the OL and offense is dominating a game the defense isn't on the field and isn't as big of a liability.  That's why we were able to win a SB with Manning, eventhough the defense wasn't too good. 

 

Our defense is too inconsistent though.  I think Landry isn't the best but isn't as bad as everybody makes him out to be.  Him and Adams deserve another year, with Sergio filling in when necessary.  We need to draft or pick up a FA pass rusher that WILL get 10+ sacks this year (the draft probably isn't going to do that for us).  Then a coverage LB is also a big need.  I think that can be done in the draft though.

 

IMO this is how our offseason should go:

FA-RG & OLB (Don't be afraid to spend some money)

Draft- 1.  ILB  2.  RT  3. DT  4.  Safety  5.  OLB OR WR (I would prefer to let Reggie walk and resign Nicks to solve this issue)

 

I wouldn't be opposed of trading off a player and pick to upgrade in the draft either.  RT RG ILB (coverage) or OLB (pass rusher)

I also realize we need to be better stopping the power run game, that's why we need to get another big beast to put beside Jones.

[sundance75]

You really think our OL doesn't need that much work?  Thornton is a solid backup, but should not be our starter.  Holmes should be our future guy, but wasn't this season to find that out, and we didn't give him a chance, til the end?  It's crap how we do the plug in play garbage.  The first week Holmes was healthy we should've benched Shipley, the Harrison experiment was a waste of time. 

 

We need to just spend money on a Pro Bowl RG and be done with that issue.

 

If Cherilus doesn't look like he will be back to his self in the pre season, we need to immediately dump him (cut our losses) and go after an elite RT before the season starts.  I say give him a chance though.  I would say if he doesn't look great in pre season, set up a deal for him and a future 2-3 round pick for a young proven RT.

 

I realize our defense has big needs too, but I also have a philosophy that if the OL and offense is dominating a game the defense isn't on the field and isn't as big of a liability.  That's why we were able to win a SB with Manning, eventhough the defense wasn't too good. 

 

Our defense is too inconsistent though.  I think Landry isn't the best but isn't as bad as everybody makes him out to be.  Him and Adams deserve another year, with Sergio filling in when necessary.  We need to draft or pick up a FA pass rusher that WILL get 10+ sacks this year (the draft probably isn't going to do that for us).  Then a coverage LB is also a big need.  I think that can be done in the draft though.

 

IMO this is how our offseason should go:

FA-RG & OLB (Don't be afraid to spend some money)

Draft- 1.  ILB  2.  RT  3. DT  4.  Safety  5.  OLB OR WR (I would prefer to let Reggie walk and resign Nicks to solve this issue)

 

I wouldn't be opposed of trading off a player and pick to upgrade in the draft either.  RT RG ILB (coverage) or OLB (pass rusher)

I also realize we need to be better stopping the power run game, that's why we need to get another big beast to put beside Jones.

I cannot believe you people buy into this mirage that the Colts play the best players!  Shipley should never have been benched.  He played the position better than any of them.   He did well and the benched him.  There was never any question when he played.  The media, scouts and fans recognized it!  The other two needed to "develop" and they started.  Neither of them did well, but they were the starters.  This is almost borderline nuts.  Since when do you bench someone when they are doing well.  You all bought into this nonsense about developing.  You are what you are...the players who are good in the NFL are good from the first game...Pouncy, Mack, Unger, Kelcy, Mangold etc.  The staff says they want to be a super bowl team?  Well it will NEVER happen if they keep making moves like this!  AND it wasn't just Shipley, it was a number of other players on this team!  Shame on the coaching staff for making these poor decisions! THEY caused the continuity in the line to be disrupted, there were some injuries but this center situation was ridiculous!  It was like musical chairs!  Then they had the nerve to question why people asked about it.  They questioned it because it was nuts! 

[Superman]

Good break down as ever. I guess when you put it like that it's worth the short term pain, though how would envisage replacing him, the draft?

Just read that Cherilus had a "small" knee scope. If that's the same knee on which he had microfracture surgery, that's terrible news.

[NewColtsFan]

Just read that Cherilus had a "small" knee scope. If that's the same knee on which he had microfracture surgery, that's terrible news.

 

 

I'm also guessing Cherilus will also need either full blown surgery, or at least a scope done on his shoulder.   Wasn't that the injury that ended his season?    So, he'll need some time to heal up and be ready for camp in the spring....

[SteelCityColt]

Just read that Cherilus had a "small" knee scope. If that's the same knee on which he had microfracture surgery, that's terrible news.

 

That's game over IMO given his previous injury history. Would that give us scope (no pun intended) to look at some form of injury settlement?

[AntonMcG]

hahaha yous remember David Reed? All this talk about special teams brought him back to mind. Good god that guy was awful.  It was almost unbelievable how bad he was.

 

Arguably the worst returner of all time.

[Coffeedrinker]

How do you know he was tired? How do you know it wasn't just sloppy and inconsistent mechanics?

I don't know, it could be as you state.  To me it appeared he started losing his form during the last few plays of long drives and later in the game and that usually indicates conditioning.

[ruksak]

Why can't we have a good returner who secures possession? 

Extremely rare.

 

 

 

Why do we have to settle for what basically amounts to a portable net?

I'll take a "net" over a burner any day. That Cribbs goof up killed us, which I know you agree with, but I'd rather just take possession and let Luck do his thing. The issue I'm noticing, both last Sunday and the previous game vs Denver; Cribbs suffers absolutely horrible downfield blocking. Against Denver, twice the Broncos gunner bled through 2 Colts special teams blockers in a 1 on 2 situation. Cribbs had every reason to believe he would have a shot at a return (not including his face-catch attempt, that was just awful). 

 

We need better special teams, but it goes much deeper than just who's returning the kick/punt. Our special teams coach must be done away with, and much better ancillary special teams players must be put in place. Devon Hester in his prime wouldn't even have a chance the way we block for our returners. 

[ColtStronger]

Andrew has to have receivers who can get themselves open so signing Nicks would be a BRAINDEAD move. Good grief!

Yet, people think we need to try2 keep Reggie and Duron Carter would be his saving grace?  SMH!!

[ColtStronger]

It's not risky. It's crazy. He's not worth a multi-year deal, and certainly not at $4.5 - 5m / year. I don't know if you've paid any attention to the market, but it doesn't support that kind of price tag for him. I'd rather have Cecil Shorts for that kind of money.

 

Great guy, he's done everything they've asked him to do, never complained despite not having a huge role. But the production just isn't there, so there's no reason to pay him like the production is there. I feel like WR is an easy issue to solve. There are a bunch of FAs, and a bunch of guys in the draft who can play right away. 

 

I'd re-sign Nicks for one year, $2m, at most. He'll get a better offer from someone else, and will take it. 

He definitely won't sign for 2M and he can get more money elsewhere, as you said.  I was thinking he signed for more than that on his "prove-it" contract.  Perhaps I'm wrong, because I really don't know a whole lot about how much players get paid, but for a 4 yr contract I think 18 Million isn't that terrible with incentives.  My point is that he can produce more, but has only been given a small opportunity at the end of the season.  That doesn't mean he CANT produce but that we haven't been involving him. 

 

I definitely agree WR's are a dime a dozen, that can get the job done, especially with a good QB.  Then we go through another "catch-up" period, where they are the 3rd or 4th WR and people complain about their production though.  I'm not saying he's the total answer, but just like the problems with OL, we do this plug & play crap and it doesn't work!  Why keep the search going when we can put it to rest and focus on the main problems with the LB's S on defense and C RG and RT on offense.

[AntonMcG]

He definitely won't sign for 2M and he can get more money elsewhere, as you said.  I was thinking he signed for more than that on his "prove-it" contract.  Perhaps I'm wrong, because I really don't know a whole lot about how much players get paid, but for a 4 yr contract I think 18 Million isn't that terrible with incentives.  My point is that he can produce more, but has only been given a small opportunity at the end of the season.  That doesn't mean he CANT produce but that we haven't been involving him. 

 

I definitely agree WR's are a dime a dozen, that can get the job done, especially with a good QB.  Then we go through another "catch-up" period, where they are the 3rd or 4th WR and people complain about their production though.  I'm not saying he's the total answer, but just like the problems with OL, we do this plug & play crap and it doesn't work!  Why keep the search going when we can put it to rest and focus on the main problems with the LB's S on defense and C RG and RT on offense.

 

Ha.

[ColtStronger]

The only guard I would want the Colts to go after is Iupati.  But I don't think he will be available come free agency.  But yes, I think Thornton could become a very good guard.  He has everything you look for in that position...  He's super quick off the snap, good functional strength, excellent footwork and keeps his head on a swivel.

 

I think he looked bad at times because;  Harrison was not a good center and I don't think most fans realize how much bad center play can effect the guard play, two, I think Thornton has horrible conditioning.  When he'd get tired is when you would see him leaning too far, not moving his feet once engaged, not keeping his knees properly bent, etc.  And IMO conditioning is one of the easiest things to improve.  Now he may show (or has shown) that he is not dedicated enough to work on his conditioning and if that is the case then he won't improve significantly.  But I'm willing to give him two more offseasons in the Colts conditioning program to improve.

I definitely agree with your opinion.  I don't think there will be too many RG in FA that would fit in witht the Colts, but IMO it wouldn't be a bad pick to get a stud in the 1st round.  As you said Thornton has had an opportunity and hasn't capitalized on it.  That's why he shouldn't be given another chance.  I realize if you're playing beside Harrison, Thornton's job was a little more difficult, but that means it's time to step up and prove your worth, and once again, he failed.  He also has injury issues on top of his lack of work ethic.  He should be conditioned later in the season, you can excuse that perhaps in the first few weeks of the season. 

 

I wanted a new RG at the start of the season, and IMO this should've been his last chance.  He was suppose to be a backup behind D Thomas anyway.  No reason to keep trying to pull something out of nothing.  I'm not saying cut him, because he is good depth, but we need BIG PHYSICAL guys that WILL get the job done.  I'm tired of the staff saying, "We will give this guy a shot".  NO, it should be, "This is our guy" and we don't have to worry about "evaluating the positions". 

 

Yes, I admit I was one of the persistent fans wanting to sign AM last offseason, but were still here wondering when the OL play isn't going to keep us from winning the SB.  Experiments are for rebuilding teams.  Sure the first 3 seasons are that.  #4 with as much talent as we have on offense, is inexcusable to not have a brute OL.  Time to fix the problem and stop praying for a miracle!

[OffensivelyPC]

Maybe I'm a fool, but I don't think the line is that far way. Thornton is very talented, but he's raw. Throwing him into a reserve/rotation role is going to be an advantage, depth wise. We need two players, really. One young guy, one vet who can perform at a high level. I get the frustration, as it always seems like we're two players away. But that's still just two players.

 

I also don't have a problem with the defensive line, overall. It's only against the Pats that they look this way. We could definitely use a difference maker up front. We have plenty of girth and size, but no one who stresses an offensive line with his ability to beat blockers and create disruption, no real consistent penetrator. Zach Kerr looked like a promising prospect, but I think he lost his legs and started playing sloppy. Regardless, I think there are draftable solutions there. And having a game changing edge rusher will help, also. Newsome will get better, and we get Mathis back (probably not 2013 Mathis, but still), and we can add to the rotation.

 

What hurts is that we have missed on a handful of draft picks, especially high picks. I think everyone in the building knows this, so I expect that to change. The 2014 draft was much better -- Mewhort, Moncrief and Newsome are long term building blocks, IMO -- but Werner isn't close to being worthy of a first rounder, Richardson is terrible, Thornton and Holmes are still around but not quite pulling their weight yet, and while it's great to have Davis, we're paying him like a top notch CB (which he deserves) when he represents a third year rookie who should be making less than $1m/year. 

 

So yeah, there's a lot to fix, but I wouldn't be surprised if 20 of the guys who are on the roster now aren't around next season. This is the time for a mini-overhaul, and to bring in some significant talent to round out the core. Luck, Hilton, Fleener, Allen, AC, Mewhort, Moncrief, Davis, Jones, Toler, Newsome -- those are the guys. No ILBs, no RBs, no safeties, only one DL, one pass rusher... Our core needs a couple /three game changers. Everyone else can fill in and round out the roster.

That still seems like a pretty tall order.  It requires us to hit on at least a combination of high draft picks and FA signings - not to mention get some contribution from some of the lower picks.  Thankfully if Grigs has been excellent anywhere in player acquisition, it's getting guys later in the draft to contribute and some contribution from some of the lesser heralded FA signings.  But like you've said, where we have really hurt ourselves is missing with the higher picks, namely the 2013 draft class and free agency spending.  Missed almost all them.  Bjoern hasn't worked out.  Thornton and Hughes have been okay, which I suppose isn't a huge knock on the 13 draft class, but certainly not as good as his 2012/2014 picks in the 2nd-5th round.  Then there's Landry and Cherilus who we wiffed on in FA that year.   

 

There's a pretty good pool of talent available in this years free agency, of course much of what follows depends on who does and doesn't get re-signed.  At pass rusher, there's Houston (who I don't think will ever make it to FA - he'll get tagged bare minimum), Worilds and Pernell McPhee (who, I'm sure would love to play along the line with Art Jones again) might find their way into the market.  On the interior, Dan Williams from Arizona might be a nice addition or maybe even Stephen Paea. 

 

On the OL, which I admit you devote more time to and thus are much better with so I'm curious on your take, Derek Newton might be a good fit.  Not a great pass blocker, but I think part of that had to do with Houston's QB situation.  But I think he was much improved over 2013 as a run blocker.  Bulaga I think is also available at RT, but he doesn't offer much in the way of run blocking - not this past year anyway.  At RG and C, I'm not really sure what we can do here - at least in FA.  There's a several Guards that will probably be available, but none of them I don't think are worth putting Thornton in a reserve role.  Iupati and Orlando Franklin are good, but teh amount they would cost I don't think will cover the benefit.  At C, I really only see one guy people talking much about - Rodney Hudson.  But I don't know enough about him to say we should pay him to start over Holmes. 

 

For the rest, there are some decent guys available, but I'm not of the opinion that we need to pay big bucks for anyone in particular.  I'd prefer to address RB, if we do ti at all, in the draft - this yera's class seems to be chock-full of them - preferably sometime after the 3rd round, but wouldn't necessarily be opposed to using a 3rd round on a back depending on who it was.  We just have bigger needs.   With Toler and Vontae Davis, we don't really need game wreckers (though they are certainly welcome) at safety and ILB, we just need to be able to stick with our guys for 3 or 4 seconds so the pass rush can do it's thing.  I'm sure a lot of people on here will want McCourty, and I don't have a problem with that, but he'll want a Dashon Goldson type of deal.   DaNorris Searcy might be available as a S option. He'sn ot a game changer and I'm curious what kind of offers he'll get if not re-signed, but he's serviceable.  But at either of those positions, I'm not seeing anyone in FA that I'm in love with.  I could see us putting Mike Adams or some other vet getting near the end of his career at FS again.   

 

Of course, it's too soon to make any sort of predictions and I haven't even looked at this year's upcoming draft class outside of a couple of guys.  So we'll see where this all ends up in the next 4 and 1/2 months.  I think it's a long shot that we hit on all the necessary positions to be a super bowl contender by next year, but we greatly improve our chances if we hit on teh couple of OL positions and DL positions and/or get vast improvement from guys like Thornton, Hughes, or even Chapman and Werner (not holding my breath on Chapman/Werner).

[ColtStronger]

I cannot believe you people buy into this mirage that the Colts play the best players!  Shipley should never have been benched.  He played the position better than any of them.   He did well and the benched him.  There was never any question when he played.  The media, scouts and fans recognized it!  The other two needed to "develop" and they started.  Neither of them did well, but they were the starters.  This is almost borderline nuts.  Since when do you bench someone when they are doing well.  You all bought into this nonsense about developing.  You are what you are...the players who are good in the NFL are good from the first game...Pouncy, Mack, Unger, Kelcy, Mangold etc.  The staff says they want to be a super bowl team?  Well it will NEVER happen if they keep making moves like this!  AND it wasn't just Shipley, it was a number of other players on this team!  Shame on the coaching staff for making these poor decisions! THEY caused the continuity in the line to be disrupted, there were some injuries but this center situation was ridiculous!  It was like musical chairs!  Then they had the nerve to question why people asked about it.  They questioned it because it was nuts! 

I definitely hear you!  If it was my way, we would've paid Alex Mack what he wanted in the offseason.  I think it would've made a world of difference.  The reason why they should've just put Holmes back in, is because they've proved they are committed to him, but were beating around the bush about it.  He should've got his job back day 1 when he was healthy again.  I think with 13 games on the season instead of like 4 at the C position, he would be okay going into next year.  They WILL NOT bring in another C, to fill his place, so if that's the way it's gonna be then actually show 100% confidence in him and get him the experience. 

 

I do think Shipley WAS better, but if Holmes had this whole season under his belt, going into next season after camp, I think he would surpass AQ at that point.  The benefit would pay off by then.  Now were kinda stuck in the same boat!  I'm not a huge Holmes fan, but I think with time he will be good.  I understand you don't play people if there not ready, but I've said since last year, this upcoming season is our year.  Sticking to the plan is what you gotta do!  Deviating from that (Harrison, and Shipley) were just setbacks.

 

Moving forward, I think we need to take a close look at the RG and RT positions.  Definitely bring in a RG via the draft (1st rounder) or FA (Experienced Vet, if available).  Also take a look at Cherilus.  I think he will be better next season, but his words about his knee makes me wonder.  Kind of up in the air, so IMO we should play that as the time comes.  I hate giving away future picks, but next year is our year.  If Gosder is a no go, then trade him, his big contract and a 1st or 2nd future pick for a pro bowl RT.  I highly doubt that would ever happen, but I think he deserves a chance, because he was good last year!

[ColtStronger]

Ha.

If it was 4 year 16 MIL it's 1 yr=4 MIL.  Add incentives for a 500K Bonus for over 1000 yards and another 500K for over 10 TD's.  Another 500K for X amount of snaps, and another 500K for playing all 16 games, or winning the SB.  Does 3 Years 9 Million, with incentives for another 2 Million sound better?  Structure the contract where it wouldn't kill us to cut him after the season if he doesn't do better, after actually being included in the offense!  That's my problem with the situation, people expected him to be a top tier WR, but he is a 5th or 6th option on offense.  You can't have it both ways!

 

I'm not into all the contract stuff, and sure my numbers a bit off, but you really think it would be better to sign another guy to a prove it deal, and make them learn another playbook, while being clearly behind TY and Donte, not to mention DA or Fleener.  This new guy would put up the same stats as Nicks did this year, and fans would talk the same crap!

[mintor]

I definitely hear you!  If it was my way, we would've paid Alex Mack what he wanted in the offseason.  I think it would've made a world of difference.  The reason why they should've just put Holmes back in, is because they've proved they are committed to him, but were beating around the bush about it.  He should've got his job back day 1 when he was healthy again.  I think with 13 games on the season instead of like 4 at the C position, he would be okay going into next year.  They WILL NOT bring in another C, to fill his place, so if that's the way it's gonna be then actually show 100% confidence in him and get him the experience. 

 

I do think Shipley WAS better, but if Holmes had this whole season under his belt, going into next season after camp, I think he would surpass AQ at that point.  The benefit would pay off by then.  Now were kinda stuck in the same boat!  I'm not a huge Holmes fan, but I think with time he will be good.  I understand you don't play people if there not ready, but I've said since last year, this upcoming season is our year.  Sticking to the plan is what you gotta do!  Deviating from that (Harrison, and Shipley) were just setbacks.

 

Moving forward, I think we need to take a close look at the RG and RT positions.  Definitely bring in a RG via the draft (1st rounder) or FA (Experienced Vet, if available).  Also take a look at Cherilus.  I think he will be better next season, but his words about his knee makes me wonder.  Kind of up in the air, so IMO we should play that as the time comes.  I hate giving away future picks, but next year is our year.  If Gosder is a no go, then trade him, his big contract and a 1st or 2nd future pick for a pro bowl RT.  I highly doubt that would ever happen, but I think he deserves a chance, because he was good last year!

   need rg and rt in the draft first  , waste money on fa older players most are on their last legs.   o'line  best way is too draft players  look at dallas great young o'line  all were 1st and second rounders. rank top offense line in nfl.  first year that romo has a great offense line he done great with it.

[OffensivelyPC]

It's a complete failure on Grigson's part. 3 years into a rebuild we should have young draft picks on defense that we can build around for the future. Instead we have a bunch of medicore re-treads getting paid handsomely to play terribly. 2 years ago we had the most cap space in the NFL and our crown jewels from the FA class were Ricky Jean-Francois and Erik Walden. Two guys who aren't even starters on the majority of teams in the NFL.

 

We have had 2 of his 3 first-round picks as healthy scratches in this regimes biggest game. Absolutely horrible. The oline is still arguably as bad as it was when he first got here, if not slightly better. Failure. If we don't show signs of improvment next year, I don't see how Irsay can bring him back.

 

This roster is nowhere where it should be. 

I agree that we are behind, but I don't think we're THAT far behind.  RJF has been okay and Erik Walden has been better than people give him credit for, including their past teams.  They aren't going to take over a game, but you don't expect that to be the case when you pay them the couple million a year they are currently receiving. 

 

Don't disagree with you on the Trent/Werner part.  That is horrible and certainly a blight on his record.  You can't miss that badly on first round picks, traded or otherwise, and expect to win super bowls.  It's why we are behind on the rebuild.  Can we make up for it?  Sure, but I think it probably set us back a year.  At this point, I don't really expect a super bowl appearance next year.  We were just that exposed.  I mean, the Patriots didn't really change anything about their game plan in the last 3 times we've faced them and we got smashed in the face in embarrassing fashion.  Nothing screams roster gaps like knowing exactly what your opponent will do and being completely unable to stop it.  Blount was juking guys he had no business juking.  Brady I don't think completed but one pass that traveled any further than 20  yards through the air.  He didn't need to.  Almost every pass was to someone less than 10 yards down field.  We can get tehre, but not if we keep missing on our 1st round picks and the "bigger" name free agent signings.

[Surge89]

 

I posted this in another thread but it seemed more appropriate here.

 

To me, it seems kind of obvious what changes need to be made.  All season long the middle of the D was exploited in both the passing game and running game.  I like Chapman, Kerr and Hughes but they need experience.  So they need to address the ILB position and the safety position.  I've been impressed with Adams all season but he was outplayed by Landry yesterday and Landry did not play that well.  Freeman had two good games against Cincy and Denver but really struggled against the Pats, his problem is definitely not athleticism, I think it's more mental, he just doesn't seem to be able to process things fast enough to deal with an offense that gives you as many different looks as the Pats did.  DQ is solid but is a bit long in the tooth.  He was a good stop gap for this year but should not be counted on moving forward.

 

On offense, I think the Colts are pretty much set.  I'm one of the few that likes Thornton.  I think if he gets his conditioning he will be a top guard.  Mewhort was an excellent pick and I think Holmes showed that he is the center of the future and will be a good one.  So that leaves a RT.  If Cherilus comes back healthy then I think they take the mewhort approach and draft a guy that can fill in if GC gets hurt in 2015 or have a year to get acclimated and then move into the starting role in 2016. Get a RB (I think if they could get Coleman in the 2nd round that would be a good start) that can be relied upon to carry the ball 15-20 times a game, get a OC that will commit to running the ball consistently and get an oline coach in there that design some scheme to get lineman in better position on run blocking.

 

 

Quick question.  I see the oline as a talented group as well.  But I struggle to understand some of the blocking assignments we do.  To me it seems overly complicated and there is either A. too many shifts which leads to lineman making blocks late or B. the blocking assignments are being missed and they are just reacting.  Is this something you see as part of our problem?  I haven't had the time to watch over the Patriots game but I do know in Denver the blocking assignments looked a like night and day from the rest of the season.  Simple and more to our strengths with the talent we have.

[ColtStronger]

   need rg and rt in the draft first  , waste money on fa older players most are on their last legs.   o'line  best way is too draft players  look at dallas great young o'line  all were 1st and second rounders. rank top offense line in nfl.  first year that romo has a great offense line he done great with it.

I definitely think you start in the draft with dominant OL, even if they haven't played a down in the NFL, they're big, atheletic, and just need to be conditioned, and taught.  That way their also cheap starting out.  Problem is IDK if we will be able to get what we need picking 29th or 30th.  We may need to trade up, which I wouldn't be upset with, but for my sanity, please fix this OL!

[lollygagger8]

Agree 100% 

 

Here's some of my thoughts.....

 

In my opinion, our biggest need is O-Line: 

 

O-Line: I think Holmes is our best bet at Center, but we need a RG and RT. Cherilus' contract is much higher than his play suggests and I wouldn't be sad to see him go.

I say draft a RG and get a RT in FA. Or vice versa if a good RT falls to us in the 1st round - which it probably won't. 

Nixon, Thomas and Shipley are most likely gone, though I'd like to keep Shipley. I'm not sold on Thornton, and Reitz is great depth, but can't stay healthy full time. Louis has played admirably. Harrison played better at guard than at center. 

 

If we shore up the O-line, our running backs get better, and Luck has an actual pocket to throw from. Damage gets done. 

 

D-Line: 

I think Hughes is better than Chapman (both are just ok), but we still need a stud NT for our 3-4 to become stout. I hope Redding stays another year, but we'll have to get another DE if he retires. 

 

OLB: We don't know what Mathis will do when he comes back. Newsome did great for a rookie, so hopefully he develops. Walden and Werner are ok at run stopping, but not the greatest pass rushers. I think we need help there as well. If Adongo can play without getting hurt, then we might have something in him. But IF is a big word. 

 

ILB: 

A healthy Freeman is pretty good, but not great. DQ is good at stopping the run, but asked to cover too many times which is not a strength. We need a all around great LB. We also need some depth. Whatever happened to Muamba anyways? 

 

Secondary: 

I can't believe Toler didn't get hurt all year, but kudos to him for playing pretty well since he was picked on because Davis shuts down his man. Adams is definitely worth another year contract, but Landry needs replaced to shore up our safety situation. Brown is great depth, but we need someone to pair up with Adams. We also need some depth at CB since Burley and Purifoy are gone. 

 

WR: If we can sign Carter that'll help big time. Who knows what Reggie will be like, or if he retires. I don't believe Nicks is the answer either. When TY gets doubled, we still need another play maker. Moncreif should get better, but who knows what his ceiling is. I still think Whalen should get a shot in the slot. <- shots fired! lol 

 

Sorry it's so long, I was just typing stuff off the top of my head. 

[ColtStronger]

Thought you were talking about last night. Never mind, then, we agree.

 

By the way, his TD in the first Titans game was incredible. I was thinking he'd be able to play well all year long after I saw that. Fooled me...

But his career long catch in the 2nd Titans game was more than enough proof that he needs to retire.  Being ran down at the 2 after a 15 yard head start...  Time to hang em up Reggie!

[ColtStronger]

Just do what I have been calling for, Put Whalen back on Kick and Punt Return and down the ball, So what if he is not a dynamic punt returner, He can catch and the majority of the time makes good decisions with the ball

Whalen fumbled quite a few times also.  He normally has good hands and makes smart decisions though.

[Coffeedrinker]

Quick question.  I see the oline as a talented group as well.  But I struggle to understand some of the blocking assignments we do.  To me it seems overly complicated and there is either A. too many shifts which leads to lineman making blocks late or B. the blocking assignments are being missed and they are just reacting.  Is this something you see as part of our problem?  I haven't had the time to watch over the Patriots game but I do know in Denver the blocking assignments looked a like night and day from the rest of the season.  Simple and more to our strengths with the talent we have.

Yeah, I don't understand some of the blocking assignments.  It seems that in the run blocking the interior lineman are supposed to push their guy to the hole and then past it, rather using angles to keep the defenders out of the hole.

[Superman]

I'm also guessing Cherilus will also need either full blown surgery, or at least a scope done on his shoulder.   Wasn't that the injury that ended his season?    So, he'll need some time to heal up and be ready for camp in the spring....

 

Maybe. He might not need surgery on the shoulder; it could have just been a long(er) term rehab, maybe he needed a month or something. I don't know.

 

But the shoulder doesn't really bother me. It's the degenerative knee condition that bothers me. 

[Superman]

But his career long catch in the 2nd Titans game was more than enough proof that he needs to retire.  Being ran down at the 2 after a 15 yard head start...  Time to hang em up Reggie!

 

Have you ever tried running with a groin injury? Even a sore groin?

 

There's a difference between being hurt and being old. It's when your age starts limiting your ability to play through injuries, slowing down your recovery, etc. I think Reggie will come back for another year. It seems like he thinks he was just battling a bunch of injuries. Just my thinking, based on some of his comments.

[Superman]

I don't know, it could be as you state.  To me it appeared he started losing his form during the last few plays of long drives and later in the game and that usually indicates conditioning.

 

Obviously, I don't know. You could be right. I was just wondering why you had settled on it being a conditioning issue.

[Superman]

That's game over IMO given his previous injury history. Would that give us scope (no pun intended) to look at some form of injury settlement?

 

Not really. If he suffered injury during the 2014 season, then we can release him in the 2015 season, even if he's injured. No need for an injury settlement.

[Superman]

Extremely rare.

 

I'll take a "net" over a burner any day. That Cribbs goof up killed us, which I know you agree with, but I'd rather just take possession and let Luck do his thing. The issue I'm noticing, both last Sunday and the previous game vs Denver; Cribbs suffers absolutely horrible downfield blocking. Against Denver, twice the Broncos gunner bled through 2 Colts special teams blockers in a 1 on 2 situation. Cribbs had every reason to believe he would have a shot at a return (not including his face-catch attempt, that was just awful). 

 

We need better special teams, but it goes much deeper than just who's returning the kick/punt. Our special teams coach must be done away with, and much better ancillary special teams players must be put in place. Devon Hester in his prime wouldn't even have a chance the way we block for our returners. 

 

My point is that there's no reason for us to have to make that limited choice. It's the offseason. I don't think a capable and dependable returner is rare at all. I'm not asking for a Devin Hester style returner (he was a FA last offseason, by the way). Just someone who can actually return when the opportunity is there, but can be relied on to secure possession first. 

 

Also, I don't support the idea of replacing the ST coach. I agree that our blocking is awful, but we have the best kicking and coverage units in the league, by the numbers. Guys like Josh Gordy need to come off of the blocking unit; he gets beat downfield way too often. 

[Superman]

He definitely won't sign for 2M and he can get more money elsewhere, as you said.  I was thinking he signed for more than that on his "prove-it" contract.  Perhaps I'm wrong, because I really don't know a whole lot about how much players get paid, but for a 4 yr contract I think 18 Million isn't that terrible with incentives.  My point is that he can produce more, but has only been given a small opportunity at the end of the season.  That doesn't mean he CANT produce but that we haven't been involving him. 

 

I definitely agree WR's are a dime a dozen, that can get the job done, especially with a good QB.  Then we go through another "catch-up" period, where they are the 3rd or 4th WR and people complain about their production though.  I'm not saying he's the total answer, but just like the problems with OL, we do this plug & play crap and it doesn't work!  Why keep the search going when we can put it to rest and focus on the main problems with the LB's S on defense and C RG and RT on offense.

 

Hakeem Nicks: 38 catches, 405 yards, 4 TDs (nine of those catches, and 72 of those yards, came in one meaningless game at the end of the season)

 

You want to give him a multi-year deal for more than $4m/year. I don't get it. And understand, my problem isn't with the contract. I know it's not a cap busting deal. The problem is the player. He had plenty of opportunities to produce, and was virtually non-existent the majority of the year. It's time to move on.

 

And I haven't said anything about another one year guy who we hope can step in and produce a little bit. I think there's a lot of free agents who can play right away -- again, I'd give Cecil Shorts that $4m+, not Nicks, because Shorts is better, and can also return kicks and punts -- but the real answer is drafting someone who will be around for a long time. And there are a dozen guys I could name right now who will probably be picked between 50-120 in the draft, all of whom would be a better and more economical option than Hakeem Nicks. You say keeping Nicks would end the search, but really it wouldn't, because he isn't the answer.

 

Also, this has nothing to do with the other issues that need to be addressed. Yes, we need to improve the line and the backers and the back end of the defense, and add a pass rusher, and we need a running back, and so on. We also need to be better at WR.

[ColtStronger]

Have you ever tried running with a groin injury? Even a sore groin?

 

There's a difference between being hurt and being old. It's when your age starts limiting your ability to play through injuries, slowing down your recovery, etc. I think Reggie will come back for another year. It seems like he thinks he was just battling a bunch of injuries. Just my thinking, based on some of his comments.

Wasn't that the play that Reggie injured his groin?  I may be wrong, but I don't think so.  He wasn't injured before he got ran down, by the defense.  He injured his tricep against the Bengals, which was before that game.  An injured tricep can explain why he had many drops, but has nothing to do with him getting tracked down on the 2 yard line.  Not being able to get separation would be an effect of the groin, but it seemed after the first half of the season he was really showing his age.

[Superman]

That still seems like a pretty tall order.

 

So? That's the job.

 

Lots of good thoughts in that post, by the way. But good teams have 8-10 really good/great players, and 40+ role players. The Pats are Brady, Gronk, Solder, Vollmer, Edelman, Collins, Wilfork, Revis, McCourty, and maybe Chandler Jones. Mayo has been hurt for two years. Everyone else is highly replaceable. Special note for glue guys like Ninkovich, or specialists like Vereen and Hightower. But those guys are all replaceable.

 

We have Luck, Hilton, Castonzo and Davis. Up-and-comers that are arguable, but definitely make plays for us, would include Allen, Fleener, hopefully Moncrief, Newsome, Redding (who is probably gone), and I think that's it. Glue guys and specialists, but no one that is really a consistent playmaker and adds a lot of value. Missing on back to back first rounders really hurts, because that should be two more guys on this list.

 

What I disagree with is how everyone takes issue with the FA class of 2013. Free agency isn't for adding stars or core players. If you get lucky, you'll get someone like that, but that's still probably only going to be a 2 year boost. This is speaking historically, by the way. Free agency is to fill glaring holes with hopefully average to above average players. Without guys like Walden, Toler, RJF, Cherilus and even Landry (at times), going 11-5 these past two years probably doesn't happen. So no, those signings haven't magically made us the best team in the league, but I really don't think they were expected to. 

 

And yes, it sucks that some of them are going completely sour. But historically, that's what happens. That's why Grigson went with mid-level guys and team friendly contracts. We should churn some of them out, and bring in new blood. It would have been nice if we had more overall draft success, then we wouldn't be talking about FA guards or safeties. 

 

I'm thinking 20 guys who were on the playoff roster won't be on the opening day roster, and that's a referendum Grigson's work the past two years. His misses have been HUGE misses, and have cost us a few playmakers, but the rest of the roster is fine. To make up for some of those misses, we have to dip back into free agency for some stopgaps, and this might be the year to trade up in the draft for a really special guy.

[Superman]

Wasn't that the play that Reggie injured his groin?  I may be wrong, but I don't think so.  He wasn't injured before he got ran down, by the defense.  He injured his tricep against the Bengals, which was before that game.  An injured tricep can explain why he had many drops, but has nothing to do with him getting tracked down on the 2 yard line.  Not being able to get separation would be an effect of the groin, but it seemed after the first half of the season he was really showing his age.

 

I think it was. That's my point. It's not like he was just so slow that he couldn't get into the end zone.