Football talk

[Superman]

This place can be a dumpster after a big loss like this. I'm as irritated as anyone else, but I come here to talk football, not put up with melodrama.

 

So this thread is for people who want to talk football. Not for "fire XYZ," not for "this player is trash and needs to go," not for "we're wasting Luck's career"... 

 

My thoughts:

 

1) We're too light in the pants to hold up to New England's power run game, especially when they go double strong. We do a poor job of anchoring the line, the backers get washed out and can't make tackles, and then the back end gets worn down. It starts up front. Until we can control the line and make stops at first contact, we won't be consistent against the run. 

 

2) Our pass defense is terrible in the middle of the field. The Pats played off of that with the crossing patterns, knowing we'd fall back to protect the middle. All that short stuff outside is a function of not being able to cover the middle. We have to get better in the middle. DJackson has his strengths, but pass coverage isn't one of them. Landry really doesn't have any strengths. These first two points add up to the conclusion that we have to get better up the middle of the field. Sadly, that was the problem last season. We were slightly better at times this year, but not really.

 

3) The offensive line is a mess, from center to right tackle. Until the line can bully defenses in the ground game and consistently protect Luck the offense will have its struggles. We have to do something at RG and RT. And I think if there's any coaching spot that requires close scrutiny and probably a change, it's the line coach. 

 

4) Throughout the offseason, we expected the receiving corps to be a strength. Nicks didn't pay off; Reggie got hurt; two of the most promising young guys blew their chances. It's just Hilton and Moncrief. Our receivers combined for two catches in the biggest game of the year. If this is it for Reggie, he sadly goes out with a pitiable whimper. We need to get better and deeper at receiver. I know people are going to raise a fuss when we draft a receiver this year. Please don't. It's a huge need.

 

5) I have been torn on whether to prioritize Fleener or Allen. We need both. Re-sign them. That position is a strength of this team.

 

6) Cribbs has to go. This game shows why we had Whalen returning earlier this year. He got pulled off the job after he started getting careless. We need a responsible weapon at returner.

 

7) We still have a great situation at QB. Luck took some serious steps forward this season, and is clearly the bedrock upon which this team will be built. 

 

8) The corners are another strength. With better safety/ILB play, and a better pass rush, they will be dominant in 2015.

 

9) This team is still on its way up. This result sucks, but again, perspective. If the team attacks hard and gets its weaknesses shored up -- we have cap space, we have a full complement of draft picks, and we have a destination for free agents -- we can climb another rung on the ladder. We had an ideal path to the AFCCG this year. Go hard, and we can be favorites for a spot in this game next season, and be just as strong a candidate as any other AFC team to go to the Super Bowl.

 

GO COLTS!!!

[Track Guy]

3) The offensive line is a mess, from center to right tackle. Until the line can bully defenses in the ground game and consistently protect Luck the offense will have its struggles. We have to do something at RG and RT. And I think if there's any coaching spot that requires close scrutiny and probably a change, it's the line coach. 

 

4) Throughout the offseason, we expected the receiving corps to be a strength. Nicks didn't pay off; Reggie got hurt; two of the most promising young guys blew their chances. It's just Hilton and Moncrief. Our receivers combined for two catches in the biggest game of the year. If this is it for Reggie, he sadly goes out with a pitiable whimper. We need to get better and deeper at receiver. I know people are going to raise a fuss when we draft a receiver this year. Please don't. It's a huge need.

 

I agree with all of these points, but these 2 really interest me especially because the offense was the strength of this team this season and only managed 7 points. The box score says they out rushed us 177 to 83 (including Luck's 18) but it felt like way more than that. I don't know how we fix the O-line this offseason, but it's still a big need. We can't be so one dimensional and expect to play championship caliber teams.

 

Hilton practically disappeared and there didn't really seem to be anyone else getting open. The Colts lead the league in dropped passes this year by a lot. I don't think the level of play this season by our WRs can be considered "good" as a group, which is disappointing because they looked like they could have a really strong year.

[Superman]

I agree with all of these points, but these 2 really interest me especially because the offense was the strength of this team this season and only managed 7 points. The box score says they out rushed us 177 to 83 (including Luck's 18) but it felt like way more than that. I don't know how we fix the O-line this offseason, but it's still a big need. We can't be so one dimensional and expect to play championship caliber teams.

 

Hilton practically disappeared and there didn't really seem to be anyone else getting open. The Colts lead the league in dropped passes this year by a lot. I don't think the level of play this season by our WRs can be considered "good" as a group, which is disappointing because they looked like they could have a really strong year.

 

No one could get open, and while the protection was decent much of the time, at least initially, it wasn't good enough to give the receivers time to shake free. They bracketed Hilton, which is smart, and put Revis on Moncrief, who isn't yet good enough to handle a savvy corner like that (and the one chance he got down the field highlights Moncrief's biggest weakness, which is attacking the ball in the air; if he does that, he either makes the grab, or gets a PI flag, or both). They also dropped LBs across the middle to slow down the TEs and swarm everything underneath.

 

This is the gameplan the Broncos should have played. I don't know if they would have pulled it off like the Pats did, but it would have limited our offense much better. 

 

We have to fix the line. I scoffed at Iupati a few weeks ago, but I'm starting to think that's a good idea. Him or Clint Boling would upgrade the RG spot dramatically and ease some of the pressure to either side.

[Gavin]

This place can be a dumpster after a big loss like this. I'm as irritated as anyone else, but I come here to talk football, not put up with melodrama.

 

So this thread is for people who want to talk football. Not for "fire XYZ," not for "this player is trash and needs to go," not for "we're wasting Luck's career"... 

 

My thoughts:

 

1) We're too light in the pants to hold up to New England's power run game, especially when they go double strong. We do a poor job of anchoring the line, the backers get washed out and can't make tackles, and then the back end gets worn down. It starts up front. Until we can control the line and make stops at first contact, we won't be consistent against the run. 

 

2) Our pass defense is terrible in the middle of the field. The Pats played off of that with the crossing patterns, knowing we'd fall back to protect the middle. All that short stuff outside is a function of not being able to cover the middle. We have to get better in the middle. DJackson has his strengths, but pass coverage isn't one of them. Landry really doesn't have any strengths. These first two points add up to the conclusion that we have to get better up the middle of the field. Sadly, that was the problem last season. We were slightly better at times this year, but not really.

 

3) The offensive line is a mess, from center to right tackle. Until the line can bully defenses in the ground game and consistently protect Luck the offense will have its struggles. We have to do something at RG and RT. And I think if there's any coaching spot that requires close scrutiny and probably a change, it's the line coach. 

 

4) Throughout the offseason, we expected the receiving corps to be a strength. Nicks didn't pay off; Reggie got hurt; two of the most promising young guys blew their chances. It's just Hilton and Moncrief. Our receivers combined for two catches in the biggest game of the year. If this is it for Reggie, he sadly goes out with a pitiable whimper. We need to get better and deeper at receiver. I know people are going to raise a fuss when we draft a receiver this year. Please don't. It's a huge need.

 

5) I have been torn on whether to prioritize Fleener or Allen. We need both. Re-sign them. That position is a strength of this team.

 

6) Cribbs has to go. This game shows why we had Whalen returning earlier this year. He got pulled off the job after he started getting careless. We need a responsible weapon at returner.

 

7) We still have a great situation at QB. Luck took some serious steps forward this season, and is clearly the bedrock upon which this team will be built. 

 

8) The corners are another strength. With better safety/ILB play, and a better pass rush, they will be dominant in 2015.

 

9) This team is still on its way up. This result sucks, but again, perspective. If the team attacks hard and gets its weaknesses shored up -- we have cap space, we have a full complement of draft picks, and we have a destination for free agents -- we can climb another rung on the ladder. We had an ideal path to the AFCCG this year. Go hard, and we can be favorites for a spot in this game next season, and be just as strong a candidate as any other AFC team to go to the Super Bowl.

 

GO COLTS!!!

My thoughts on your points:

 

1.In my opinion its not so much lack of size or girth or strength as much as it is 2 things......I think our D Lineman just lack the stamina and even more then that many lack Gap discipline, Redding crashed down inside thinking he had a read on a run multiple times tonight...As much as he has made plays in the run this year....I think he has been our 2nd be D Lineman against the run.....He also abandons his run fit ALOT, We play great against the run when our DE's provide some push while reading the run but get in massive trouble when someone like Redding just charges up field or crashes down recklessly

 

2.Agreed

 

3.While a large part of it is execution I also think several of the run blocking designs are way more complicated then they have to be, I watched a couple runs today for the Pats where the Guards were uncovered and the run that was called was a simple design for the Guard to stay on his feet and go up and reach the ILB's which leaves a natural running lane....We don't do this......our guards are to often expected to bump or brush the Center or double team the DT/NT leaving an ILB to just come down to make a the tackle while the OLB held contain in case the run bounced outside, Also this happened with Castonzo quite a bit to where he was asked to brush or double the DE leaving the OLB to just come up and make the play

 

4.Agreed!!

 

5.Allen should be the easy choice to me if at some point it comes to that in the future, More versatile

 

6.Agreed

 

7.Agreed of course

 

8.Agreed, I'd like to see a renewed commitment to detail and execution, I think we need to move on from Redding, He is much more a 1 gap penetrator or 4-3 DT, He lacks the discipline to hold up consistently against the run, Love his intensity but I feel its a double edged sword if that makes sense

 

9.Well said

[Dustin]

Why does Davis come of the field in favor of Toler in the redzone?

[Cynjin]

I said it before, in another thread, the Dline and the WRs were very disappointing today. The Dline was getting pushed around, especially the right side and the receivers were not getting open forcing Luck to try to throw into very tight windows. This could be play design or lack of talent or more than likely a combination of both.

[Superman]

Why does Davis come of the field in favor of Toler in the redzone?

 

Don't know. It doesn't happen every time. 

[Dustin]

Don't know. It doesn't happen every time. 

 

Shouldn't happen at all. 

[Superman]

Shouldn't happen at all. 

 

What difference does it make? It's typically a running situation. I only remember it happening once today, and there was no WR on the field.

 

I would obviously rather have Davis on the field than Toler, but schematically, it didn't matter.

[Dustin]

What difference does it make? It's typically a running situation. I only remember it happening once today, and there was no WR on the field.

I would obviously rather have Davis on the field than Toler, but schematically, it didn't matter.

What difference does it make? Is this a serious question? There's literally no reason your best corner should be off the field for someone else in that situation. Let alone for Greg Toler.

And no, Toler matched up against a WR in the game on Davis' side.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Shouldn't happen at all.

So Davis can have his precious 0 td season hold up? Idk

[Happy2BeHere]

This place can be a dumpster after a big loss like this. I'm as irritated as anyone else, but I come here to talk football, not put up with melodrama.

 

So this thread is for people who want to talk football. Not for "fire XYZ," not for "this player is trash and needs to go," not for "we're wasting Luck's career"... 

 

My thoughts:

 

1) We're too light in the pants to hold up to New England's power run game, especially when they go double strong. We do a poor job of anchoring the line, the backers get washed out and can't make tackles, and then the back end gets worn down. It starts up front. Until we can control the line and make stops at first contact, we won't be consistent against the run. 

 

2) Our pass defense is terrible in the middle of the field. The Pats played off of that with the crossing patterns, knowing we'd fall back to protect the middle. All that short stuff outside is a function of not being able to cover the middle. We have to get better in the middle. DJackson has his strengths, but pass coverage isn't one of them. Landry really doesn't have any strengths. These first two points add up to the conclusion that we have to get better up the middle of the field. Sadly, that was the problem last season. We were slightly better at times this year, but not really.

 

3) The offensive line is a mess, from center to right tackle. Until the line can bully defenses in the ground game and consistently protect Luck the offense will have its struggles. We have to do something at RG and RT. And I think if there's any coaching spot that requires close scrutiny and probably a change, it's the line coach. 

 

4) Throughout the offseason, we expected the receiving corps to be a strength. Nicks didn't pay off; Reggie got hurt; two of the most promising young guys blew their chances. It's just Hilton and Moncrief. Our receivers combined for two catches in the biggest game of the year. If this is it for Reggie, he sadly goes out with a pitiable whimper. We need to get better and deeper at receiver. I know people are going to raise a fuss when we draft a receiver this year. Please don't. It's a huge need.

 

5) I have been torn on whether to prioritize Fleener or Allen. We need both. Re-sign them. That position is a strength of this team.

 

6) Cribbs has to go. This game shows why we had Whalen returning earlier this year. He got pulled off the job after he started getting careless. We need a responsible weapon at returner.

 

7) We still have a great situation at QB. Luck took some serious steps forward this season, and is clearly the bedrock upon which this team will be built. 

 

8) The corners are another strength. With better safety/ILB play, and a better pass rush, they will be dominant in 2015.

 

9) This team is still on its way up. This result sucks, but again, perspective. If the team attacks hard and gets its weaknesses shored up -- we have cap space, we have a full complement of draft picks, and we have a destination for free agents -- we can climb another rung on the ladder. We had an ideal path to the AFCCG this year. Go hard, and we can be favorites for a spot in this game next season, and be just as strong a candidate as any other AFC team to go to the Super Bowl.

 

GO COLTS!!!

 

Hey MAN...no way you can post like this. You are supposed to be off your rocker ridiculous and post nonsense and non intelligible posts.

 

But I agree with almost everything here.

 

As far as drafting a receiver I totally disagree here. I think Nicks is still a good receiver and he deserves another year here IMO. I think we need to focus much more on the defensive line and SS/FS and the Offensive Line (1st and foremost).

[Superman]

What difference does it make? Is this a serious question? There's literally no reason your best corner should be off the field for someone else in that situation. Let alone for Greg Toler.

And no, Toler matched up against a WR in the game on Davis' side.

 

It didn't make any difference. They ran the ball. It could have been a conditioning issue, it could have been an injury situation (I doubt the latter, because it happens in other games). I just don't think it matters when it's a running situation and they run the ball. The only time they threw at Toler was when they finally moved Gronk over there to his side.

 

Again, it's not something I would do. And I'm not defending it. It just had no impact on the game.

[ColtsFan1976]

Just curious what Pagano's excuse is going to be.  We got things to fix and we will get them fixed.  Heard that all year long.  Tired of hearing it.  Just do it.

[Superman]

Hey MAN...no way you can post like this. You are supposed to be off your rocker ridiculous and post nonsense and non intelligible posts.

 

But I agree with almost everything here.

 

As far as drafting a receiver I totally disagree here. I think Nicks is still a good receiver and he deserves another year here IMO. I think we need to focus much more on the defensive line and SS/FS and the Offensive Line (1st and foremost).

 

What has Nicks done to deserve another year? I was giving him a little bit of leeway before today, but that drop gave me all I needed to be willing to move on. 

 

I think there are a ton of pro ready receivers who can round out our receiver corps. I'd take one of a dozen rookies over Nicks.

 

And this point that you're making is kind of why I said the whole thing about us drafting a receiver. Yes, we need young defensive playmakers. I'm sure we'll draft some of those. We also need a receiver. Maybe we don't draft one, but I think we should. If we do that and sign a vet -- I'd hold my nose and put up with Nicks, but I think we can do better -- I'm fine.

[Superman]

Just curious what Pagano's excuse is going to be.  We got things to fix and we will get them fixed.  Heard that all year long.  Tired of hearing it.  Just do it.

 

Please stop. If you want to complain about Pagano -- especially nonsense like 'I don't like what he said after we got beat' -- go do it in one of the dozen other threads devoted to that kind of stuff.

[Happy2BeHere]

What has Nicks done to deserve another year? I was giving him a little bit of leeway before today, but that drop gave me all I needed to be willing to move on. 

 

I think there are a ton of pro ready receivers who can round out our receiver corps. I'd take one of a dozen rookies over Nicks.

 

And this point that you're making is kind of why I said the whole thing about us drafting a receiver. Yes, we need young defensive playmakers. I'm sure we'll draft some of those. We also need a receiver. Maybe we don't draft one, but I think we should. If we do that and sign a vet -- I'd hold my nose and put up with Nicks, but I think we can do better -- I'm fine.

 

Sure, if we can get someone for a receiver I am great with that...I am A-OK if it's NICKS or someone else capable. But I still think we should focus this draft on defensive players and offensive line strictly. 

 

If we kept the same receivers we have this year to next including Nicks we are likely to perform just the same as we did this year. But we need offensive line help and defensive depth first and thus why I would focus the entire offseason including the draft to do so.

[theanarchist]

This place can be a dumpster after a big loss like this. I'm as irritated as anyone else, but I come here to talk football, not put up with melodrama.

 

So this thread is for people who want to talk football. Not for "fire XYZ," not for "this player is trash and needs to go," not for "we're wasting Luck's career"... 

 

My thoughts:

 

1) We're too light in the pants to hold up to New England's power run game, especially when they go double strong. We do a poor job of anchoring the line, the backers get washed out and can't make tackles, and then the back end gets worn down. It starts up front. Until we can control the line and make stops at first contact, we won't be consistent against the run. 

 

2) Our pass defense is terrible in the middle of the field. The Pats played off of that with the crossing patterns, knowing we'd fall back to protect the middle. All that short stuff outside is a function of not being able to cover the middle. We have to get better in the middle. DJackson has his strengths, but pass coverage isn't one of them. Landry really doesn't have any strengths. These first two points add up to the conclusion that we have to get better up the middle of the field. Sadly, that was the problem last season. We were slightly better at times this year, but not really.

 

3) The offensive line is a mess, from center to right tackle. Until the line can bully defenses in the ground game and consistently protect Luck the offense will have its struggles. We have to do something at RG and RT. And I think if there's any coaching spot that requires close scrutiny and probably a change, it's the line coach. 

 

4) Throughout the offseason, we expected the receiving corps to be a strength. Nicks didn't pay off; Reggie got hurt; two of the most promising young guys blew their chances. It's just Hilton and Moncrief. Our receivers combined for two catches in the biggest game of the year. If this is it for Reggie, he sadly goes out with a pitiable whimper. We need to get better and deeper at receiver. I know people are going to raise a fuss when we draft a receiver this year. Please don't. It's a huge need.

 

5) I have been torn on whether to prioritize Fleener or Allen. We need both. Re-sign them. That position is a strength of this team.

 

6) Cribbs has to go. This game shows why we had Whalen returning earlier this year. He got pulled off the job after he started getting careless. We need a responsible weapon at returner.

 

7) We still have a great situation at QB. Luck took some serious steps forward this season, and is clearly the bedrock upon which this team will be built. 

 

8) The corners are another strength. With better safety/ILB play, and a better pass rush, they will be dominant in 2015.

 

9) This team is still on its way up. This result sucks, but again, perspective. If the team attacks hard and gets its weaknesses shored up -- we have cap space, we have a full complement of draft picks, and we have a destination for free agents -- we can climb another rung on the ladder. We had an ideal path to the AFCCG this year. Go hard, and we can be favorites for a spot in this game next season, and be just as strong a candidate as any other AFC team to go to the Super Bowl.

 

GO COLTS!!!

I like all of your points. Personally I think the main key to getting over the hump with the patriots is the improvement of the offensive line and a running game. We have to be able to pick up the tough yards. Keep Brady off the field and at the same time use play action to get the receivers open.

[Superman]

I like all of your points. Personally I think the main key to getting over the hump with the patriots is the improvement of the offensive line and a running game. We have to be able to pick up the tough yards. Keep Brady off the field and at the same time use play action to get the receivers open.

 

That would be a huge deal. This team hasn't been able to run the ball consistently since 2007. Buck up and fix it already.

 

However, we still need to get better up the middle on defense.

[theanarchist]

That would be a huge deal. This team hasn't been able to run the ball consistently since 2007. Buck up and fix it already.

 

However, we still need to get better up the middle on defense.

Agree. We need a playmaking safety too. Sorry, Landry isn't living up to his billing. Plenty of pieces that can be upgraded. Keep working hard I guess.

[Mr.Debonair]

Pep got schooled today. He didn't do a good job, creating mismatches or openings for the skill players. Some of that is on the players but he has to be better

[Defjamz26]

This place can be a dumpster after a big loss like this. I'm as irritated as anyone else, but I come here to talk football, not put up with melodrama.

 

So this thread is for people who want to talk football. Not for "fire XYZ," not for "this player is trash and needs to go," not for "we're wasting Luck's career"... 

 

My thoughts:

 

1) We're too light in the pants to hold up to New England's power run game, especially when they go double strong. We do a poor job of anchoring the line, the backers get washed out and can't make tackles, and then the back end gets worn down. It starts up front. Until we can control the line and make stops at first contact, we won't be consistent against the run. 

 

2) Our pass defense is terrible in the middle of the field. The Pats played off of that with the crossing patterns, knowing we'd fall back to protect the middle. All that short stuff outside is a function of not being able to cover the middle. We have to get better in the middle. DJackson has his strengths, but pass coverage isn't one of them. Landry really doesn't have any strengths. These first two points add up to the conclusion that we have to get better up the middle of the field. Sadly, that was the problem last season. We were slightly better at times this year, but not really.

 

3) The offensive line is a mess, from center to right tackle. Until the line can bully defenses in the ground game and consistently protect Luck the offense will have its struggles. We have to do something at RG and RT. And I think if there's any coaching spot that requires close scrutiny and probably a change, it's the line coach. 

 

4) Throughout the offseason, we expected the receiving corps to be a strength. Nicks didn't pay off; Reggie got hurt; two of the most promising young guys blew their chances. It's just Hilton and Moncrief. Our receivers combined for two catches in the biggest game of the year. If this is it for Reggie, he sadly goes out with a pitiable whimper. We need to get better and deeper at receiver. I know people are going to raise a fuss when we draft a receiver this year. Please don't. It's a huge need.

 

5) I have been torn on whether to prioritize Fleener or Allen. We need both. Re-sign them. That position is a strength of this team.

 

6) Cribbs has to go. This game shows why we had Whalen returning earlier this year. He got pulled off the job after he started getting careless. We need a responsible weapon at returner.

 

7) We still have a great situation at QB. Luck took some serious steps forward this season, and is clearly the bedrock upon which this team will be built. 

 

8) The corners are another strength. With better safety/ILB play, and a better pass rush, they will be dominant in 2015.

 

9) This team is still on its way up. This result sucks, but again, perspective. If the team attacks hard and gets its weaknesses shored up -- we have cap space, we have a full complement of draft picks, and we have a destination for free agents -- we can climb another rung on the ladder. We had an ideal path to the AFCCG this year. Go hard, and we can be favorites for a spot in this game next season, and be just as strong a candidate as any other AFC team to go to the Super Bowl.

 

GO COLTS!!!

 

I get what you're saying about the overreaction at times, but this isn't one of those times. Just looking at the 2 bolded posts, the exact overreactions you claim people are having are solutions to those problems

 

No pass coverage in the middle of the field is firstly do to Manusky's scheming, which has been a problem for him before. It's not hard to see why some fans would say fire him, because he clearly didn't make the adjustments he needed. He didn't have to adjust in our other 2 playoff games because we never let the offense get rolling in the first place, and they didn't try anything new.

 

Also the lack of pass coverage in the middle can be attributed to the play of the LB's. And although both have played well at times, neither Freeman nor Jackson are really good. So yes, the argument can be made to "cut this guy because he sucks", at least in the case of Freeman

 

Same with the offensive line. That could be attributed to Joe Gilbert not being able to develop the lineman an come up with interesting blocking schemes. So it's reasonable for people to call for his head.

 

And some of the lineman have no business there, like Lance Louis. Reitz is alright I guess. And who knows about Holmes.

[Superman]

Agree. We need a playmaking safety too. Sorry, Landry isn't living up to his billing. Plenty of pieces that can be upgraded. Keep working hard I guess.

 

Getting better up the middle includes safety, IMO.

[theanarchist]

Getting better up the middle includes safety, IMO.

True. Sadly, we may have seen the last of Reggie Wayne. Correct me if I'm wrong but he did not catch a pass tonight did he?

[Superman]

I get what you're saying about the overreaction at times, but this isn't one of those times. Just looking at the 2 bolded posts, the exact overreactions you claim people are having are solutions to those problems

 

No pass coverage in the middle of the field is firstly do to Manusky's scheming, which has been a problem for him before. It's not hard to see why some fans would say fire him, because he clearly didn't make the adjustments he needed. He didn't have to adjust in our other 2 playoff games because we never let the offense get rolling in the first place, and they didn't try anything new.

 

Also the lack of pass coverage in the middle can be attributed to the play of the LB's. And although both have played well at times, neither Freeman nor Jackson are really good. So yes, the argument can be made to "cut this guy because he sucks", at least in the case of Freeman

 

Same with the offensive line. That could be attributed to Joe Gilbert not being able to develop the lineman an come up with interesting blocking schemes. So it's reasonable for people to call for his head.

 

And some of the lineman have no business there, like Lance Louis. Reitz is alright I guess. And who knows about Holmes.

 

Difference is, people go crazy and say "fire everyone, cut everyone else." It's this way after every loss. Even in the preseason.

 

And I'm not sure the schemes are the reason the middle of the field is open. I think it's mostly personnel. I'm a big Grigson supporter, but he's struck out at adding playmakers in the middle of the field. I give him credit for Freeman, but I think the Jackson signing missed the mark. I'm hesitant to criticize him for Landry, because 90% of fans loved the Landry signing, but it hasn't worked out. So our defense has to sag back to protect the middle of the field, and that creates crossing patterns that we can't stop, especially when we tackle like the wavy armed blow-up doll at used car dealerships. Today, the outside coverage was cheating to the inside and over the top, giving up a ton of space. Without better personnel, there's no much you can do. On top of that, there's no pass rush. 

 

I obviously disagree with you about Freeman.

 

And as I continue to look at your post, I believe you missed my point. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying a player or a coach should be replaced. My problem is with the overdramatic "this guy sucks," "that coach sucks," "this team sucks" junk that this board is littered with after every loss. My post is simply an alternative to that. Doesn't mean we can't be critical of players or coaches or other team personnel. 

[Superman]

True. Sadly, we may have seen the last of Reggie Wayne. Correct me if I'm wrong but he did not catch a pass tonight did he?

 

He did not. 

[theanarchist]

I get what you're saying about the overreaction at times, but this isn't one of those times. Just looking at the 2 bolded posts, the exact overreactions you claim people are having are solutions to those problems

 

No pass coverage in the middle of the field is firstly do to Manusky's scheming, which has been a problem for him before. It's not hard to see why some fans would say fire him, because he clearly didn't make the adjustments he needed. He didn't have to adjust in our other 2 playoff games because we never let the offense get rolling in the first place, and they didn't try anything new.

 

Also the lack of pass coverage in the middle can be attributed to the play of the LB's. And although both have played well at times, neither Freeman nor Jackson are really good. So yes, the argument can be made to "cut this guy because he sucks", at least in the case of Freeman

 

Same with the offensive line. That could be attributed to Joe Gilbert not being able to develop the lineman an come up with interesting blocking schemes. So it's reasonable for people to call for his head.

 

And some of the lineman have no business there, like Lance Louis. Reitz is alright I guess. And who knows about Holmes.

Dick Lebeau is available

[Superman]

Dick Lebeau is available

 

He was an innovator 30 years ago. His stuff is out of date now.

[theanarchist]

Difference is, people go crazy and say "fire everyone, cut everyone else." It's this way after every loss. Even in the preseason.

 

And I'm not sure the schemes are the reason the middle of the field is open. I think it's mostly personnel. I'm a big Grigson supporter, but he's struck out at adding playmakers in the middle of the field. I give him credit for Freeman, but I think the Jackson signing missed the mark. I'm hesitant to criticize him for Landry, because 90% of fans loved the Landry signing, but it hasn't worked out. So our defense has to sag back to protect the middle of the field, and that creates crossing patterns that we can't stop, especially when we tackle like the wavy armed blow-up doll at used car dealerships. Today, the outside coverage was cheating to the inside and over the top, giving up a ton of space. Without better personnel, there's no much you can do. On top of that, there's no pass rush. 

 

I obviously disagree with you about Freeman.

 

And as I continue to look at your post, I believe you missed my point. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying a player or a coach should be replaced. My problem is with the overdramatic "this guy sucks," "that coach sucks," "this team sucks" junk that this board is littered with after every loss. My post is simply an alternative to that. Doesn't mean we can't be critical of players or coaches or other team personnel. 

I'm not saying fire anyone. But I'm sure everyone will get reviewed. From the top down. That's just part of the job. Everyone has to do better.

[Superman]

I'm not saying fire anyone. But I'm sure everyone will get reviewed. From the top down. That's just part of the job. Everyone has to do better.

 

This offseason, the entire roster and staff needs to be on review, IMO. Not because I'm disappointed with where we are, but because we can't afford to plateau if we want to have that sustained success that the higher-ups keep talking about. We have some core players on both sides of the ball that obviously aren't going anywhere, but the other 85% of the roster has to prove itself.

[Malakai432]

This place can be a dumpster after a big loss like this. I'm as irritated as anyone else, but I come here to talk football, not put up with melodrama.

 

So this thread is for people who want to talk football. Not for "fire XYZ," not for "this player is trash and needs to go," not for "we're wasting Luck's career"... 

 

My thoughts:

 

1) We're too light in the pants to hold up to New England's power run game, especially when they go double strong. We do a poor job of anchoring the line, the backers get washed out and can't make tackles, and then the back end gets worn down. It starts up front. Until we can control the line and make stops at first contact, we won't be consistent against the run. 

 

2) Our pass defense is terrible in the middle of the field. The Pats played off of that with the crossing patterns, knowing we'd fall back to protect the middle. All that short stuff outside is a function of not being able to cover the middle. We have to get better in the middle. DJackson has his strengths, but pass coverage isn't one of them. Landry really doesn't have any strengths. These first two points add up to the conclusion that we have to get better up the middle of the field. Sadly, that was the problem last season. We were slightly better at times this year, but not really.

 

3) The offensive line is a mess, from center to right tackle. Until the line can bully defenses in the ground game and consistently protect Luck the offense will have its struggles. We have to do something at RG and RT. And I think if there's any coaching spot that requires close scrutiny and probably a change, it's the line coach. 

 

4) Throughout the offseason, we expected the receiving corps to be a strength. Nicks didn't pay off; Reggie got hurt; two of the most promising young guys blew their chances. It's just Hilton and Moncrief. Our receivers combined for two catches in the biggest game of the year. If this is it for Reggie, he sadly goes out with a pitiable whimper. We need to get better and deeper at receiver. I know people are going to raise a fuss when we draft a receiver this year. Please don't. It's a huge need.

 

5) I have been torn on whether to prioritize Fleener or Allen. We need both. Re-sign them. That position is a strength of this team.

 

6) Cribbs has to go. This game shows why we had Whalen returning earlier this year. He got pulled off the job after he started getting careless. We need a responsible weapon at returner.

 

7) We still have a great situation at QB. Luck took some serious steps forward this season, and is clearly the bedrock upon which this team will be built. 

 

8) The corners are another strength. With better safety/ILB play, and a better pass rush, they will be dominant in 2015.

 

9) This team is still on its way up. This result sucks, but again, perspective. If the team attacks hard and gets its weaknesses shored up -- we have cap space, we have a full complement of draft picks, and we have a destination for free agents -- we can climb another rung on the ladder. We had an ideal path to the AFCCG this year. Go hard, and we can be favorites for a spot in this game next season, and be just as strong a candidate as any other AFC team to go to the Super Bowl.

 

GO COLTS!!!

 

What do you think needs to be done with the DL, it seems like they were supposed to be one of the bigger DLs in the league but yet they seem to not get much push.  Chapman, Jones, Huges are all giants, Francois and Redding can play well but yet it seems like against the Patriots in particular they just can't do much.  They have looked great against some teams but the Patriots in general have dominated them in the trenches, why is this so???  Is it just simply personnel, scheme or a culmination of factors?

[theanarchist]

This offseason, the entire roster and staff needs to be on review, IMO. Not because I'm disappointed with where we are, but because we can't afford to plateau if we want to have that sustained success that the higher-ups keep talking about. We have some core players on both sides of the ball that obviously aren't going anywhere, but the other 85% of the roster has to prove itself.

I hate to beat a dead horse but one of the things that really concern me is that number of times we got blown out this year. 2x by New England, Pittsburgh, Dallas. It just seemed like in the games versus good teams we weren't even close.

[Mr.Debonair]

Luck needs to run the ball. Since the normal run game stinks, he can create one with his legs. I don't why he's so against it. He's smart about sliding too

[Superman]

My thoughts on your points:

 

1.In my opinion its not so much lack of size or girth or strength as much as it is 2 things......I think our D Lineman just lack the stamina and even more then that many lack Gap discipline, Redding crashed down inside thinking he had a read on a run multiple times tonight...As much as he has made plays in the run this year....I think he has been our 2nd be D Lineman against the run.....He also abandons his run fit ALOT, We play great against the run when our DE's provide some push while reading the run but get in massive trouble when someone like Redding just charges up field or crashes down recklessly

 

2.Agreed

 

3.While a large part of it is execution I also think several of the run blocking designs are way more complicated then they have to be, I watched a couple runs today for the Pats where the Guards were uncovered and the run that was called was a simple design for the Guard to stay on his feet and go up and reach the ILB's which leaves a natural running lane....We don't do this......our guards are to often expected to bump or brush the Center or double team the DT/NT leaving an ILB to just come down to make a the tackle while the OLB held contain in case the run bounced outside, Also this happened with Castonzo quite a bit to where he was asked to brush or double the DE leaving the OLB to just come up and make the play

 

4.Agreed!!

 

5.Allen should be the easy choice to me if at some point it comes to that in the future, More versatile

 

6.Agreed

 

7.Agreed of course

 

8.Agreed, I'd like to see a renewed commitment to detail and execution, I think we need to move on from Redding, He is much more a 1 gap penetrator or 4-3 DT, He lacks the discipline to hold up consistently against the run, Love his intensity but I feel its a double edged sword if that makes sense

 

9.Well said

 

1) I'm not saying we need to get bigger. I'm saying we need to play better in order to hold up. I get why that was confusing. We get overpowered when we play the Pats, even moreso with the double strong alignment and personnel. Some schematic changes could be made, also, but I'm not prepared to put my thoughts together on that yet.

 

3) I don't know about the line schemes. There are a lot of different things you can do when you can make a play one on one on the line, like what the Pats did to get to the second level. They bring guys across for wham blocks, but don't wham them, they just fill the spot while the guard leaves his man unblocked and goes to the LB. That doesn't work if the center and the tackles can't handle their one on ones.

 

8) I don't know if your 8 matches my 8. But I do think we can make some adjustments with the linemen. I have wanted more of a hybrid front from the beginning, so I don't mind the gapping. I think that's the better way to create disruption, but it requires more playmaking than we're able to do. With as many tackles as we miss already, it would probably double if we played a more hybrid front with more gapping.

[Superman]

I hate to beat a dead horse but one of the things that really concern me is that number of times we got blown out this year. 2x by New England, Pittsburgh, Dallas. It just seemed like in the games versus good teams we weren't even close.

 

I'm not worried about Pittsburgh and Dallas. The Pittsburgh game was an aberration, IMO. A bunch of mistakes and blown coverages over the top, which is atypical of our secondary.

 

The Dallas game, we had packed it in. The offensive gameplan was neutered, the defense wasn't engaged... I don't like what happened, but I don't think it has any bearing on the quality of the team.

[Superman]

What do you think needs to be done with the DL, it seems like they were supposed to be one of the bigger DLs in the league but yet they seem to not get much push.  Chapman, Jones, Huges are all giants, Francois and Redding can play well but yet it seems like against the Patriots in particular they just can't do much.  They have looked great against some teams but the Patriots in general have dominated them in the trenches, why is this so???  Is it just simply personnel, scheme or a culmination of factors?

 

What's perplexing is that it's really only the Pats who dominate our front. Our guys don't get a lot of push, but they create a wall, and the backers flow to the ball and make plays. But the Pats poke holes in the front in a variety of ways, and then we don't tackle well, and eventually, they wear us down. 

[COLTSFAN12to13]

We have needs at RG and RT. I think Holmes did well in his limited playing time and I can honestly say that Castonzo and Mewhort look like building blocks.

 

We also need better safties. I would draft a safety instead of signing one. 

 

Davis and Toler were great this season. If you don't think so, you are nitpicking. 

 

Along the D-line.. I think its time to upgrade over Chapman and Hughes. 

 

Hopefully Mathis can come back healthy next season. 

[esmort]

What's perplexing is that it's really only the Pats who dominate our front. Our guys don't get a lot of push, but they create a wall, and the backers flow to the ball and make plays. But the Pats poke holes in the front in a variety of ways, and then we don't tackle well, and eventually, they wear us down. 

 

You would think we would have it figured out by now.  I thought for sure our mistake this game was going to be that we game planned so much to stop the run (that has beaten us more than once), and that we would succeed only to have BB count on us taking that approach, and come into the game with a totally new game plan that took advantage of what we did to stop the run. 

 

I guess BB figured if it's not broken don't try to fix it.

[Superman]

We have needs at RG and RT. I think Holmes did well in his limited playing time and I can honestly say that Castonzo and Mewhort look like building blocks.

 

We also need better safties. I would draft a safety instead of signing one. 

 

Davis and Toler were great this season. If you don't think so, you are nitpicking. 

 

Along the D-line.. I think its time to upgrade over Chapman and Hughes. 

 

Hopefully Mathis can come back healthy next season. 

 

I'm not thinking Mathis will be a major factor. If he is, great, but I don't expect it. We need to upgrade at pass rusher as well. 

 

Chapman and Hughes have their positives, but they aren't difference makers. We have none on the defensive line. A group of five or six regular guy that don't require special attention. 

 

Agreed on Davis and Toler, even though Toler had some issues.

 

Agreed on a safety, and I agree we should draft one.

 

And of course the RG and RT, we have to -- HAVE TO -- fix those spots. 

[COLTSFAN12to13]

I'm not thinking Mathis will be a major factor. If he is, great, but I don't expect it. We need to upgrade at pass rusher as well. 

 

Chapman and Hughes have their positives, but they aren't difference makers. We have none on the defensive line. A group of five or six regular guy that don't require special attention. 

 

Agreed on Davis and Toler, even though Toler had some issues.

 

Agreed on a safety, and I agree we should draft one.

 

And of course the RG and RT, we have to -- HAVE TO -- fix those spots. 

 

If the o-line problems go ignored another year i will be seriously *. 

 

Also, Newsome/Mathis/Walden + another guy through draft/fa could be a pretty solid OLB corps.