An ignorant mans opinion on Luck

[amfootball]

You do know Brady had more turnovers in his first 3 (full) years than Luck has had? He's doing fine.

What? Brady had the following INTs in 02, 03, 04 (his first full 3 seasons) - 14, 12, 14 which equals 40.

He had 19 fumbles

 

Luck has had 18, 9, 16 INTs which equals - 43

Fumbles - 22

 

Now would you like to compare post-season turnovers? I would gather not ...

[amfootball]

Never said that . Just keep inciting. What I said is Wayne has been horrible since he tore his triceps and Bradshaw was our best running back. Where is this good offense you talk about ? Wayne is done , Richardson rushed for 519 yards , 3 TDs and 3.3 average per rush. The o line is no doubt terrible. Nicks never gets open... like I said we did have pretty good weapons and now we really don't. SWhy do you think we are 3 point favorites over a Cinn team that we actually match up good against ?

You said, "When Bradshaw was playing and Wayne before the triceps tear .. yes they had "weapons." I took that to mean you felt the season was derailed by injuries.

 

You should be favored over Cincy.

[21isSuperman]

sorry to offend, I won't post again.

No offense taken :thmsup:

 

I've learned from people on these forums that if some "expert analyst" writes a terrible article, it's best not to give them views.  I encourage you to post though, please don't take any of what I said as a discouragement to posting

[ColtsBlueFL]

What? Brady had the following INTs in 02, 03, 04 (his first full 3 seasons) - 14, 12, 14 which equals 40.

He had 19 fumbles

 

Luck has had 18, 9, 16 INTs which equals - 43

Fumbles - 22

 

Now would you like to compare post-season turnovers? I would gather not ...

 

But only 70 touchdown passes, where Luck had 86.

[Everyone]

He's not almost as good. He turned the ball over 22 times this year. Most of them on boneheaded decisions.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[John Dee]

C'mnn now you are smarter than that..     NE was stacked in the early 2000's ...    Indy has nowhere NEAR that type of team.

 

Seriously...  

What? Brady had the following INTs in 02, 03, 04 (his first full 3 seasons) - 14, 12, 14 which equals 40.

He had 19 fumbles

 

Luck has had 18, 9, 16 INTs which equals - 43

Fumbles - 22

 

Now would you like to compare post-season turnovers? I would gather not ...

[amfootball]

C'mnn now you are smarter than that..     NE was stacked in the early 2000's ...    Indy has nowhere NEAR that type of team.

 

Seriously...  

I did not bring up the TO point, Braveheart did. I was just responding to a fallacy that Brady had more turnovers than Luck his first full 3 seasons ...

[John Dee]

Luck is polarizing and all the hate won't end until he wins the BIG prize at the end of the NFL rainbow.  

 

Same way it went for Peyton and Brees.       It's just the way it goes when one is so much better than "most" of the rest.

 

When Indy puts a TEAM around Andrew ...   it will happen.

[John Dee]

Well it was very close...  and I would imagine if pass attempts were taken into consideration...    AL's boo boo's won't look as bad.

 

I did not bring up the TO point, Braveheart did. I was just responding to a fallacy that Brady had more turnovers than Luck his first full 3 seasons ...

[amfootball]

Well it was very close...  and I would imagine if pass attempts were taken into consideration...    AL's boo boo's won't look as bad.

Sure. But the passing rules were different then. Brady's INTs would have been less and his TDs more back then if he had the same rules.

[MJD42]

When you and amfootball are done with the nitpicking Luck vs Chiefs game (which Luck did win!), I'd like to discuss the Brady versus the Bills game in 2003.

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=230907002

Was that a playoff game?

[Synthetic]

Why do you guys turn every thread about one guy into a comparison about Brady?

[John Dee]

OK...  Good Lord people...   

 

passing attempts AL's first 3 seasons..    1813 ..  and still counting

 

passing attempts TB   first 3 STARTING    1541  ...     yes ..     954

 

Luck has HAD to toss the ball around 300 times more than the GREAT Tom Brady did not HAVE TO early in his career.

 

Andrew Luck is being asked to do more faster than ANY QB IN NFL HISTORY.        And for the most part he is producing.

When Indy finally commits to getting him an OL then LOOK OUT.   He has done all this while running for his life most of the time.

 

 

EDIT...   Tommy had 1541 ..   I was slamming shots of rum after the BIG Wisky win against the mighty SEC...

 

That sounds more like it..     Still       he has tossed the ball around 300X more

Sure. But the passing rules were different then. Brady's INTs would have been less and his TDs more back then if he had the same rules.

[amfootball]

OK...  Good Lord people...   

 

passing attempts AL's first 3 seasons..    1813 ..  and still counting

 

passing attempts TB   first 3 STARTING    954  ...     yes ..     954

 

Luck has HAD to toss the ball around 2X as much as the GREAT Tom Brady did not HAVE TO early in his career.

 

Andrew Luck is being asked to do more faster than ANY QB IN NFL HISTORY.        And for the most part he is producing.

When Indy finally commits to getting him an OL then LOOK OUT.   He has done all this while running for his life most of the time.

You will get no argument from me that Luck has been better out of the gate than Brady. I mean he was the first pick overall and Brady was the sixth round pick that no one wanted and sat his first season. Brady won his rings and began blossoming into an elite QB in 04 and beyond and then one of the greatest of all time by 07-10.

[COLTS449]

. What an *. This coming from a mediocre WR like Troy Brown, who was an average wide out and was no better than a guy like Jason Avant. Not a bad player just the definition of AVERAGE or MEDIOCRE!!!!!! LOL at Troy Brown.

[Track Guy]

When I read your first paragraph I think about Bledsoe and how we used to same those same exact things about him. IF he just had a better Oline, better run game, better receivers. And like Luck, he liked to hang on to the ball, get it down field, take hits and force throws. It was who he was. Then we saw Brady step on the field with the same group and move the offense, not take negative plays, take what the defense gave him and lead the team to multiple championships.

 

The knocks against Luck are the same ones he had in college. The question is can he change who he is? I think he is a fine QB but far from elite and I am not sure if that has to do as much with the team around him as you may believe. I am not saying this Colts team is great but his issues are less about the players than his approach to the position IMO.

Do you think the 2013 Colts team, with their porous O-line and soft defense would've gone any further in the playoffs if they had Brady at QB? Honestly, say there was an identical clone of Brady playing QB for the Colts last year instead of Luck, do you really think they would've made it any further?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Was that a playoff game?

 

Sorry, no it wasn't  here's 2 that were though-

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=300110017

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330120017

 

Enjoy.

[Cynjin]

It's hard to argue that Andrew Luck is not the greatest quarterback of all time on a Colts message board

 

Who is arguing that Luck is the greats QB of all time?  It's just that most people are not going to agree with the drivel that you post.

[Cynjin]

Sure. But the passing rules were different then. Brady's INTs would have been less and his TDs more back then if he had the same rules.

 

Now that is just wild speculation, they may have been not would have been.  One could equally say his numbers may have been worse, there is no way of knowing.

[MR. Blueblood]

Sure. But the passing rules were different then. Brady's INTs would have been less and his TDs more back then if he had the same rules.

And this will be the same argument that every guy whose QB was from that "different era" will use.

 

Let me ask you this.  Do you see any correlation to this at all?

 

In the early 2000's (your dynasty era) you had a pretty stout defense, the most clutch kicker in the game, and Brady wasn't asked to carry the team on his back and you won 3 SBs.  After that your defense started lacking and Brady had to pick up the offensive numbers to compensate and you won a lot of games but no SBs.  See the difference...it's not your elite QB winning you a SB it was a complete team effort.

 

Now compare that to Manning who was pretty much the complete opposite until the defense helped carry him to a SB win in 06.

 

Now compare that to Luck who is being asked to do the same.

 

When Brady had a complete team...3 SBs

When Brady has had to put up Madden numbers...0 SBs

[dw49]

You said, "When Bradshaw was playing and Wayne before the triceps tear .. yes they had "weapons." I took that to mean you felt the season was derailed by injuries.

 

You should be favored over Cincy.

 

 

What I said was in response to you saying that the Colts gave Luck a good offense to work with. I pointed out that you really cannot have a "good offense" when you have an O Line that can't run block or pass protect. I then dais that I would concede that they at least gave him some weapons . Then I pointed out that he only had these "weapons" until around week 7 or 8. Whe Bradshaw broke his ankle and Wayne tore his triceps , those that watch the Colts know he no longer has what an intelligent football fan would consider to be good offensive personal . Besides losing their best runner and having only one good WR (hilton) , they even lost the only RB that could be counted on to pick up a blitz. Hopes that explains it.

 

My point with the -3 line vs Cinn is that this Colt team is not very good . We match up very well vs them and thats's a small line.

[dw49]

Oh I know.. but I love making trolls look silly.

 

 

I mean it's one thing having to listen to those people lick Tom Brady's boots all over every part of this forum but it's just pure trolling when they infer that Andrew Luck and Dalton are similar quality NFL QB's. 

[dw49]

And this will be the same argument that every guy whose QB was from that "different era" will use.

 

Let me ask you this.  Do you see any correlation to this at all?

 

In the early 2000's (your dynasty era) you had a pretty stout defense, the most clutch kicker in the game, and Brady wasn't asked to carry the team on his back and you won 3 SBs.  After that your defense started lacking and Brady had to pick up the offensive numbers to compensate and you won a lot of games but no SBs.  See the difference...it's not your elite QB winning you a SB it was a complete team effort.

 

Now compare that to Manning who was pretty much the complete opposite until the defense helped carry him to a SB win in 06.

 

Now compare that to Luck who is being asked to do the same.

 

When Brady had a complete team...3 SBs

When Brady has had to put up Madden numbers...0 SBs

 

 

IMO , John Elway may have been the greatest QB in the history of the game. How many SB's did he win without a good running game. This Colt team actually rushed 10 times for a yard vs an average Dallas defense.

[amfootball]

And this will be the same argument that every guy whose QB was from that "different era" will use.

 

Let me ask you this.  Do you see any correlation to this at all?

 

In the early 2000's (your dynasty era) you had a pretty stout defense, the most clutch kicker in the game, and Brady wasn't asked to carry the team on his back and you won 3 SBs.  After that your defense started lacking and Brady had to pick up the offensive numbers to compensate and you won a lot of games but no SBs.  See the difference...it's not your elite QB winning you a SB it was a complete team effort.

 

Now compare that to Manning who was pretty much the complete opposite until the defense helped carry him to a SB win in 06.

 

Now compare that to Luck who is being asked to do the same.

 

When Brady had a complete team...3 SBs

When Brady has had to put up Madden numbers...0 SBs

Who is talking Super Bowls? I was just discussing QB play.

[amfootball]

Now that is just wild speculation, they may have been not would have been.  One could equally say his numbers may have been worse, there is no way of knowing.

Yes should have said "IMO."

[MJD42]

Sorry, no it wasn't  here's 2 that were though-

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=300110017

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330120017

 

Enjoy.

So it only took you 9 years after Brady's NFL career began to find a loss to compare with Luck?

[MR. Blueblood]

Who is talking Super Bowls? I was just discussing QB play.

it goes in conjunction with the "Elite QBs carry their imperfect teams" post you had earlier.

 

Just how far are these elite QBs supposed to carry their imperfect teams? 

[amfootball]

it goes in conjunction with the "Elite QBs carry their imperfect teams" post you had earlier.

 

Just how far are these elite QBs supposed to carry their imperfect teams? 

There is no such thing as the perfect team in the cap/FA era. QBs are asked to do more because they can cover the most for the weaknesses in personnel.

[dw49]

So it only took you 9 years after Brady's NFL career began to find a loss to compare with Luck?

 

 

No it only took him about 10 minutes. 

 

You people are so ridiculous. Luck in his second year had a bad game vs NE on the road in a playoff loss. Played with two practice squad WR's that couldn't even run a route tree. Besides that NE scored about on every possession. For that he's no good and no better than Andy Dalton. That's just the most ridiculous , unfounded , foolish stuff I've ever read. One guy is 40 TDs and 16 ints , while the other is 19 and 17. Ignorant comparison and you people are just trolling .

[dw49]

There is no such thing as the perfect team in the cap/FA era. QBs are asked to do more because they can cover the most for the weaknesses in personnel.

 

 

You still trolling around ?

[amfootball]

You still trolling around ?

Just a discussion. And a good one IMO.

 

Would these make you feel better?

[MJD42]

No it only took him about 10 minutes. 

 

You people are so ridiculous. Luck in his second year had a bad game vs NE on the road in a playoff loss. Played with two practice squad WR's that couldn't even run a route tree. Besides that NE scored about on every possession. For that he's no good and no better than Andy Dalton. That's just the most ridiculous , unfounded , foolish stuff I've ever read. One guy is 40 TDs and 16 ints , while the other is 19 and 17. Ignorant comparison and you people are just trolling .

Well, it is a holiday and all. Have to fill the time with something.  ;)

[dw49]

Just a discussion. And a good one IMO.

 

Would these make you feel better?

 

Troll

[dw49]

Well, it is a holiday and all. Have to fill the time with something.  ;)

 

 

 

You two are just throwing crap around until you see an opportunity to bring Brady into the discussion. The lady Pat fan is an expert at this. She'll say Luck is good but .. bla bla bla .. then sneak Brady in.  This is an absurd conversation . Andrew Luck is heads and shoulders better than Andy Dalton .

Look people ... none of the good posters here say that Luck had a better year than Brady. You guys bring him into about every possible thread in the NFL forum. We really don't need to be Tom Bradied to death in this part of the forum too. 

[Malakai432]

Andrew Luck is a much better player as a QB than Troy could ever fathom as a reciever, TB sucked, lol.....

[Malakai432]

Elite QBs carry their imperfect teams ...

Luck practically does carry not only an imperfect team, but a pretty bad overall team. Fortunately he has weapons to throw to.

[Two_pound]

The thing I love about "football expert" pat fans(and they ALL think they are experts),is they talk about how great their team is and coaches, players, everyone top to bottom awesome. All about the rings!!!! Well in the last 10 seasons who has more rings Colts or pats? Another thing about that great coach, Belichick. Jim Mora never won a playoff game(0-4),but he was smart enough to start Manning from day one. They cut Jim Harbaugh who had led the Colts to 2 playoff appearences in 3 years previous to start Manning in 98 as a rookie. How could that genious Belichick look at Brady for over 2 training camps one full season and part of another and not start him????????? And he only did start him when Bledsoe got hurt. Some one explain that to me. Your pat team is a facade, end of discussion!

[rabidfan77]

I think his points are valid when you look at production in the post-season and in big games. Many people are still waiting for Luck to have that big breakthrough win vs a top tier team in a big game and it has not happened yet. Same for Dalton. I do think if the Colts win this game and get to play Denver that Luck has a great chance to get that signature win over Manning given the way the he is playing right now.

Never thought I'd agree with a Pats fan on the Colts fan forum ...but your definitely right...In my colts fan delusional scenario for the playoffs.

 

Indy beats Cin

Ravens beat Pit

Indy gets Denver and wins

Ravens beat Pats

Indy beats Ravens at home

Indy wins the AFC championship

And then it stops because Dal (run game), Seahawks (Lynch), or Packers (Rodgers)

is waiting for us in the SB for a 80% chance loss

 

But like I said Delusions ...Indy should beat Cin (becuz of Dalton) and then who knows, but Pit's Bell injury inspired my delusions becuz Ravens could beat Pit if Pit doesn't have Bell on the field (that man is a monster all-round rb). And Peyton is playing hurt or old (maybe the effects of the neck surgeries?), but whatever it is this Peyton looks beatable. Belichick scares me because of the two 42 pt dumps he laid on Indy and both times while not really letting Brady throw, but a lot of things have to play out for us to find out this yr.

 

As far as NE I think Pit, Bal, and even Den would all have chances to beat NE although with a defense in NE now it would be hard to do...Rodgers barely did it and had to use his 3 and 4th targets to do it becuz the mad scientist is back    

[ColtsBlueFL]

So it only took you 9 years after Brady's NFL career began to find a loss to compare with Luck?

 

Didn't Brady start off 10 - 0 in playoffs?  What is he since then, 8 - 8? I thought amfootball earlier said elite QB's are to carry their imperfect team.  According to that definition, maybe Brady isn't so elite anymore, Been declining since 2005, correct?  Brady's first playoff loss in 2005 wasn't so great either.-

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200601140den.htm

 

The point is, every QB that has ever played has stinkers on their resume.  For an opposing teams fans to come here and denigrate a player based on a game or two is preposterous.  Luck could be 2-2 ( and .500 ) in playoffs with a win Sunday, and his career is just beginning.  He has years to improve his record.  Brady started hot and has been .500 since with no SB victories. But Joe Flacco also has a great playoff record too ( 9 - 4 ).  I'll still take my chances with Andrew Luck.

[dw49]

Didn't Brady start off 10 - 0 in playoffs?  What is he since then, 8 - 8? I thought amfootball earlier said elite QB's are to carry their imperfect team.  According to that definition, maybe Brady isn't so elite anymore, Been declining since 2005, correct?  Brady's first playoff loss in 2005 wasn't so great either.-

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200601140den.htm

 

The point is, every QB that has ever played has stinkers on their resume.  For an opposing teams fans to come here and denigrate a player based on a game or two is preposterous.  Luck could be 2-2 ( and .500 ) in playoffs with a win Sunday, and his career is just beginning.  He has years to improve his record.  Brady started hot and has been .500 since with no SB victories. But Joe Flacco also has a great playoff record too ( 9 - 4 ).  I'll still take my chances with Andrew Luck.

 

 

And besides the only "stinker" he had in the playoffs was to the Pats. He was fine vs Balt as a rookie. Colts may have even won that game if not for all the drops. The second was the huge comeback vs KC. So this is all about throwing picks vs a Bill Bellichick  D when they ran for around 240 yards and 4-5 TDS. Plus we had Hilton Brazil and Whalen as the starting WR's . I'm glad you put these guys in their place as I too have a big problem with Pat fans moving into this thread and insulting our QB like that. As I said . it's pretty much trolling to compare Luck and Dalton. At least MJD pretty much admits he was bored . Anyway your post was nice , short , to the point and dominated them.