Polian regrets not drafting Andy Dalton

[Valpo2004]

Honestly playoff success if often overrated.  First of all it's a small sample size of games. . . but also a good QB can get you into the playoffs. . . but here is the thing. .  . Once you get to the playoffs the team around that QB really starts to matter a lot.  Nearly every QB in the playoffs is good, so you need a good team that can give your QB an edge.  A defense, a run game, good protection, good receivers.

[akcolt]

What are you talking about? Not sure who you think you are telling me to get with a program there hot rod. QB's often get to much of the blame and credit the way it is.

[Valpo2004]

What are you talking about? Not sure who you think you are telling me to get with a program there hot rod. QB's often get to much of the blame and credit the way it is.

 

 

[The Peytonator]

Dalton would have went 3-13 AT BEST, Polian would still have been fired, we wouldn't have Luck, instead we'd have drafted one of the following studs; Trent Richardson, Matt Kalil, Justin Blackmon, Morris Claiborne. 

 

I'll take the one Kerry Collins year followed by the next 15 years playing in January.....as would ALL football fans.

[akcolt]

[akcolt]

At least school starts soon and the adults will have time to talk

[Gavin]

I would have liked Dalton at QB but I love having Luck as QB, Both two of the best QB's in the league right now, I'd actually like it if there could be a rivalry between the two teams, Just to bad they are not in our division, It would make for very interesting times

[Superman]

At least school starts soon and the adults will have time to talk

 

You do realize that you missed his point, right? 

[azcolt]

There's a story on nfl.com that talks about how Polian almost drafted Dalton in 2011 when Peyton was going through his neck issues...but Peyton's record of never missing regular season saved us from the purgatory of 10-12 years of Dalton hahaha...THANK GOD he didn't draft dalton we'd be stuck with a medicore qb and GM (chris polian) for a long time...so glad the football gods smiled on our franchise that day and led us to Andrew Luck, Chuck Pagano, and Ryan Grigson hahaha

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000377186/article/bill-polian-wishes-he-drafted-andy-dalton-in-2011

The gods certainly smiled when Colts were able to get Luck but without getting him, I'm doubtful that you'd be singing the praises of Pagano and Grigson. Without Luck this team would be terrible.

[Buck Showalter]

Dalton has helped take Cincy to 3 consecutive playoff appearances for the first time in franchise history.

just saying...

[akcolt]

You do realize that you missed his point, right?

[akcolt]

Very possible down to my phone today if I did I apologize

[ColtsLegacy]

I stopped reading after you said glennon

 

... What Superman said...

 

LOL, you still got past 17 QBs without a real argument.

 

[ColtsLegacy]

Hard to argue with most of that list. JMO, I disagree with the ones I crossed out. And I'm torn on McCown. Even in that case, Dalton would be around 19th on the list.

 

Yeah, you can certainly argue some of the lower tier guys on the list. I am just trying to show that the notion that Dalton may not be a top 20 QB isn't as crazy as it might sound. As you said, it's hard to argue much of the list.

[Old Colt]

I'm sure Polian does. He would do anything to go back and try and ruin the Colts.

Andy Dalton isn't awful.. Just not great and can't play in playoffs

In Luck we trust!

Who prevented him from drafting Dalton.... Irsay.... someone else.... whoever did should have a their name on the Ring of Fame... saved the franchise!

[Jiggy]

That's what happens when you have no run game, especially in the playoffs....Bengals literally ran 481 times last year and only got 3.6pc out of it, The QB is asked to put more of a load on his shoulders, Manning could only get us so far with no run game, Same goes for Luck, Besides that the Bengals defense was nowhere in sight in the playoffs

Fair point

[rabidfan77]

I agree with you from the standpoint of age & that 18 is not invincible as we all know rabidfan77, but the issue was the pathetic quality of our backup QB situation in INDY when Manning went down & even in Denver now QB Brock Osweiler as a game manager could still win some games with the o-line & defense if god forbid something bad happened to Peyton again. 

 

I'm still dumbfounded that Painter landed in NY with Eli Manning. Talk about a head scratcher man. I'm still speechless over that one actually. He's still listed on their team roster. I just checked out of curiosity. 

 

Okay, to be fair, QB Kerry Collins sucked big time too in INDY as well. When we picked him up, I fell into the trap of remembering his NY Giants days & Carolina days when he was actually decent at slinging the ball. Boy, was I wrong on that one. 

Kerry was old and the only reason he got signed was Polian waited so late to admit Painter was a dud all serviceable free agent qbs were already gone...Kerry came in late August right before the season started he didn't know the offense. Reggie came out and said as much before Polian clamped down on players speaking about the situation to the media. I think the 2011 season was more of a result of how polian built the team...high powered offense to build a lead, and a small fast defense that could stop any comeback attempts...that's why Indy lost so many games against teams that ran the ball because outside of 2005-2006 they never had the personnel to stop the run. The chargers beat us several times in the playoffs by keeping peyton on the bench it became the formula for beating Indy. Irsay admitted as much last year with his "star wars numbers comment" the press took it as a shot at peyton but Irsay only told the truth our defense and special teams was borderline horrible most of peyton's career in Indy.

 

I was sad to watch peyton leave but getting Pagano and Grigson (not so much Luck) was the only positive because we finally had a coaching staff that wanted to play an aggressive scheme (not disrespect to dungy, but I hated the 4-3 because he didn't have the same players he had in tampa he couldn't have the same level of defensive success) and a front office that is active in free-agency. I never use to pay attention to free agency because polian avoided it like it was the plague , but grigson has colts fan wondering who we'll get to make the team better every year. I do think as we get closer to having to resign the 2012 draft class he'll slow down, but the fact that he's willing to admit mistakes (Stale and McGlynn) is a huge improvement over polian.

 

Luck only put me to ease in the sense that the drop off from peyton's level of play wasn't massive like in 2011... by the 3rd 2011 preseason game I became a Luck fan and fell in love with his play by the end of season because he carried the team like peyton use to do. The advantage Luck has is his coach and GM want a run game and a great defense...two thing peyton never had in Indy.   

[rabidfan77]

I doubt it would be of his concern or even Colts fans for that matter. Hypothetically speaking 1998-2017 is 20 seasons as the Colts GM, and Polian would be 75 years old. That's a stinkin' long time for one gig. Polian obviously feels like his time Colts was cut short. I guarantee he still wish he was the GM of the Colts with his players still.

 

And as for 2017 and beyond, no Colts fan would be thinking that way. Most were happy with the Colts regime entering 2011. It was just the dismal season and 13 losses in a row that sank the ship. With potentially Andy Dalton as the quarterback the Colts might win 5/6 games. Thus looking forward to the 2012 season with Peyton returning. Not the stud college quarterback coming out of college and the next 15/16 years.

 

So in short no Colts fan would be think about 2017 and beyond. The thought would most likely be, wow we got this kid who played decent in the absence of Peyton. He could turn out to be the next Aaron Rodgers when Peyton hangs it up. Because no one would know much about Dalton other than stepping in during the absence of Peyton.

Of course I'm speaking from hindsight, we know dalton isn't going to great maybe good but not great. And some colts fans (like myself) had a huge problem with how polian built the team high powered offense that could get a lead, small and fast defense that could stop passing comeback attempt, BUT could not stop the run and special teams was garbage most years both in coverage and returns...that polian philosophy is what cost him his job not the 2-14 year alone...Irsay would have given him the benefit of the doubt because peyton was out if the team wasn't built so poorly...peyton's absence finally exposed the below-average team polian built over the years.

[rabidfan77]

The gods certainly smiled when Colts were able to get Luck but without getting him, I'm doubtful that you'd be singing the praises of Pagano and Grigson. Without Luck this team would be terrible.

Of course, Luck makes the key difference on this team just like peyton did, but your forgetting that Indy has been rebuilding the last 2 years teams don't go from 2-14 to 11-5 (2 years in a row) very often Luck helps this team over-achieve. But as we got away from the cap penalties of 2012 (i think nearly 40 mil in dead money) Grigson and Pagano have been able to build the team they want. Most colts fans (on this forum) are very inpatient an expect results immediately in reality this team should have not won more than 5 games the first year 9 games the second year. But Luck changed all of that and I'm sure even if Luck wasn't a colt Pagano and Grigson would still have this team in the right direction it would just take them longer to do it.  

[Coffeedrinker]

Yes.

In no particular order here's who I believe are better QBs than Dalton:

1) Peyton

2) Rodgers

3) Brady

4) Brees

5) Luck

6) Rivers

7) Roethlisberger

8) Romo

9) Cam

10) Kaep

11) Wilson

12) Cutler

13) Foles

14) Stafford

15) Ryan

16) Eli

17) Flacco

18) Glennon

19) Tannehill

20) Alex Smith

21) Josh McCown

22) RG3

23) Bradford

I like how things ended up but if the Colts had drafted Dalton they would have been an 8-8 team. Dalton is not as bad as many on this forum are saying.

[Ryan Pelley]

I don't think Dalton is as awful as people say he is, but he's so inconsistent. Either he's on fire or he looks pretty dang pathetic (as he has in all three of his playoff games). I think his criticism is warranted though. All quarterbacks are judged by their playoff performances, where Dalton has failed to deliver. I think they'll get over that hump this year though. I'd put him in the 15 to 20 range on a list of best QBs behind: Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, Newton, Rivers, Cutler, Stafford, Wilson, Ryan, Wilson, Smith, Flacco, Eli and maybe McCown.

[Fx Stryker]

Of course I'm speaking from hindsight, we know dalton isn't going to great maybe good but not great. And some colts fans (like myself) had a huge problem with how polian built the team high powered offense that could get a lead, small and fast defense that could stop passing comeback attempt, BUT could not stop the run and special teams was garbage most years both in coverage and returns...that polian philosophy is what cost him his job not the 2-14 year alone...Irsay would have given him the benefit of the doubt because peyton was out if the team wasn't built so poorly...peyton's absence finally exposed the below-average team polian built over the years.

 

Yes, hindsight is a nice thing we all poses now.And yes there are fans who disagreed with Polian's way of building things, but certainly no one was calling for him to be fired. Also the defense you are describing is Duny's philosophy not Polian's. Many forget Bill didn't want to hire Tony, but Irsay forced the situation. The Colts weren't bend don't break went Vic Fangio was the DC.

 

What ultimately cost Polian his job was the Colts continued success. We won 10 games a season in 11 of 13 years. It's hard to continue success when you are basically missing out on the first round in the draft. There isn't that much of a gap between the bottom round 1 talent and beginning of round 2. Colts were constantly drafting around spot 26. Then if what most people say is true most of the 2008-2010 drafting was done by Chris not Bill. And those years were bad, B-A-D.

 

But Bill took back over in 2011, and he almost pulled the trigger on Dalton. And while yes if the Colts had better success in the drafts years prior they could have been better. But all of those picks would have to work out collectively while Dalton would have been a single pick that could have saved the 2011 season. Maybe not a winning season, and maybe only 7-9, but that isn't a 2-14 season. And without the 2-14 season Polian is the Colts GM today. That's why he regrets it, and he has every right to.

[Superman]

Yes, hindsight is a nice thing we all poses now.And yes there are fans who disagreed with Polian's way of building things, but certainly no one was calling for him to be fired. Also the defense you are describing is Duny's philosophy not Polian's. Many forget Bill didn't want to hire Tony, but Irsay forced the situation. The Colts weren't bend don't break went Vic Fangio was the DC.

 

What ultimately cost Polian his job was the Colts continued success. We won 10 games a season in 11 of 13 years. It's hard to continue success when you are basically missing out on the first round in the draft. There isn't that much of a gap between the bottom round 1 talent and beginning of round 2. Colts were constantly drafting around spot 26. Then if what most people say is true most of the 2008-2010 drafting was done by Chris not Bill. And those years were bad, B-A-D.

 

But Bill took back over in 2011, and he almost pulled the trigger on Dalton. And while yes if the Colts had better success in the drafts years prior they could have been better. But all of those picks would have to work out collectively while Dalton would have been a single pick that could have saved the 2011 season. Maybe not a winning season, and maybe only 7-9, but that isn't a 2-14 season. And without the 2-14 season Polian is the Colts GM today. That's why he regrets it, and he has every right to.

 

A lot of people were calling for Polian to be fired, well before 2011. I wasn't one of them; I actually defended him more than most. But they were very vocal.

[ColtsLegacy]

I like how things ended up but if the Colts had drafted Dalton they would have been an 8-8 team. Dalton is not as bad as many on this forum are saying.

 

8-8 in 2011 with a rookie Andrew Dalton? I highly, highly doubt it.

[Colts_Fan12]

Thank god that didn't happen lol

[Gavin]

8-8 in 2011 with a rookie Andrew Dalton? I highly, highly doubt it.

you have Josh Mccown as better then Andy Dalton....along with 22 other QB's ahead of Dalton so of course you would doubt it despite the obvious that he is pretty goo, also ya don't seem to take into account he put up those numbers last year and led his team to the playoffs with no run game and his defense being nowhere in sight when they actually got to the playoffs

[azcolt]

Of course, Luck makes the key difference on this team just like peyton did, but your forgetting that Indy has been rebuilding the last 2 years teams don't go from 2-14 to 11-5 (2 years in a row) very often Luck helps this team over-achieve. But as we got away from the cap penalties of 2012 (i think nearly 40 mil in dead money) Grigson and Pagano have been able to build the team they want. Most colts fans (on this forum) are very inpatient an expect results immediately in reality this team should have not won more than 5 games the first year 9 games the second year. But Luck changed all of that and I'm sure even if Luck wasn't a colt Pagano and Grigson would still have this team in the right direction it would just take them longer to do it.

We'll have to disagree. We have a poor defense, a poor offensive line and a starting running back who was probably the Colt's worst trade in the past 20 years. The receivers have talent but much of the hope with that group rests on Reggie's aging shoulders. Without Luck we'd be a 2-14 team again and both Grigson and Pagano would be on the hot seat.

[ColtsLegacy]

you have Josh Mccown as better then Andy Dalton....along with 22 other QB's ahead of Dalton so of course you would doubt it despite the obvious that he is pretty goo, also ya don't seem to take into account he put up those numbers last year and led his team to the playoffs with no run game and his defense being nowhere in sight when they actually got to the playoffs

 

Yes, I have Josh McCown as better and, yes, it's questionable if he's better or not, but I really don't think most of the list is all that questionable. Regardless, I would think the vast majority of the world would doubt Dalton could have won 8 games with the 2011 Colts. He would not have been a +6 win QB for that Colts team as a rookie.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

That there's quite an underwhelming list.

I admire the Bengals OL, and D, but their skill positions are pretty eh, aside from AJ, and perhaps Bernard (coming up).

Yes, that includes Dalton, but he's not blessed with fantastic tools, and making them worse.

JMO, of course.

Marvin Jones had 10 TDs last year I believe. Not a ton of yards, but that's a lot of scores considering AJ Green's also on the field.

[Johnny Bui]

I thank you Polian for not drafting "Red Head McGee.

 

Comparison:

Bengals has one of the best if not the best overall team in the NFL

Colts has one of the worst team in the NFL.

QB Playoff wins: Luck 1 - Dalton - 0

[Steamboat_Shaun]

It makes me chuckle sometimes when people bust Dalton's chops about not winning a playoff game after 3 years. It took Manning 6 years, but I don't remember anyone on this forum calling for his head. And Dalton hasn't gotten beat 41-0 like Manning did against Herm Edwards Jets.

[rabidfan77]

Yes, hindsight is a nice thing we all poses now.And yes there are fans who disagreed with Polian's way of building things, but certainly no one was calling for him to be fired. Also the defense you are describing is Duny's philosophy not Polian's. Many forget Bill didn't want to hire Tony, but Irsay forced the situation. The Colts weren't bend don't break went Vic Fangio was the DC.

 

What ultimately cost Polian his job was the Colts continued success. We won 10 games a season in 11 of 13 years. It's hard to continue success when you are basically missing out on the first round in the draft. There isn't that much of a gap between the bottom round 1 talent and beginning of round 2. Colts were constantly drafting around spot 26. Then if what most people say is true most of the 2008-2010 drafting was done by Chris not Bill. And those years were bad, B-A-D.

 

But Bill took back over in 2011, and he almost pulled the trigger on Dalton. And while yes if the Colts had better success in the drafts years prior they could have been better. But all of those picks would have to work out collectively while Dalton would have been a single pick that could have saved the 2011 season. Maybe not a winning season, and maybe only 7-9, but that isn't a 2-14 season. And without the 2-14 season Polian is the Colts GM today. That's why he regrets it, and he has every right to.

Then explain the Patriots, Ravens (pre-Ray Lewis retirement), 49ers, and Packers all picked at the bottom of the first half over multiple years, yet still fielded overall good teams (yes I know the pats def has sucked for about 3 years). You can pick at the bottom and still field a good team, Chris Polian's impending promotion is what really cost a soon to retire Bill his job and the lack of overall depth on the Colts. The lack of depth falls squarely at Bill's feet the 2011 team was god-awful and only 2 years removed from going to the superbowl. Peyton's absence exposed a terrible team and Irsay choose to stop ignoring it, while fans weren't calling for Bill's job that is more a product of Peyton's play (after 2003 i think) Indy didn't lose more than 5 games in a year so on paper Indy was good. But on the field everyone saw the holes on this team even if they ignored them.

 

And of course without the 2-14 season Polian would probably be completing his transition of power over to Chris and about to go into retirement after this year. But thankfully he didn't draft Dalton so we don't have to find out how terrible of a GM Chris polian would've been 

[rabidfan77]

We'll have to disagree. We have a poor defense, a poor offensive line and a starting running back who was probably the Colt's worst trade in the past 20 years. The receivers have talent but much of the hope with that group rests on Reggie's aging shoulders. Without Luck we'd be a 2-14 team again and both Grigson and Pagano would be on the hot seat.

Your right we'll have to disagree ...if you read what I wrote I said Indy would be worst without Luck, but still on the right path...to expect a Superbowl caliber team 3 years after going 2-14 you clearly made my point about impatient colts fans ...it's crazy to put a coach and GM going into JUST their 3 year on the hot seat when they inherited a 2-14 team rebuilding takes years not just 1 year . But lucky that's a moot point because of Andrew and we can expect to at least get closer to a Superbowl this year. Go COLTS

[ColtsLegacy]

It makes me chuckle sometimes when people bust Dalton's chops about not winning a playoff game after 3 years. It took Manning 6 years, but I don't remember anyone on this forum calling for his head. And Dalton hasn't gotten beat 41-0 like Manning did against Herm Edwards Jets.

 

A blind fool can see the difference between young Peyton and Dalton. Terrible comparison.

 

Next we'll compare Picasso's art to a 4 year old's doodles on a TGI Friday's children's menu.

[mycou1992]

Andy Dalton = slightly upgraded Mark Sanchez

[Gavin]

Yes, I have Josh McCown as better and, yes, it's questionable if he's better or not, but I really don't think most of the list is all that questionable. Regardless, I would think the vast majority of the world would doubt Dalton could have won 8 games with the 2011 Colts. He would not have been a +6 win QB for that Colts team as a rookie.

Cam

Kaep

Foles

Flacco

Glennon

Tannehill

Griffin III

Alex Smith

Sam Bradford

Josh Mccown (This one just cracks me up to be honest)

 

All of the above no

[austriancolt]

Polian is a *. The reasons why he got fired: 1. Nepotism is never a good idea 2. The whole system was all about Manning and we lacked talent all over the field

[Coffeedrinker]

8-8 in 2011 with a rookie Andrew Dalton? I highly, highly doubt it.

Oh well then.  If you highly, highly doubt it then I guess you are correct.  If you just highly doubted it, I'd probably argue discuss it with you.

 

After that season I had several discussions with people on this board and it is my belief that if the Colts had average to good QB play they would have won 3 or 4 more games.  Dalton, even as a rookie, would be average to good.

[ColtsLegacy]

Oh well then. If you highly, highly doubt it then I guess you are correct. If you just highly doubted it, I'd probably argue discuss it with you.

After that season I had several discussions with people on this board and it is my belief that if the Colts had average to good QB play they would have won 3 or 4 more games. Dalton, even as a rookie, would be average to good.

So, you think "average to good QB play" could have got us 3 or 4 more wins and you think Andy Dalton would have been "average to good" for us in 2011, as a rookie, yet he equals +6 wins. Roger that.

[ColtsLegacy]

Cam

Kaep

Foles

Flacco

Glennon

Tannehill

Griffin III

Alex Smith

Sam Bradford

Josh Mccown (This one just cracks me up to be honest)

All of the above no

Laugh at McCown all you want. His half season last year was better football than Dalton has ever played, maybe it was a fluke or his supporting cast, but it was still more impressive than anything I've seen from Dalton.

You can argue he's better than Bradford, Glennon, and McCown for sure but the rest of the list feels like your trying really hard just to list enough to prove me wrong.