Oline review

[a06cc]

Bleacher Report did a great mock up about the offensive line last season. They also discussed how we'd improved in 2014. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2077433-how-improved-will-the-indianapolis-colts-offensive-line-be-in-2014

Let's discuss!

[lollygagger8]

Bleacher Report did a great mock up about the offensive line last season. They also discussed how we'd improved in 2014. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2077433-how-improved-will-the-indianapolis-colts-offensive-line-be-in-2014

Let's discuss!

 

I didn't read it, but I'm guessing it says something like.....

 

The Indianapolis Colts O-Line got monumentally better by getting rid of Samson Satele and Mike McGlynn. 

 

The End. 

[a06cc]

I didn't read it, but I'm guessing it says something like.....

The Indianapolis Colts O-Line got monumentally better by getting rid of Samson Satele and Mike McGlynn.

The End.

Sure does lol However it does talk about our tackles and the pressures they've given up in pass protection. Dwayne Allen being missed have something to do with it?

[Bravo]

I think out tackles held their own last year.... Poorly some games? Yes!! But when you have have interior o line believe it or not it affects the tackle posistions also..... If we get good guard play our tackles should improve with them as well

[BrentMc11]

I didn't read it, but I'm guessing it says something like.....

 

The Indianapolis Colts O-Line got monumentally better by getting rid of Samson Satele and Mike McGlynn. 

 

The End. 

Glossary:

 

• Manhandled:  Physically dominated by opponent.
• Inept:  Having or showing no skill; clumsy...

[ztboiler]

And that is what it looks like when a writer who doesn't know a given team very well tries to write an in-depth piece about their O-line......

[21isSuperman]

 

The craziest part is that McGlynn played 1,118 snaps last year before the team realized he needed to be removed. Maybe the front office should buy a subscription to Pro Football Focus?

This!  It drove me nuts how Pagano would insist on starting guys like McGlynn and Satele when we had better or other options.  Overall, I think that article was well written.  The author seems to know his stuff when it comes to the Colts.  I don't think the front office has Mewhort penciled in as a C though.  As far as I've heard, he hasn't played that position since high school, so maybe as a backup or 3rd string C.  I think our starting OL will be Castonzo-Thomas-Holmes-Thornton/Mewhort-Cherilus

[21isSuperman]

And that is what it looks like when a writer who doesn't know a given team very well tries to write an in-depth piece about their O-line......

I thought it was well-written.  What part did you not agree with?

[PrincetonTiger]

The Colts made several steps in the right direction during the offseason

[akcolt]

 

Glossary:

 

• Manhandled:  Physically dominated by opponent.
• Inept:  Having or showing no skill; clumsy...

 

Is this a Hibbert thread?

[BrentMc11]

Is this a Hibbert thread?

HMMMM...copy and paste?  

[Can'tStandYa]

BR with an good informative article.... Seems a little too good to be true.

[Smonroe]

This!  It drove me nuts how Pagano would insist on starting guys like McGlynn and Satele when we had better or other options.  Overall, I think that article was well written.  The author seems to know his stuff when it comes to the Colts.  I don't think the front office has Mewhort penciled in as a C though.  As far as I've heard, he hasn't played that position since high school, so maybe as a backup or 3rd string C.  I think our starting OL will be Castonzo-Thomas-Holmes-Thornton/Mewhort-Cherilus

 

I'll agree we had other options.  I don't know if we had better options.  I have to think that the coaches would play the guys who give us the best chance to win.

 

We're not in the inner circle.  We don't know how these guys look in practice or in the film room. 

 

I'm not saying I have blind faith in our coaches, I'm just saying that we may have seen the best five each week.  None of us can really say otherwise.

[ColtsBTM12]

I just really hope Donald Thomas is fully healthy by the start of the season. With the amount of injuries the O-line has suffered throughout the season the past two years it seems useless to be making predictions about how they will or will not improve effieciency wise. If we don't have the injury bug, then I'm sure we could potentially have a solid offensive line.

[21isSuperman]

I'll agree we had other options.  I don't know if we had better options.  I have to think that the coaches would play the guys who give us the best chance to win.

 

We're not in the inner circle.  We don't know how these guys look in practice or in the film room. 

 

I'm not saying I have blind faith in our coaches, I'm just saying that we may have seen the best five each week.  None of us can really say otherwise.

From what I saw, our OL played much better when Shipley was in.  He may have been the less talented player compared with Satele, but the OL as a group performed much better with him than Satele.  Yet, they trade Shipley and start Satele.  And why not give Holmes some playing time?  I'm not sure if there was an injury with him or what the situation was, but we could have at least used that to get him some game experience.  At best, we find our C of the next 10 years.  At worst, we see Holmes is like Satele and either needs a lot of work, or we need to look for someone else to be our long term C.

[Smonroe]

From what I saw, our OL played much better when Shipley was in.  He may have been the less talented player compared with Satele, but the OL as a group performed much better with him than Satele.  Yet, they trade Shipley and start Satele.  And why not give Holmes some playing time?  I'm not sure if there was an injury with him or what the situation was, but we could have at least used that to get him some game experience.  At best, we find our C of the next 10 years.  At worst, we see Holmes is like Satele and either needs a lot of work, or we need to look for someone else to be our long term C.

Shipley didn't exactly set the Ravens on fire. We don't know how Holmes was doing in practice. Did you really want a rookie, possibly still recovering from injury, protecting the franchise?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that none of us really know the intimate details. We all (me included) thought there had to be someone better than Satele or McGlynn. But we don't know if they were on our team last year.

[Superman]

I just really hope Donald Thomas is fully healthy by the start of the season. With the amount of injuries the O-line has suffered throughout the season the past two years it seems useless to be making predictions about how they will or will not improve effieciency wise. If we don't have the injury bug, then I'm sure we could potentially have a solid offensive line.

 

I'm assuming that Donald Thomas is placed on PUP at the beginning of training camp. No positive news about him so far, whereas everyone else returning from injury has been reported on. So I'm not optimistic about Thomas, personally.

[Superman]

I disagree with so many of the conclusions in that article, but I definitely agree with the idea that the offensive line will be better in 2014.

[NewColtsFan]

I'm assuming that Donald Thomas is placed on PUP at the beginning of training camp. No positive news about him so far, whereas everyone else returning from injury has been reported on. So I'm not optimistic about Thomas, personally.

 

In the audio section of the website, there's an interview with Donald Thomas (along with another player whose name I forget) that runs a few minutes.

 

The interviews -- which are from mid-May -- are only a few minutes long, so it's not hard to listen to.    At some point, Thomas says that he's coming along fine, and expects to be back, when "the bullets are flying...."

 

Now, in my experience,  more times than not, that means when the regular season starts.   But, it could also mean, when the pre-season games start.     And, it could also mean when training camp starts.   I don't know which of the three?    But whichever one it is, to me it gives more ammunition that Grigson and Pagano were simply not going to take it as an article of good faith that Thomas would be 100% good to go when they wanted him.    So, they went out and drafted a player to shore up the interior line.   

 

Whether Mewhort fills in for Thomas until he's 100%, or fills in for Thornton until he's ready to play at NFL speed, or fills in for Holmes if he's not ready to go for whatever reason -- Mewhort is the front office's attempt to protect Andrew Luck from a 3rd straight year of substandard interior line play.

[IAColtsFan]

From what I saw, our OL played much better when Shipley was in.  He may have been the less talented player compared with Satele, but the OL as a group performed much better with him than Satele.  Yet, they trade Shipley and start Satele.  And why not give Holmes some playing time?  I'm not sure if there was an injury with him or what the situation was, but we could have at least used that to get him some game experience.  At best, we find our C of the next 10 years.  At worst, we see Holmes is like Satele and either needs a lot of work, or we need to look for someone else to be our long term C.

 

Khaled missed pretty much all of Training Camp due to an ankle injury (that I believe he played through in college??).  Throwing him out there at arguably one of the hardest o-line positions (center) after missing Training Camp most likely would have had a worse outcome than throwing Trent Richardson out there mid-season. 

 

I think going through a full Training Camp will greatly help them both.  I'm excited to see what Khaled and the rest of the line can do this year.

[21isSuperman]

Shipley didn't exactly set the Ravens on fire. We don't know how Holmes was doing in practice. Did you really want a rookie, possibly still recovering from injury, protecting the franchise?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that none of us really know the intimate details. We all (me included) thought there had to be someone better than Satele or McGlynn. But we don't know if they were on our team last year.

I would liked to have seen a chance taken with Holmes rather than continually going with a known commodity in Satele.  I do agree with you in that we don't know the details of what goes on in coach meetings and on the practice field.  Even if Holmes isn't doing well in practice, at least give him some game time to see how he does at full speed.  It's not like Satele was doing a great job protecting Luck.  If he doesn't play well, then you know that and he at least got some experience.  If he plays well, then great.  If he didn't play due to injury, then that's another story.

[21isSuperman]

Khaled missed pretty much all of Training Camp due to an ankle injury (that I believe he played through in college??).  Throwing him out there at arguably one of the hardest o-line positions (center) after missing Training Camp most likely would have had a worse outcome than throwing Trent Richardson out there mid-season. 

 

I think going through a full Training Camp will greatly help them both.  I'm excited to see what Khaled and the rest of the line can do this year.

Agreed!

[Smonroe]

I would liked to have seen a chance taken with Holmes rather than continually going with a known commodity in Satele.  I do agree with you in that we don't know the details of what goes on in coach meetings and on the practice field.  Even if Holmes isn't doing well in practice, at least give him some game time to see how he does at full speed.  It's not like Satele was doing a great job protecting Luck.  If he doesn't play well, then you know that and he at least got some experience.  If he plays well, then great.  If he didn't play due to injury, then that's another story.

Yeah, it's a tough call. When they did use Holmes at the end of the season, I believe he was playing the sixth lineman role, right? He did really well, albeit against a LB. But that told me they didn't think he was ready to between a DT and the franchise.

Hopefully, he's ready to show us why they drafted him now. I still think we'll pick up a veteran backup C after June 1st or during camp.

[ztboiler]

I thought it was well-written.  What part did you not agree with?

He is projecting Thomas to RG and keeping Thornton at LG.  He has picked up on popular press and projected Mewhort as a center instead of paying attention to the actions and words of Grigson.  If you follow this team at all, it is very obvious what the starting line should project as at this stage (subject to several months of change).  

 

The author isn't an insider that would have different info to base projections on and therefore be counter current - he simply isn't really paying attention.

[Burls' Kid's]

Is this a Hibbert thread?

 

 

A giant that cannot seem to rebound the basketball.

[therobg125]

i don't understand why we didn't keep mcglynn at center....he should have been moved there and resigned to be luck's center......he was flat out creating openings up the middle when satele went out........ps....we also shouldn't have gotten rid of aq....we would have a beastly oline....and if we kept mcglynn at center, then donald thomas would be allowed more rest and better evaluation with mewhort being drafted....we may have even focused on our biggest weakness in round 2 - cb.....

[CheezyColt]

He is projecting Thomas to RG and keeping Thornton at LG.  He has picked up on popular press and projected Mewhort as a center instead of paying attention to the actions and words of Grigson.  If you follow this team at all, it is very obvious what the starting line should project as at this stage (subject to several months of change).  

 

The author isn't an insider that would have different info to base projections on and therefore be counter current - he simply isn't really paying attention.

 

Yup.  I was going to say just this if you hadn't.

[Superman]

In the audio section of the website, there's an interview with Donald Thomas (along with another player whose name I forget) that runs a few minutes.

 

The interviews -- which are from mid-May -- are only a few minutes long, so it's not hard to listen to.    At some point, Thomas says that he's coming along fine, and expects to be back, when "the bullets are flying...."

 

Now, in my experience,  more times than not, that means when the regular season starts.   But, it could also mean, when the pre-season games start.     And, it could also mean when training camp starts.   I don't know which of the three?    But whichever one it is, to me it gives more ammunition that Grigson and Pagano were simply not going to take it as an article of good faith that Thomas would be 100% good to go when they wanted him.    So, they went out and drafted a player to shore up the interior line.   

 

Whether Mewhort fills in for Thomas until he's 100%, or fills in for Thornton until he's ready to play at NFL speed, or fills in for Holmes if he's not ready to go for whatever reason -- Mewhort is the front office's attempt to protect Andrew Luck from a 3rd straight year of substandard interior line play.

 

I haven't heard the audio. I'll go find it and have a listen. That's better than the nothing we've been getting, but I think I'm going to continue expecting the least, and anything better than that will be a pleasant surprise. So, Thomas on PUP is what I'm expecting.

 

As for that last paragraph, I think that if Grigson wanted to make sure the interior line play wasn't substandard, he could have done something other than signing Lance Louis and Phil Costa. I know he said he didn't like any of the guards and centers in free agency, but I don't see how Costa sneaks in to the small group of guys you DO like. I get the strategy they chose, and I'm on board with it. But I don't think drafting a lineman late in the second round is the way to protect your QB from another year of poor line play.

 

That said, I really like Mewhort. He'll help our team for a long time.

[schwamm]

i don't understand why we didn't keep mcglynn at center....he should have been moved there and resigned to be luck's center......he was flat out creating openings up the middle when satele went out........ps....we also shouldn't have gotten rid of aq....we would have a beastly oline....and if we kept mcglynn at center, then donald thomas would be allowed more rest and better evaluation with mewhort being drafted....we may have even focused on our biggest weakness in round 2 - cb.....

Oy.

Sure. And if only Mike Hart, Roy Hall and Kenton Keith were still with the team... we'd be the greatest EVAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[throwing BBZ]

I would liked to have seen a chance taken with Holmes rather than continually going with a known commodity in Satele.  I do agree with you in that we don't know the details of what goes on in coach meetings and on the practice field.  Even if Holmes isn't doing well in practice, at least give him some game time to see how he does at full speed.  It's not like Satele was doing a great job protecting Luck.  If he doesn't play well, then you know that and he at least got some experience.  If he plays well, then great.  If he didn't play due to injury, then that's another story.

 

  How about 5,000 more words on what YOU Think should have been done with Holmes. Gee, the HEAD COACH went with his Veteran in a Playoff Run. Duh!!!

[throwing BBZ]

I haven't heard the audio. I'll go find it and have a listen. That's better than the nothing we've been getting, but I think I'm going to continue expecting the least, and anything better than that will be a pleasant surprise. So, Thomas on PUP is what I'm expecting.

 

As for that last paragraph, I think that if Grigson wanted to make sure the interior line play wasn't substandard, he could have done something other than signing Lance Louis and Phil Costa. I know he said he didn't like any of the guards and centers in free agency, but I don't see how Costa sneaks in to the small group of guys you DO like. I get the strategy they chose, and I'm on board with it. But I don't think drafting a lineman late in the second round is the way to protect your QB from another year of poor line play.

 

That said, I really like Mewhort. He'll help our team for a long time.

 

  You must be a Mudd man and only need to draft 5th rders to protect Andrew. Bizarre that it isn`t a Big Deal to draft a future O-line starter in the 2nd rd.

[Superman]

  You must be a Mudd man and only need to draft 5th rders to protect Andrew. Bizarre that it isn`t a Big Deal to draft a future O-line starter in the 2nd rd.

 

What are you talking about??? 

 

I have nothing against the Mewhort pick; I've defended it very much. I'm saying that if the front office wanted to make sure the interior line play was fixed, they could have added a really good player in free agency. That's what I personally would have done.

 

Stop frothing at the mouth so much and try to keep up.

[21isSuperman]

He is projecting Thomas to RG and keeping Thornton at LG.  He has picked up on popular press and projected Mewhort as a center instead of paying attention to the actions and words of Grigson.  If you follow this team at all, it is very obvious what the starting line should project as at this stage (subject to several months of change).  

 

The author isn't an insider that would have different info to base projections on and therefore be counter current - he simply isn't really paying attention.

True.  I thought some of it was better than what is usually put out there as analysis.  He knew some struggles the Colts had last year (such as DHB's drops), and even said he reviewed some film and noticed things like footwork and waist-bending.  His projections may not be spot on, but I thought it was better than what we usually get.  ESPN provided some brutally superficial analysis when they released their power rankings.

[21isSuperman]

  How about 5,000 more words on what YOU Think should have been done with Holmes. Gee, the HEAD COACH went with his Veteran in a Playoff Run. Duh!!!

Of course I'm posting what I think should have been done.  That's the whole point of the forums.  People post their opinions and ideas and we discuss them.  I don't see the problem

[Superman]

True.  I thought some of it was better than what is usually put out there as analysis.  He knew some struggles the Colts had last year (such as DHB's drops), and even said he reviewed some film and noticed things like footwork and waist-bending.  His projections may not be spot on, but I thought it was better than what we usually get.  ESPN provided some brutally superficial analysis when they released their power rankings.

 

I didn't like the article that much, because of what ztboiler said, but you make a good point. It's better than a lot of the so-called analysis that's out there. I just think he tried too hard to be original, and as these pieces go, it's overly reliant on PFF as an authority.

[21isSuperman]

I didn't like the article that much, because of what ztboiler said, but you make a good point. It's better than a lot of the so-called analysis that's out there. I just think he tried too hard to be original, and as these pieces go, it's overly reliant on PFF as an authority.

I noticed that too, he throws a lot of numbers and grades out there.  PFF is a good source, but I've heard from multiple sources that its rankings are somewhat subjective.

[Superman]

I noticed that too, he throws a lot of numbers and grades out there.  PFF is a good source, but I've heard from multiple sources that its rankings are somewhat subjective.

 

Anyone's rankings and grades are going to be subjective, that's what you have to be careful about. PFF does a lot of good things, but they aren't the be-all, end-all, by any means.

 

What I like most about them is how they chart plays -- formations, matchups, etc. -- which is great information. 

[ProblChld32]

There is ALOT of potential this line has, lets hope they can get the ball rolling.

[dudeski]

Shipley didn't exactly set the Ravens on fire. We don't know how Holmes was doing in practice. Did you really want a rookie, possibly still recovering from injury, protecting the franchise?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that none of us really know the intimate details. We all (me included) thought there had to be someone better than Satele or McGlynn. But we don't know if they were on our team last year.

yes we do

[Archer]

He is projecting Thomas to RG and keeping Thornton at LG.  He has picked up on popular press and projected Mewhort as a center instead of paying attention to the actions and words of Grigson.  If you follow this team at all, it is very obvious what the starting line should project as at this stage (subject to several months of change).  

 

The author isn't an insider that would have different info to base projections on and therefore be counter current - he simply isn't really paying attention.

 

Well said.  I was signing on to say the same thing after reading the article.  I'd be shocked if Thornton doesn't go back to his more natural RG position (always the plan last year until Thomas got hurt) and Mewhort doesn't practice at LG as a fall-back plan in case Donald Thomas takes longer to recuperate (a storyline that the article underplayed).   I personally believe we've improved greatly at every interior position:

 

LG: Last year we had a 3rd round rookie with a RG skillset and no TC due to injury start out of position at LG from week 2 on.  Thonton was truly set up for failure, and he did so spectacularly.  I don't think he'd practiced hardly at all on the left side before becoming starting LG.  Compare that to Donald Thomas coming back from injury or 2nd round rookie Jack Mewhort (who has a good LG skillset).  Either one should be a big improvement over the terrible situation we were in last year, especially after Mewhort spends an entire offseason and TC at LG.

 

C: Holmes gets a bum-rap because he didn't win PT from Satele (the 4th worst center according to PFF, though it's hard to imagine three worse than him).  However, it is much more logical to think that he was given a red-shirt season.  Think about it: he would have been a 2nd or maybe 1st round pick if he had come out of USC after his Jr. year.  But, he returned, sustained a high-ankle sprain, and played terribly as an injured Sr.  Then, the week before TC, he sustained the exact same injury to the same ankle.  I'd put good money that the coaching staff decided to avoid playing him but keep him on the roster so he can learn and practice with the team.  That way he could come back and compete (presumably against Satele) for the starting center role.  I'm sure it was hard to keep him off the field with as bad as Satele played, but they made a long-term decision.  Anyone would be lying if they said they knew what to expect from Holmes, but it's hard to imagine him not being better than Satele.  He doesn't have to play very well at all to be a significant upgrade over Satele.

 

RG: Same argument as Satele, really.  McGlynn was terrible.  Being on the correct side, having a year of NFL experience, and getting a full TC should make Thornton much better than he was last year (and lightyears ahead of McGlynn).  Also, Lance Louis will be on the right side, and you could make a pretty good argument that he's better than anything we had on the interior of the line last year.