Oline review

[Superman]

Well said.  I was signing on to say the same thing after reading the article.  I'd be shocked if Thornton doesn't go back to his more natural RG position (always the plan last year until Thomas got hurt) and Mewhort doesn't practice at LG as a fall-back plan in case Donald Thomas takes longer to recuperate (a storyline that the article underplayed).   I personally believe we've improved greatly at every interior position:

 

LG: Last year we had a 3rd round rookie with a RG skillset and no TC due to injury start out of position at LG from week 2 on.  Thonton was truly set up for failure, and he did so spectacularly.  I don't think he'd practiced hardly at all on the left side before becoming starting LG.  Compare that to Donald Thomas coming back from injury or 2nd round rookie Jack Mewhort (who has a good LG skillset).  Either one should be a big improvement over the terrible situation we were in last year, especially after Mewhort spends an entire offseason and TC at LG.

 

C: Holmes gets a bum-rap because he didn't win PT from Satele (the 4th worst center according to PFF, though it's hard to imagine three worse than him).  However, it is much more logical to think that he was given a red-shirt season.  Think about it: he would have been a 2nd or maybe 1st round pick if he had come out of USC after his Jr. year.  But, he returned, sustained a high-ankle sprain, and played terribly as an injured Sr.  Then, the week before TC, he sustained the exact same injury to the same ankle.  I'd put good money that the coaching staff decided to avoid playing him but keep him on the roster so he can learn and practice with the team.  That way he could come back and compete (presumably against Satele) for the starting center role.  I'm sure it was hard to keep him off the field with as bad as Satele played, but they made a long-term decision.  Anyone would be lying if they said they knew what to expect from Holmes, but it's hard to imagine him not being better than Satele.  He doesn't have to play very well at all to be a significant upgrade over Satele.

 

RG: Same argument as Satele, really.  McGlynn was terrible.  Being on the correct side, having a year of NFL experience, and getting a full TC should make Thornton much better than he was last year (and lightyears ahead of McGlynn).  Also, Lance Louis will be on the right side, and you could make a pretty good argument that he's better than anything we had on the interior of the line last year. 

 

Good post.

 

About Thornton at LG, I think he has the athleticism to stay on that side of the line. His issue was not being decisive on pull blocks; his other technical issues, like bend and over-extension, would be issues at any spot on the line. But given that he had nearly a full season at LG, and an offseason to work on his craft, and he has better feet than Mewhort, IMO, I'd rather keep him at LG if Donald Thomas can't go. Otherwise you have the same issue at LG that you did last season, with less athleticism. 

[Archer]

Y'know, I thought Thornton looked surprisingly mobile last year when pulling, which he did way more of than any Colt lineman.  However, he really struggled hitting people in the open space.  So, he was very successful getting in position to make those blocks, but not very successful at finishing.  Obviously, we don't know for sure, but I picture Mewhort being equally mobile (after all, he's more than 25 lbs. lighter than Thornton, but 3 inches taller), but maybe a little better at making contact with defenders in the open field.  I don't really disagree with your point about Thornton's athleticism, but I'd have to think that at so much of a leaner (and less powerful) build, Mewhort would have more success hitting defenders when pulling.  We'll see, I guess.

[ztboiler]

Good post.

 

About Thornton at LG, I think he has the athleticism to stay on that side of the line. His issue was not being decisive on pull blocks; his other technical issues, like bend and over-extension, would be issues at any spot on the line. But given that he had nearly a full season at LG, and an offseason to work on his craft, and he has better feet than Mewhort, IMO, I'd rather keep him at LG if Donald Thomas can't go. Otherwise you have the same issue at LG that you did last season, with less athleticism. 

I think we have enough options now that Thornton will stay on the right, but I would have zero issues with Thornton as the long term answer at LG.  People were quick to suppose RG is his better fit since he struggled early, and was drafted for the RG spot - all circumstantial.  He'll be a stud on either side in time.  With the arrival of Mewhort, we'll likely have to cut a pretty decent lineman - what a great problem to finally have.

[ztboiler]

Y'know, I thought Thornton looked surprisingly mobile last year when pulling, which he did way more of than any Colt lineman.  However, he really struggled hitting people in the open space.  So, he was very successful getting in position to make those blocks, but not very successful at finishing.  Obviously, we don't know for sure, but I picture Mewhort being equally mobile (after all, he's more than 25 lbs. lighter than Thornton, but 3 inches taller), but maybe a little better at making contact with defenders in the open field.  I don't really disagree with your point about Thornton's athleticism, but I'd have to think that at so much of a leaner (and less powerful) build, Mewhort would have more success hitting defenders when pulling.  We'll see, I guess.

Mewhort will end up at 320#+ once in the system. All of our trench players get bigger upon arrival.  Either we list them heavier or they gain some weight.  Thornton was drafted at 320#, now he is 334.  Holmes 303, now 319.  

[therobg125]

Oy.

Sure. And if only Mike Hart, Roy Hall and Kenton Keith were still with the team... we'd be the greatest EVAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

aq shipley played well..look at what jerry hughes is doing....and mcglynn did play well at center....what did i say that was wrong....granted there's a ton of nostalgia, but just making an observation...didn't mean anything by it...and no...mike hart was bad.....big difference between the players i named and the players you named......anywho....anyone else feel as though t.y. is getting snubbed on top 100 players list?

[Smonroe]

yes we do

 

You're so erudite!

 

Okay, I'll re-word it - Except for dudeski, none of know what goes on in practice or behind the scenes.

[Superman]

In the audio section of the website, there's an interview with Donald Thomas (along with another player whose name I forget) that runs a few minutes.

 

The interviews -- which are from mid-May -- are only a few minutes long, so it's not hard to listen to.    At some point, Thomas says that he's coming along fine, and expects to be back, when "the bullets are flying...."

 

Now, in my experience,  more times than not, that means when the regular season starts.   But, it could also mean, when the pre-season games start.     And, it could also mean when training camp starts.   I don't know which of the three?    But whichever one it is, to me it gives more ammunition that Grigson and Pagano were simply not going to take it as an article of good faith that Thomas would be 100% good to go when they wanted him.    So, they went out and drafted a player to shore up the interior line.   

 

Whether Mewhort fills in for Thomas until he's 100%, or fills in for Thornton until he's ready to play at NFL speed, or fills in for Holmes if he's not ready to go for whatever reason -- Mewhort is the front office's attempt to protect Andrew Luck from a 3rd straight year of substandard interior line play.

 

So I just listened to the audio. He seems eager to get out on the field and play, said he can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and that he feels like he's ready to go, but it wouldn't be smart to do so right now. Not a lot of real information, but he at least seems optimistic.

 

There's two months before camp starts, with two more OTAs and a minicamp, right? If Thomas is ready to practice by camp, then I'll start feeling optimistic. 

[Smonroe]

So I just listened to the audio. He seems eager to get out on the field and play, said he can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and that he feels like he's ready to go, but it wouldn't be smart to do so right now. Not a lot of real information, but he at least seems optimistic.

 

There's two months before camp starts, with two more OTAs and a minicamp, right? If Thomas is ready to practice by camp, then I'll start feeling optimistic. 

 

What he wants and what they'll let him do are most likely two different things.  And management wins that argument every time.

 

I suspect they'll be very conservative.  Wouldn't surprise me if he's on PuP to start the season.

[Superman]

What he wants and what they'll let him do are most likely two different things.  And management wins that argument every time.

 

I suspect they'll be very conservative.  Wouldn't surprise me if he's on PuP to start the season.

 

Yup, I've said for a couple weeks now that he'll likely be on PUP. 

[Smonroe]

Yup, I've said for a couple weeks now that he'll likely be on PUP.

Which is fine, if it means he's 100% when he comes back. We're in it for the long haul.

[schwamm]

aq shipley played well..look at what jerry hughes is doing....and mcglynn did play well at center....what did i say that was wrong....granted there's a ton of nostalgia, but just making an observation...didn't mean anything by it...and no...mike hart was bad.....big difference between the players i named and the players you named......anywho....anyone else feel as though t.y. is getting snubbed on top 100 players list?

I am sorry.  If I insulted you, it wasn't my intention.  I just completely disagree with your assertions.

 

I don't agree that AQ Shipley played well, but I would agree if your said people wanted/want desperately to believe he did.  I don't agree that he outperformed Satele, but if repetition on this forum is the equivalent of the truth, then I guess it sides with your position.

 

What Hughes did this past year, or does going forward for Buffalo has no bearing on whether the Colts should have shoe-canned his apps or not.  Good for him that he can now tell his apse from his elbow.  He couldn't while he was here.

 

And I believe McGlynn is another myth.  It might be somewhat true that the line as a whole played better when he was in at C, but I think that is more a romanticized view than a reality.  It could also possibly be that the whole offence had to be so significantly dummied down to allow him to even survive, that it only looked like he was better.

 

At the end of the day, the biggest differences between the players you mentioned and the ones I did is that we had to endure more on field activity from your guys (unfortunately, out of necessity), and that they are history of a more current variety.  All the hyperbole and nostalgia is about the same.

[a06cc]

Lance Louis seems to me like our new Erik Walden. He played good against us, but the Bears decided to release him.

[dudeski]

I am sorry. If I insulted you, it wasn't my intention. I just completely disagree with your assertions.

I don't agree that AQ Shipley played well, but I would agree if your said people wanted/want desperately to believe he did. I don't agree that he outperformed Satele, but if repetition on this forum is the equivalent of the truth, then I guess it sides with your position.

What Hughes did this past year, or does going forward for Buffalo has no bearing on whether the Colts should have shoe-canned his apps or not. Good for him that he can now tell his apse from his elbow. He couldn't while he was here.

And I believe McGlynn is another myth. It might be somewhat true that the line as a whole played better when he was in at C, but I think that is more a romanticized view than a reality. It could also possibly be that the whole offence had to be so significantly dummied down to allow him to even survive, that it only looked like he was better.

At the end of the day, the biggest differences between the players you mentioned and the ones I did is that we had to endure more on field activity from your guys (unfortunately, out of necessity), and that they are history of a more current variety. All the hyperbole and nostalgia is about the same.

not bad. Wrong on most everything but it was worded well

[schwamm]

not bad. Wrong on most everything but it was worded well

Oh, as long as you say so.

As I've told you before, back it up, brother, or find someone else to interact with. Your random, unsupported assertions have gotten boring long ago.

[BrentMc11]

Lance Louis seems to me like our new Erik Walden. He played good against us, but the Bears decided to release him.

Now that is a wonderful comparison....WOW!

[dudeski]

Oh, as long as you say so.

As I've told you before, back it up, brother, or find someone else to interact with. Your random, unsupported assertions have gotten boring long ago.

shipley and mcglynn both outplayed satele. That's not a myth

[Douzer]

A couple of nuggets from the analysis:

 

"Luckily for the Colts and their fans, former guard Mike McGlynn has departed. McGlynn was the worst guard in football to play at least 25 percent of his team’s snaps, per Pro Football Focus."

 

"Like McGlynn, former starting center Samson Satele is also no longer a part of the team. Satele was the fourth-worst overall center in football last year, posting a minus-nine pass-block efficiency rating (second-worst to David Baas). Although he was horrid in pass protection, he was the 19th-best center when it came to run blocking."

 

"Removing two of the worst linemen in football will surely help the Colts improve next year..."

 

"Donald Thomas—the Colts’ “Secret Superstar,” according to Pro Football Focus—is set to return to the lineup after suffering injuries to his biceps and quad in Week 2..."

 

To me, the exit of McGlynn, Satele & Linkenbach, signify that the end of a desperate O-Line era in Indy.

[schwamm]

shipley and mcglynn both outplayed satele. That's not a myth

I will just use your method: YOU ARE WRONG.

[dudeski]

I will just use your method: YOU ARE WRONG.

obviously not

[schwamm]

obviously not

Again. Wrong.

[dudeski]

Again. Wrong.

what do you base your opinion on. Since it isn't actually the play on the field

[schwamm]

what do you base your opinion on. Since it isn't actually the play on the field

I base my opinion on fact. You are wrong again.

[dudeski]

I base my opinion on fact. You are wrong again.

nope

[schwamm]

nope

yep. It's alright, though. You frequently are, so I'm sure people are starting to grow accustomed to it.