Mark Cuban says NFL oversaturating its market and could implode in ten years

[amfootball]

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10668497/mark-cuban-ups-ante-nfl-argument-safety-player-behavior-threats

 

I keep reading these stories about Mark Cuban and I am having a tough time following his line of thinking. He seems to just be insanely jealous of the NFL. Can anyone make sense of his comments?

[BrentMc11]

Cuban is sharp monetarily, but I just cannot fathom the NFL having problems.  

 

Look at all of us crazies on here every single day because we cannot get enough NFL news..rumors..etc...LOVE IT!!

 

[jvan1973]

Cuban is a very smart guy, but i think he is way off on this one

[COLTS449]

The NBA is closer to implosion than the NFL.

[PrincetonTiger]

The NBA is closer to implosion than the NFL.

Agreed

[CR91]

The MLB is way more saturated then the nfl

[BrentMc11]

The MLB is way more saturated then the nfl

Need more NEW stars....it has faded.  New talent has arrived IMO.  MLB will make  big comeback.  Just my humble opinion.

[OffensivelyPC]

He does have a point about the oversaturation of the game.  But where I think his point loses me is that, unlike basketball, there's one game per team per week (on average) for 16 weeks.  Basketball has 3-4 games per team per week for 24 weeks.  Even the playoffs get more dragged out to about 2 weeks per series if it goes 7 games making the entire playoff run last 2 months (where as the NFL playoffs is about a month, including the pro bowl).

 

For the hardcore fans, 3 days of games a week I don't think is too much, even the hardcore basketball fans do that.  But what the NBA does, that the NFL does not, is that it has several games from the same team on a given week, with other games in between and that it's just too much for the dedicated fan (read as more than casual btu less than hardcore fan, i.e. fantasy sports) to really keep up with.  From a fantasy perspective, people who keep track of Monday and Thursday don't miss out on the full experience of the NFL.  I typically watch a half and then go to bed unless its a really good game, I have an interest from a fantasy perspective, or it's a Colts game.  But for the NBA, no one can watch their fantasy players every night of every week, especially considering that most people have to keep up with multiple players on the same time slot on pretty much every day of the week.  Can't do it. 

[crazycolt1]

I think Cuban has a strong point. There is already a decrease in young men even playing football in junior high school and on up to collage. It has been for the last four years. We now have the NFL three days a week and sometimes more. Diehard fans will watch but the casual fan does get over saturated and looses interest. We speak of kids watching too much TV but should that apply to all? 

[BrentMc11]

He does have a point about the oversaturation of the game.  But where I think his point loses me is that, unlike basketball, there's one game per team per week (on average) for 16 weeks.  Basketball has 3-4 games per team per week for 24 weeks.  Even the playoffs get more dragged out to about 2 weeks per series if it goes 7 games making the entire playoff run last 2 months (where as the NFL playoffs is about a month, including the pro bowl).

 

For the hardcore fans, 3 days of games a week I don't think is too much, even the hardcore basketball fans do that.  But what the NBA does, that the NFL does not, is that it has several games from the same team on a given week, with other games in between and that it's just too much for the dedicated fan (read as more than casual btu less than hardcore fan, i.e. fantasy sports) to really keep up with.  From a fantasy perspective, people who keep track of Monday and Thursday don't miss out on the full experience of the NFL.  I typically watch a half and then go to bed unless its a really good game, I have an interest from a fantasy perspective, or it's a Colts game.  But for the NBA, no one can watch their fantasy players every night of every week, especially considering that most people have to keep up with multiple players on the same time slot on pretty much every day of the week.  Can't do it. 

Excellent post.  

 

I absolutely loved the shortened season last year in the NBA....82 games is some serious wear and tear on a body.

[Poster X]

Need more NEW stars....it has faded.  New talent has arrived IMO.  MLB will make  big comeback.  Just my humble opinion.

 

 

Baseball has a problem in which the contracts are getting more insane every year, and guys are getting popped for ped more often. It is almost like they are trying to out do each other with the thinking of " Hey, lets get that one big payday, and we are set for life." The game is not what is was back in the day. Partly because of the strike back in 94 which led to inflated numbers... and all of this madness. They don't straighten up that whole game might implode in on itself.

 

 

 

Football has never had an issue like that, but they really need to stop changing things like with these proposed rule changes... that will alienate people fast.  

[OffensivelyPC]

Excellent post.  

 

I absolutely loved the shortened season last year in the NBA....82 games is some serious wear and tear on a body.

I didn't really watch much then. I used to be a huge basketball fan would watch all the time during the Reggie era.  I wouldn't watch every game, but I'd watch a good portion of them, and I'd always watch playoff games and some other games I was interested in.  But it was like, with the Ron Artest fight and Reggie's retirement, I just stopped watching.  The game had just digressed to a point I wasn't interested. 

 

But with the Pacer's resurrection and what they currently stand for and how they protray themselves, I've been getting back into it since the 2012-2013.  I love this teams mentality.  Reminds me of the Seahawks mentality from this past year (remains to be seen how they handle success though, especially their fanbase).  This current team has rekindled my interest again.

[Dustin]

Yep. A business that has been successful for ~60 years is going to implode within the decade because games are played on Thursdays.

 

 Hey, Cuban:

 

[Flash7]

I don't think he said that the NFL will 'Implode." Here's a recap of what he said, and I think he has some valid points:

 

1. Safety is an issue. This is causing a decline in youth football participation, which could have an effect on the future pool of players. This may also lead to a decrease in interest in the sport, if less people are playing football.

 

2. There is an increase in off-field exposure for all athletes--especially football players, since the popularity of the sport is at an all-time high. This will lead to more reports of bad behavior, which will impact the fans' perspective.

 

3. Adding additional nights for football games (Saturday nights in addition to Thursday nights) may lead to oversaturation. The popularity of the sport may stay the same, but the ratings will drop.

 

I think that all of the above points have merit.

[Black-Vell]

Cuban isn't way off as the general vibe I get from most of the posts on here imply. His logic is sound and can be witnessed maybe not by other sports, but other TV shows for example.

 

You could pick out individual shows such as the whole American Idol genre, but to keep it in NFL perspective, let's use the entire reality TV phenomenon as a whole. Reality TV did exactly what Cuban is decribing.

 

But this is also what hurts his point when talking about the NFL. Reality TV became such a force it changed television. Not sure of your ages, but I remember when the sit-com dominated TV. Now, the NFL is a major force trying to dominate TV like its suppose to. So just like reality TV , its trying to be on as much as possible while it can.

 

So its not "way off" to say one day, 10 years from now, people will not be as interested in football. I mean I didnt watch Thursday night football unless my team or Peyton was playing. My bad, I digress. 

 

As far as a major sport losing its popularity, you could say it happened to boxing. But did it. Boxing brings up another reason why the NFL is different. Boxing lost some of (if not all) its popularity to the UFC. What sport could UFC the NFL? I believe none out now.  

 

  My last point is simple. Cuban wasn't even talking about me losing interest in football or most of you that is on these websites everyday. He's talking about the casual fans like himself. And to me, that is the definition of a "casual fan". So that means nothing to me. I, just like most of you, watch football cause we love "the game" over most if not all other sports.

 

So realistically Mark, I kind of wish football wasn't as popular so I wouldn't have all these non-football fans riding the coattails of my team because we have been successful. Cheers.

[BOTT]

Meh, it's hard to oversaturate the market when your favorite team only plays once a week and only 16 weeks a year. It's impossible to have a "who wants to be a millionaire" problem.....where they put that stupid show on 5 nights a week and people got sick of it.

[BOTT]

Cuban isn't way off as the general vibe I get from most of the posts on here imply. His logic is sound and can be witnessed maybe not by other sports, but other TV shows for example.

 

You could pick out individual shows such as the whole American Idol genre, but to keep it in NFL perspective, let's use the entire reality TV phenomenon as a whole. Reality TV did exactly what Cuban is decribing.

 

But this is also what hurts his point when talking about the NFL. Reality TV became such a force it changed television. Not sure of your ages, but I remember when the sit-com dominated TV. Now, the NFL is a major force trying to dominate TV like its suppose to. So just like reality TV , its trying to be on as much as possible while it can.

 

So its not "way off" to say one day, 10 years from now, people will not be as interested in football. I mean I didnt watch Thursday night football unless my team or Peyton was playing. My bad, I digress. 

 

As far as a major sport losing its popularity, you could say it happened to boxing. But did it. Boxing brings up another reason why the NFL is different. Boxing lost some of (if not all) its popularity to the UFC. What sport could UFC the NFL? I believe none out now.  

 

  My last point is simple. Cuban wasn't even talking about me losing interest in football or most of you that is on these websites everyday. He's talking about the casual fans like himself. And to me, that is the definition of a "casual fan". So that means nothing to me. I, just like most of you, watch football cause we love "the game" over most if not all other sports.

 

So realistically Mark, I kind of wish football wasn't as popular so I wouldn't have all these non-football fans riding the coattails of my team because we have been successful. Cheers.

Boxing didn't fade due to the UFC. Boxing has faded for a multitude of reasons.....corruption, too many weight classes, too many governing bodies, lack of top ranked fights, etc.

[SilentHill]

Need more NEW stars....it has faded.  New talent has arrived IMO.  MLB will make  big comeback.  Just my humble opinion.

 

That's what happens when people stop juicing.

[Valpo2004]

I think Cuban has a strong point. There is already a decrease in young men even playing football in junior high school and on up to collage. It has been for the last four years. We now have the NFL three days a week and sometimes more. Diehard fans will watch but the casual fan does get over saturated and looses interest. We speak of kids watching too much TV but should that apply to all? 

 

I agree with the decreasing participation at the youth level might be a concern.  But I think it will take decades before this plays out IF EVER.  

 

Ultimately though you don't ever have to pick up a football to enjoy watching the game, so I don't think it will hurt footballs broadcast ratings.  The quality of play may go down slowly over time but I think there is a floor to this.  Any spectator sport is going to have benefits to people who play that sport well.  So if you ask me there is a floor to the youth participation rate.

 

As far as expanding the NFL to different days I don't think that has any effect.  People watch their teams and sometimes watch other teams.  As long as people don't get bored of watching their team play (This only happens by having too many games.) then viewership won't go down that much.  

 

There is a problem to be concerned about with the decline in play at the youth levels.  I'm part of that, I won't let my kid play football.  

 

But there is a floor to it.  Football players are too revered in too many places for it to decline too much.  Many parents have a great deal of pride being the parents of the star player or the quarterback or whatever.  The player gets friends and girls because everyone thinks he's awesome because he's good at football.  There is too many social benefits to playing football for participation to go down too much.  

[Valpo2004]

I don't think he said that the NFL will 'Implode." Here's a recap of what he said, and I think he has some valid points:

 

1. Safety is an issue. This is causing a decline in youth football participation, which could have an effect on the future pool of players. This may also lead to a decrease in interest in the sport, if less people are playing football.

 

2. There is an increase in off-field exposure for all athletes--especially football players, since the popularity of the sport is at an all-time high. This will lead to more reports of bad behavior, which will impact the fans' perspective.

 

3. Adding additional nights for football games (Saturday nights in addition to Thursday nights) may lead to oversaturation. The popularity of the sport may stay the same, but the ratings will drop.

 

I think that all of the above points have merit.

 

Those might hurt in their own ways . . . maybe (I think all are maybe) But none are strong enough for an "implosion"

 

As far as the off the field stuff I think that's the least of the concerns.  It's not like baseball and basketball players are saints. 

 

The additional nights will support themselves because the fans of the team will generally watch.

 

Honestly I wouldn't be as concerned about the additional nights as I would the fact that the games limit who can watch due to time zones.  My biggest complaint personally is that the night games (all of them) cause me to choose between missing the game and losing sleep.  And as a dad, I chose sleep over football most nights.  (Because the kid doesn't allow for catching up on sleep on Saturday anymore.  You are up when he's up.  And he's up at 7:30 am at the latest.)

[Black-Vell]

Boxing didn't fade due to the UFC. Boxing has faded for a multitude of reasons.....corruption, too many weight classes, too many governing bodies, lack of top ranked fights, etc.

Of course there are more than 1 reason why boxing lost its popularity. Just like Cuban is giving multiple reasons why the NFL will crash. The point I made was that the NFL is different than boxing and used an example that could fit into Cuban's thinking. Cuban did not say anything about corruption, weight classes, governing bodies or lack of top fights as none of that pertains to the NFL. I only used the boxing/UFC analogy as an example of fans being lost to another sport. 

[krunk]

I'm just tired of the overblown emphasis on player safety. To me that is what is saturated!

[Jules]

Well it would not be the worst thing in the world. I could get so much more done in terms of work during football season if there was no actual football. lol.

[Jules]

I think Cuban has a strong point. There is already a decrease in young men even playing football in junior high school and on up to collage. It has been for the last four years. We now have the NFL three days a week and sometimes more. Diehard fans will watch but the casual fan does get over saturated and looses interest. We speak of kids watching too much TV but should that apply to all? 

 

The President has even spoken out about player safety and football. And if he had a son he would not want him playing the sport.

 

I think eventually they may start to turn off more and more young men from entering the game. We may be a ways away from that but we also have no idea what the future may hold either.

[thedude]

Cuban is a very smart guy, but i think he is way off on this one

Eventually, the NFL will price themselves out of the market and the TV money will not be able to bail hem out. It's getting close now to pricing the working class out of the game. The NFL seems to operate on this idea that they just can't get enough money.

When it starts to cost $500.00 for a guy to take his kids to a game, it's getting ridiculous. $11.00 for a 12 oz beer, $8.00 for a hot dog, and $125.00 a seat. It's getting out of hand.

I went into a team shop to get a T-shirt last season. $65.00 for a freaking T-shirt. Really? A T-shirt for crying out loud. Don't get me started on these dim wits who go gaga over a $250.00 jersey.

[thedude]

The President has even spoken out about player safety and football.

Who cares what he says?

[BrentMc11]

That's what happens when people stop juicing.

Agreed SH!!

[TAPLOOK]

Cube's a * for sure but he's not a dummy and may be right. 

[BOTT]

Of course there are more than 1 reason why boxing lost its popularity. Just like Cuban is giving multiple reasons why the NFL will crash. The point I made was that the NFL is different than boxing and used an example that could fit into Cuban's thinking. Cuban did not say anything about corruption, weight classes, governing bodies or lack of top fights as none of that pertains to the NFL. I only used the boxing/UFC analogy as an example of fans being lost to another sport.

The only legitimate issue Cuban raised was player safety. The rest merely sounded like a jealous owner from a different/less successful sports league.

[GoPats]

I think Cuban - while I respect his business acumen - is grasping at straws on this one. He owns a team in a league that is not nearly as popular, profitable, or successful as the NFL, which is where I think this is all coming from. 

 

Three days/nights of football a week (Sunday/Monday/Thursday) is not "too much" for any of us. Especially with the popularity of the billion-dollar-business that is Fantasy Football. I know if I've got a guy or two playing on a Thursday night or prime-time Sunday/Monday game, I'm watching. 

 

Could the NFL event over-saturate the market? Sure, I guess it's possible.

 

I don't really buy NFL merchandise and I don't go to games anymore (better seat is on my couch), but even just the TV money the NFL has lined up is unreal.

 

I think Cuban is just wishing that the NBA was a little more relevant once again. To me, it's by far the worst of the four major sports. In terms of the product, the athletes, etc-etc. I watched a lot of basketball in the 80s when the Celtics had Bird and all those guys, but IMO the sport is barely watch-able these days. Every play is either just an isolation thing or some dude heaving up a 3-pointer. And don't get me started on officiating in that league. Ugh.

[TAPLOOK]

I think Cuban - while I respect his business acumen - is grasping at straws on this one. He owns a team in a league that is not nearly as popular, profitable, or successful as the NFL, which is where I think this is all coming from. 

 

Three days/nights of football a week (Sunday/Monday/Thursday) is not "too much" for any of us. Especially with the popularity of the billion-dollar-business that is Fantasy Football. I know if I've got a guy or two playing on a Thursday night or prime-time Sunday/Monday game, I'm watching. 

 

Could the NFL event over-saturate the market? Sure, I guess it's possible.

 

I don't really buy NFL merchandise and I don't go to games anymore (better seat is on my couch), but even just the TV money the NFL has lined up is unreal.

 

I think Cuban is just wishing that the NBA was a little more relevant once again. To me, it's by far the worst of the four major sports. In terms of the product, the athletes, etc-etc. I watched a lot of basketball in the 80s when the Celtics had Bird and all those guys, but IMO the sport is barely watch-able these days. Every play is either just an isolation thing or some dude heaving up a 3-pointer. And don't get me started on officiating in that league. Ugh.

Officiating? No one's worse that the NHL. It's one step short of wrestling.  

[Poster X]

Officiating? No one's worse that the NHL. It's one step short of wrestling.

At least we know the outcome of a wrestling match is preodained. Basketball is not supposed to be that way, but it sure seems like it at times... and the sport is by far the worst. The NFL needs to have full time refs itself though, or it won't be too far off the same path. There were some horrific calls last year.

[GoPats]

Officiating? No one's worse that the NHL. It's one step short of wrestling.  

 

That's interesting, I'm not sure I agree, but I haven't heard a lot of hockey fans complain about refs in the NHL. Unless you're playing the Canadiens in Montreal. Then it's a given.  ;)

 

Do you watch a lot of the sport? They tend to call the egregious stuff but often just "let the boys play." 

[pacolts56]

Cuban isn't way off as the general vibe I get from most of the posts on here imply. His logic is sound and can be witnessed maybe not by other sports, but other TV shows for example.

 

You could pick out individual shows such as the whole American Idol genre, but to keep it in NFL perspective, let's use the entire reality TV phenomenon as a whole. Reality TV did exactly what Cuban is decribing.

 

But this is also what hurts his point when talking about the NFL. Reality TV became such a force it changed television. Not sure of your ages, but I remember when the sit-com dominated TV. Now, the NFL is a major force trying to dominate TV like its suppose to. So just like reality TV , its trying to be on as much as possible while it can.

 

So its not "way off" to say one day, 10 years from now, people will not be as interested in football. I mean I didnt watch Thursday night football unless my team or Peyton was playing. My bad, I digress. 

 

As far as a major sport losing its popularity, you could say it happened to boxing. But did it. Boxing brings up another reason why the NFL is different. Boxing lost some of (if not all) its popularity to the UFC. What sport could UFC the NFL? I believe none out now.  

 

  My last point is simple. Cuban wasn't even talking about me losing interest in football or most of you that is on these websites everyday. He's talking about the casual fans like himself. And to me, that is the definition of a "casual fan". So that means nothing to me. I, just like most of you, watch football cause we love "the game" over most if not all other sports.

 

So realistically Mark, I kind of wish football wasn't as popular so I wouldn't have all these non-football fans riding the coattails of my team because we have been successful. Cheers.

I agree....for now the NFL is king.

 

Eventually though, the one sport that could possibly do it.....but it would more likely take place closer to 20-25 years from now....is soccer.

 

How?

 

The demographics of the US population is projected to shift by 2042 to a Latino/Hispanic majority. If those demographic projections are born out, then soccer could equal or possibly even eclipse the NFL's popularity.

 

It may seem ridiculous now....but in my 57 years I've seen baseball go from meteorically popular to almost flat-lined as NFL popularity emerged. A dramatic demographic shift such as what is projected could siphon the NFL's popularity off into soccer due to higher participation and viewership.

[thedude]

I think Cuban - while I respect his business acumen - is grasing at straws on this one.

Nope, he's spot on.

[schwamm]

I confess to feeling a loss of interest in the past couple years, but I really don't think it's due to anything the NFL is doing or not doing (although I agree with Cuban a little, and really hope they don't add more expansion teams, lengthen the season, add playoff games, or otherwise screw up this game I love...)

I'm still a devoted season ticket holder, and I still come on here every day to read and post, but being a fan is becoming a little less fun, and a little less exhilarating.

I don't remember which poster/former mod wrote about the changing culture on this forum a few months ago, but I've definitely noticed a change in the attitudes of posters in recent years. It just seems like the number of negative, myopic, bash-and-blamers has grown exponentially of late. Given the team's long run of success, it kinda baffles me. But it is expanding and multiplying around us like a virus, and sucking the joy I once had for the game right out if me.

Patience is dead. Long live our new instant gratification world. May bitterness and finger pointing rule the day! Hazzaah!

[oldunclemark]

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10668497/mark-cuban-ups-ante-nfl-argument-safety-player-behavior-threats

 

I keep reading these stories about Mark Cuban and I am having a tough time following his line of thinking. He seems to just be insanely jealous of the NFL. Can anyone make sense of his comments?

Mark Cuban cant predict the future....and is not involved in the day-to-day operation of the NFL.. 

 

don't listen to him

[TAPLOOK]

That's interesting, I'm not sure I agree, but I haven't heard a lot of hockey fans complain about refs in the NHL. Unless you're playing the Canadiens in Montreal. Then it's a given.  ;)

 

Do you watch a lot of the sport? They tend to call the egregious stuff but often just "let the boys play."

I was fresh off the Canadians game and it was typical. They let them play come playoffs and it's a better game for it. Montreal won't beat the Bruins should they meet.

[oldunclemark]

Has any league ever imploded?

[jvan1973]

Has any league ever imploded?

usfl