Excellent Quote from Grigson we are in good hands

[rock8591]

Agreed, the run means nothing in the NFL nowadays.

 

You win by rushing the passer, and by passing the ball.

 

Passing the ball guarantees quick points. Rushing the passer stops 90% of the opposing team offense.

[NewEra]

Agreed, the run means nothing in the NFL nowadays.

You win by rushing the passer, and by passing the ball.

Passing the ball guarantees quick points. Rushing the passer stops 90% of the opposing team offense.

Tell that to Seattle

[MacDee1975]

100% pure bovine excrement.

 

Your assertions are just simply wrong on so many levels.  But here is the one I like the best - deciding after one year there is only 1 keeper from the group is comical. 

 

I guess we can't surmise that anyone from the 2012 class are keepers either then.  Too early.  I'm sure if I look back in the archives, there weren't any conclusions drawn towards the positive in regards to anyone from our 2012 class after one year of play.

[Jason_]

Tell that to Seattle

And San Francisco, Carolina and new england.

[schwamm]

I guess we can't surmise that anyone from the 2012 class are keepers either then. Too early. I'm sure if I look back in the archives, there weren't any conclusions drawn towards the positive in regards to anyone from our 2012 class after one year of play.

A better example would be Fleener. Digging through the archives would show you that there were a bunch of posters who were convinced he was a total bust. One year later, and he's suddenly part of the "best TE tandom in the NFL!!!". I would not be surprised to learn it is the same "overreact much?" crowd in both instances.

[jskinnz]

I guess we can't surmise that anyone from the 2012 class are keepers either then.  Too early.  I'm sure if I look back in the archives, there weren't any conclusions drawn towards the positive in regards to anyone from our 2012 class after one year of play.

 

Well, stay with me here... there is a year's more of a sample size to make a determination on the 2012 class and as Schwamm said - Fleener is a good case study.

 

More on the overreaction of fans - the standard of what makes a successful draft is wildly innaccurate.  Take a guy like Thornton - if he is a decent starter (not terrible but not close to great either) for the length of his rookie contract and then walks in free agency is that failed pick?  I would say not close.  In fact I would say the team got out of him exactly what they hoped for.  But by the standard you are assigning to the 2013 draft, it is already deemed a bust.  What if Holmes starts for a few years along side Thornton.  What is Werner plays at a decent level and what if Hughes improves (gasp) over his rookie season?  You know what you have then - a pretty good draft.

[MacDee1975]

Well, stay with me here... there is a year's more of a sample size to make a determination on the 2012 class and as Schwamm said - Fleener is a good case study.

 

More on the overreaction of fans - the standard of what makes a successful draft is wildly innaccurate.  Take a guy like Thornton - if he is a decent starter (not terrible but not close to great either) for the length of his rookie contract and then walks in free agency is that failed pick?  I would say not close.  In fact I would say the team got out of him exactly what they hoped for.  But by the standard you are assigning to the 2013 draft, it is already deemed a bust.  What if Holmes starts for a few years along side Thornton.  What is Werner plays at a decent level and what if Hughes improves (gasp) over his rookie season?  You know what you have then - a pretty good draft.

 

Yeah.....you both have a point about Fleener.  I hated it when he was labeled as a bust after only one year, and it bothers me even more that Holmes is being sold out, as he wasn't even healthy last year and barely played.  He has not established himself as a bust by any means.

[BrentMc11]

Yeah.....you both have a point about Fleener.  I hated it when he was labeled as a bust after only one year, and it bothers me even more that Holmes is being sold out, as he wasn't even healthy last year and barely played.  He has not established himself as a bust by any means.

And.......Fleener will benefit from a healthy Allen...in no way a bust.     !!!

[GoColts8818]

Wait trust the plan not complain that Grigson has prevented Luck from winning five Super Bowls in two years...

Interesting concept.

[rock8591]

Tell that to Seattle

 

They won by pressuring the passer (e.g. Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons), and scoring off TOs and passing, not running the ball.

You won't see many championship teams with players like Jamal Lewis, Adrian Peterson with 2000+ yard rushing seasons.

[Superman]

Well, stay with me here... there is a year's more of a sample size to make a determination on the 2012 class and as Schwamm said - Fleener is a good case study.

 

More on the overreaction of fans - the standard of what makes a successful draft is wildly innaccurate.  Take a guy like Thornton - if he is a decent starter (not terrible but not close to great either) for the length of his rookie contract and then walks in free agency is that failed pick?  I would say not close.  In fact I would say the team got out of him exactly what they hoped for.  But by the standard you are assigning to the 2013 draft, it is already deemed a bust.  What if Holmes starts for a few years along side Thornton.  What is Werner plays at a decent level and what if Hughes improves (gasp) over his rookie season?  You know what you have then - a pretty good draft.

 

Wait just a doggone minute. You dare to suggest that a player is going to get better in his second year as a pro? What gives you the right? I demand to know!!

[Superman]

They won by pressuring the passer (e.g. Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons), and scoring off TOs and passing, not running the ball.

You won't see many championship teams with players like Jamal Lewis, Adrian Peterson with 2000+ yard rushing seasons.

 

Who said anything about a player with a 2,000 yard rushing season? We're talking about being able to run the football effectively, which Seattle did all season last year. They were one of the most efficient rushing teams in the league, which took pressure off of their young QB and barely average receiving corps. 

 

And of course rushing the passer is important. Doesn't mean being able to run and stop the run isn't important also.

[ztboiler]

They won by pressuring the passer (e.g. Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons), and scoring off TOs and passing, not running the ball.

You won't see many championship teams with players like Jamal Lewis, Adrian Peterson with 2000+ yard rushing seasons.

Jamal Lewis is curious about that Superbowl he rushed for 102 yards in and won......

 

It's not that you don't have a good point, but it's incomplete.  Ball Control was extremely important to Seattle last year and had a significant impact on their defensive success.

[throwing BBZ]

I meant that so far he hasn't showed to be a guy who just builds and gets younger through the draft. That's what the Chiefs have going for them. They're 2nd team guys are probably better than some teams starters. They're backups almost beat the Chargers and gave the Colts a run for our money in the playoffs.

 

I'm not saying his approach has been terrible, but what he's saying about team building is something he hasn't really shown. The teams I listed are all good teams with incredible depth because they draft good and have a young group of guys as their core. His philosophy is the exact opposite. He is the guy who likes to find guys in the trenches. If there is one major thing this team lacks, its young depth, specifically on defense.

 

 I would say we are LOADED with young inexperienced depth just as the situations has demanded.

Look at the ____ he just threw out. Satele, McGlynn, Link, Franklin, Mathews, Angerer, DHB.

He has better players than each of them in line. It is OK if you don`t believe it and have Nostalgia for those sent packing.

When his 1st draft class gets its 3rd year in, IMO, Most should be able to look at HIS roster and appreciate what he is done.

[throwing BBZ]

Agreed, the run means nothing in the NFL nowadays.

 

You win by rushing the passer, and by passing the ball.

 

Passing the ball guarantees quick points. Rushing the passer stops 90% of the opposing team offense.

 

at Peyton and his quick points.

Seattle 135 yards rushing

Denver 27

 

 What we have here is a failure to communicate. Chuck is going to develop a respected running game, one that will need to be game planned for, and one that can wear a D down.

 Even getting 2 yards a carry with that poor O-Line, his philosophy was working until Reggie went down.

 Chuck chose to over respect his veteran O-Lineman through thin and thinner, Ugh, then they got the boot. The BUILD is working.

[rock8591]

at Peyton and his quick points.

Seattle 135 yards rushing

Denver 27

 

 What we have here is a failure to communicate. Chuck is going to develop a respected running game, one that will need to be game planned for, and one that can wear a D down.

 Even getting 2 yards a carry with that poor O-Line, his philosophy was working until Reggie went down.

 Chuck chose to over respect his veteran O-Lineman through thin and thinner, Ugh, then they got the boot. The BUILD is working.

 

The reason why the stopped Manning because they rushed the passer, both on the D-Line, while their secondary made plays (several INTs).

[Defjamz26]

They won by pressuring the passer (e.g. Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons), and scoring off TOs and passing, not running the ball.

You won't see many championship teams with players like Jamal Lewis, Adrian Peterson with 2000+ yard rushing seasons.

 

You're crazy if you don't think that offense in Seattle runs through Marshawn Lynch. I think Russel Wilson is great, but he wasn't anything more than a game manager in the playoffs. He didn't have to do much for them. They won that Superbowl thanks to their D, and Wilson making a few key throws against a depleted secondary. But Lynch and the D carried them through most of the regular season.

[schwamm]

Yeah.....you both have a point about Fleener. I hated it when he was labeled as a bust after only one year, and it bothers me even more that Holmes is being sold out, as he wasn't even healthy last year and barely played. He has not established himself as a bust by any means.

In the name of full disclosure, I'm not typically inclined to label players as busts anyway. But in the event that anyone actually does dig their way through archives... I am guilty of suggesting I thought the club could have done better than Fleener in the draft. If memory serves, I wanted Cordy Glenn.

I'm fine with Cherillus, but we could have had that spot filled a year earlier (for cheaper), and used that money elsewhere in FA last year. But I recognize that Fleener kinda became indispensable when Allen went down for the year.