Interesting Comments By Polian Just Now....

[BrentMc11]

Not sure how that means the Niners think he's the best safety in free agency.

Pretty good salary...Maybe it was not what he meant.  i am not an interpreter....unless it is Duck Dynasty Southern Drawl.  

[FanFromtheWasteland]

His favorite running back in free agency is Donald Brown. That should tell you everything you need to know about Bill Polian.

 

Yep had one good year out of five and just so happened to be contract year. Imagine that.

[dgambill]

I don't understand some people's view on free agency. It's like people only remember the bad signings....and most of those were obvious from the get go. I mean, who really thought the Albert Haynesworth signing was a good idea? Yet, nobody even remembers that Justin Smith, the cornerstone of the 49ers defense, was a free agent from the Bengals. Hell, teams screw up draft picks year after year, that doesn't make the draft a bad thing.

Nobody said Free Agency is bad....your simply paying a premium price for usually used goods. Occassionaly a great one gets out where a team doesn't know what they have or missused a guy but most of the time the best talent gets re-signed and the bruised fruit or aging vets get let out. There are a handful of great top end talents in FA....probably name them on one hand...and those you pay a big premium for. Early in FA the leverage lies with the players...later on with the team....thus those day 3 and 4 signings are where those good deals usually lie. Nobody hates anything about football...trust me....to me FA usually involves paying a premium price tag for difference makers...I just value building a great deal of your team in the draft and then re-signing them because you know what they can do within your system...you can evaluate them perfectly...you know their character, motor, skills, everything...its easier to re-sign Davis than go out and trust that Verner for example can transition....I tend to be conservative and wouldn't be as active but we've been a buyer because of the restructuring of our organization and rebuilding...in the next coming years we will see Grigs won't be a big player in FA because the roster will be set....and if not..and we are still turning over the roster that much...that isn't good. 

[dw49]

You can go that route, or you can analyze what he said and make a judgment of it. For instance, like I mentioned already, his #1 safety is Antoine Bethea. His #1 running back is Donald Brown. 

 

I'm not dismissing what he's saying because he's saying it. I'm dismissing it because it's rigid, overly dogmatic, and worst of all, makes little sense.

 

 

 

Like how he said he couldn't understand what everyone was talking about when he pulled the regulars during the undefeated season. "We broke the record that counted" , an undefeated season is nothing as it was already done. The guy will just say anything. He figures his IQ is 210 and the rest of the world 75.

[BOTT]

Nobody said Free Agency is bad....your simply paying a premium price for usually used goods. Occassionaly a great one gets out where a team doesn't know what they have or missused a guy but most of the time the best talent gets re-signed and the bruised fruit or aging vets get let out. There are a handful of great top end talents in FA....probably name them on one hand...and those you pay a big premium for. Early in FA the leverage lies with the players...later on with the team....thus those day 3 and 4 signings are where those good deals usually lie. Nobody hates anything about football...trust me....to me FA usually involves paying a premium price tag for difference makers...I just value building a great deal of your team in the draft and then re-signing them because you know what they can do within your system...you can evaluate them perfectly...you know their character, motor, skills, everything...its easier to re-sign Davis than go out and trust that Verner for example can transition....I tend to be conservative and wouldn't be as active but we've been a buyer because of the restructuring of our organization and rebuilding...in the next coming years we will see Grigs won't be a big player in FA because the roster will be set....and if not..and we are still turning over the roster that much...that isn't good.

Well, like you said, because of the roster's shape when he took over, Grigson didn't have much of a choice when it came to free agency. He had to be active.

[BOTT]

Yep had one good year out of five and just so happened to be contract year. Imagine that.

I don't think it had anything to do with effort. Donald finally stayed healthy and others got hurt or underperformed and he made the most of his opportunity.

[itmustbejj]

I don't think it had anything to do with effort. Donald finally stayed healthy and others got hurt or underperformed and he made the most of his opportunity.

 

I agree. Donald is a classy guy who loves the game. I think it was a result of everything coming together at the right time to let him showcase his talent.

[dgambill]

Well, like you said, because of the roster's shape when he took over, Grigson didn't have much of a choice when it came to free agency. He had to be active.

Oh..no doubt....he has made some good moves...Cherilus while I believe a bit overpaid has been great and Redding was an AWESOME signing...his drafts have been better though imo. I'm very glad we held onto Vontae...not only would we let a really good corner walk...but a 2nd rd pick of last year too. As much as I've not liked all the signings at least Grigs has done contracts that we are able to get out of without terrible cap issues. I have liked that. He had to remake a big portion..but obviously the next couple years I hope this is out of peoples system because re-signing our own will be priority #1.....funny that was Bill's point I believe...and we all talk about TY, Allen, Fleener, and Andrew....we won't have a choice to be active when that comes.

[TonyBungee]

Polian is right about how it sucks to cut guys who have toiled & bled for the program. Unfortunately, it's something you have to do sometimes, and something he probably should have done more often.

[BOTT]

Oh..no doubt....he has made some good moves...Cherilus while I believe a bit overpaid has been great and Redding was an AWESOME signing...his drafts have been better though imo. I'm very glad we held onto Vontae...not only would we let a really good corner walk...but a 2nd rd pick of last year too. As much as I've not liked all the signings at least Grigs has done contracts that we are able to get out of without terrible cap issues. I have liked that. He had to remake a big portion..but obviously the next couple years I hope this is out of peoples system because re-signing our own will be priority #1.....funny that was Bill's point I believe...and we all talk about TY, Allen, Fleener, and Andrew....we won't have a choice to be active when that comes.

Well, if he still this active in FA in the coming years he hasn't done his job very well lol. I've just always looked at FA as a piece of the puzzle....some people use it wisely and some people don't.

[dgambill]

Well, if he still this active in FA in the coming years he hasn't done his job very well lol. I've just always looked at FA as a piece of the puzzle....some people use it wisely and some people don't.

Can't like this because of my quota but its perfectly said. I do think Bill was a bit FA adverse...could have used it just a bit more...but I also value keeping our own more than most and agreed with the premise Bill was stating. Bill is just such an extreme example it doesn't come off well to most...we can all point out the bad decisions but he made gobs and gobs of great ones...especially early on in buidling this team. I've always said building a contender is a sign of a good GM....keeping one there is a sign of a great one...and having SB teams is a sign of legendary GM. Bill did all those things....he did build a SB caliber team. We did win one...should have won another and probably had the best team of the 2000's outside the 2007 Patriots in our 2005 Colts....that was a SB caliber team....and that wasn't Bill's fault....we killed Pittsburg in the regular season....no reason to lose to them in the playoffs and we were favorites to win it all.

[Modern]

Adding a few free agents if they are needs or upgrades isnt bad, building teams with them is bad.

Polian couldnt find a good corner to save his life in the draft, a free agent corner wouldn't have been a bad thing during his time in Indy.

[John Waylon]

Adding a few free agents if they are needs or upgrades isnt bad, building teams with them is bad.

Polian couldnt find a good corner to save his life in the draft, a free agent corner wouldn't have been a bad thing during his time in Indy.

 

Hayden was a good C2 corner before his injury. Marlin Jackson was in that same boat. 

[Fx Stryker]

Everyone is blessed with hindsight in being able to criticize Bill. Not many of Bill's signing were ludicrous at the time of signing. We were extremely unfortunate with injuries...

[jskinnz]

You can go that route, or you can analyze what he said and make a judgment of it. For instance, like I mentioned already, his #1 safety is Antoine Bethea. His #1 running back is Donald Brown. 

 

I'm not dismissing what he's saying because he's saying it. I'm dismissing it because it's rigid, overly dogmatic, and worst of all, makes little sense.

 

Wow.  I think this may be the first time we have ever been on opposite sides of a topic.  Reasonable minds can disagree...

 

Full disclosure - I have not seen a great deal of ESPN the last few days and am not aware of his positional rankings so I don't have an idea of context.  My guess is that he clearly does not believe that Brown or Bethea are the best FA's at their positions but maybe they represent the best value, which seems to make sense given the comments in the OP. 

 

I guess I am not sure what part makes little sense.  His dislike of FA, or at least the start of FA, is well-chronicled.  Are his beliefs too rigid - sure.  You can absolutely make a reasonable case for that.  But his method to build a team worked pretty well although I would agree that he had to be more proactive in FA when some of the drafts went south.

 

My overall thought on Polian, and why I made my initial comment is that too many people just remember the last few years and not his overall body of work in Indy, which was pretty damn good.  Polian could say the sky is blue and there would be those questioning simply because Polian said it.

[BrentMc11]

Wow.  I think this may be the first time we have ever been on opposite sides of a topic.  Reasonable minds can disagree...

 

Full disclosure - I have not seen a great deal of ESPN the last few days and am not aware of his positional rankings so I don't have an idea of context.  My guess is that he clearly does not believe that Brown or Bethea are the best FA's at their positions but maybe they represent the best value, which seems to make sense given the comments in the OP. 

 

I guess I am not sure what part makes little sense.  His dislike of FA, or at least the start of FA, is well-chronicled.  Are his beliefs too rigid - sure.  You can absolutely make a reasonable case for that.  But his method to build a team worked pretty well although I would agree that he had to be more proactive in FA when some of the drafts went south.

 

My overall thought on Polian, and why I made my initial comment is that too many people just remember the last few years and not his overall body of work in Indy, which was pretty damn good.  Polian could say the sky is blue and there would be those questioning simply because Polian said it.

One of the best posts in this thread^^^

 

I am guilty of despising him WITH Chris Polian.  Other than him being testy/feisty/rude to media and fans we had one of the nicest runs during his tenure and should be happy about it.  Just like we should be happy with back to back 11-5 campaigns after our near 0-16 year.

 

Nice post jskinnz!!  Need to  come back and LIKE!

[Superman]

Wow.  I think this may be the first time we have ever been on opposite sides of a topic.  Reasonable minds can disagree...

 

Full disclosure - I have not seen a great deal of ESPN the last few days and am not aware of his positional rankings so I don't have an idea of context.  My guess is that he clearly does not believe that Brown or Bethea are the best FA's at their positions but maybe they represent the best value, which seems to make sense given the comments in the OP. 

 

I guess I am not sure what part makes little sense.  His dislike of FA, or at least the start of FA, is well-chronicled.  Are his beliefs too rigid - sure.  You can absolutely make a reasonable case for that.  But his method to build a team worked pretty well although I would agree that he had to be more proactive in FA when some of the drafts went south.

 

My overall thought on Polian, and why I made my initial comment is that too many people just remember the last few years and not his overall body of work in Indy, which was pretty damn good.  Polian could say the sky is blue and there would be those questioning simply because Polian said it.

 

Maybe I took your post personally when it wasn't really directed at me. It still seemed like a blanket generalization, rather than an attempt to understand some of the criticism Polian is getting.

 

I'm not a Polian contrarian. My issue with his comments is the bolded. He's been very vocal about his bitter disdain for the entire free agency process in recent days, and that's fine. But he's gone to the extent of renouncing everything about free agency, when we all know how extreme that position is (a few measured free agent moves in his last five or six years here would have helped us tremendously). He comes off as a resentful grouch, with no regard for anything but his own personal philosophy, which again, was far too rigid. His narcissistic "my way is the only way" approach is grating, to say the least.

 

If you have a need at a critical position, it makes sense to be active in free agency to fill that need. It doesn't make sense to pay your own free agent the same or more money than you'd pay a better free agent at the same position. Familiarity is very important, but not that important. His whole "the devil you know" mentality is reasonable to a certain extent. He relied on it to a fault.

 

As for his comments about Bethea and Brown, the value was definitely part of the equation, but in context, I took his comments and rankings to mean that he would sign Bethea for more money than he'd give Byrd. Yeah. 

 

And technically, the sky isn't blue. That's just the color that the light bends into at certain times of the day. ;)

[Superman]

Everyone is blessed with hindsight in being able to criticize Bill. Not many of Bill's signing were ludicrous at the time of signing. We were extremely unfortunate with injuries...

 

See, that's not my beef with him. It's not about saying "see, that signing didn't work, and that draft pick was bad, so Polian was a terrible GM." My beef is that, after multiple years of evidence that a signing was bad or a draft pick didn't work, he didn't patch the holes that were created by his mistakes. Every GM misses. But a good GM shouldn't ride his misses into the ground, to the detriment of the team.

[JoKeR]

Grigson built in three years what Polian couldn't build in a lifetime.

I like Grigs more than Polian but Polian has atleast 2 championships I know of and a hand in some regular season records that Grigs hasn't smelled yet. Also Grigs has been greatly assisted by the new CBA, Lucks low pay has been a great attribute.

That said I think Grigs has a better handle on FA then Polian ever did, that includes resigning players that went into FA.

[Buck Showalter]

weird that Polian hates on Free Agency yet on ESPN's page, he has a free agency tracker named after him...

[BrentMc11]

I like Grigs more than Polian but Polian has atleast 2 championships I know of and a hand in some regular season records that Grigs hasn't smelled yet. Also Grigs has been greatly assisted by the new CBA, Lucks low pay has been a great attribute.

That said I think Grigs has a better handle on FA then Polian ever did, that includes resigning players that went into FA.

Grigson also has upgraded the scouting department 10 fold.  Chris Polian alienated the great scouts we had or got rid of them.

 

It is nice that the Colts have a more family atmosphere from Irsay to the janitor!

[csmopar]

Grigson built in three years what Polian couldn't build in a lifetime.

Ehh as much as I dislike Polian, I can't agree just yet, Polian teams did win a super bowl, went twice. I have a good feeling Grigson's teams will top that, but to date, they've haven't. Though I think the make up of the team is better now than anytime during the BP years... so I guess it depends on the stick used to measure.

[shakedownstreet]

[BrentMc11]

I almost posted that one yesterday....when I found the angry face

[jskinnz]

Maybe I took your post personally when it wasn't really directed at me. It still seemed like a blanket generalization, rather than an attempt to understand some of the criticism Polian is getting.

 

I'm not a Polian contrarian. My issue with his comments is the bolded. He's been very vocal about his bitter disdain for the entire free agency process in recent days, and that's fine. But he's gone to the extent of renouncing everything about free agency, when we all know how extreme that position is (a few measured free agent moves in his last five or six years here would have helped us tremendously). He comes off as a resentful grouch, with no regard for anything but his own personal philosophy, which again, was far too rigid. His narcissistic "my way is the only way" approach is grating, to say the least.

 

If you have a need at a critical position, it makes sense to be active in free agency to fill that need. It doesn't make sense to pay your own free agent the same or more money than you'd pay a better free agent at the same position. Familiarity is very important, but not that important. His whole "the devil you know" mentality is reasonable to a certain extent. He relied on it to a fault.

 

As for his comments about Bethea and Brown, the value was definitely part of the equation, but in context, I took his comments and rankings to mean that he would sign Bethea for more money than he'd give Byrd. Yeah. 

 

And technically, the sky isn't blue. That's just the color that the light bends into at certain times of the day. ;)

 

1) My initial post was not remotely intended towards you at all.  Just a response to the OP.  I am at work and typed a response then got busy and did not hit send until after several posts were already made.  So maybe it was "out of order" and looked like it was directed at you.  It was not.

 

2) It is a blanket generalization that no matter what Polian says, there will be a contingent on here immediately denouncing it.  That is not debatable.  And I think that crowd largely misses the message so they can impale the messenger.  Maybe his TV talk seem disingenious to you but I listen to him more about the process of building a team and how someone who has been in the position thinks about something. I think there is value to his commentary and not just on FA.   

 

3) And I was just coming back from lunch and Dakich has Venturi on and he commented on how good a job Polian did in his time here specifically because of the financial limitations created by Manning and his huge contract.  Do I think he could have handled FA better? Sure - but I also think he was hamstrung to a degree.

[Superman]

1) My initial post was not remotely intended towards you at all.  Just a response to the OP.  I am at work and typed a response then got busy and did not hit send until after several posts were already made.  So maybe it was "out of order" and looked like it was directed at you.  It was not.

 

2) It is a blanket generalization that no matter what Polian says, there will be a contingent on here immediately denouncing it.  That is not debatable.  And I think that crowd largely misses the message so they can impale the messenger.  Maybe his TV talk seem disingenious to you but I listen to him more about the process of building a team and how someone who has been in the position thinks about something. I think there is value to his commentary and not just on FA.   

 

3) And I was just coming back from lunch and Dakich has Venturi on and he commented on how good a job Polian did in his time here specifically because of the financial limitations created by Manning and his huge contract.  Do I think he could have handled FA better? Sure - but I also think he was hamstrung to a degree.

 

Fair enough, overall. I don't disregard everything Polian says, I just don't agree with his rigid philosophy. So his utter disdain for free agency is irrelevant to me.

 

To point #3, I think that's a misconception that people continue to repeat. Manning's contract didn't prevent Polian from paying his own guys. We still spent plenty of money, and in a lot of cases, that was smart. I'm not complaining about Harrison, Freeney, Sanders, etc. But sometimes we needed to fix some sore spots, and free agency would have been an effective method of doing so. But instead, we overspent to keep Gary Brackett or Kelvin Hayden.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Grigson built in three years what Polian couldn't build in a lifetime.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm this is wrong!!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

People don't want to admit he's correct because so many of them want to sign all the high priced FAs they can get. 

 

But every year it's the same thing... there are one or two guaranteed blue chip free agents, the rest are players that have had injury concerns, had one good year, on the downside of their careers, or are something else that makes them expendable to their current team and they will get larger contracts than their situation dictates.

 

Smart GMs use FA to fill holes not develop rosters. 

This is correct, there are a few free agents that are blur chips, and they get paid. & there are others that are OK & they get paid. Sometimes they get paid and don't pan out because of poor evaluation. I like building threw the draft & acquiring smart pieces that a coach or GM has hands on knowledge of. IE Artur Jones, & Redding!

[BOTT]

This is correct, there are a few free agents that are blur chips, and they get paid. & there are others that are OK & they get paid. Sometimes they get paid and don't pan out because of poor evaluation. I like building threw the draft & acquiring smart pieces that a coach or GM has hands on knowledge of. IE Artur Jones, & Redding!

That's pretty much what all teams do. I don't think anyone has actually attempted to build a team thru free agency.

[swflacoltsfans]

Polian cost this team at least one super bowl by not going into free agency when we had Peyton. 

[MCurtis32]

Multiple time executive of the year, multi-millionaire. If he is a loser, what does that make all of the people hating on him

Football fans that helped pad his wallet while expecting more performance from a guy of his reputation. Nepatism showed the nut doesn't fall far from the tree. He should thank god for Kelly and Manning. Luck would have been picked over for RG3 if he was still here!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

That's pretty much what all teams do. I don't think anyone has actually attempted to build a team thru free agency.

New Orleans Drew Brezzeee

[Buck Showalter]

Fair enough, overall. I don't disregard everything Polian says, I just don't agree with his rigid philosophy. So his utter disdain for free agency is irrelevant to me.

 

To point #3, I think that's a misconception that people continue to repeat. Manning's contract didn't prevent Polian from paying his own guys. We still spent plenty of money, and in a lot of cases, that was smart. I'm not complaining about Harrison, Freeney, Sanders, etc. But sometimes we needed to fix some sore spots, and free agency would have been an effective method of doing so. But instead, we overspent to keep Gary Brackett or Kelvin Hayden.

I've been pretty critical of Polian in the past, (I was bitter about the jets game in '09) but the guy was the GM of two great NFL teams that experienced some sustained success...

But, he did largely fall short of the ultimate goal & the Lombardi's eluded him for the most part. (1-5 in SB appearances)

 

I guess I feel that this sums up part of Polian's problem (or what some fans feel is/was his problem as a GM)...

he seemed too set in his ways with a rigid philosophy...

 

Hard telling now if his approach to FA would have been a bit different through '03-'05 Peyton might have had a few more rings...

[dgambill]

You can go that route, or you can analyze what he said and make a judgment of it. For instance, like I mentioned already, his #1 safety is Antoine Bethea. His #1 running back is Donald Brown. 

 

I'm not dismissing what he's saying because he's saying it. I'm dismissing it because it's rigid, overly dogmatic, and worst of all, makes little sense.

Not to bust your chops but I did find it interesting that basically the #1 RB signed so far....Donald Brown to a 3yr 10 million contract. Antoine Bethea to SF for around 6 mil per season was seen as a great signing too by most...so was Bill wrong? lol Sometimes the best signing is simply the best value or fit. I think both teams did GREAT with those two signings. (You know I love you..so yeah...I'm busting your chops)

[BOTT]

New Orleans Drew Brezzeee

That's one guy

[Superman]

Not to bust your chops but I did find it interesting that basically the #1 RB signed so far....Donald Brown to a 3yr 10 million contract. Antoine Bethea to SF for around 6 mil per season was seen as a great signing too by most...so was Bill wrong? lol Sometimes the best signing is simply the best value or fit. I think both teams did GREAT with those two signings. (You know I love you..so yeah...I'm busting your chops)

 

I've actually heard a lot of SD media and fans that don't like the Brown signing. The RB market is hard to really gauge, because the value of veteran backs is so diminished, but I don't think most people would consider Brown to be the best FA RB this year. And Bethea turns out to be more like $5m/year than the initially reported nearly $7m/year. But the point was that Polian had Bethea as an A level player, and had Byrd as a B-, and Ward and Whitner as a C, I believe. Just smacks of favoritism, and not objective analysis.

[dgambill]

I've actually heard a lot of SD media and fans that don't like the Brown signing. The RB market is hard to really gauge, because the value of veteran backs is so diminished, but I don't think most people would consider Brown to be the best FA RB this year. And Bethea turns out to be more like $5m/year than the initially reported nearly $7m/year. But the point was that Polian had Bethea as an A level player, and had Byrd as a B-, and Ward and Whitner as a C, I believe. Just smacks of favoritism, and not objective analysis.

I don't know...didn't see his comments...maybe he meant for the money they were expected to get it would be an A level signing. I agree he favors his own...thats been obvious over and over again....just thought it funny those two signings look very good.

 

I think SD fans don't like it but they don't understand....what happened in the playoffs. Mathews got hurt AGAIN..and suddenly they had to play Broncos and couldn't run the ball. Brown to me is almost a clone of Mathews running style. I think its a perfect fit and perfect price but maybe I'm biased. I don't think people understood how valuable that running game was to SD down the stretch..and it just got better and also a great insurance policy. Perfect fit in my mind.

 

Also, Bethea is a great fit in SF. He is just as good a tackler as Whitner (maybe not the hitter) and I actually think he can be better in coverage without concerns of run support. We know SF LBs won't need a lot of help with him coming up..and I think its the perfect scheme for him to return to top form. He was cheaper and better option than basically any other safety on the market. Byrd is in his own category...and as explosive as he is...I can't see his value being more than a top corner...but that is what NO paid him....good luck.

 

I was just teasing you...I almost always agree with your opinions...Bill is biased to his guys...he always compares people to his guys...just like when he compared Clowney to Bruce Smith...it just is what it is.

[Michael Myers]

Polian is a *. His last few years were nearly as bad as al Davis's.

[jskinnz]

Polian cost this team at least one super bowl by not going into free agency when we had Peyton. 

 

How can you possibly quantify this? 

[BrentMc11]

I've actually heard a lot of SD media and fans that don't like the Brown signing. The RB market is hard to really gauge, because the value of veteran backs is so diminished, but I don't think most people would consider Brown to be the best FA RB this year. And Bethea turns out to be more like $5m/year than the initially reported nearly $7m/year. But the point was that Polian had Bethea as an A level player, and had Byrd as a B-, and Ward and Whitner as a C, I believe. Just smacks of favoritism, and not objective analysis.

I was actually right in predicting DB to Chargers.  I think DB is a perfect fit...with Ryan Matthews constantly hurt.  Kavell too for that matter at LB.