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Colts and Davis Not Close to a Deal

Leaf

By Leaf
in Colts Football

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Beauregarde Walk On

Beauregarde

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 If he does walk i hope we sign Sam Shields. My little brother is a Packer fan so i ended watching a lot of his games. The dude has amazing speed and shut down just about everyone. 

First, greetings to one of my favorite states, New Mexico. I have been trying to find a way to make a living and live there for the past ten years. I think we need to start thinking about Davis as a lost cause and Shield is certainly an option.

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theanarchist Walk On

theanarchist

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I would also like to note that when the Saints beat us, they didn't have great corners. The Giants haven't had great corners, but an outstanding pass rush. We won in 06 with a great pass rush, and pretty mediocre corners.

The Saints had a pretty good secondary. We had the NFL sack leader on our team this year....I don't recall what our pass defense rank was. I do realize that pass rush helps pass coverage. My point is that there are only so many difference makers at CB in the NFL. Is Davis one of them? He's close. Good CB's get paid lots of $. If we want one, and my opinion is, we need one. Then you're gonna have to pony up the $. There are 4 premier positions in the NFL in my opinion: QB, LT, DE/OLB(pass rusher)and CB. All the top guys get huge $. I just don't think we improve our team by letting Davis walk and picking up just some guy who is mediocre.

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Slick_Rick Walk On

Slick_Rick

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The Saints had a pretty good secondary. We had the NFL sack leader on our team this year....I don't recall what our pass defense rank was. I do realize that pass rush helps pass coverage. My point is that there are only so many difference makers at CB in the NFL. Is Davis one of them? He's close. Good CB's get paid lots of $. If we want one, and my opinion is, we need one. Then you're gonna have to pony up the $. There are 4 premier positions in the NFL in my opinion: QB, LT, DE/OLB(pass rusher)and CB. All the top guys get huge $. I just don't think we improve our team by letting Davis walk and picking up just some guy who is mediocre.

We also don't get better by keeping him, then not improving anywhere else. I'm for keeping the guy, at the right price, but he is very up and down. Sometimes he's a shut down corner, other times, he not that great. If we could get him to play like he did in the Broncos game every time, then yea, pay him. If he's going to play like he did against the Texans...then is he deserving of 10 mil a season? I think we have to become more balanced to win a super bowl.

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theanarchist Walk On

theanarchist

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We also don't get better by keeping him, then not improving anywhere else. I'm for keeping the guy, at the right price, but he is very up and down. Sometimes he's a shut down corner, other times, he not that great. If we could get him to play like he did in the Broncos game every time, then yea, pay him. If he's going to play like he did against the Texans...then is he deserving of 10 mil a season? I think we have to become more balanced to win a super bowl.

So, what position do you think is more important that we improve? Since you think that CB is one that we can weaken and still get by?

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COLTS449 Walk On

COLTS449

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Why? Worst case, we had a cheap, but very good CB for a couple years. Great trade no matter what happens.

Bottom line, someone is going to pay the man. If it isn't us, then we'll overpay someone else.

 

He will be back, but if for some reason he's not, I think we trade up for Dennard plus sign a second tier free agent like Graham or Carroll. Vontae likes playing in Indy, so unless we are only offering 5 or 6 mill per, he's coming back. Dennard would be a perfect fit in our scheme.

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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If I had to guess -- and it's ONLY a guess -- I'd guess that the two sides are not far apart on the amount per year.

 

My guess is we're far apart on the number of years and how much is guaranteed.

 

I'd guess we're at 4 years and $32m,  maybe a little more.   Perhaps $16m guaranteed.

 

My guess is Davis wants 6 years so he can ask for much more guaranteed.    Like,  6-years and $50 Mill and $26m guaranteed.

 

I'd guess that's the stumbling block.    Not sure how to bridge a gap like that.........?

 

Again...... ONLY a guess........

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Valpo2004 Active Roster

Valpo2004

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Looks like they're waiting to set his market price.

 

this is the most positive spin we can put on this at this point.  

 

But given that Grimes signed I feel as though the market has been somewhat set.  So it bothers me a lot that he's excited to be getting calls from other teams.  

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James Active Roster

James

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this is the most positive spin we can put on this at this point.  

 

But given that Grimes signed I feel as though the market has been somewhat set.  So it bothers me a lot that he's excited to be getting calls from other teams.

It's a business. He obviously wants to get paid. If he's not satisfied with 8 mil per year or so..... Then so be it.

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Shive Ring of Honor

Shive

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Talib is the only corner available (when healthy) that could come close to a replacement for Davis. Shields wouldn't be bad, but I still think there'll be a bit of inflation in the CB market and we'd have to overpay for what we'd get.

Money/talent, I'd keep Davis all day, unless he wants $10m+. Keep the proven commodity in our scheme when that money/talent ratio will be essentially the same.

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coltsfanatic24 Practice Squad

coltsfanatic24

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Verner, Shields, and Talib could all get 9 mil a year if not more. The market price for the top 5 CB's is extremely high this year especially CB's that are great in press coverage.

 

I don't want vontae if he is asking more than 8.5

 

id go with verner or sam shields  I just don't know if they could play physical bump and run coverage ? time will tell maybe we can dull out big bucks for talib one of the best physical shut down corners in the game

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Larry Horseman Practice Squad

Larry Horseman

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The Franchise Tag # for CBs is $11,834,000. I would suspect his agent is using that number and the Colts are more in the $8 million range. There's also the question of guaranteed $. Based on contracts in the Grigson era, the Colts probably want to front load guarantees and VD wants it spread more evenly for future stability. 

 

I like VD. I think if our D can stick with the press man scheme (we played zone for a chunk of the season due to injuries), he can thrive. However, he is not a good zone corner at all--he thinks too much and gets burnt. Almost all his bad games were when we were playing heavy zone. That is a weakness for sure. That said, based on the Grimes contract and Franchise Tag #, if we could lock him up for under $10 mill/year and less than $20 mill guaranteed, I would be fine with it. Still a lot of cash, but it is a risk that seems worth while. 

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Rebelknight Walk On

Rebelknight

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Cant they sign him at any time? what time tommarow can free agents talk to other teams? its not midnight tonight is it?

 

Also I bet a deal gets done at 6am ish on Sat. The Colts wold have tagged him if they thought he would not sign. At the very least if they expected to let him see what was out there they would have used the Transition Tag..

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#87WayneFanHe'sTheMan Walk On

#87WayneFanHe'sTheMan

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Cant they sign him at any time? what time tommarow can free agents talk to other teams? its not midnight tonight is it?

 

Also I bet a deal gets done at 6am ish on Sat. The Colts wold have tagged him if they thought he would not sign. At the very least if they expected to let him see what was out there they would have used the Transition Tag..

 

I believe its 4 PM Sat to start talking and 4 PM on Tues to start signing.

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Flash7 Team Captain

Flash7

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If we don't sign Davis, my guess is that we will not sign any of the other top FA corners--Sam Shields, Verner, etc... They would all cost roughly the same, and if that's the case, we'd just sign our own guy, Davis.

 

If this is the case, then I say we go heavy on pass rushers and D-line and get a mid-tier FA corner. Instead of relying heavily on our defensive backfield, we could rely more on our front 7. This would be better against the run as well, and overall, we could still have an effective defense.

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Shive Ring of Honor

Shive

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I don't want vontae if he is asking more than 8.5

id go with verner or sam shields I just don't know if they could play physical bump and run coverage ? time will tell maybe we can dull out big bucks for talib one of the best physical shut down corners in the game

The Titans don't have Verner in their plans, because they are moving from a Cover 2 scheme to Press-Man and know his skill set wouldn't work on the outside. When his own team doesn't want him based on scheme-fit, why should a team running a similar scheme pay big bucks for him as a FA?
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theanarchist Walk On

theanarchist

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Talib is the only corner available (when healthy) that could come close to a replacement for Davis. Shields wouldn't be bad, but I still think there'll be a bit of inflation in the CB market and we'd have to overpay for what we'd get.

Money/talent, I'd keep Davis all day, unless he wants $10m+. Keep the proven commodity in our scheme when that money/talent ratio will be essentially the same.

I'm starting to wonder if Vontae would rather walk

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Kyle Practice Squad

Kyle

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The Titans don't have Verner in their plans, because they are moving from a Cover 2 scheme to Press-Man and know his skill set wouldn't work on the outside. When his own team doesn't want him based on scheme-fit, why should a team running a similar scheme pay big bucks for him as a FA?

what is that???? logic and rational thinking???? THERE IS NO PLACE FOR THAT HERE!!!

 

:)

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Shive Ring of Honor

Shive

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I'm starting to wonder if Vontae would rather walk

You'd really hope after Grigs stuck his neck out to bring an underperforming, in trouble CB here and give him a fresh start, he'd have some degree of loyalty and appreciation. It's a business, but if not for Grigs & Pagano, I don't think he's anywhere near this desirable of a commodity.

what is that???? logic and rational thinking???? THERE IS NO PLACE FOR THAT HERE!!!

:)

I tried to sneak it in. Thanks for blowing my cover!
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Le Neon Walk On

Le Neon

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this is the most positive spin we can put on this at this point.

But given that Grimes signed I feel as though the market has been somewhat set. So it bothers me a lot that he's excited to be getting calls from other teams.

Yeah, kinda just being optimistic at this point. My hope is they field some calls, come back to the Colts, then get something done. For the first time it really feels like VD might really leave.

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Shive Ring of Honor

Shive

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Just go back and watch what Andre Johnson did to him in houston. Then he always seems banged up.

DRC or Shields. Lets do it. Bye Vontae.

Or watch what he did to Denver and many other "high power" offenses. He had a few rough games against top WRs, but also shut down way more.

CB isn't a plug and play position. Chemistry is huge and doesn't happen overnight. What high-priced FA DB has walked into a new locker room and played at the same level that they did with their prior team? See the "Dream Team" Eagles for reference.

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theanarchist Walk On

theanarchist

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You'd really hope after Grigs stuck his neck out to bring an underperforming, in trouble CB here and give him a fresh start, he'd have some degree of loyalty and appreciation. It's a business, but if not for Grigs & Pagano, I don't think he's anywhere near this desirable of a commodity.

I tried to sneak it in. Thanks for blowing my cover!

Loyalty? :headspin:

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1yrdandacloudofdust Walk On

1yrdandacloudofdust

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Or watch what he did to Denver and many other "high power" offenses. He had a few rough games against top WRs, but also shut down way more.

CB isn't a plug and play position. Chemistry is huge and doesn't happen overnight. What high-priced FA DB has walked into a new locker room and played at the same level that they did with their prior team? See the "Dream Team" Eagles for reference.

Deion Sanders. And Deangelo Hall.

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Gavin Walk On

Gavin

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One of the GOAT, an exception. Hall was nowhere NEAR as good with the Raiders as he was with Atlanta, and even worse in Washington.

3.8 picks per year at since coming to Washington and 12.6 passes defensed per season is alot of production

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