Transition Tag on Mack - Now What?

[HarryTheCat]

With the transition tag applied to Alex Mack, what should the Colts do about the Center position?  Do they go after Mack, who will command something north of the $10MM offer he has from the Browns (possibly $11.5MM), or look elsewhere to upgrade the O-line?

[OffensivelyPC]

We don't offer that much for a C.  That's just crazy talk.  I think the best option at this point, is try to sign a C via FA.  Possibly one of the other top rated Centers if they actually make it to the market, if it's less than or around $5 million a year.  If we can't do that, or that is out of Grigson's comfort zone, then a lower end C and hope Holmes works out for the best.

[throwing BBZ]

Grigson and his Stud Satele has warped the Think on this board.

Based on his Colts Record,  I am much more Worried about what our GM is going to do than Confident.

 

Holmes will be Good! Question is can he be like Saturday, play 15-16 games a season.
 

[Track Guy]

Center is the position I'm worried about the most. Mack is an astronomical expense. Brian De La Puente will be overpriced (he's not bad but I think the guard play next to him has made him look better than he is), It's still unclear if Evan Dietrich-Smith will hit the market. Jonathan Goodwin is a very shaky pass blocker in old age. For some reason there are a faction of people think it's important that Khaled Holmes takes over at C eventually, but I think there's a good chance given how awful our interior O-line was last year and how little Holmes played that he was a whiff. I'm not saying that's a certainty, but I don't want to hand the reigns over to a guy that the coaches think sucks just because we spent a fourth round pick on him.

[Gavin]

You want a quality Center then your going to have to pay some big money for one folks, Otherwise you pay for a cheapo Center then you will most often get cheapo ability, No need to be a tight wad with 40 mill in cap space

[Dark Superman]

If you think of it like this.. Say De La Puenta asks for $7 million a year..

So we cut Satele saving us $4 million..

It's like signing Puenta to a deal for $3 million more.. Lol.

[esmort]

With the transition tag applied to Alex Mack, what should the Colts do about the Center position?  Do they go after Mack, who will command something north of the $10MM offer he has from the Browns (possibly $11.5MM), or look elsewhere to upgrade the O-line?

 

Just because the transition tag is $10 million does not mean that is necessarily what a team will have to give Mack to get him.  All it does is give the Browns the right to match any offer Mack receives, and if they do not work out a long term contract with him THEY will have to pay him 10 million for the 2014 season. 

 

So we could still make an offer similar to Kalil's, like $8.5-9 mil/yr ... but Cleveland would have a chance to match it.  Can't poison pill anymore, but you can still put some "bitter tasting medicine" in the contract to dissuade Cleveland from matching.

 

This could actually be a good sign that Mack is open to leaving Cleveland, and is not as eager to "bring any offer to Cleveland to give them the option" as has been reported.  IMO this says he is not as high on staying in Cleveland as many thought he was (and really who would be).

[husker61]

if i was mac, i would take the $10m and be very happy. clev is crazy! that's way too much money for a center. they have set the contract bar way too high for him this year. this is why the browns are still going to be bad for a long time, nothing changes. i still can't believe the colts got fleeced by them!!!!!!

[BOTT]

Mack wasn't realistic to begin with

[BpG]

People keep throwing out that he will get 10 million per. That is NOT the case. He would get 10 million for THIS SEASON if he signs the tender. 

 

The only way he gets $10 million per year for an extended contract is if some team is willing to pay him for example 6 years for $60 million. My guess is that a team might send him an offer of something closer to 6 years 50 million plus a signing bonus. 

[Valpo2004]

Center is the position I'm worried about the most. Mack is an astronomical expense. Brian De La Puente will be overpriced (he's not bad but I think the guard play next to him has made him look better than he is), It's still unclear if Evan Dietrich-Smith will hit the market. Jonathan Goodwin is a very shaky pass blocker in old age. For some reason there are a faction of people think it's important that Khaled Holmes takes over at C eventually, but I think there's a good chance given how awful our interior O-line was last year and how little Holmes played that he was a whiff. I'm not saying that's a certainty, but I don't want to hand the reigns over to a guy that the coaches think sucks just because we spent a fourth round pick on him.

 

I'm with you I'm not sure what the love affair with Holmes is.  He hung around on the roster but he got very little playing time even with all the injuries we went through.  

 

Until I see something different I just don't think this guy is starting material.  

[Coffeedrinker]

Smart move by Cleveland.  Not only does it give them time to work out a long term deal but it also let's them and Mack see what other teams would be willing to pay him.  Since the Browns will not get any compensation if Mack signs with another team, they obviously have no plans on letting him walk.

[Iancolts]

Next center would be puenta

[Le Neon]

Kinda with BpG on this one. A team could sign him to an offer sheet for any amount above or below 10 mil per year, Browns just have the right to match that offer.

The question becomes will anyone bother to make an offer, given how likely the Browns are to match.

[BpG]

Kinda with BpG on this one. A team could sign him to an offer sheet for any amount above or below 10 mil per year, Browns just have the right to match that offer.

The question becomes will anyone bother to make an offer, given how likely the Browns are to match.

 

I'm guessing no, but I am hoping yes. I don't want to pay a center 10m for this season and I'm not so sure that he would negotiate a long term deal knowing he is due 10m for one season. 

[dw49]

Smart move by Cleveland.  Not only does it give them time to work out a long term deal but it also let's them and Mack see what other teams would be willing to pay him.  Since the Browns will not get any compensation if Mack signs with another team, they obviously have no plans on letting him walk.

 

 

Yeah , it's really a no brainer for Cleveland if they figured out that Mack wanted to test the open market. Would be a questionable move if they had a good shot at resigning him before the free agent period opened up. Absolutely nothing for them to lose but a chance of over paying mack for the 2014 season. With the cap room they have and considering the shaky interior O line they have , it would still be smart to at least keep him another year .. even at the 10 mill. 

[husker61]

I'm guessing no, but I am hoping yes. I don't want to pay a center 10m for this season and I'm not so sure that he would negotiate a long term deal knowing he is due 10m for one season. 

 

that is basically what i posted. the browns backed themselves into a corner with a bad decision again. they just gave him his big signing bonus, and he can come back for more next year. next they will reach for manziel or some other qb, you just know it will happen.

[BpG]

that is basically what i posted. the browns backed themselves into a corner with a bad decision again. they just gave him his big signing bonus, and he can come back for more next year. next they will reach for manziel or some other qb, you just know it will happen.

 

How is retaining one of your best players a bad decision?

[husker61]

How is retaining one of your best players a bad decision?

 

it's one year! what are they going to do next year with him? it's just a bigger problem for them. you can't build a team on one year contracts. you have to have long term certainty. at some point they will have to compete against other teams for his services, better sooner than later. they just gave him a signing bonus without a long term deal. next year he will get another one from someone. what did they gain? he isn't going to get them to the sb this year. they need a long term plan.

 

i said the colts tagging mcafee was a terrible decision for the same reasons. this allong with the tr and hughes trade have me on the fence about grigson, time will tell with his drafts.

[BpG]

it's one year! what are they going to do next year with him? it's just a bigger problem for them. you can't build a team on one year contracts. you have to have long term certainty. at some point they will have to compete against other teams for his services, better sooner than later. they just gave him a signing bonus without a long term deal. next year he will get another one from someone. what did they gain? he isn't going to get them to the sb this year. they need a long term plan.

 

i said the colts tagging mcafee was a terrible decision for the same reasons. this allong with the tr and hughes trade have me on the fence about grigson, time will tell with his drafts.

 

You're acting like we didn't try to sign him to a long term deal. It was Mack's decision to not sign, so we did what we had to to retain him. 

[jvan1973]

You're acting like we didn't try to sign him to a long term deal. It was Mack's decision to not sign, so we did what we had to to retain him.

Pay him 10 million this year so he can walk next year.

[BpG]

Pay him 10 million this year so he can walk next year.

 

Or just let him walk this year. How are you not understanding this?

[Coffeedrinker]

that is basically what i posted. the browns backed themselves into a corner with a bad decision again. they just gave him his big signing bonus, and he can come back for more next year. next they will reach for manziel or some other qb, you just know it will happen.

Why do you think they will not still sign him to a long term deal?  All the Transition tag does is prevent Mack from becoming a FA.  They still have plenty of time to work out a long term deal and from the article I read, Mack didn't want to sign a long term contract until he had a chance to sit down with the new front office.  The transition tag gives them the time to do that, with the added benefit of both the Browns and Mack may get a chance to see what the market is for him this season.

[Gavin]

Pay him 10 million this year so he can walk next year.

Im still not sure what the big deal is? you want talen.....you have to pay for talent...Otherwise your stuck with the Samson Sateles of the world in most instances

[jvan1973]

Or just let him walk this year. How are you not understanding this?

let him walk this year and save 10 million dollars you could use to pick someone up long term

[jvan1973]

Im still not sure what the big deal is? you want talen.....you have to pay for talent...Otherwise your stuck with the Samson Sateles of the world in most instances

If he walks next year you just spent 10 million you could have used to sign someone long term

[jvan1973]

Why do you think they will not still sign him to a long term deal? All the Transition tag does is prevent Mack from becoming a FA. They still have plenty of time to work out a long term deal and from the article I read, Mack didn't want to sign a long term contract until he had a chance to sit down with the new front office. The transition tag gives them the time to do that, with the added benefit of both the Browns and Mack may get a chance to see what the market is for him this season.

What front office is going to spend any time offering him a contract?

[Gavin]

If he walks next year you just spent 10 million you could have used to sign someone long term

Yeah, Samson Satele

[jvan1973]

Yeah, Samson Satele

Jesus, there is a lot of middle ground between Mack and Satele

[Dustin]

Yeah, Samson Satele

 

Right, because there is absolutely nobody in between those 2 guys. /s 

[Gavin]

Jesus, there is a lot of middle ground between Mack and Satele

what Center are they going to sign long term thats available currently?

[jvan1973]

what Center are they going to sign long term thats available currently?

Evan Dietrich-Smith Brian de la Puente or draft Marcus Martin

[Gavin]

Evan Dietrich-Smith Brian de la Puente or draft Marcus Martin

Dietrich Smith is a long shot to be released, De La Puente while he would certainly be a big upgrade here Indy he was helped quite a bit by good Guard......He is not a Center thats going to blow a DT off the ball and consistently move anyone, Martin is alright but not a mauler by any stretch(Neither is Mack), Fairly athletic.....Not close to Mack in that regard. He also struggles to his target at the 2nd level.......Upgrade over Satele but a serviceable Center at best in my opinion is his ceiling who has a much better chance at being a solid Back up Center then long term starter

[jvan1973]

Dietrich Smith is a long shot to be released, De La Puente while he would certainly be a big upgrade here Indy he was helped quite a bit by good Guard......He is not a Center thats going to blow a DT off the ball and consistently move anyone, Martin is alright but not a mauler by any stretch(Neither is Mack), Fairly athletic.....Not close to Mack in that regard. He also struggles to his target at the 2nd level.......Upgrade over Satele but a serviceable Center at best in my opinion is his ceiling who has a much better chance at being a solid Back up Center then long term starter

So giving a guy 10 million for one season makes more

sence to you? A rebuilding year at that.

Also, dietrich smith doesn't have to be released, he is a free agent and can sign anywhere

[Gavin]

So giving a guy 10 million for one season makes more

sence to you? A rebuilding year at that.

They need a QB and another WR or 2 and an ILB, They dont need to tear the whole team down.

[jvan1973]

They need a QB and another WR or 2 and an ILB, They dont need to tear the whole team down.

Yeah, great qbs are easy to find..

[Gavin]

Yeah, great qbs are easy to find..

Same can be said for O Linemen

[jvan1973]

Same can be said for O Linemen

But its easier to win with a serviceable center than a serviceable QB

[Track Guy]

Dietrich Smith is a long shot to be released, De La Puente while he would certainly be a big upgrade here Indy he was helped quite a bit by good Guard......He is not a Center thats going to blow a DT off the ball and consistently move anyone, Martin is alright but not a mauler by any stretch(Neither is Mack), Fairly athletic.....Not close to Mack in that regard. He also struggles to his target at the 2nd level.......Upgrade over Satele but a serviceable Center at best in my opinion is his ceiling who has a much better chance at being a solid Back up Center then long term starter

 

I supported bringing in De La Puente for a while but I think his market value could be inflated as yes, he is next to very good guard play. He'd still be a nice upgrade over Satele. 

 

Martin could play for us, but I'd also be heavily considering Weston Richburg if we went the draft route. 

 

Evan Dietrich-Smith apparently cleaned out his locker at the end of the season and didn't really say he wanted to stay in Green Bay, instead opted to say business is business. It could be just his way of playing hardball and getting a pay day from the Packers, but it sounds like a guy we'd have a shot at bringing in. Since we have good cap room this year and lots of impending free agents to re-sign in the next couple years, I would favor offering Dietrich-Smith a good front loaded 3 - 4 year deal.

[AgentOrange]

But its easier to win with a serviceable center than a serviceable QB

 

Browns were 3-0 in Brian Hoyer's starts this year before his injury (and 1-12 when anyone else started). I have a feeling they are more than comfortable going into the season with Hoyer as the #1 QB, regardless of who they draft.

Furthermore, signing Mack doesn't preclude them from getting another QB.