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OldManP

"Is he the greatest quarterback of all-time or isn’t he?"

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Sorry folks.  Manning is not the greatest QB of all time.  Not his fault that he was born AFTER Unitas.  BUT it is his fault he could not CLEARLY eclipse Tom Brady.

First year with an entirely different team = #1 seed.

Second year on new team = #1 seed and smashes all of the offensive numbers in to oblivion. Could potentially win the Superbowl with said team.

 

 

The closest comparison is the one hailed by many as the GOAT QB (Montana). He and the Chiefs made it to the AFC Championship game one year and went one and done in the wild card the next. They weren't the #1 seed either year, and he didn't put up nearly as impressive a show. The Chiefs were largely a defensive team.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season  

 

To be fair Joe was injured at one point, but I'd say coming back from four neck surgeries and having a "noodle arm" at least breaks even. He's done pretty well for a guy who many claimed would never play again. Imagine how he'd look on a good team like Denver if he DIDN'T have a noodle arm?

 

Joe was still a great QB when not on the 49'ers of course, but he alone didn't win those four rings. Compared to past glory, Joe went out with a whimper on the Chiefs. The 49'ers, meanwhile, continued on with another great QB in Steve Young and the San Francisco 49'ers, a great team, continued to win championships.

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Gee, who would have thought the Baltimore guy would have this opinion?

Honestly, Unitas is the all-time quarterback who set all the trends. Look , you guys all know I really like Peyton whether I'm from Baltimore, or not. Even though he's dealt the Ravens some harsh blows, there is complete respect and appreciation for how he plays the game. He is a top 5 quarterback, and the final book hasn't been written on him. He has to win this Super Bowl though. It is critical to his legacy.

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So if a QB went and played for a different team every three years, but broke all kinds of records over the course of his career and won a bunch of titles, he couldn't be considered the best QB of all time? Simply because he'd never be considered the best QB of any of the teams he played for? I don't know about that...

 

It's arguable whether Manning or Unitas is the best Colts QB of all time; Elway obviously will be above Manning in the Broncos hierarchy. But overall body of work, is a different story.

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So if a QB went and played for a different team every three years, but broke all kinds of records over the course of his career and won a bunch of titles, he couldn't be considered the best QB of all time? Simply because he'd never be considered the best QB of any of the teams he played for? I don't know about that...

 

It's arguable whether Manning or Unitas is the best Colts QB of all time; Elway obviously will be above Manning in the Broncos hierarchy. But overall body of work, is a different story.

If Manning wins, he is definately over Elway overall. Elway has a longer association with Denver as a player , and now executive. Manning just needs a title or two to round out his career. He has most of the other areas covered , stats , MVP's, and the like .

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Sorry folks. Manning is not the greatest QB of all time. Not his fault that he was born AFTER Unitas. BUT it is his fault he could not CLEARLY eclipse Tom Brady.

Manning is by far the better qb.

Numbers don't lie

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If Manning wins, he is definately over Elway overall. Elway has a longer association with Denver as a player , and now executive. Manning just needs a title or two to round out his career. He has most of the other areas covered , stats , MVP's, and the like .

 

I reject that narrative. This one game doesn't change what Manning has done in the other 260 games he's played. If the Broncos win, it's another credit to Manning's resume, sure. But it doesn't make or break him.

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I reject that narrative. This one game doesn't change what Manning has done in the other 260 games he's played. If the Broncos win, it's another credit to Manning's resume, sure. But it doesn't make or break him.

You are in the minority on that one. One Super Bowl win in 15 seasons will not make you the GOAT. Multiple Super Bowl wins is what he needs. It is clearly a must. The greatest quarterbacks are expected to lead teams to Championships.

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You are in the minority on that one. One Super Bowl win in 15 seasons will not make you the GOAT. Multiple Super Bowl wins is what he needs. It is clearly a must. The greatest quarterbacks are expected to lead teams to Championships.

 

I'm not calling him the GOAT. I think it's a silly argument all the way around. Maybe you can label someone as the greatest of an era or a generation, but not all time. And even with eras, you have to determine how to separate one era from the next. To me, Joe Montana was from a previous era than Manning and Brady. But those comparisons make a lot more sense than Manning vs. Unitas.

 

As for Manning's resume, again, another SB would be great for him. But if the Broncos lose, it doesn't change what Manning has already done. I have never agreed with the idea that one game should have so much meaning. I'm obviously in the minority, but that doesn't bother me. 

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You are in the minority on that one. One Super Bowl win in 15 seasons will not make you the GOAT. Multiple Super Bowl wins is what he needs. It is clearly a must. The greatest quarterbacks are expected to lead teams to Championships.

 

I actually agree on the GOAT part with multiple rings. Right now, objectively speaking, Peyton is a top 5 all time that can inch towards the top 2 or 3 if he gets multiple SB rings.

 

But like Elway said "that GOAT conversation is NEVER going to go away". 10-15 years from now, there might be another Brady-Peyton like conversation with other QBs possibly. We will constantly be comparing QBs of different eras and will never have 1 single answer.

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"Is he the greatest quarterback of all-time or isn’t he?

Hard to say but don’t you have to be the greatest quarterback in your own team’s history first to accomplish that?"

 

http://bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/ron_borges/2014/01/borges_manning_not_even_franchises_top_qb_thanks_to_unitas

 

thanks for posting and it was an interesting read . . . I know it sounds crazy that how can a person with Peyton's resume be #2 for two different teams . . . well if you are of the opinion that Peyton is behind Elway and Unitas anyways then it is really just a play of words of you will . . . just to pick a number if one were to think he was say #6 overall and two of the persons in front of him happened to be Unitas and Elway then there is only so much one can do . . .

 

on the flip side if he played for Seattle and Oakland, he would be #1 in both case and so on . . . it is just a quirky way at looking at it . . .

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I reject that narrative. This one game doesn't change what Manning has done in the other 260 games he's played. If the Broncos win, it's another credit to Manning's resume, sure. But it doesn't make or break him.

 

no one game does not change the narrative all that much . . . but if he wins it helps his cause . . . but if he does not win he has already helped his cause to date this year . . . he has another AFC Championship in his pocket (not to mention a 5th MV) that he can add to his overall legacy . . . and if he looses tomorrow, but comes back and say gets to the AFCCG next year and wins the SB in two years, then you have this year's work to add to his overall work, win or lose . . .  

 

as side note, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner on the other thread about early and late exits from the playoffs, yes I agree that some of his are not his fault . . . but I do still stand by the notion that if you in the tournament late and even if you don't win . . . late runs meet something to me, at least in the fact that you won a few games, and depending on the lost, if it is close one that factors too . . .

 

so for me Peyton has a 3rd AFC Championship that he can use to add to his legacy which will hopefully include next few years . . .

 

but agreed one game doesn't leap frog you up or down many rungs in the latter, it still a 260 game legacy and 13 playoff legacy and the good thing was Peyton has added another late run to this 13 time playoff history . . .

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I definately think a third AFC Championship adds to the resume , as does the MVP. However , look how Jim Kelly looks with four Super Bowl failures with the Bills. A win by Peyton puts a much brighter perspective on his overall resume. He would be 12-11 in playoff games, and 2-1 in Super Bowls. Add that to his already loaded resume , and it's even more formidable . 11-12 and 1-2 just don't look as good with the rest of the record.

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Unitas - 5 times 1st team All Pro, 10 Pro Bowls, 3 MVP

Elway - 9 Pro Bowls, 1 MVP

Manning - 7 times 1st team All Pro, 13 Pro Bowls, 5 MVP

 

I honestly fail to see any measure other than a ridiculous count of championships by which Manning is not superior to the other two players.

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You are in the minority on that one. One Super Bowl win in 15 seasons will not make you the GOAT. Multiple Super Bowl wins is what he needs. It is clearly a must. The greatest quarterbacks are expected to lead teams to Championships.

 

Defense wins championships.  Quartebacking has nothing to do with defense.

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It is just silly. Unitas is probably the most historically significant QB because of the way he changed the position. Elway holds the hearts of Broncos fans. But that doesn't mean that Peyton isn't just as good if not better.

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Unitas played in the tackle football era. Manning plays in the two hand touch era. Hard to compare them based on stats but both were great and both excelled without having the best supporting casts. Green Bay dominated much of Johnny's era and of course the Patriots have had great teams most of Peyton's era.

 

 

Not saying that Mannning is not a tough , durable guy , but players would be banned for life if they did to PM what they did to Unitas. I watched very Manning game until he became a Bronco and I watched a lot of Unitas. I would give the nod to Unitas but who cares what I think.

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I've heard some Broncos fans say that Manning is better than Elway, I don't know that Elway ever came close to doing what Manning has done this year.

 

As for Unitas, well, he's a legend, that's the only way you can put it. I think that Manning with another Super Bowl ring will have accomplished more than Unitas but Johnny U will always be a legend because he did so much for the development of the game and paved the way for the modern quarterback.

 

 

Different game .. even when Elway played it. I've watched all 3 guys play and Elway what did the other two guys , IMO, never did. He took three average at best Bronco teams to the SB. he just plain willed them through the playoffs. Granted he couldn't win any of those first 3 but they played teams probably at least 10 points better then them.

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Defense wins championships.  Quartebacking has nothing to do with defense.

Well, teams do. Defense is by far and large the most important facet of a team, though.

 

D can stop the other team from scoring and has the ability to score themselves. Plus they can get your O great field position.

Offense can score, but they can't play D. If they are on D then they royally screwed up.

 

Special Teams? Try to win the field position battle and make the kicks. Above all else, JUST DON'T SCREW UP! I'm looking at you, Vanderjagt and 2009 SB. Honestly though our ST's have stunk since the dawn of time. They've been better the past couple years, thank god.

 

Defense>Offense>Special Teams

Coaching is of great importance as well, and directly impacts all three phases of the game.

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I definately think a third AFC Championship adds to the resume , as does the MVP. However , look how Jim Kelly looks with four Super Bowl failures with the Bills. A win by Peyton puts a much brighter perspective on his overall resume. He would be 12-11 in playoff games, and 2-1 in Super Bowls. Add that to his already loaded resume , and it's even more formidable . 11-12 and 1-2 just don't look as good with the rest of the record.

 

Jim Kelly doesn't have transcendent stats. Good stats, but they don't stand out among his contemporaries the way Manning's do. That's partly why Kelly has no NFL MVPs. Not that stats mean everything, but Jim Kelly is just a different story from Manning. Still a great QB, which is why he was a first ballot HOFer, still deserves to be discussed among the greats of the last 30 years, but not on Manning's level when it comes to individual performance.

 

And the playoff record is a team record, not a player record. Which is why we really don't talk about Manning being 167-73 in the regular season, or Elway and Marino having more wins than Joe Montana, etc. QBs don't win and lose playoff games, teams do.

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I knew topics like this would be all over this board, but I figured what the hell, haven't had a computer lately so why not visit here while I'm relaxing with a cigar.

 

 

When Denver wins tomorrow, this whole board will be filled with topics about how he's the undisputed greatest quarterback to ever walk the face of the earth, and in other areas there will be a lot of pointing fingers at Irsay and arguing about how he cost the Colts a Super Bowl by not going over the moon and resigning him. 

 

 

Do I think Manning is the greatest quarterback ever? No, and it has nothing to do with me apparently being troll king of this forum or that I am a Saints fan blah blah blah or that I generally down right hate the Broncos. I don't think any quarterback in today's age qualifies for the greatest ever. I don't care if Brady has 6 rings, I don't throw him in that category by any means. I don't even think Drew Brees falls in that category.

 

 

I have a deep respect for those old fellas. The ones that played when the game was very rough and didn't get pampered with penalties to walk them down the field and back when defenses could actually do something. That's why I constantly stick up for Warren Moon even though he never even made it to a conference title match.

 

 

If I went by who I got to see in person, I'd probably say Joe Montana was the best quarterback I ever seen. People forget he won those first two Super Bowls without Rice, and used to be quite a scrambler before his injuries started to pile up.

 

Hell, my favorite quarterback of all time is Brett Favre. So yeah, go ahead and pop those interception jokes if you want, Favre had his flaws, as any other quarterback does. Manning certainly has flaws, but you rarely ever see it talked about. Every great quarterback has flaws. I don't care if it's the $5 billion dollar man out there, he's going to have at least one flaw, even Unitas had his moments.

 

 

I think these debates are really useless. Even if the majority agree that QB A and QB B are the greatest ever and QB X, Y, and Z are toast, it don't change nothing. It's still opinion. It's just useless debating.

 

You can argue all day about Joe Montana and Manning and even Favre's great teams, but who really cares? You probably will read this and think I'm totally nuts (I take stuff like that as compliments, thank you) but hey, it's how I look at it. If you went by me anyway you would have a very closed minded look on football as a whole, cause I am not really a fan of either teams in the Super Bowl this year, but for the sake of my new friends I've spent the past month with in the workforce, I will be rooting for the Seaducks just so I can see these few guys have a good time.

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When Denver wins tomorrow

Seattle aren't a bunch of pushovers. That's nowhere close to a given.

 

That being said, I agree that the outcome of the game has zero bearing on who the G.O.A.T. QB is. The only ones it matters to are "TEH RINGZ" boobs.

 

I also give extra consideration to the old guys who played in a munch different time/ruleset. IMO, Marino is the greatest to ever play his position. Extremely productive year in, year out while he got killed and constantly bailing out his god awful defense. Not to mention his receivers were molested.

 

With Manning's success on two different teams I might have to put him at #1 when he retires. He can win anywhere. Until he's done I have him at #4 behind Unitas and Elway.

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Manning certainly has flaws, but you rarely ever see it talked about. 

 

You made some good points here and there (LOL at naming yourself "troll king" of this board; sorry to bust your bubble, but you're not even first runner-up, pal), but this part really stood out to me. I don't know where you get this from. People nitpick at Manning's game, reputation and career all the time. 

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You made some good points here and there (LOL at naming yourself "troll king" of this board; sorry to bust your bubble, but you're not even first runner-up, pal), but this part really stood out to me. I don't know where you get this from. People nitpick at Manning's game, reputation and career all the time. 

 

 

I get called a trolled on any forum I go, and was regarded as Troll King on the Saints forum of all places which recently banned me (not going along with popular opinion means your a bad fan apparently), I know others think of me as a troll on here but I don't mean any ill will.

 

 

I was using the media's own terms of how they treat Manning when I said he don't get much nitpicking cause every report I see usually is stating how he's the God of football and can never do anything wrong. You deserve a like for calling out the inaccuracy in that statement but I'm just saying how I see it from the media's eye. I don't remember any big media outlet choosing the Saints in that Super Bowl. Even the newspaper that I worked for was picking the Colts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seattle aren't a bunch of pushovers. That's nowhere close to a given.

 

That being said, I agree that the outcome of the game has zero bearing on who the G.O.A.T. QB is. The only ones it matters to are "TEH RINGZ" boobs.

 

I also give extra consideration to the old guys who played in a munch different time/ruleset. IMO, Marino is the greatest to ever play his position. Extremely productive year in, year out while he got killed and constantly bailing out his god awful defense. Not to mention his receivers were molested.

 

With Manning's success on two different teams I might have to put him at #1 when he retires. He can win anywhere. Until he's done I have him at #4 behind Unitas and Elway.

 

 

Props for speaking of Marino, it's truly amazing to go back and watch clips of that old Dolphins team. They were stacked and re-loaded going into the 90's. If that team existed in today's age, Marino would have surpassed 5,000 yards a couple times and would easily have a ring since offenses are favored over defenses.

 

 

I know the Seattle defense is no push over but I have no hope for them. Even if they come out and play, I expect to see a lot of flagging, or at worse, the Seaducks own offense will be their downfall (what I expect). Only 2 QB's were sacked more than Russell Wilson this season. Denver's defense isn't even that great, and if they shut down the run, I don't have much hope for them.

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In any conversation of "specific player" vs the field, I'll take the field 99% of the time. A lot easier to argue against someone being the GOAT than it is for. Not that I do or don't think Manning is the GOAT or whether winning or losing this game determines it...doesn't matter because it will never be definitive.

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If Manning wins, he is definately over Elway overall. Elway has a longer association with Denver as a player , and now executive. Manning just needs a title or two to round out his career. He has most of the other areas covered , stats , MVP's, and the like .

 

That means nothing.  8 of his 11 playoff losses have come because defenses gave up last minute scores on a final drive.  How is that his fault and how is he to be held responsible for it?

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All this hair splitting over GOAT is tiresome. At this point, it just sounds like Peyton Haters doing advance prep in case Manning wins this game.

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OK, for everyone who says GOAT is a nonsensical idea.  Let's say hypothetically that the Broncos win three championships in a row and that Manning breaks Favre's career yardage, touchdown, and completion records along with Brees' consecutive games with a touchdown record.

 

How would the man not be deserving of the label then?

 

Think about this for a moment.  If he plays three more seasons at only 25 touchdowns per year he will have twice as many career touchdowns as Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas 

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A nonsense of an article with bad logic. A bad metric (number of Super Bowl wins by teams of 53 people that the player have been on throughout many years) is applied in one on one comparisons which at the end leads to a erroneous conclusion. If this was a scientific article the author would be disqualified by his peers.

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OK, for everyone who says GOAT is a nonsensical idea.  Let's say hypothetically that the Broncos win three championships in a row and that Manning breaks Favre's career yardage, touchdown, and completion records along with Brees' consecutive games with a touchdown record.

 

How would the man not be deserving of the label then?

 

Think about this for a moment.  If he plays three more seasons at only 25 touchdowns per year he will have twice as many career touchdowns as Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas

If he wins two more Super Bowl titles in Denver , perhaps he would be the GOAT. I'm not a Peyton hater , I think he's one of the greatest ever. I just think he has to round out his resume a bit more. I hear a lot about the NFL being a team game , and it is , as well as the Championships won. But the quarterback is expected to lead teams to Championships , especially the greatest ones. If you have a weaker defense that might let up the winning score, the greatest quarterbacks will milk the clock to prevent that from happening. The greatest ones make the big plays in the clutch, and don't throw critical interceptions . All of the great ones come up short once in a while, but when all is said and done, the Championship number is always on top, because that is everyone's ultimate goal. Peyton can take a big step here with a win. If he wins this one, and makes it to the Super Bowl in perhaps the next two years he plays, how happy will Irsay be for him then ? The Colts are like fans of all other teams now, having a tough out in Denver with Manning to get to your own Super Bowl. The Ravens were lucky last year, but usually Manning ended a couple of promising NFL seasons, especially in 2006.

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Well, teams do. Defense is by far and large the most important facet of a team, though.

 

D can stop the other team from scoring and has the ability to score themselves. Plus they can get your O great field position.

Offense can score, but they can't play D. If they are on D then they royally screwed up.

 

Special Teams? Try to win the field position battle and make the kicks. Above all else, JUST DON'T SCREW UP! I'm looking at you, Vanderjagt and 2009 SB. Honestly though our ST's have stunk since the dawn of time. They've been better the past couple years, thank god.

 

Defense>Offense>Special Teams

Coaching is of great importance as well, and directly impacts all three phases of the game.

This.

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OK, for everyone who says GOAT is a nonsensical idea.  Let's say hypothetically that the Broncos win three championships in a row and that Manning breaks Favre's career yardage, touchdown, and completion records along with Brees' consecutive games with a touchdown record.

 

How would the man not be deserving of the label then?

 

Think about this for a moment.  If he plays three more seasons at only 25 touchdowns per year he will have twice as many career touchdowns as Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas 

It's not so much a ridiculous debate, but as long as 21 other starters plus special teams players have an high degree of influence on the game's outcome....I consider the GOAT argument at QB a debate that is too simplified.

 

Purely results-based conclusions would have us point to, as was noted earlier, Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana as the best QBs ever. Well....we know that in Montana's case, Jerry Rice and others, and in Bradshaw's case, the nasty Pittsburgh defense had all kinds of impact in the 4 SBs those two QBs each won. And for the record, Otto Graham won 7 NFL championships and still holds the career winning pct. for QBs at .814

 

Now....if we want to look at the level of responsibility the QB in the debate has over the operation of his offense? Then yes....a comparative can be made, and on that level I would put Manning, Unitas, Brady and Montana at the top. Each one of the four are/were masters of pre-snap recognition and utilizing their weapons. IMO...they consistently operated the QB position better from that aspect than the next tier of great career QBs, but they still needed their team mates to execute things, right?

 

Plus, each one of them have also been beaten and humbled in playoff contests by the defenses they've faced. The Giants almost murdered Joe Montana in a playoff contest...Brady got mugged by the Ravens and we've seen Peyton exasperated at the end of several one and dones.

 

So I'd also analyze, almost as much, how they played in losses as I would how they played in wins...but the same holds true....far too many other players and elements factor into a win or a loss to ever come up with a clear, slam-dunk answer.

 

Just listen to Peyton Manning in almost any interview he does and count the number of times he himself uses the words "we" and "team".

 

And its not some false humility after a win or pinning blame after a loss either...its simply that no one knows better than Manning does how the other 52 guys on a roster, plus coaching, affects the game.

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This.

The Colts in 2006 and the Ravens last year didn't have dominant defenses, but won. Coming from Baltimore, I know how important defenses are, but I also know that the offense, and quarterback has to step up to win the Championship. With the quarterback position taking up so much of the cap, the pressure to win it all is inherent, and comes with the turf. You want to get the big money, get the exposure , be the focus, but you have to win Championships. It goes with the turf.

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Peyton is the greatest of all time and he never had the great defenses Montana had. John Elway was the most talented QB of all time as far as arm strength, mobility, pocket presence and he did more with less talent around him then anyone. Elway should be #2 behind Peyton because he took a team of average players to 5 superbowls. Montana left the 49ers and they were just as good if not better with Steve Young. Montana is great but he had the best supporting cast then anyone. 

 

My Rankings of greatest QB's

 

1. Peyton 

2. Montana  

3. Elway 

4. Brady

5. Marino

 

Most talented QB's

 

1. Elway 

2. Peyton 

3. Marino 

4. Favre

5. Unitas

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The Colts in 2006 and the Ravens last year didn't have dominant defenses, but won. Coming from Baltimore, I know how important defenses are, but I also know that the offense, and quarterback has to step up to win the Championship. With the quarterback position taking up so much of the cap, the pressure to win it all is inherent, and comes with the turf. You want to get the big money, get the exposure , be the focus, but you have to win Championships. It goes with the turf.

Pressure on the QB and operating the position amongst all the game dynamics are two different things.

 

You're 100% correct about responsibility and pressure at the QB position....no argument there....but there are still and always will be 21 other guys on the field. If the QBs 10 offensive team mates have a lousy day doing their jobs, I don't care who he is...his team will probably lose.

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Peyton is the greatest of all time and he never had the great defenses Montana had. John Elway was the most talented QB of all time as far as arm strength, mobility, pocket presence and he did more with less talent around him then anyone. Elway should be #2 behind Peyton because he took a team of average players to 5 superbowls. Montana left the 49ers and they were just as good if not better with Steve Young. Montana is great but he had the best supporting cast then anyone. 

 

My Rankings of greatest QB's

 

1. Peyton 

2. Montana  

3. Elway 

4. Brady

5. Marino

 

Most talented QB's

 

1. Elway 

2. Peyton 

3. Marino 

4. Favre

5. Unitas

All good quarterbacks but obviously has a new era flavor

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Pressure on the QB and operating the position amongst all the game dynamics are two different things.

 

You're 100% correct about responsibility and pressure at the QB position....no argument there....but there are still and always will be 21 other guys on the field. If the QBs 10 offensive team mates have a lousy day doing their jobs, I don't care who he is...his team will probably lose.

We all agree it is a team game. Unfortunately , a quarterback because of the inherent leadership in managing the game , plus the exposure , gets more credit or discredit for winning, or not winning, Championships. It may not be fair, but that is the judgement of most NFL historians and fans. It is always the number 1 criteria in any discussion about the greats of the game. Then you look at all the other records, awards, and accomplishments. Joe Namath isn't even in the discussion of GOAT, but won Super Bowl win got him

Into the HOF. Just look at his stats. It is just the way it is.

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We all agree it is a team game. Unfortunately , a quarterback because of the inherent leadership in managing the game , plus the exposure , gets more credit or discredit for winning, or not winning, Championships. It may not be fair, but that is the judgement of most NFL historians and fans. It is always the number 1 criteria in any discussion about the greats of the game. Then you look at all the other records, awards, and accomplishments. Joe Namath isn't even in the discussion of GOAT, but won Super Bowl win got him

Into the HOF. Just look at his stats. It is just the way it is.

Not at all. Is Jim Plunkett in the Hall?

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Plunkett didn't play in New York. There is no such thing as Broadway Jim !

He played in LA

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    • that guy is too short, has no wheels, and has to take a time out after every 6 attempts. will never make it.. nice jugs though
    • The facts.. a hung jury (twice) mistrial with most voters having sided for the alleged accuser/victim... both times.     She (prosecution) didn't drop the charges, the school (judge/jury) did.  She wanted round 3.  She wanted a full yes or no vote (4-1 or 5-0) either way, not we're split 3-2 so we'll just call it against the majority vote and designate as "Not Responsible" because it isn't 4 or more votes either way. - 'Case closed'.     There were questions (and other items) from the accuser that were never allowed in or asked in follow up questioning.  I think one of the changes to the Stanford Title IX hearing rules is to also allow an attorney to be not only in attendance but to also perform all duties of representation.  And an outside group determines what is admissible as questions/evidence, follow questions, etc...     At some level, it did, and many things at Stanford were changed after. At the  minimum, it was a mistrial x2, with no conclusive verdict either way. Then school (not prosecution) drops the case.   So she really needed to report this to both the school, and also the Police.  But with what evidence does she have to convince the LEO?  Guess the gals need some hidden body cam w/audio these days, like many folks do with dash cams (like me and my wife's cars...) and be their own TMZ...   Video, apparently the only way things get rectified anymore...     No worries, at least we know each others positions.  All is good.     Except to have (at some level) differing story from a another high achieving Stanford student about another high achieving Stanford student-   https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/california/stanford-university/admission/     We don't even know for certain they ever got the FULL story, but articles I've read suggest that the Stanford Panel repressed/disallowed many/most of her interrogating questions and supplemental follow up inquiries to be asked of the accused.  Unless someone directly asks her directly, how could you answer as to whether her whole story was even heard or not?   If you are not truly interested to fully know those answers, then you don't ask.  At least, that's my perspective.  
    • you and me both. the period between basketball and football sucks (base) balls. the only thing i'm enjoying now is the women's WC.   i'm still leaning towards thinking we'll keep 6 WRs this season given all the puts and takes. DF it TE-lite, Cain coming back from injury, PC a rook, TY coming off being banged up, Fountain improving, Roger's reliability and cross training..... and sheet might happen like Cain being pup'd and I think Fountain can spend another year on the PS.
    • and very hard to watch the D for all those games without him.... truly epic player with truly epic injury issues...   i know all teams go through injuries, but seems like we've been especially cursed with Sanders, Manning, and Luck. That's 3 of my five favorite Colts lol.
    • Ugh Hendricks sent to the IL, prospect Adbert Alzolay might be called up. Currently down 1-0 in the 7th. 
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