Polian's Comments on the Bill Polian Show [Merge]

[Moose Of Woe]

I think you're overstating the problems our team has had over the years. Yeah we had weaknesses and shortcomings (every team does), but I don't think you win as many games as we did if the team was 'not remotely complete' as you say. I don't think we go 13-0 in 2005 or 14-0 in 2009 without being "complete." We were easily the best team in the NFL in those years, despite not winning the Super Bowl.

2005: The Steelers were the best team. They're top 3 throughout a good chunk in league history. The Patriots were a close second that season. They just so happened to run in to their kryptonite Broncos.

2009: The Saints were the best team. Like us, they had/have a terrible D. Unlike us, they had/have a head coach and special teams worth seeing the field. Hence, they won the SB.

In 2009 our offense was very good, but not great like it was 2002-2005. The D was unreliable, as always, and we had the worst special teams + coach in the league. That is NOT a remotely complete team. So, we LOST.

We have never, EVER, been the best team in the league during Manning's tenure here. Maybe back in the days of Unitas we were at some point...certainly not with the more recent QB's like Harbaugh, George, or Manning though.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Moose Of Woe

[Superman]

2005: The Steelers were the best team. They're top 3 throughout a good chunk in league history. The Patriots were a close second that season.

2009: The Saints were the best team. Like us, they had/have a terrible D. Unlike us, they had/have a head coach and special teams with seeing the field. Hence, they won the SB.

I don't want to have that argument. In short, I disagree, but it's irrelevant. I think you're basing your "best team" status off of the playoff results, which is your prerogative. But you don't have to be a "complete team" to win the Super Bowl. The Packers were no better than us at running the football last year.

Regardless, my point is simply that I don't think a team that's won as many games as the Colts have over the past decade or so is as woeful as you're making them out to be. There are arguments to be presented against Polian, Dungy Caldwell and Irsay (I don't think there's anything wrong with Irsay as an owner, by the way). I just think your argument is, shall we say, overstated? An exaggeration? I get your point, even though I don't agree. But you don't win all those games over all those years without being pretty good.

[Moose Of Woe]

I don't want to have that argument. In short, I disagree, but it's irrelevant. I think you're basing your "best team" status off of the playoff results, which is your prerogative. But you don't have to be a "complete team" to win the Super Bowl. The Packers were no better than us at running the football last year.

Regardless, my point is simply that I don't think a team that's won as many games as the Colts have over the past decade or so is as woeful as you're making them out to be. There are arguments to be presented against Polian, Dungy Caldwell and Irsay (I don't think there's anything wrong with Irsay as an owner, by the way). I just think your argument is, shall we say, overstated? An exaggeration? I get your point, even though I don't agree. But you don't win all those games over all those years without being pretty good.

You don't have to be a complete team - just close to it to have a shot. When we had a D show up (even with still the worst ST in the league) we won in 2006 because the rest of the team made up for it. Hence, we had a remotely complete team for ONE brief period and won it. Throughout the season, though, we were still a horridly incomplete team. AGAIN.

The Pack had a meh running game, sure. Now consider they had one of the top D's in the game and a great passing attack + special teams + solid coaching to go with it. Pretty darn good team there.

And as far as all those wins go, they completely stop pouring in when ONE player doesn't suit up. What does that show? A whooooooooole lot of people have been riding someone's coattails and became complacent instead of building a GREAT team around a GREAT player.

If we don't overhaul the team and Manning comes back a shell of his former self, OR retires then dig in. All those wins that "the Colts organization" has brought us will turn in to a steaming pile of L's for seasons to come. (Unless we get Luck and he is, in fact, the next PM)

Call what I'm saying overstated, exaggerated, whatever. 0-7 and a stern possibility of 0-16 speaks for itself. (With MAYBE a win or two from the Jags)

Maybe another 50+ - <10 game when we get thrashed by the Patriots in a few weeks will open some more eyes. Unless I'm overstating/exaggerating how bad this team is the Colts' Organization has built..I mean..they can't lose another game like the Saints one, right?

Get ready for it. Have your barf bag ready because, unlike the Saints, the Patriots may not let up. And you know what? If it embarrasses Irsay in to finally DOING SOMETHING such as trying a different approach/starting over then I hope they light us up. This season was over before it began - let's get the ball rolling on getting a quality squad together. Destroy. Build. Try something DIFFERENT this time! Worst case scenario? It can't get any worse. Literally. That's sad.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Moose Of Woe

[Fx Stryker]

A bad season out of the past decade is unacceptable? Kinda harsh don't you think. I mean really look at what season tickets holders in Cincy, Detroit, Carolina, Buffalo, SF, Jax, Houston and others have had to put up with over the same last decade....

This is not a bad season. This isn't even a terrible season. This is a disgusting season. Yes, the Lions have had an 0-16 season, but they were bad before. A superbowl appearing team, that almost went undefeated may I add, drops of in a season and a half.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Fx Stryker

[Superman]

You don't have to be a complete team - just close to it to have a shot. When we had a D show up (even with still the worst ST in the league) we won in 2006 because the rest of the team made up for it. Hence, we had a remotely complete team for ONE brief period and won it. Throughout the season, though, we were still a horridly incomplete team. AGAIN.

The Pack had a meh running game, sure. Now consider they had one of the top D's in the game and a great passing attack + special teams + solid coaching to go with it. Pretty darn good team there.

That's kind of my point. You've decided that because the team's Polian fielded don't meet your criteria of "complete" that that means his tenure has been a failure, and I disagree. I think you know I disagree, as my thoughts on this subject have been detailed ad infinitum over the years. Either way, we don't need to do that dance again. I just think you're overstating your thought, that's all.

To speak to the Packers, they didn't have a "meh" running game. They averaged 3.8 yards per carry, just like us (they ran the ball a little bit more over the year, so they had more total yardage, but I think ypc is the best individual stat you can judge a run game by). They had a poor run game. They had one of the best defenses, and a much better special teams than us, and maybe a slightly better passing attack, all told. So they're closer to your ideal of completeness than we were, but they still weren't "complete" by any means. And that's what I'm saying: You don't have to be "complete" in order to be dang good, and I bet the best teams over the past several years have had significant holes in their attack. The 2007 Patriots weren't complete, and that's one of the most impressive teams I've ever seen. I don't think their Super Bowl loss is an any way attributable to front office failures, even though they had issues with their team that were present the entire season, but were covered over by their prolific pass offense. The 1999 Rams weren't complete. The 2000 Ravens, the 2002 Bucs, the 2008 Steelers (who had the same shortcoming as the Packers last year, with even worse pass protection). Being "complete" is a random standard that I don't think even the best teams measure up to, and as such, I don't think it's a legitimate criticism of our team. Realistically, no team is "complete." We could sure come closer than we have in some seasons, that's for sure, but I don't think that falling short of that ideal means Polian has been a failure.

And as far as all those wins go, they completely stop pouring in when ONE player doesn't suit up. What does that show? A whooooooooole lot of people have been riding someone's coattails and became complacent instead of building a GREAT team around a GREAT player.

We built a good team around a great player. Manning didn't win all those games by himself. He was a huge part of them, and whether he's the best player in history or not, there's certainly a case being made that he's the most important. It's a big problem that we can't win one game without our starting quarterback, but four of those games were very close, so it's not like we've been laughed out of the stadium in every game. It's sad that I have to say that, but all I'm saying is that the team isn't just Manning. It never has been, and even if we plugged the 2004 version of him in right now, there would still be other serious issues with this team that would have to be overcome. Not that we have zero talent outside of him, but we're doing some silly stuff personnel-wise and scheme-wise these past few weeks, and they've cost us wins as much as Manning's absence has.

If we don't overhaul the team and Manning comes back a shell of his former self, OR retires then dig in. All those wins that "the Colts organization" has brought us will turn in to a steaming pile of L's for seasons to come. (Unless we get Luck and he is, in fact, the next PM)

Call what I'm saying overstated, exaggerated, whatever. 0-7 and a stern possibility of 0-16 speaks for itself. (With MAYBE a win or two from the Jags)

Maybe another 50+ - <10 game when we get thrashed by the Patriots in a few weeks will open some more eyes. Unless I'm overstating/exaggerating how bad this team is the Colts' Organization has built..I mean..they can't lose another game like the Saints one, right?

Get ready for it. Have your barf bag ready because, unlike the Saints, the Patriots may not let up. And you know what? If it embarrasses Irsay in to finally DOING SOMETHING such as trying a different approach/starting over then I hope they light us up. This season was over before it began - let's get the ball rolling on getting a quality squad together. Destroy. Build. Try something DIFFERENT this time! Worst case scenario? It can't get any worse. Literally. That's sad.

All that might be true. Like I said, there are serious issues. I don't think that means that Polian has been a failure.

It might be time for The Polian Era to end. I think his decision to allow Dungy to name Caldwell his successor has to come under serious scrutiny. Several draft picks have missed miserably. I don't know why we cut Tryon, though it's not like he could fix the mess of a secondary we have now. Donald Brown and Jerry Hughes weren't good picks, even if I don't think they're busts. I could go on and on. You can certainly build a case against Polian at this point, but I think you can build a case against anyone after you take the worst NFL beating in 41 years. We looked like a MAC team against the SEC. It was like Appalachian State vs Alabama. You can call for everyone's head after a game like that. But I don't think Polian is the problem, and I don't think he's ever been the problem. Maybe we could do better. Maybe he doesn't have it anymore. These are questions that should be asked after 62-7, when you're 0-7 and looking as pathetic as we look right now. But I stand defiantly against labeling his tenure a failure, especially on the basis of us not having had what you would call a "complete" team.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Superman

[SoldierColtsFan]

Realistically, no team is "complete." We could sure come closer than we have in some seasons, that's for sure, but I don't think that falling short of that ideal means Polian has been a failure.

All that might be true. Like I said, there are serious issues. I don't think that means that Polian has been a failure.

It might be time for The Polian Era to end. I think his decision to allow Dungy to name Caldwell his successor has to come under serious scrutiny. Several draft picks have missed miserably. I don't know why we cut Tryon, though it's not like he could fix the mess of a secondary we have now. Donald Brown and Jerry Hughes weren't good picks, even if I don't think they're busts. I could go on and on. You can certainly build a case against Polian at this point, but I think you can build a case against anyone after you take the worst NFL beating in 41 years. We looked like a MAC team against the SEC. It was like Appalachian State vs Alabama. You can call for everyone's head after a game like that. But I don't think Polian is the problem, and I don't think he's ever been the problem. Maybe we could do better. Maybe he doesn't have it anymore. These are questions that should be asked after 62-7, when you're 0-7 and looking as pathetic as we look right now. But I stand defiantly against labeling his tenure a failure, especially on the basis of us not having had what you would call a "complete" team.

His inability to build a defense and maintain a decent O-line has been his achilles heel, and appointing his children to jobs within the organization has been his undoing. This isn't a conclusion I take lightly, I was extremely happy at the time when Irsay brought him in, it was time for a change and Polian did work some magic on this roster, especially on offense in the skill positions, I do believe that nobody is saying that he didn't make some great picks that initially left us all scratching our heads as to why but truly panned out and answered our questions and that consistancy is what made me stop questioning his ability, BUT he has fallen far since 1997/98, it's like he stepped over a cliff after 2006. The decisions he has made, the draft picks, his overall disposition to the fanbase. He has left us with a shell of a team w/o Manning.

The "complete" team analogy is true, no team is truly complete, but teams do address weaknesses and plan for the future. Polian has outright ignored our special teams, and how many times has this team been burned by that, I can pin our last 3 playoff exits directly to it. The defensive tackle position has been in shambles for years, Nevis is a bright spot now but still a rookie and is injured, we basically run a LB farm for other teams to come in and cherry pick our players, DE is a 2 man show and if one goes down it negates the other, the defensive backfield has been completely dismantled since just a couple of seasons ago when it was feared in the league and now they couldn't defend an all go pattern against Ball State. The O line is horrible, and this is truly inexcusable from my point of view, knowing that the fate of this team rests squarely on Manning how can he let the line, his protection, get this bad? He put the franchise at risk, relied on his quick release and field smarts to cover yet another glaring hole within the team composition, and this seems to be how operates now. I think he has lost it, Manning's greatness has allowed Polian to become complacent and therein lies the problem. Winning does cure alot of ills, but this team has been severely flawed for some time, and winning does not give a free pass for not addressing some pretty serious flaws with this team especially when the vast majority of that winning is the direct result of one single player's ability to overcome having a putrid defense and having poor field position because the rest of the team doesn't meet muster. He has had ample time to make this team alot deeper at key positions than it currently is and he has failed miserably at that.

[Fatboyslim11]

Eventually, Jim Irsay will cut in and stop all the Double talk and B.S. People will be fired.

Lets hope so. I have posted over the past 2 years on this and the previous boards that Polian and now his sons bear most of the responsibility for the state of our now sorry * franchise. Polian (Bill and Chris) are responsible for acquiring players and they have failed miserably over the past two years The Polian apologists and the fans that are only use to our (regular season only, we suck in the playoffs) success will harp on and on about what the more downtrodden teams records are in comparison to our (they only use regular season records and conveniently forget the postseason collapses) 10, 12 year record. These apologists will not/can't address tthe fact that very few of our players could play for another team in the NFL. That is an indicator of the talent level. Also when the few that do leave (Thornton, Washington, Giordiano...etc.) and have some success get bigger and stronger with their new team, Says a lot about the midgets Polian drafts and hope can stand up to the rigors of the NFL.

The Polians have the biggest ego in the NFL, Bill Polian craves the limelight and will not tolerate anyone in the organization that try to remotely be called the face of the organization. Peyton largely stays out of the limelight and the rest of our players are bland quiet (and mostly average to below average in size, skills and physical talent) types.

Our head coach and the coaching staff are the biggest joke in the NFL. Caldwell is the classic yes man and is so used to losing that he is the perfect * for the organization's failures. The Polians seem to love this part of Caldwell because it tends to draw attention away from their own incompetence and failures. For the Caldwell defenders - when Caldwell is fired will he get another head coaching job in the NFL? I hope not. Even clowns like Richie Kotite (possibily the worst head coach in NFL history) got another NFL coaching job (Eagles and Jets) after it was proven by his decisions, game management and coaching that he lacked head coaching skills.

Polian can spin it any way we wants to. Us Colts fans, whether we have been fans since the 1960s (like myself) or just became a Colts fans, have had enough of this foolishness. The reality is we suck from the front office down to our strength and conditioning and training staff (we seem to have the most "delicate" "players" in the NFL). I pray Irsay has the courage to get rid of the Vice Chairman, GM, salary cap guru and coaching staff and bring NFL caliber management, organization, coaching and personnel to my beloved Colts.

[Smitto]

Everyone has someone to blame here, but the blame falls on the whole team, players, coaches and FO... they have done a horrible job so far and some of them need to lose their jobs. The colts are naive for not making their defense better in the past ten years..

[jwilli69]

Just a fan. But a fan who understands how the Polians work given their history and the type of owner Irsay is. It seems that the fans here have a very short memory, as that the Colts under Polians leadership have done pretty darn well...

No< Peyton Manning has done pretty well, Polian just was along for the ride. If you can't or are unwilling to admit that Polian has made far more misteps over the past 5 years than good ones, you are in fact the one with your head in the sand. To let Tryon go and keep Tryon, to let Harris go and keep one of the other DT's is borderline weird, Chick over Hughes and on and on. We could add in there how he has managed the oline players, sign marginal ones and let the better ones go. He just hasn't hit for awhile. To be honest, Polians best pick out of the wild air was Edge because PM was a certain player here because Irsay wanted him. Harrison and Tarik were products of Tobi picks and helped make this franchise what it is with Manning, Polian has missed more than made.

Do the people who keep using this phrase know what it really means? I think it's really inappropriate and certainly overboard for the topic of discussion. Just because you don't think Polian is terrible and needs to be fired doesn't mean you're willing to commit suicide and their request.

Really, inappropriate? Seriously, maybe your girl panties are bunching you up cause if this statement offends you, you may need something to protect your skin from falling off cause it is thin

It's not a big deal until people like you make it one......

Exactly!!

[Jaric]

Do the people who keep using this phrase know what it really means? I think it's really inappropriate and certainly overboard for the topic of discussion. Just because you don't think Polian is terrible and needs to be fired doesn't mean you're willing to commit suicide and their request.

Yes I know precisely where the expression comes from. And like many things in popular culture the current meaning is very far off from the origin of the phrase.

Methinks you protest too much.

[Superman]

His inability to build a defense and maintain a decent O-line has been his achilles heel, and appointing his children to jobs within the organization has been his undoing. This isn't a conclusion I take lightly, I was extremely happy at the time when Irsay brought him in, it was time for a change and Polian did work some magic on this roster, especially on offense in the skill positions, I do believe that nobody is saying that he didn't make some great picks that initially left us all scratching our heads as to why but truly panned out and answered our questions and that consistancy is what made me stop questioning his ability, BUT he has fallen far since 1997/98, it's like he stepped over a cliff after 2006. The decisions he has made, the draft picks, his overall disposition to the fanbase. He has left us with a shell of a team w/o Manning.

The "complete" team analogy is true, no team is truly complete, but teams do address weaknesses and plan for the future. Polian has outright ignored our special teams, and how many times has this team been burned by that, I can pin our last 3 playoff exits directly to it. The defensive tackle position has been in shambles for years, Nevis is a bright spot now but still a rookie and is injured, we basically run a LB farm for other teams to come in and cherry pick our players, DE is a 2 man show and if one goes down it negates the other, the defensive backfield has been completely dismantled since just a couple of seasons ago when it was feared in the league and now they couldn't defend an all go pattern against Ball State. The O line is horrible, and this is truly inexcusable from my point of view, knowing that the fate of this team rests squarely on Manning how can he let the line, his protection, get this bad? He put the franchise at risk, relied on his quick release and field smarts to cover yet another glaring hole within the team composition, and this seems to be how operates now. I think he has lost it, Manning's greatness has allowed Polian to become complacent and therein lies the problem. Winning does cure alot of ills, but this team has been severely flawed for some time, and winning does not give a free pass for not addressing some pretty serious flaws with this team especially when the vast majority of that winning is the direct result of one single player's ability to overcome having a putrid defense and having poor field position because the rest of the team doesn't meet muster. He has had ample time to make this team alot deeper at key positions than it currently is and he has failed miserably at that.

As far as his "children," all I know of is Chris Polian, at least in any meaningful capacity. And all there is to officially judge Chris on is this year's draft and offseason, which I think he knocked it out of the park. There's no real line of demarcation as far as when Bill ends and Chris begins, but the indications have been that Chris ran the draft and made the offseason decisions, most of which I really liked. We could have gone harder after a couple safeties, even going back to March when the Rams cut Atogwe, but we expected Melvin Bullit to be on the field. Either way, I think Chris has done a good job in the limited amount of time that he's been making decisions. Still hard to tell exactly who is doing what.

I agree with you about what we've done at linebacker, in the secondary, and at defensive tackle over the years. Before this season, I'd agree with you about the offensive line. But I do think people take the past three or four years and over-exaggerate them, letting them speak for the last decade, when they really don't. At offensive line, our line was always one of the best in the NFL, through 2007. The year before that, we lost Glenn. That year, we lost two guards (Scott and Lilja), and Saturday was injured to start the season, and was probably never 100%. Plus, Manning was hurt and we had to take 50% of our running plays and play-action plays and scrap them because we didn't want him running down the line for stretch plays. I believe that led to Addai's injury, since he was running more draws (including the dreaded sprint draw), and getting hit by defensive tackles that our rookie guards couldn't block. Either way, our offensive line came apart overnight, mostly due to two defections and three injuries, not because Polian let it fall apart. And what he did with the 2008 draft didn't work, but he obviously felt a need to address the line, taking three interior linemen. I believe Pollak gets a worse rap than he deserves, but he's certainly not going to anchor anyone's line for years to come. Summed up, I don't think the offensive line issues have been as bad as people make them out to be. And we took significant steps to remedy those issues the past two years, letting Howard Mudd go, and drafting blue-chippers to play on the line. They're hurt now, but they look to be significant factors for this team going forward.

At defensive line, Polian took what you might call drastic steps, compared to what his usual MO is, by signing Corey Simon, which didn't work out long term, but really helped us the one year he was here. We traded for Booger McFarland. Those two moves helped us win 14 games in 2005, and helped us win the Super Bowl in 2006. It's too bad that two years later, we were starting Eric Foster and Keyunta Dawson, but that was partly attributable to Simon and Booger not lasting, partly due to PItcock suffering from depression, and partly due to Polian not doing enough to bolster the tackle position. At end, most teams don't have two elite pass rushers. Some don't even have one. I think we've been extremely lucky to have two over the past several seasons, and people complain because we don't have three. The difference between us and other teams is that we had Tony Dungy running the show, and Dungy doesn't like to blitz. Most teams manufacture a pass rush with creativity. We've always relied on our elite ends to do it themselves.

The secondary fell apart pretty quickly, again, due to injuries. But we've drafted several players in the secondary that just haven't played extensively. None of them fit into Coyer's system because Coyer's system is stupid. But I think we have players. Still need help at safety, although I liked Lefeged in the preseason. He seemed faster and a lot more decisive than he's been so far this year, but part of that is because he's been sharing reps with Caldwell, which makes zero sense. We need two starters at safety. Figure out who they're going to be, and let them play.

I don't think any team spends significant resources on special teams. I think most teams play more starters on coverage units, or have excellent special teams guys who run down the field and make stops. We've never done that. Dungy started using starters on coverage teams late in 2005, reluctantly, because we had too many mistakes. We had Darrell Reid, who was a standout special teamer, but you don't keep those guys forever. And we also spent little time worrying about the return game because we had an offense that didn't need great field position. Only game we've ever been burned due to field position that I can remember is the SD playoff game in 2008, and a great returner wouldn't have mattered in that game because Mike Scifres wasn't going to let anyone return a punt.

Anyway, this is the conversation I didn't want to have. I've had it a thousand times before. I appreciate you saying that you haven't reached this conclusion lightly. I don't mean to defend Polian, I only mean to say that I don't think it's his fault that our teams haven't won more in the playoffs. We've had good teams, good enough to make the playoffs, and then we failed on the field. That's my stance. I don't think a GM puts together a team that's good enough to win double digit games nine years in a row, but those teams aren't good enough to win more in the playoffs. I think lack of execution and turnovers fall to the coaches and players, not the GM. If they're chronic over a significant period of time, the GM has to make changes to his coaching staff and his players, but that hasn't been the case with our team. I think we've been good enough to do more, and that's why I don't think Polian is accountable for us only having one championship over the past several years. And I think it's unfair to judge a GM by saying "we messed up here, we messed up there, and that cost us championships." That's impossible to say.

I wouldn't cry if Polian got shown the door. I just don't think he's been responsible for the team not winning more, and I think it's overly simplistic to suggest that, in the NFL, a team can win 12 games a year for 7 years, 10 for 9, solely because of the quarterback. Regardless of how good the quarterback is. I think it's silly to say that Polian has just relied on Manning, when we have really good and even great players at other positions. Yes, we have holes; every team does. No, we're not "complete;" no team is.

[Superman]

Really, inappropriate? Seriously, maybe your girl panties are bunching you up cause if this statement offends you, you may need something to protect your skin from falling off cause it is thin

Exactly!!

Yes, inappropriate. Say whatever you want about me, think whatever you want about me. I just don't think this expression is appropriate. You can disagree.

[Superman]

Yes I know precisely where the expression comes from. And like many things in popular culture the current meaning is very far off from the origin of the phrase.

Methinks you protest too much.

The current meaning? It was only a few years ago. Dozens of people committed mass suicide by "drinking the Kool Aid." That's the inference when you say someone is "drinking the Kool Aid." I think it's inappropriate to equate someone who has a different opinion from you on a sports message board to a cult member who was led to his death.

I'm not the PC police. I normally don't say anything about this kind of stuff. I just think that phrase is thrown around without any real thought.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Superman

[Cain Marko]

1. No way any GM would bad mouth his coach on his TV program, no team would do that.

2. Caldwell isn't the problem.

Caldwell is a HUGE part of the problem.

[deedub75]

The current meaning? It was only a few years ago. Dozens of people committed mass suicide by "drinking the Kool Aid." That's the inference when you say someone is "drinking the Kool Aid." I think it's inappropriate to equate someone who has a different opinion from you on a sports message board to a cult member who was led to his death.

I'm not the PC police. I normally don't say anything about this kind of stuff. I just think that phrase is thrown around without any real thought.

I see where you're coming from but I think that phrase was around long before that mass suicide occurred.

[Cain Marko]

The current meaning? It was only a few years ago. Dozens of people committed mass suicide by "drinking the Kool Aid." That's the inference when you say someone is "drinking the Kool Aid." I think it's inappropriate to equate someone who has a different opinion from you on a sports message board to a cult member who was led to his death.

I'm not the PC police. I normally don't say anything about this kind of stuff. I just think that phrase is thrown around without any real thought.

Jonestown happened in 1978.

[Superman]

I see where you're coming from but I think that phrase was around long before that mass suicide occurred.

Jonestown happened in 1978.

I honestly didn't mean for this to become such a big deal. I'm done with it. I just don't like it, especially when someone says it about me just because I dare to disagree with them.

[Display name available]

Fact of life (in short)

• The Polians WILL be here next season and probably as long as they want
  
• Caldwell will MOST LIKELY be here next season and if that season goes like 8-8 or even 6-10, he'll be here the following season too - sad but true!
  
• Even IF we get the chance of grabbing A.Luck, The Polians will surely NOT take him, because they have faith in someone else who fits this team more....because the media and all us talking heads don't know anything...we are all in a parallel universe.
  

Darker times are upon us!

[GoColts8818]

Guys the Polian show is a PR move for the Colts they aren't gong to come out and talk about how awful they are even after they lose 62-7 part of their job is to put some spin on things. It's up to us to decide what is spin and what is fact. Don't be shocked that Polian didn't rip anyone on the show Monday, you don't sell a product (which is part of his job) to someone by talking about how awful it is. I am sure there is ripping and blaming and trying to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it going forward going on where it should be going on, behind closed doors.

Look is Polian part of the problem? Maybe but let's be honest his teams have had two losing seaons since he got here before this one and both times and showed he knew how to make a quick fix as they reversed the record each time going form 3-13 to 13-3 the first time and 6-10 to 10-6 the second time. He's going to get at least the chance to see if he can do it again.

I've heard lots of people talk about who they want if Caldwell is fired but who do people want if Polian is fired? I don't say as any kind of shot I am honestly currious.

[Jason_]

Guys the Polian show is a PR move for the Colts they aren't gong to come out and talk about how awful they are even after they lose 62-7 part of their job is to put some spin on things. It's up to us to decide what is spin and what is fact. Don't be shocked that Polian didn't rip anyone on the show Monday, you don't sell a product (which is part of his job) to someone by talking about how awful it is. I am sure there is ripping and blaming and trying to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it going forward going on where it should be going on, behind closed doors.

Look is Polian part of the problem? Maybe but let's be honest his teams have had two losing seaons since he got here before this one and both times and showed he knew how to make a quick fix as they reversed the record each time going form 3-13 to 13-3 the first time and 6-10 to 10-6 the second time. He's going to get at least the chance to see if he can do it again.

I've heard lots of people talk about who they want if Caldwell is fired but who do people want if Polian is fired? I don't say as any kind of shot I am honestly currious.

Mike Mayock (j;/k)

[John Dee]

A bad season out of the past decade is unacceptable? Kinda harsh don't you think. I mean really look at what season tickets holders in Cincy, Detroit, Carolina, Buffalo, SF, Jax, Houston and others have had to put up with over the same last decade....

It's not the fact they have not won a game, it is the FACT that Caldwell is simply NOT a ...

1 Good Motivator

2 Good in game tactician

3 Good with time management

4 Good with player development

5 .... Is he Good at anything as far as an NFL head coach goes?

He is NOT a leader, a "successful" NFL coach is always a leader.

Caldwell.... "hey Peyton go out and make up this 14 pt 4th quarter deficit we got" "we'll just keep playing Tampa 2 and try to keep em close"

Manning... "Roger that coach" "$^^^^$##*%##^&&"

What has Caldwell done that has seriously impressed you? He is not aggressive, inspirational, or demanding. These are all traits that a coach in "this" situation better have or he will be searching for work next season.

The Colts and Caldwell can turn it around, but it isn't happening by just "doing what we do" ... Some coaching needs to start happening or Indy is headed for 0-16.

And Indy media are talking like he has already lost the locker room. (and with a 62-7 whoopping just happening) I don't see how this team makes it the rest of the year.

[John Dee]

Guys the Polian show is a PR move for the Colts they aren't gong to come out and talk about how awful they are even after they lose 62-7 part of their job is to put some spin on things. It's up to us to decide what is spin and what is fact. Don't be shocked that Polian didn't rip anyone on the show Monday, you don't sell a product (which is part of his job) to someone by talking about how awful it is. I am sure there is ripping and blaming and trying to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it going forward going on where it should be going on, behind closed doors.

Look is Polian part of the problem? Maybe but let's be honest his teams have had two losing seaons since he got here before this one and both times and showed he knew how to make a quick fix as they reversed the record each time going form 3-13 to 13-3 the first time and 6-10 to 10-6 the second time. He's going to get at least the chance to see if he can do it again.

I've heard lots of people talk about who they want if Caldwell is fired but who do people want if Polian is fired? I don't say as any kind of shot I am honestly currious.

I would like

I would like to see Irsay give Parcells a run... but I don't think he's into the mix anymore. After him Bill C, or Jeff F as a coach. GM? someone who wants to build from the "inside out" meaning build up the O and D Lines FIRST.

But, this is what I see happening...

Caldwell fired if another flop occurs, and the sweater vest gets a few games as an interview. And I will not be shocked one bit if Jim Tressel is Indy's coach next season.

And personally he is a HUGE upgrade over Caldwell, how much of one? Time would tell.

[John Dee]

Fact of life (in short)

• The Polians WILL be here next season and probably as long as they want
  
• Caldwell will MOST LIKELY be here next season and if that season goes like 8-8 or even 6-10, he'll be here the following season too - sad but true!
  
• Even IF we get the chance of grabbing A.Luck, The Polians will surely NOT take him, because they have faith in someone else who fits this team more....because the media and all us talking heads don't know anything...we are all in a parallel universe.
  

Darker times are upon us!

"fact of life" .... this is JUST YOUR OPINION" And my opinion is that you are wrong on all 3 counts.

By the way, no guarantee Manning will ever play again, and Luck will enter the draft... and if he does, will he pull an Elway or Eli and say "no to Indy?"

Everything is completely uncertain and very FLUID.

[Display name available]

"fact of life" .... this is JUST YOUR OPINION" And my opinion is that you are wrong on all 3 counts.

By the way, no guarantee Manning will ever play again, and Luck will enter the draft... and if he does, will he pull an Elway or Eli and say "no to Indy?"

Everything is completely uncertain and very FLUID.

Time will tell...

[wordofmouth]

"fact of life" .... this is JUST YOUR OPINION" And my opinion is that you are wrong on all 3 counts.

By the way, no guarantee Manning will ever play again, and Luck will enter the draft... and if he does, will he pull an Elway or Eli and say "no to Indy?"

Everything is completely uncertain and very FLUID.

It's funny how people like to throw the word "Fact" around in order to amplify their point. You are exactly right, all are opinions.

I do think Polian will be back next year and, quite frankly, I think he should be. As 1888 pointed out, there aren't a lot of better options (that we are aware of anyway) out there. Your suggestion of Fisher or Cowher has coach/GM further illistrates his point.

[John Dee]

It's funny how people like to throw the word "Fact" around in order to amplify their point. You are exactly right, all are opinions.

I do think Polian will be back next year and, quite frankly, I think he should be. As 1888 pointed out, there aren't a lot of better options (that we are aware of anyway) out there. Your suggestion of Fisher or Cowher has coach/GM further illistrates his point.

Yep, I am fine with Polian... but I am not fine in this philosophy of ignoring the OL and DL. Games are won in the trenches "most of the time" and if Peyton is back he does not need to be throwing the ball 40+ times a game. That means "RUNNING THE BALL and STOPPING THE RUN" ...

oh well... time to go to bed... I get a headache thinking about the Colts here lately. heehe.

[HungarianColtsFan]

"RUNNING THE BALL and STOPPING THE RUN" ...

These are unknown words in Colts' universe.

[wordofmouth]

These are unknown words in Colts' universe.

But, we have improved in both of those areas this year. And look at our record. Obviously, our run D was non existant the other night, but so was everyting else with the exception of the run game.

We used to run the ball quite well until the line fell apart. Polian did try to fix it ( Ugoh Pollock etc.) but didn't have much luck. With the addition of Castanzo Reitz and co. I think the O line is on it's way up. The D line needs more help and a healthy Nevis.

[wordofmouth]

Yep, I am fine with Polian... but I am not fine in this philosophy of ignoring the OL and DL. Games are won in the trenches "most of the time" and if Peyton is back he does not need to be throwing the ball 40+ times a game. That means "RUNNING THE BALL and STOPPING THE RUN" ...

oh well... time to go to bed...

I get a headache thinking about the Colts here lately.

heehe.

Boy, is that right!

[HungarianColtsFan]

But, we have improved in both of those areas this year. And look at our record. Obviously, our run D was non existant the other night, but so was everyting else with the exception of the run game.

We used to run the ball quite well until the line fell apart. Polian did try to fix it ( Ugoh Pollock etc.) but didn't have much luck. With the addition of Castanzo Reitz and co. I think the O line is on it's way up. The D line needs more help and a healthy Nevis.

I believe it to You.

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I didn't have any chance to see Colts this season. Hopefully D will be improving too, and will be able to stop the run too.

[SoldierColtsFan]

Anyway, this is the conversation I didn't want to have. I've had it a thousand times before. I appreciate you saying that you haven't reached this conclusion lightly. I don't mean to defend Polian, I only mean to say that I don't think it's his fault that our teams haven't won more in the playoffs. We've had good teams, good enough to make the playoffs, and then we failed on the field. That's my stance. I don't think a GM puts together a team that's good enough to win double digit games nine years in a row, but those teams aren't good enough to win more in the playoffs. I think lack of execution and turnovers fall to the coaches and players, not the GM. If they're chronic over a significant period of time, the GM has to make changes to his coaching staff and his players, but that hasn't been the case with our team. I think we've been good enough to do more, and that's why I don't think Polian is accountable for us only having one championship over the past several years. And I think it's unfair to judge a GM by saying "we messed up here, we messed up there, and that cost us championships." That's impossible to say.

I wouldn't cry if Polian got shown the door. I just don't think he's been responsible for the team not winning more, and I think it's overly simplistic to suggest that, in the NFL, a team can win 12 games a year for 7 years, 10 for 9, solely because of the quarterback. Regardless of how good the quarterback is. I think it's silly to say that Polian has just relied on Manning, when we have really good and even great players at other positions. Yes, we have holes; every team does. No, we're not "complete;" no team is.

I appreciate your reply and I think that it is a pretty accurrate summation. It may be a bit too simplistic to say that all of the past success is just because of Manning, but what this team has shown in it's only performances w/o him say that is the case and he does make that big of a difference. Also I do blame Polian for not winning more, he always shuts the team down at the end of the season for "rest" if position in the * cannot be improved or reduced by winning and/or losing even after this team had shown it performs better out of repitition and not taking that break. This tactic has broken the rhythm a few times and it has cost them. As for the team as a whole, IMO, he just hasn't adjusted this defense enough and the team depth is razor thin. I just think a new set of eyes on this roster may do some good, maybe that person is Chris P., who knows, but this team needs to head in a different direction and the defensive player philosophy needs to change with the putrid scheme.

[NM_Colts]

I about wrecked when he said "The secondary has been doing a fine job!"

Seriously, is this man delusional?

Maybe he meant the Saints secondary. :cute:

[mahagga73]

No,he didn't really say that did he?You can pass against air and not be as successful as Bree's was.

[braveheartcolt]

Guys the Polian show is a PR move for the Colts they aren't gong to come out and talk about how awful they are even after they lose 62-7 part of their job is to put some spin on things. It's up to us to decide what is spin and what is fact. Don't be shocked that Polian didn't rip anyone on the show Monday, you don't sell a product (which is part of his job) to someone by talking about how awful it is. I am sure there is ripping and blaming and trying to figure out what the problem is and how to fix it going forward going on where it should be going on, behind closed doors.

Look is Polian part of the problem? Maybe but let's be honest his teams have had two losing seaons since he got here before this one and both times and showed he knew how to make a quick fix as they reversed the record each time going form 3-13 to 13-3 the first time and 6-10 to 10-6 the second time. He's going to get at least the chance to see if he can do it again.

I've heard lots of people talk about who they want if Caldwell is fired but who do people want if Polian is fired? I don't say as any kind of shot I am honestly currious.

A very fair comment. Now clearly we very seldom agree on anything, so this will not disappoint. I don't care who should replace Bill. But someone with more relevance and understanding of the current game. Not a 20 year old philosophy which is rapidly failing. I'd even suggest we don't need a GM, we need a team of experts who can select, plan and implement a decent front office operation. Dictatorship is not working. Nor is the worst coach in the NFL right now.

[dn4192]

This is not a bad season. This isn't even a terrible season. This is a disgusting season. Yes, the Lions have had an 0-16 season, but they were bad before. A superbowl appearing team, that almost went undefeated may I add, drops of in a season and a half.

I guess it's all how you see things. so we bite this season, it allows us to improve our draft position and provides us with a lesser schedule next year. Plus it means I finally get to see a home game live...sorry it's not all that bad...

[dn4192]

It's not the fact they have not won a game, it is the FACT that Caldwell is simply NOT a ...

1 Good Motivator

2 Good in game tactician

3 Good with time management

4 Good with player development

5 .... Is he Good at anything as far as an NFL head coach goes?

He is NOT a leader, a "successful" NFL coach is always a leader.

Caldwell.... "hey Peyton go out and make up this 14 pt 4th quarter deficit we got" "we'll just keep playing Tampa 2 and try to keep em close"

Manning... "Roger that coach" "$^^^^$##*%##^&&"

What has Caldwell done that has seriously impressed you? He is not aggressive, inspirational, or demanding. These are all traits that a coach in "this" situation better have or he will be searching for work next season.

The Colts and Caldwell can turn it around, but it isn't happening by just "doing what we do" ... Some coaching needs to start happening or Indy is headed for 0-16.

And Indy media are talking like he has already lost the locker room. (and with a 62-7 whoopping just happening) I don't see how this team makes it the rest of the year.

The only thing fans can judge a coach by is his record, there is no other way we have enough information to review him on the things you did. I go by the record and his record shows he should be back next year.

[dn4192]

I would like

I would like to see Irsay give Parcells a run... but I don't think he's into the mix anymore. After him Bill C, or Jeff F as a coach. GM? someone who wants to build from the "inside out" meaning build up the O and D Lines FIRST.

But, this is what I see happening...

Caldwell fired if another flop occurs, and the sweater vest gets a few games as an interview. And I will not be shocked one bit if Jim Tressel is Indy's coach next season.

And personally he is a HUGE upgrade over Caldwell, how much of one? Time would tell.

Why do you believe Tressell would be a huge upgrade? Why would Irsay want someone with no ethics and a lier as his head coach?

Edited October 27, 2011 by dn4192

[dn4192]

Fact of life (in short)

• The Polians WILL be here next season and probably as long as they want
  
• Caldwell will MOST LIKELY be here next season and if that season goes like 8-8 or even 6-10, he'll be here the following season too - sad but true!
  
• Even IF we get the chance of grabbing A.Luck, The Polians will surely NOT take him, because they have faith in someone else who fits this team more....because the media and all us talking heads don't know anything...we are all in a parallel universe.
  

Darker times are upon us!

I see no way either Polian passes on Luck. both understand the importance of a quality QB has to a team and no other QB is available or will be available in the next few seasons with the creditials of Luck.

[Jason_]

I see no way either Polian passes on Luck. both understand the importance of a quality QB has to a team and no other QB is available or will be available in the next few seasons with the creditials of Luck.

I really don't follow college football that much. I know of Luck

If youi don't follow college football then how could you possibly know that? Both Polians are smarter than to buy into media "hype". As I said in another thread, if they plan to draft a QB this year then they will scout each one very closely at the combine, bring each one in for private workouts and interviews, and do a thorough overall evaluation of each one. They will decide which one is the best overall value and determine, I would say primarily based on Peyton's health status at the time of the draft, where they are willing to spend the pick on QB whether that's #1 overall, later in the first round after a trade down or in a later round.

[Dustin]

The only thing fans can judge a coach by is his record, there is no other way we have enough information to review him on the things you did. I go by the record and his record shows he should be back next year.

How about bad clock management and a far too conservative approach? Can we judge him on that? How about the Jets playoff game last year? Do you think we lose that game if we don't call the Timeout? How about three straight runs in the last minute of the first half of the Superbowl? Can I judge him on those things?