The New York Times Weighs In On Grigson

[cdgacoltsfan]

It isn't just the injuries although that certainly contributes to it all. Every team has injuries. It really isn't a good excuse. 

Oh how cliche...injuries on a team in year two of a rebuild and complete makeover  are an excuse in my opinion. Becasue we are rebuilding we lack the depth of say... New England.

[Valpo2004]

I do agree, for the most part the entire 2013 offseason was just bad.  

 

Grigson experimented by signing spare parts, backups and role players from other teams and it just hasn't worked out.  

 

The 2013 is not looking good at this time, but some players need time to break out.

 

Even if T-Rich was better and/or gets better next season I still think we gave up too much for him.

 

Grigs also signed too many players that have extensive injury history and they have unsurprisingly ended up hurt this season.

[21isSuperman]

What was being said about Grigson when we kicked the crap out of San Francisco?

And Denver.  And Seattle

[colts_100nascar17fan]

Excellent article. I love it when facts are laid out in black and white.

[Bluboy]

It really is when you consider the number of injuries to key offensive personnel.  I know the mantra is "next man up" but the cold reality is that the next man up often is not going to be as good as the guy he's replacing.  If he were then he'd have been the starter in the first place or at the very least a starter with another club. 

 

So are you saying that there was no excuse for the 2-14 season when Peyton went out?  Can the Packers not look at the injury to Aaron Rodgers as the primary reason that they've been losing lately?  

 

Obviously no one is going to throw up the white flag and surrender the season because the injuries just kept mounting  up...but at the same time you simply can't expect the same production from lesser players and not take that into consideration when discussing the recent issues of the Colts.  

No, Peyton being out was not an excuse for a 2-14 season. The Pats lost Brady for a season and they still won in double figures. Polian didn't have a back up QB on the roster and that cost him his job and the Colts that season. Put a back up like Hasselback on that team and it is at least .500. Other teams have had serious injuries and they keep on winning. It wouldn't matter if the injured RBs were still here, they wouldn't be getting any yards behind that line. It would have kept Grigson from making a desperation move to get Richardson though. Many teams lose receivers like Reggie Wayne and they are still productive. So, no, injuries are not an excuse. It means that the team is not deep enough and this years draft has a lot to do with that. 

[Bluboy]

Oh how cliche...injuries on a team in year two of a rebuild and complete makeover  are an excuse in my opinion. Becasue we are rebuilding we lack the depth of say... New England.

 

If we had a decent draft this year, there would have been more depth. That draft was awful.

[cdgacoltsfan]

If we had a decent draft this year, there would have been more depth. That draft was awful.

Too early to tell...may have come out of it with 4 starters on next years team which isnt too bad. What team in the league had a great draft in your opinion? 

[BigQandTheManiac]

It is fair and well written. But the Jerry Hughes thing...come on. He was useless. What players do after they are released is irelevant to the club that let them go. Like Peyton, it was the right decision at the time, and still is. 

i agree..different players do better in different systems....he's just better in buffalo's system...

[azcolt]

Losing Reggie Wayne might have had more impact than if Andrew had been the one injured. Hasselbeck is good enough to win games but the WR corps is pathetic without Reggie. Did Grigson make some bad deals? Sure, but losing Reggie dragged this team down more than any of those moves.

[Bluboy]

Too early to tell...may have come out of it with 4 starters on next years team which isnt too bad. What team in the league had a great draft in your opinion? 

 

I don't pay any attention to any draft but the Colts and sometimes the Broncos because of Peyton being there. If four players from this years draft start next year, I think it will be a very long year for the Colts. I hope you are right. Werner won't be one of those starters in my opinion. 

[Warhorse]

This article is written perfectly for those who need to assess blame. And there are plenty. No where does it include and reveal teh effects from the loss of:

 

#1 WR for the season

#1 RB for the season

#1 RB for the season

#1 TE for the season

#1 LG for the season

 

If you are going to make a case, bring all of the factors. Walden was brought in to contain the edge, yet the article talks about his ability to rush the passer. Please, do your homework before purveying journalism.

 

My guess is Grigs didn't want to be named exec of the year last year, and he certainly doesn't deserve criticism now of grading without bringing all the factors who have put us at......well........8-5, owning the division, and an early path to the playoffs.

[Warhorse]

I don't pay any attention to any draft but the Colts and sometimes the Broncos because of Peyton being there. If four players from this years draft start next year, I think it will be a very long year for the Colts. I hope you are right. Werner won't be one of those starters in my opinion. 

So curious, how long have the years been for you since Peyton was released? You know....11-5 and 8-5? Excruciating? What were your expectations? For myself, and I am quite honest about this, I find us exceeding my projections quite well.

[Jason_]

No, Peyton being out was not an excuse for a 2-14 season. The Pats lost Brady for a season and they still won in double figures. Polian didn't have a back up QB on the roster and that cost him his job and the Colts that season. Put a back up like Hasselback on that team and it is at least .500. Other teams have had serious injuries and they keep on winning. It wouldn't matter if the injured RBs were still here, they wouldn't be getting any yards behind that line. It would have kept Grigson from making a desperation move to get Richardson though. Many teams lose receivers like Reggie Wayne and they are still productive. So, no, injuries are not an excuse. It means that the team is not deep enough and this years draft has a lot to do with that. 

 

So you admit that even without Peyton, that Colts team would have probably only gone .500 which is still far short than what they would have gone with Peyton.  So yes, the injury to Peyton did affect the record that year.  

 

btw, those other teams that lost a receiver like Reggie, did they also lose a starting LG like Donald Thomas, a starting TE like Dwayne Allen, a veteran RB like Bradshaw and an up and coming RB in Ballard?  You do remember that early in the season, the Colts were in the top 5 in the league in rushing right? 

 

I think it's obvious that we aren't deep enough but again this is only year 2 in the rebuild/rewhateveryouwanttocallit....they gutted the roster which lacked talent and are still in the process of rebuilding said roster.  We didn't have high draft picks this past year so we weren't able to select many "sure fire" hits like we were able to in 2012...which it should also be mentioned that the 2012 draft was about as stacked as a draft has been in recent memory.  The 2013 draft was far closer to "normal" than the 2012 draft was.  The mid and late round picks are going to take some time to develop, which is normal for rookies, especially those selected in the mid and late rounds.  

[Warhorse]

If we had a decent draft this year, there would have been more depth. That draft was awful.

Grading drafts in the same year they happened explains a lot about your stance. It is my opinion that it is too soon to grade anything, unless most of the players were cut. However, I can say with confidence that there are opinions about this team that are awful.

 

To each his or her own.

[Andy]

I think the article's pretty spot on, but he fails to put emphasis on the injuries the Colts have.

 

He doesn't even mention how with Reggie Wayne, the Colts were able to beat the Broncos, Seahawks and 49ers. Is is a good thing that the Colts need one player to do well? No, but he doesn't even bring that point up in his article.

 

Laron Landry hasn't been stellar, but he hasn't been below average and he's been making some plays. It's also obvious that he only looked at the stats for Walden. Walden is a run stopper first, pass rusher second, and he's doing his job stopping the run quite well, and he's obviously improved as a pass rusher.

 

There are few spots in the story that aren't really true, but overall, he has it pretty down pat. 

[Gramz]

Have to say, there's not much I disagree with there. It is what it is. It was a fair opinion and article.

[Gavin]

I think the article's pretty spot on, but he fails to put emphasis on the injuries the Colts have.

 

He doesn't even mention how with Reggie Wayne, the Colts were able to beat the Broncos, Seahawks and 49ers. Is is a good thing that the Colts need one player to do well? No, but he doesn't even bring that point up in his article.

 

Laron Landry hasn't been stellar, but he hasn't been below average and he's been making some plays. It's also obvious that he only looked at the stats for Walden. Walden is a run stopper first, pass rusher second, and he's doing his job stopping the run quite well, and he's obviously improved as a pass rusher.

 

There are few spots in the story that aren't really true, but overall, he has it pretty down pat.

Well to tell the whole story on when it comes to the 49er game they were without several of there star players

[NewColtsFan]

I was one for keeping Hughes..

Give it one more year before we throw in the towel on Grigs..

This stuff takes time and patience.

 

You first say one more year....

 

And then you say this all takes time and patience...

 

I think those two sentences contradict each other.

 

Given that he was the NFL executive of the year last year,  a bad year this year, and whatever he does next year does not exactly constitute much time or patience.....

 

Hey,  just sayin......

[Bluboy]

So curious, how long have the years been for you since Peyton was released? You know....11-5 and 8-5? Excruciating? What were your expectations? For myself, and I am quite honest about this, I find us exceeding my projections quite well.

 

They have gone well beyond my expectations too. Last year was smoke and mirrors, this year, those quality wins against good teams (some in their house) show great signs. The years haven't been long for me since the Colts are doing better than just about anyone expected and I still get to watch Peyton's artistry too. With that being said, I am not sure we will stay on a up trend. This draft will be missing our top two choices. Unless Grigson does a yeoman's job on the rest of the draft there won't be much improvement next year. The free agents just never seem to work out well (unless they are Peyton Manning) and I thing going there is trying for a quick fix. Even with the injured players coming back next year, I expect the rest of the division to catch up with the Colts a bit but probably not enough to be a real threat. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

The article is true, there was a topic thread on this yesterday surprisingly, this article is true but overexerted a bit. regardless we are winning & hopefully we play more consistent. Finally saw a spark 2nd half of the Cinn. game maybe it continues. I like Grigson but for all who annotated him the 2nd coming, I don't feel that way, not there with that one!

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I hate to admit it, but an awful lot of truth in here:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/11/sports/football/costly-moves-for-shaky-colts.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

 

 

ColtsHappy

The author has a complete lack of understanding of how a 2 gap 3-4 defense operates, and what our players' responsibilities are, not to mention we are 8-5 with 4-5 starters on IR, so this is mostly a junk article. Next.

[Bluboy]

So you admit that even without Peyton, that Colts team would have probably only gone .500 which is still far short than what they would have gone with Peyton.  So yes, the injury to Peyton did affect the record that year.  

 

btw, those other teams that lost a receiver like Reggie, did they also lose a starting LG like Donald Thomas, a starting TE like Dwayne Allen, a veteran RB like Bradshaw and an up and coming RB in Ballard?  You do remember that early in the season, the Colts were in the top 5 in the league in rushing right? 

 

I think it's obvious that we aren't deep enough but again this is only year 2 in the rebuild/rewhateveryouwanttocallit....they gutted the roster which lacked talent and are still in the process of rebuilding said roster.  We didn't have high draft picks this past year so we weren't able to select many "sure fire" hits like we were able to in 2012...which it should also be mentioned that the 2012 draft was about as stacked as a draft has been in recent memory.  The 2013 draft was far closer to "normal" than the 2012 draft was.  The mid and late round picks are going to take some time to develop, which is normal for rookies, especially those selected in the mid and late rounds.  

 

Sure, losing Peyton created a few less wins even with a very good backup. If Peyton had been healthy and playing that year, I think they go at least 10-6 and make the playoffs. Reggie, although very good, is an aging receiver. Bradshaw was an injury prone free agent. Ballard may be a starter or he may not. I would guess not when he returns next year. Dwayne Allen hasn't played enough to know what he really is so his loss can't be that crucial.  How good is Thomas? Is he an all pro? If he isn't, then I don't think that is a loss that should not be compensated for with players on the roster. The 2013 draft may have been closer to normal but how many good receivers did we pass up to take on a project like Werner who may never be a starter.  You just can take injuries as an excuse, no team does and all teams have them. 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

This article is written perfectly for those who need to assess blame. And there are plenty. No where does it include and reveal teh effects from the loss of:

 

#1 WR for the season

#1 RB for the season

#1 RB for the season

#1 TE for the season

#1 LG for the season

 

If you are going to make a case, bring all of the factors. Walden was brought in to contain the edge, yet the article talks about his ability to rush the passer. Please, do your homework before purveying journalism.

 

My guess is Grigs didn't want to be named exec of the year last year, and he certainly doesn't deserve criticism now of grading without bringing all the factors who have put us at......well........8-5, owning the division, and an early path to the playoffs.

True, I also find that the article lacked some expert analysis on Grigsons working conditions/job description that I touch on here:

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/24050-where-is-our-gm/?p=671740

[Coffeedrinker]

No, Peyton being out was not an excuse for a 2-14 season. The Pats lost Brady for a season and they still won in double figures. Polian didn't have a back up QB on the roster and that cost him his job and the Colts that season. Put a back up like Hasselback on that team and it is at least .500. Other teams have had serious injuries and they keep on winning. It wouldn't matter if the injured RBs were still here, they wouldn't be getting any yards behind that line. It would have kept Grigson from making a desperation move to get Richardson though. Many teams lose receivers like Reggie Wayne and they are still productive. So, no, injuries are not an excuse. It means that the team is not deep enough and this years draft has a lot to do with that. 

A few comments about this rant.  Manning being out is not an excuse for 2-14 that is true.  Using Hasselback as an example of a good back-up QB makes no sense.  I hope we never have to find out, but MH looked horrible in the preseason and, IMO is no better than Collins/Painter.

 

It's kind of hard to say that Bradshaw and Ballard would not have ran well behind the line when both of them did, in fact, run well behind the line.

 

I hate to pull out this word but it's completely stupid to say "many teams lose receivers," like Wayne and are still productive.  One, there are not many receivers like Wayne in the NFL... that is why he is considered one of the best, and two, of the few receivers like Wayne when a team loses that type of player the team feels it, no matter who they are, and three, the colts are still productive.

 

Lastly, yes it's easy to say the team is not deep enough but the reality is you can't have a probowler at every position and you can't have back-ups that are as good as the starters.  If they were that good, well, then they'd be starters.

[Bluboy]

A few comments about this rant.  Manning being out is not an excuse for 2-14 that is true.  Using Hasselback as an example of a good back-up QB makes no sense.  I hope we never have to find out, but MH looked horrible in the preseason and, IMO is no better than Collins/Painter.

 

It's kind of hard to say that Bradshaw and Ballard would not have ran well behind the line when both of them did, in fact, run well behind the line.

 

I hate to pull out this word but it's completely stupid to say "many teams lose receivers," like Wayne and are still productive.  One, there are not many receivers like Wayne in the NFL... that is why he is considered one of the best, and two, of the few receivers like Wayne when a team loses that type of player the team feels it, no matter who they are, and three, the colts are still productive.

 

Lastly, yes it's easy to say the team is not deep enough but the reality is you can't have a probowler at every position and you can't have back-ups that are as good as the starters.  If they were that good, well, then they'd be starters.

 

I agree with much of what you said except about an aging Reggie Wayne. If it was Reggie in his prime, I would agree with you. If you were not deep enough to prepare for an elder citizen like Wayne getting hurt then same on you. You have to know that the odds of this happening were much higher at his age. That is why he was signed to a short term contract. Yes, those runners did do well at the start of the season. Other teams made adjustments and that running game was no longer possible. I don't think the Colts would be doing one bit better on the ground right now if those players were available. As for Matt, if you compare him to Painter and Collins then I question who is really being stupid here. Preseason means nothing. Matt could be starting for several NFL teams. 

[Dustin]

They have gone well beyond my expectations too. Last year was smoke and mirrors, this year, those quality wins against good teams (some in their house) show great signs. The years haven't been long for me since the Colts are doing better than just about anyone expected and I still get to watch Peyton's artistry too. With that being said, I am not sure we will stay on a up trend. This draft will be missing our top two choices. Unless Grigson does a yeoman's job on the rest of the draft there won't be much improvement next year. The free agents just never seem to work out well (unless they are Peyton Manning) and I thing going there is trying for a quick fix. Even with the injured players coming back next year, I expect the rest of the division to catch up with the Colts a bit but probably not enough to be a real threat. 

 

We have our 2nd rounder this year.

[Dustin]

Sure, losing Peyton created a few less wins even with a very good backup. If Peyton had been healthy and playing that year, I think they go at least 10-6 and make the playoffs. Reggie, although very good, is an aging receiver. Bradshaw was an injury prone free agent. Ballard may be a starter or he may not. I would guess not when he returns next year. Dwayne Allen hasn't played enough to know what he really is so his loss can't be that crucial.  How good is Thomas? Is he an all pro? If he isn't, then I don't think that is a loss that should not be compensated for with players on the roster. The 2013 draft may have been closer to normal but how many good receivers did we pass up to take on a project like Werner who may never be a starter.  You just can take injuries as an excuse, no team does and all teams have them. 

 

Dwayne Allen played all of last season and was one of the best in-line blocking TEs in the NFL. I find it comical that you can say that the draft was "terrible after 13 games and then say that we don't really know who Allen is after 17.

[Bluboy]

Dwayne Allen played all of last season and was one of the best in-line blocking TEs in the NFL. I find it comical that you can say that the draft was "terrible after 13 games and then say that we don't really know who Allen is after 17.

 

You find lots of things comical. Yes, the draft was terrible and taking to TEs and one just because he played on your QBs college team was really silly. And, no, I don't think we know who Allen really is when he has been injured all of this year. 

[dw49]

Grigson front-loaded a bunch of the "bad" contracts we are talking about. If he wants, he can cut those players.

 

Next year will be year 3 of the Grigson era and a very decisive one at that. We could go up, or slide down. Either way, next year will tell us a lot about the Grigson era.

 

 

As it stands now , there are two contracts that he cannot just cut the player with no big cap implications. There is a 3rd in Waldron but that one vanishes after 2014 as his salary is not guaranteed past that year. Anyway.. the two guys are Cherlius and Landry. The first at this point in time is not an issue as he was overpaid but at least is playing as advertised. The second .. Landry is other than a game or two , been a very big nasty bust. Hurt a lot and can't cover. That one is not as you say... 

 

But....... One bad signing (as it stands now) is not a franchise buster. As I said in another post , I gave Grigson an A for 2012 and I'll stick with my D for this year. 

[Bluboy]

We have our 2nd rounder this year.

 

I stand corrected. I thought it was 2014 2nd rounder. What year is it then. It doesn't change the fact that Davis was not worth a second round pick in any year.....  

[Dustin]

You find lots of things comical. Yes, the draft was terrible and taking to TEs and one just because he played on your QBs college team was really silly. And, no, I don't think we know who Allen really is when he has been injured all of this year. 

 

I'm not surprised you don't know who Allen really is. It seems like you don't know what a lot of things are. Such as a prevent defense or a west coast offense.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Didn't we just win our division? He's been the GM for 2 seasons & the Colts have gone to the playoffs in both. I don't see the problem. I'm not gonna let an article in the NY Times bum me out, they honestly should be WAAAAAY more concerned with how bad the Jets & Giants are.

[Bluboy]

I'm not surprised you don't know who Allen really is. It seems like you don't know what a lot of things are. Such as a prevent defense or a west coast offense.

 

What is this nonsense? Of course I know who Allen is, I also know a prevent defense and a west coast offense. I have not see enough of Allen to have any real opinion about him other than he seems to injured all of the time. He has played 17 games and he has 46 receptions for 541 yards or about 31 yards per game. In 2012 he was the 21st rated TE. That says mediocrity to me. Add that to his injury problem and it would seem to me that we are talking about a bust draft pick. He "might" develop into something or he might not. Not what you expect from a high draft pick. Jacob Tamme produced better numbers last year. So, he can block but in today's NFL TEs need to be big time receivers. 

[Dustin]

What is this nonsense? Of course I know who Allen is, I also know a prevent defense and a west coast offense. I have not see enough of Allen to have any real opinion about him other than he seems to injured all of the time. He has played 17 games and he has 46 receptions for 541 yards or about 31 yards per game. In 2012 he was the 21st rated TE. That says mediocrity to me. Add that to his injury problem and it would seem to me that we are talking about a bust draft pick. He "might" develop into something or he might not. Not what you expect from a high draft pick. Jacob Tamme produced better numbers last year. So, he can block but in today's NFL TEs need to be big time receivers. 

 

Injured all the time? His hip injury is the only injury he's suffered in his NFL career.

 

As for his numbers, Arians didt use TEs as a receiving threat. Allens per route/run numbers were some of the top in the nfl, he had the lowest drop rate among TEs and was near the top in terms of yards after the catch.

 

If you honestly think Allen is anywhere near a bust then you football knowledge is lower than I originally thought, which is saying a lot because for someone who doesnt know what a prevent defense or a west coast offense is to lose even more credibility is incredible.

[Bluboy]

Didn't we just win our division? He's been the GM for 2 seasons & the Colts have gone to the playoffs in both. I don't see the problem. I'm not gonna let an article in the NY Times bum me out, they honestly should be WAAAAAY more concerned with how bad the Jets & Giants are.

 

The Colts might have been able to win the South with a 6-10 record this year. Would you still think just winning the division was progress? I wonder how the Jets and Giants would do against the Colts? 

[Bluboy]

Injured all the time? His hip injury is the only injury he's suffered in his NFL career.

 

As for his numbers, Arians didt use TEs as a receiving threat. Allens per route/run numbers were some of the top in the nfl, he had the lowest drop rate among TEs and was near the top in terms of yards after the catch.

 

If you honestly think Allen is anywhere near a bust then you football knowledge is lower than I originally thought, which is saying a lot because for someone who doesnt know what a prevent defense or a west coast offense is to lose even more credibility is incredible.

 

Hasn't Allen missed all but one game this year? I would say that is a lot of missed time for a second year player. The fact is he is listed at 21 as a TE. If you want to blame that on his coach (you sure have a lot of excuses ready) then that is up to you. Right now, we are not getting what a high draft pick should deliver. I will give the jury is out but it doesn't look good right now but if your expectations for a pick that high are as low as yours well, you probably think that Werner is an all pro.... 

[Dustin]

Hasn't Allen missed all but one game this year? I would say that is a lot of missed time for a second year player. The fact is he is listed at 21 as a TE. If you want to blame that on his coach (you sure have a lot of excuses ready) then that is up to you. Right now, we are not getting what a high draft pick should deliver. I will give the jury is out but it doesn't look good right now but if your expectations for a pick that high are as low as yours well, you probably think that Werner is an all pro.... 

 

Lol he had a season ending hip surgery. It was a freak accident. 

 

Btw, John Clayton thinks hes really good. I know how much his opinion means to you.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

My favorite part of the article was clicking on 'Standings' in the left sidebar & seeing the Colts' name with an 'xy' next to it.

[Bluboy]

Lol he had a season ending hip surgery. It was a freak accident. 

 

Btw, John Clayton thinks hes really good. I know how much his opinion means to you.

 

It is always a freak accident isn't it. How well do folks come back from that surgery. What makes you think he will make a good return from that surgery. I hope he does but I already had my doubts and they are even greater now. 

[Dustin]

It is always a freak accident isn't it. How well do folks come back from that surgery. What makes you think he will make a good return from that surgery. I hope he does but I already had my doubts and they are even greater now. 

 

Fine, because players come back from the same injury all the time.