The New York Times Weighs In On Grigson

[Jason_]

He was considered a raw player, even in college. His selection was based on upside. Hard thing for fans who want results now when a player is drafted for upside, and in the first round. Time will tell, but time is far from up.

 

It may just be semantics but I wouldn't have called him raw, I'd have called him inexperienced.  I consider guys like Ziggy Ansah, Dontari Poe etc to be "raw" players.  Guys that put on freakish showings in the weight room and timed drills but don't have much on field experience and/or production.  

 

Werner wasn't as experienced as many pass rushers that come out in the draft but he was definitely productive.  Werner had almost as many sacks by himself (13) his last year in college as Dion Jordan (5), Ziggy Ansah (4.5) and Barkevious Mingo (4.5) combined.  So by that account I would say he did lack experience because I don't think he played football prior to FSU, but he was incredibly productive while he was there, far more productive than his cumulative experience would have suggested he should have been.

 

The only reason I would have considered him in any way a project was the fact that he would be transitioning from 4-3 DE to 3-4 Rush LB so he would be learning some new nuances as far as having to drop into coverage at times and be a little more aware against the run.  And of course the transition was made more difficult when Sidbury went down and Werner became the primary backup at Sam LB.  He simply hasn't gotten as many pure pass rush opportunities as I think they thought he would.  He's still not exactly falling way behind as far as rookie production compared to others.  Dion Jordan only has 2 sacks in 13 games and I'd be more than willing to be he's had more pass rush opportunities than Werner.  Mingo has 5 sacks but has started 3 games and played in 12.  Ansah has 7 sacks but has played in 11 games and has started in 9. 

[dw49]

It may just be semantics but I wouldn't have called him raw, I'd have called him inexperienced.  I consider guys like Ziggy Ansah, Dontari Poe etc to be "raw" players.  Guys that put on freakish showings in the weight room and timed drills but don't have much on field experience and/or production.  

 

Werner wasn't as experienced as many pass rushers that come out in the draft but he was definitely productive.  Werner had almost as many sacks by himself (13) his last year in college as Dion Jordan (5), Ziggy Ansah (4.5) and Barkevious Mingo (4.5) combined.  So by that account I would say he did lack experience because I don't think he played football prior to FSU, but he was incredibly productive while he was there, far more productive than his cumulative experience would have suggested he should have been.

 

The only reason I would have considered him in any way a project was the fact that he would be transitioning from 4-3 DE to 3-4 Rush LB so he would be learning some new nuances as far as having to drop into coverage at times and be a little more aware against the run.  And of course the transition was made more difficult when Sidbury went down and Werner became the primary backup at Sam LB.  He simply hasn't gotten as many pure pass rush opportunities as I think they thought he would.  He's still not exactly falling way behind as far as rookie production compared to others.  Dion Jordan only has 2 sacks in 13 games and I'd be more than willing to be he's had more pass rush opportunities than Werner.  Mingo has 5 sacks but has started 3 games and played in 12.  Ansah has 7 sacks but has played in 11 games and has started in 9. 

 

 

Agree with all that but the "production" thing is pretty generous. Shouldn't you just say some of the other guys in the draft aren't exactly killing it  either ? I mean 1/2 sack is 1/2 sack. If he had one less he would be in unchartered waters. That said I'm of the opinion that he's showed at least some promise of being a good pass rusher. Do you think it might be a good idea if Pagano stopped with all the superlatives on some of these guys ?

[IndyColtScout]

A lot of truth yes, but only thing I care about is going to the playoffs. & Grigson is 2/2.

We do need a lot of work going forward though.

[Jason_]

Agree with all that but the "production" thing is pretty generous. Shouldn't you just say some of the other guys in the draft aren't exactly killing it  either ? I mean 1/2 sack is 1/2 sack. If he had one less he would be in unchartered waters. That said I'm of the opinion that he's showed at least some promise of being a good pass rusher. Do you think it might be a good idea if Pagano stopped with all the superlatives on some of these guys ?

 

I was just throwing up the numbers of the other pass rushers that were taken before him.  The point was, as you said, that they're not exactly killing it either even though they've played in more games with, I would imagine, far more pass rush opportunities.  And I can't believe I forgot about Jarvis Jones.  He went earlier in the draft, all of his college experience (to my knowledge) was at OLB so he didn't have to make that positional transition.  He's started in 7 games and played in 12 yet only has 1 sack.  I wonder if Pitt fans are calling him a bust already?

 

As for Pagano and his superlatives, honestly I really don't care what he says to the media.  It's all going to be 'coach speak" just like it always is.  I rarely listen to press conferences but I admit I have listed to several of Pagano's...more often for injury updates than anything else though.  

 

I agree with you that Werner has shown definite potential and he's shown improvement in the past couple of games imo.  The numbers aren't flashy but more often than not he's playing Sam LB right now and a Sam LB's stats are rarely flashy.  I think a lot of people keep ignoring that fact.

[Warhorse]

 I mean 1/2 sack is 1/2 sack.

So tell me, if you are going to draft a player or acquire a FA, one has 3 sacks, but has otherwise been nowhere near the QB all season, and the other player has zero sacks, but has been inches away 10 times, which player would you take..........I mean 0 sacks is 0 sacks, right?

[throwing BBZ]

It is fair and well written. But the Jerry Hughes thing...come on. He was useless. What players do after they are released is irelevant to the club that let them go. Like Peyton, it was the right decision at the time, and still is. 

 

True, except that he had a pretty good season for us last year. One less sack & 31/2 times the tackles than the $$$ Parasite who played the rush LB with No run stop responsibilities, for 1/7th the $$$.  at so many who hate on him. Fili is a good backup. hahaha! Angerer is ok in pass coverage. Castonzo is a solid LT. What a joke.

[dw49]

So tell me, if you are going to draft a player or acquire a FA, one has 3 sacks, but has otherwise been nowhere near the QB all season, and the other player has zero sacks, but has been inches away 10 times, which player would you take..........I mean 0 sacks is 0 sacks, right?

 

 

So tell me , did you read what I said about Werner or are you just groping at one line I made and trying to distort it ? Read all of what I said about Werner (isn't a whole lot to read) and then decide if your comment fits. Jason made the statement that "his stats were not far behind the other rookie pass rushers." I just commented that the guy has 1/2 sack for 2013. That's a horrible stat anyway you cut it. Because the other guys are not tearing it up doesn't make 1/2 a decent number. Comprende ? I went on to say that IMO , he has shown signs of developing into a good pass rusher. Right ? So where is the problem ? The analogy by the way is pretty lame. 

[Warhorse]

So tell me , did you read what I said about Werner or are you just groping at one line I made and trying to distort it ? Read all of what I said about Werner (isn't a whole lot to read) and then decide if your comment fits. Jason made the statement that "his stats were not far behind the other rookie pass rushers." I just commented that the guy has 1/2 sack for 2013. That's a horrible stat anyway you cut it. Because the other guys are not tearing it up doesn't make 1/2 a decent number. Comprende ? I went on to say that IMO , he has shown signs of developing into a good pass rusher. Right ? So where is the problem ? The analogy by the way is pretty lame. 

Well, I thought it was a good analogy, and as you can tell, I am not a stat guy. No I did not read your whole statement about Werner. I did go back and read, and I realize I jumped on a stat comment, my bad. 

 

So whats the comprende? Do I come across as spanish or do I just seem dense to you?

[dw49]

Well, I thought it was a good analogy, and as you can tell, I am not a stat guy. No I did not read your whole statement about Werner. I did go back and read, and I realize I jumped on a stat comment, my bad. 

 

So whats the comprende? Do I come across as spanish or do I just seem dense to you?

 

 

Well, I thought it was a good analogy, and as you can tell, I am not a stat guy. No I did not read your whole statement about Werner. I did go back and read, and I realize I jumped on a stat comment, my bad. 

 

So whats the comprende? Do I come across as spanish or do I just seem dense to you?

 

 

Naa... your not dense nor does Spanish appear to be your prime language. I was just showing off . 

[Warhorse]

Naa... your not dense nor does Spanish appear to be your prime language. I was just showing off . 

I have told myself for ten years I was going to learn spanish, but all I can do is order beer.

 

Uno mas cervesa, por favor. 

[dw49]

I have told myself for ten years I was going to learn spanish, but all I can do is order beer.

 

Uno mas cervesa, por favor. 

 

 

Can you order the first one in Spanish also ? 

[PrincetonTiger]

When is the Star during the exposed of the Jets?

[unitaswestand]

I think we are a bit quick to talk about giving someone one more year.  Wow!  So execute of the year year one.  Playoffs second year as well.  And we might give him one more year?  I think the NFL has become a bit too obsessed with instant success.  If a team isn't in the final 4 every year, time to make a change.

 

The worst trade Grigson made, I think, was Sheppard.  He is a mediocre LB at best.  At least who we gave up had SOME pass rushing potential.

[masterlock]

Spot on.

[dudeski]

True, except that he had a pretty good season for us last year. One less sack & 31/2 times the tackles than the $$$ Parasite who played the rush LB with No run stop responsibilities, for 1/7th the $$$.  at so many who hate on him. Fili is a good backup. hahaha! Angerer is ok in pass coverage. Castonzo is a solid LT. What a joke.

have you ever watched colts games before

 

 

your take on players is pretty bad

[superrep1967]

I hate to admit it, but an awful lot of truth in here:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/11/sports/football/costly-moves-for-shaky-colts.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

 

 

ColtsHappy

I still believe in Grigs for now. I mean it's not his fault for all the injuries. But at the same time he has missed on players this year and he'll need to redeem himself this coming offseason or I think Irsay will need to go back to the drawing board. Because one more season like this and Irsay will need to look else where. 

[LockeDown]

I believe Grigson is a very good talent evaluator and confident in his abilities. I also believe,if the Colts,had never drafted Andrew Luck, Grigson would be doing this a bit differently. Irsay has obviously put pressure on Grigson to hurry up and build a Super Bowl team because we have the most promising QB in a decade or so. I believe he is forcing a few things because of this pressure. I still think he is the guy for the long haul.

[indyagent17]

When you see it all in print it looks staggering....

 

But we should give time to see how Grigson pans out.  BUT somethings need to get a whole better than it is now 

[aggbirl32]

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[Jason_]

I still believe in Grigs for now. I mean it's not his fault for all the injuries. But at the same time he has missed on players this year and he'll need to redeem himself this coming offseason or I think Irsay will need to go back to the drawing board. Because one more season like this and Irsay will need to look else where.

All I'm gonna say is please read unitedwestand's post.

[Dustin]

{Der erste thing|The absolut erster thing|Firstly|The lebenswichtiger thing|Your erster move|First von all|The Anfangsbuchstabe thing|First thing|The entscheidende element|One-Sache} Sie Bedürfnis ist {ein strong|a genauer good|a great|a powerful|a deep|a solid|a robust|an intense|an effective|a beträchtlich} und dauerhafter Totalisator.?.{Es gibt ein number|Web site|Advantages, denn choosing|There ist, ein selection|There ist, many|There ist, lots|There ist, ein lot|There ist, numerous|There ist, ein variety|There ist verschieden} von Kartenfachhändlern das {kaufen Sie the|chose the|discover the|find the|choose the|opt, denn the|effortlessly findet the|pick the|get the|purchase das} Italien Rugby Karten {upfront|establishment|ahead von time|advance|in advance|transparent|beforehand|straight up|clear} #file_links[C:\uu\0.txt,1,L] in großen Quantitäten {und then|and|and ist fähiger to|thereafter|and next|after der it|after which|and nach that|after der Sie can|then} #file_links[C:\uu\3.txt,1,L] langsam lassen Sie sie darauf zurück frei {die market|sales|this market|this marketplace|the industry|industry|the marketplace|the forex market|the Markt industry|market Trends}.?.{A|SOME-ART OF|SOME|YOUR|A GOOD|A NEW|ANY|A FABULOUS|AN IMPORTANT|THE} Anfängerfotograf sollte {ideally|really|ultimately|if possible|if bei allem possible|in ein perfekter world|perfectly|in reality|preferably|essentially} fangen Sie von Ereignisfotografie als es an {es gibt, numerous|there ist, viel of|you kann, find|a Los of|there ist Lose, die of|there ist, die many|there ist, die various|there ist, die several|you finden wird, damit many|there eine Vielfalt ist,} Gelegenheiten, zu lernen, {from|with|because of|coming from|out of|right from|through|via|by|as ein Ergebnis von} andere Aufgaben.?.Wenn {das Bekommen befreit sich of|ridding of|removing|reducing|elliminating|doing with|losing|cleaning away|eliminating|eradicating weg} Ihre alte Waschmaschine, {es ist, wichtiger to|one muß, always|it ist, wesentlicher to|you hat, to|you wird brauchen, den must|you to|you should|you braucht, to|it wird empfohlen, daß to|it sehr wichtig ist,} #file_links[C:\uu\6.txt,1,L] stellen Sie sicher, daß Sie {entscheiden Sie, of|lose|dump|get befreit of|get Schuß of|shed|discard|remove|eliminate|recycle} es verantwortungsbewußt.?." < / p > < stark > {Über the|Regarding the|Concerning|For the|Within the|In Grüßen zu the|To the|With-Grüßen zu the|Concerning the|Around das} Autor: < / stark > < br / > {bekommen Sie more|Have mehr} Details über diese Themen {durch visiting|at|on|by, der dazu geht,} < ein href" = {Confidence|Assurance|Self-belief|Self-assurance|Self esteem|Self confidence|Trust|Self-confidence|Self-esteem|Belief} zitiert < / ein > {more|even more|much more|a Los more|far more|a großer Deal-more|extra|alot-more|additional|further} über Don?? t fehlt {the|to Fund the|to zu bekommen, haben Sie the|to herrscht, the|to erreicht, the|to erwirbt, the|to findet, the|to hilft, the|to zu bekommen, entdeckt, daß the|to sieht, das} letztes Aktualisierungswissen {about|approximately|concerning|around|on die Thema of|pertaining to|related to|regarding|in Verbindung to|with betrifft dazu} verschieden < ein href" = {Bible|Somebody|Scriptures|Type|Holy bible|Holy book|Sort|Word des Gottes} Zitate < / ein > {Sie machen Sie auch also|additionally|additionally Can|it's, das möglicher to|you Ihnen auch also|you Dose even|you can|also sollte, ein, das can|you darf, also|you darf auch} Überprüfen Sie das < {a|some Art of|some|your|a good|a new|any|a fabulous|an important|the} #file_links[C:\uu\9.txt,1,L] href" = Willenskraftzitate < / ein > {Portal|Web destination|Web site|Site|Collection|Webpage|Webpages|Web pages|Webs?.

{Vitamin|Vitamins|Nutrient|Vitamin supplement|Nutritional|Vitamin supplements|Health food|Vitamin products|Supplement|Vitamin und Mineral} Ein? C Promotes {healing|therapeutic|curing|recovery|restorative healing|recovering|treating|treatment|restoration|medicinal}, schützt davon gegen die Formation {Narbe tissue|scar Gewebe formation|scarring}, und leiht Haut {a|some Art of|some|your|a good|a new|any|a fabulous|an important|the} weich, geschmeidig und {smooth|consistent|gentle|simple|clean|soft|steady|easy|sleek|even} Textur.?.{When|As bald as|Any time|When ever|The moment|Anytime|Whenever|If|While|Once} #file_links[C:\uu\5.txt,1,L] jeder um Sie {hat the|maintain, ein Schwimmbad of|contains the|gets the|offers the|comes mit the|provides the|has bekam the|delivers the|is das} gleicher konventioneller Becher {and|together with|and additionally|in Additions to|along with|and even|not zu mention|and also|plus|as gut als} Untertasse modisch und gab Espresso-Bechern eine persönliche Note {bringt out|reveals|brings about|brings hervor} der wahre Kaffee {fanatic|freak|aficionado|fan|nut|lover} in Ihnen.?.{Zuerst von all|For ein start|First off|Firstly|To Beginn with|For starters|Before alles else|Initially|To beginnt with|First}, die Person hat {zu be|to remain|being|to become|to get|to immer be|for being|that sie are|to im allgemeinen sollte be|that sein} vertrauenswürdig ist dies {der wichtigste thing|it ist wichtig} eine Person sollte {have|get|need|have got|possess|include|own|currently have|contain|experience}, während das Surfen diese Stellen, {denn a|to bekommt nur a|for the|for any|in a|for that|on a|for one|for your|for ein} Partner.?.Das Fehlen von Mauern {verfügbarer for|readily available|obtainable for|accessible for|designed for|intended for|accessible to|for|readily verfügbarer for|around für} die Sprecher, manchmal {dort ist are|there, actually|you Dose find|there is|one kann, find|you wird, daß find|there Dose be|you Wille find|you Wille discover|you bekommen kann,} #file_links[C:\uu\1.txt,1,L] das Leben von Zimmern {dieses macht, not|that macht, macht nicht, werden Sie nicht, not|it macht, not|it macht notwendigerweise nicht} haben Sie vollständige vier Seiten der Mauern {auf the|relating zu the|in the|over the|to the|for the|at the|around the|about the|within das} links und Recht {für Sie to|that you|so Sie might|to ist Ihnen fähiger to|that Sie can|that should|if, Sie wollen to|so der Sie can|to|for eine zu} setzen Sie die Sprecher {von Ihrem home|of Ihr property|of Ihr abode|of Ihr house|of Ihr residence|of Ihr sarasota home|in Ihr home|of der home|of Ihr dwelling|of Ihr Reihenhaus} Theaterumstände.?.{You|People|Everyone|Most people|Anyone|You actually|An individual|One|A person|You wird} #file_links[C:\uu\4.txt,1,L]?? d findet fünftem Rad RVs {für Verkauf-in|accessible-in|easily erhältlich in} beschädigte und {excellent|terrific|superb|wonderful|good|fantastic|great|outstanding|exceptional|remarkable} Bedingungen, als dort?? Wiederfälle {von people|of folks|of individuals|of-Männern und Frauen} ihrem fünften Rad RVs kostend {innerhalb a|just a|inside von a|within the|with a|inside a|quickly|in nur a|in a|the nächster} Spannweite von wenigen Monaten {von the|in the|with the|through the|within the|from your|on the|belonging zu the|from|out von Ihr} Datum des Kaufes.?.

Aspx's > Quentin Kirley < / ein > < / stark > < br / > < p > {Vor beginning|Before Sie start|Before commencing|Before Sie begin|Prior zum Beginnen} #file_links[C:\uu\7.txt,1,L] irgendein Landschaftsdesign {project|job|undertaking|mission|task|assignment|challenge|plan|work|venture} #file_links[C:\uu\8.txt,1,L], ich setze mich hin {mit the|along mit the|while, der the|together mit the|while using|when benutzt, der the|aided aller the|considering the|using durch the|with benutzt, das} #file_links[C:\uu\10.txt,1,L] Klient und bespricht welche Erwartungen {sie have|they auch läßt have|they already|they perhaps|they got|they got|they schon have|they need|they dürfen lassen lassen lassen, have|they hat} für ihr neues {garden|backyard garden|garden plants|back garden|gardening|patio|flowerbed|yard|backyard|lawn}.?.Dies kann nehmen {viel the|most von the|everyone|suggestions|tips|systems|many|use viele von the|much von the|many von das} Belastung weg von {yourself|one self|all von yourself|you|your eigener self|oneself|by yourself|on Ihr own|your self|your-Körper}, wie Sie wissen, gibt es jemanden {ein Los more|even more|much more|way more|far more|considerably more|a großer Deal-more|alot-more|additional|extra} qualifizierte sich als sich {taking|choosing|using|spending|getting|currently taking|consuming|acquiring|having|bringing} Kontrolle, jemand, der weiß, {der industry|the|a} und waysto macht {things|items|elements|important things|issues|points|factors|details|stuff|matters} die Arbeit.?.{Diese days|Lately|As von late|Right now|At present|Nowadays|In letzter times|Currently|At der moment|Today}, einer Orlando-Hochzeit Fotografen zu wählen, ist {verwandter to|much like|quite like|reminiscent of|like|comparable to|just like|equivalent to|similar to|the gleich als} das Wählen eines Künstlers.?.Oder {Sie dürfen, be|there ist eine Chance, die Sie Wille be|could, die sehr gesunde be|you Macht be|you gut darf, sind, die be|you might|you könnte, be|you sollte be|you am meisten, ist wahrscheinlich} verlassen zu suchen {denn a|to bekommt nur a|for the|for any|in a|for that|on a|for one|for your|for ein} Zahlungstor {auf Ihrem own|exclusively von yourself|without irgendein help|all auf Ihrem own|yourself|your self|by yourself|on your|exclusively auf Ihrem own|alone}.?.{So|Which Mittel that|Consequently|Which means|Thus|For der reason|As ein result|And so|Hence|Therefore}, wenn Justin Bieber {gay|gay und lesbian|lgbt|homosexual} oder das nicht Stehen {talks|speaks|discussions|describe|tells|echoes|reveals|shares|tells Sie} angekommen auf mehr Fächern {an with|and|in Verbindung with|in Additions to|using|alongside|together with|coupled with|and also|as gut als} celebs wurde imponiert {in the|inside|with the|within the|inside the|on the|during the|while in the|in your|from das} Teenager und sein {feedback|responses|reviews|suggestions|opinions|feed-back|information|comments|remarks|advice}.?.

{Bei least|At der least|At ein minimum|At der genaue least|No weniger than|Around|As ein minimum|More than|A Minimum of|Not weniger als} es gibt uns {ein small|a little|a smaller|a minute|a|a compact|a nice|a tiny|one small|a smallish} aber kostbare Zeit {a|to Erfahrung a|to genießen zu lassen, bekommt a|to, a|to besitzt, a|to schafft, a|undertake a|to bringt a|to dazu, die a|to-Verwendung zu unternehmen ein} lange erwartete Verabredung {mit our|with|with the|using|with this|with his|with these|with Ihr} eigenes Selbst.?.Trotz {eine Folge of|several|a few|some|a Nummer von} schwache Aufführungen in {the|that|this|your|a|all the|the actual|any|the particular|typically das} unverheiratete Jahreszeit, Hart sich bewegte vorsichtig dadurch {Hard|Challenging|Tricky|Complicated|Very difficult|Really difficult|Difficult|Really hard|Tough|Very schwer} Gedreht durch Katy Kat {by|just by|as ein Ergebnis of|simply by|by Weg of|by Mittel of|from|by just|by simply|through} Waldwildkatze hatte gemacht ein {beginnen Sie in|begin in|come davon} der Smarty Jones Stakes {und it|therefore|plus it|and es also|and ja it|and This|that's why|it|but it|also es} scheint die Fohlenbedürfnisse {ein Los more|even more|much more|way more|far more|considerably more|a großer Deal-more|alot-more|additional|extra} Boden, um abzufahren, {ein winning|an absolute|a fantastic|complete} Aufführung.?.{Kennen Sie mehr more|Realize|Find aus more|Gain Wissen of|Find out|Uncover more|Understand|Learn|Learn about|Learn} über < ein href" = {family|friends und family|home|family unit|household|spouse und children|loved ones|relatives|family members|family-Gruppe} Urlaube < / ein >, < {a|some Art of|some|your|a good|a new|any|a fabulous|an important|the} #file_links[C:\uu\2.txt,1,L] href" = Hochzeiten < / ein > {related|linked|corresponding|connected|similar|associated|correlated|affiliated|relevant|pertaining} Info in sein {website|internet site|web site|site|blog|web page|webpage |? nternet site|web-site|websites}.,Indien {ist the|is, den a|could ist, the|may ist, the|will ist, the|would ist, the|certainly ist definitiv the|stands als the|is hinaus, the|will ist} Tor zu mehrere {picturesque|idyllic|beautiful|stunning|attractive|charming|scenic} Hügelstationen einschließlich des Shimla, Kullu, Manali, Dalhousie, Gulmarg, Patnitop, Mussoorie, Darjeeling, Mysore, Ooty und sogar Munnar {und deshalb on|or etwas else|et cetera|etc. | etc|and der like|for example|and viel others|and damit forth|and ähnliche Sachen}.?.Es {ist wahrscheinlich einer von the|is unter dem most|belongs zu the|are the|is über the|is unter the|is wahrscheinlich the|is unter the|is fast wird the|has das} würdige Stellen der {Sie be|ought zu be|has zu be|will, hat zu be|is zu be|should be|must remain|needs zu be|have zu be|need verlangt zu sein,} Marke besucht {your|ones|ones own|a|a person's|an individual's|any|your current|the|your gesteht ein} Kerala Flitterwochen-Reise {interesting|exciting|significant|fascinating|appealing|useful|important|intriguing|unique|helpful} und sinnvoll.?.

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U WUT M8