Broncos at Pats SNF game thread (mega merge)

[PrincetonTiger]

I would not want to be on the Broncos charter back to Denver

[ViriLudant]

This was an enjoyable thread to read.

Very amusing, to see people declaring a Broncos victory so early.

Oh, and yes, Peyton sucks in bad/cold weather. Jaws confirmed it this morning. He can't throw into the slightest breeze.

[jvan1973]

This was an enjoyable thread to read.

Very amusing, to see people declaring a Broncos victory so early.

Oh, and yes, Peyton sucks in bad/cold weather. Jaws confirmed it this morning. He can't throw into the slightest breeze.

the td to tie the game was into the wind

[bayone]

 

SUGGESTION TO DENVER lance ball lives 2 miles away, is supposedly in shape as has been trying out , he at least hold onto the ball and is a halfway decent   blocker

 

 

[amfootball]

 

SUGGESTION TO DENVER lance ball lives 2 miles away, is supposedly in shape as has been trying out , he at least hold onto the ball and is a halfway decent   blocker

 

 

Pats could use him too for Ridley the fumbling machine.

[bayone]

This was an enjoyable thread to read.

Very amusing, to see people declaring a Broncos victory so early.

Oh, and yes, Peyton sucks in bad/cold weather. Jaws confirmed it this morning. He can't throw into the slightest breeze.

 

i noted in kc game or this one with links and exact QB rating that Peyton qb goes down somewhat under 42 degreess but gets really bad under freezin , 32 degrees & his 70 last night was about right from what i remember for sub freezing temp

 

 have not  read nor commented on early part of thread , ist comment was 546 am , read if u like its # 433 ,HOWEVER  can imagine what it was like though as u say  

 

i    did note some things but also saID WELL DESERVED WIN FOR PATS

 

1 forum member has said this is off topic, others replied in sympathy,  but with many power outages involving my complex and ssometimes basically only my complex and not surrounding area  and last week not able to watch both Bronco or Pat games  it is to me pertinent and on topic, when at hotel u only have piot luck getting on there computer, thats why took till wed or thursday to first comment after last weeks games

 

having a meeting with management , people in uproar , still having brownouts and can lose power anytime, Just before lasy one management said were working with DTE to find out why, we heard that last year to, we wantt generators, people now moving out so owners loosing money and may just act, so hopefully something will get done,m I could feed pleanty with spoiled food i had to dump,

 

this shopuld be in Misc section but again I can lose power anytime, was posting end of last week and went down again for a sj hort time& lost my comenbt so any comments may overlap varying issues trying to get them in  as lights flicker

[IcyRhythms]

Pats haven't had a good defense since the 2006 season.

 

Peyton didn't play on the Colts team tonight.  He played on the Broncos.  How many teams does Peyton need to play on before you stop blaming everyone else around Peyton?  Brady only threw to 5 players tonight I believe.  Colts' fans need to stop making excuses because it's childish.

 

Peyton is playing on a record breaking offense this year that in some categories is putting up better stats than the Patriots 2007 18-1 team.  Welker has more td's this year in the first 8 games than he ever did through out his career in those seasons first 8 games.

 

Peyton is putting up much better numbers this year than Brady is.  Broncos' offense is CRUSHING the Pats' offense in stats this year.  Broncos were 9-1 going into tonight's game.  Pats were 7-3.  Pats have injuries on D.  lol

 

Tony Dungy was an amazing coach who EVERYONE knows built one of the greatest defenses of all time in the Tampa Bay Bucs and it was Gruden who took Dungy's team to the super bowl so it was really Dungy's team that won the Super Bowl.

 

For Colts' fans to whine about Tom Brady having to rely on Belichick and that Belichick is such a brilliant genius than that continues to prove that spy gate was a non-issue and Belichick doesn't need any camera to beat Peyton.  Pats are 4-2 against Peyton since 2007.  Brady is 4-1 against Peyton since 2007.

 

 

 

 

It's almost as if you forget who we're talking about. No, the Pats are fine on defense(especially against a well known opponent)as long as Belichick is still the coach. Great coaches/teams find ways to overcome injuries and that's something Belichick has always been able to do. It really doesn't matter who the QB in NE either. Look no further than Matt Cassel for further proof of that. I remember Pats fanatics trying to convince people that he was actually a good QB and could take over for Brady one day

 

Look at all of the contested receivers Peyton had to deal with last night, vs Tom Brady throwing to wide open players. Belichicks schemes were working, the Broncos weren't. So much for those injuries. Dungy was not an amazing coach. How often were the Colts ranked 20th or below? MANY

 

YES, the Patriots were exposed for cheating and a large part of the football community will always feel those Superbowls weren't legit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[amfootball]

 

 

It's almost as if you forget who we're talking about. No, the Pats are fine on defense(especially against a well known opponent)as long as Belichick is still the coach. Great coaches/teams find ways to overcome injuries and that's something Belichick has always been able to do. It really doesn't matter who the QB in NE either. Look no further than Matt Cassel for further proof of that. I remember Pats fanatics trying to convince people that he was actually a good QB and could take over for Brady one day

 

Look at all of the contested receivers Peyton had to deal with last night, vs Tom Brady throwing to wide open players. Belichicks schemes were working, the Broncos weren't. So much for those injuries. Dungy was not an amazing coach. How often were the Colts ranked 20th or below? MANY

 

YES, the Patriots were exposed for cheating and a large part of the football community will always feel those Superbowls weren't legit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bitter much?

[-JJ-]

It pains me to say this, but Props to Brady for his performance in the 2nd half.

 

This was another "Classic" Game, and like so many already said on here,  I thought it was over at the Half, however the Pats never gave up and were relentless in their Win.    Credit where credit is due.

Nicely said- thanks.

And for the record I'm not a blame Manning type guy. Its football- it is what it is

[dynasty13]

 

 

It's almost as if you forget who we're talking about. No, the Pats are fine on defense(especially against a well known opponent)as long as Belichick is still the coach. Great coaches/teams find ways to overcome injuries and that's something Belichick has always been able to do. It really doesn't matter who the QB in NE either. Look no further than Matt Cassel for further proof of that. I remember Pats fanatics trying to convince people that he was actually a good QB and could take over for Brady one day

 

Look at all of the contested receivers Peyton had to deal with last night, vs Tom Brady throwing to wide open players. Belichicks schemes were working, the Broncos weren't. So much for those injuries. Dungy was not an amazing coach. How often were the Colts ranked 20th or below? MANY

 

YES, the Patriots were exposed for cheating and a large part of the football community will always feel those Superbowls weren't legit.

 

And all they've done since is go to 2 more Superbowls and lead the league in wins. I knew it wouldnt take long for a spygate comment from a new poster. Never fails...

[TAPLOOK]

It's almost as if you forget who we're talking about. No, the Pats are fine on defense(especially against a well known opponent)as long as Belichick is still the coach. Great coaches/teams find ways to overcome injuries and that's something Belichick has always been able to do. It really doesn't matter who the QB in NE either. Look no further than Matt Cassel for further proof of that. I remember Pats fanatics trying to convince people that he was actually a good QB and could take over for Brady one day

 

Look at all of the contested receivers Peyton had to deal with last night, vs Tom Brady throwing to wide open players. Belichicks schemes were working, the Broncos weren't. So much for those injuries. Dungy was not an amazing coach. How often were the Colts ranked 20th or below? MANY

 

YES, the Patriots were exposed for cheating and a large part of the football community will always feel those Superbowls weren't legit.

Andy Dicks a Colts fan? who knew?

[TAPLOOK]

And all they've done since is go to 2 more Superbowls and lead the league in wins. I knew it wouldnt take long for a spygate comment from a new poster. Never fails...

And lost one on a Welker drop to boot.

[Moose Of Woe]

And lost one on a Welker drop to boot.

It was a stellar throw. We could never put any blame on #12, though.

 

Welker still should have got it, but it was on both of them.

[bayone]

 

 

It's almost as if you forget who we're talking about. No, the Pats are fine on defense(especially against a well known opponent)as long as Belichick is still the coach. Great coaches/teams find ways to overcome injuries and that's something Belichick has always been able to do. It really doesn't matter who the QB in NE either. Look no further than Matt Cassel for further proof of that. I remember Pats fanatics trying to convince people that he was actually a good QB and could take over for Brady one day

 

Look at all of the contested receivers Peyton had to deal with last night, vs Tom Brady throwing to wide open players. Belichicks schemes were working, the Broncos weren't. So much for those injuries. Dungy was not an amazing coach. How often were the Colts ranked 20th or below? MANY

 

YES, the Patriots were exposed for cheating and a large part of the football community will always feel those Superbowls weren't legit.

 

 

while I agree with some of what u say this spy gate thing is ancient hsitory already, sometimes its just better to let it go , the NFL issues whatever, did whatever, its over , that was then this is now, its not an excuse for yesterdays results ,

 

personally we all probably haave own feelings on that subject & whatever may or may not occurred , but it surely is not something needed to bring up Re yesterdays game and history, seperate issues

 

BB is famoius for haltime adjustments, JDR played not to lose , instead of to win

 

as far as Peyton, having 5 cerviocal vertebrea myself operated on all i can say he is one determined  tough son of a ^(^((^ for even getting on a field & give him credit for that each game win or lose , and as far as weather I drop things daily but in cold forget it, cant hold onto anything and the numbness is just plan irritating

 

as its not really numb ,but pins and needle sesations that are quite disturbing, called paresthesias 

 

& as different for everone can be percived as I described or tingling, tickling, prickling, pricking, or burning & host of other feelings,& throwing a football at the pro level with that condition which also occurs  on warm days too to lesser extents is just awesome of him

 

Bitter much?

 

some are some arent, if was other way it would be the same , always is with a diversified fan base and opinions

 

 

 

 

Nicely said- thanks.

And for the record I'm not a blame Manning type guy. Its football- it is what it is

 

like Gramz said

[Sports Central1]

 

 

It's almost as if you forget who we're talking about. No, the Pats are fine on defense(especially against a well known opponent)as long as Belichick is still the coach. Great coaches/teams find ways to overcome injuries and that's something Belichick has always been able to do. It really doesn't matter who the QB in NE either. Look no further than Matt Cassel for further proof of that. I remember Pats fanatics trying to convince people that he was actually a good QB and could take over for Brady one day

 

Look at all of the contested receivers Peyton had to deal with last night, vs Tom Brady throwing to wide open players. Belichicks schemes were working, the Broncos weren't. So much for those injuries. Dungy was not an amazing coach. How often were the Colts ranked 20th or below? MANY

 

YES, the Patriots were exposed for cheating and a large part of the football community will always feel those Superbowls weren't legit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same old tired unoriginal excuses continue.  Just face it.  Brady owns Manning for now.  No one in New England cares about spy gate and that's all that matters.  We're still enjoying the red sox world series victory. 

 

Patriots defense is pretty bad, in fact since 2007 it's been worse than the Colts and Broncos in many of those years.

 

What did Matt Cassel do for the Pats?  He took over for a team that went 18-1 in 2007 and they only went 9-7 and they missed the playoffs in 2008 under him.   I give Cassel credit for taking over for one of the best QB's of all time and doing the best he can under those circumstances.  Peyton beat the Pats in 2008 and 2009.   Your logic is flawed and you're grasping for straws just because you just can't admit Brady owns Manning for now.  It could change some day.  Brady is 10-4 against Peyton.  They'd both have to play for at least 4 to 6 more seasons and play each other every season and in the playoffs too for Manning to win 6 against Brady to tie Brady's at 10.

 

With regards to the Broncos' receivers not getting open that's not due to good coaching from the Pats, it's due to the Broncos not playing well themselves.  The Pats didn't have Alfonso Dennard at CB out there.  Aquib Talib was sometimes hobbling around with a bad hip.  It seemed Peyton chickened out in late in the 4th and in over time.  Aquib Talib gets injured and leaves the game for a few plays and the Pats put an inferior CB to cover the Broncos top WR and Peyton doesn't even once target him.  Welker dropped I think 2 balls?  He's coming off a concussion last week so I give him some reason for why he might have made some mistakes.

 

If the Broncos were to have won last night then what would your reason be?  lol  

[Moose Of Woe]

What did Matt Cassel do for the Pats?  He took over for a team that went 18-1 in 2007 and they only went 9-7 and they missed the playoffs in 2008 under him. 

11-5.

 

And Matt Cassel sucks. He has a losing record as a starter even if you count his successful year in NE. This despite being on some "not that bad" KC teams. Now he's a backup to Christian Ponder of all people. If nothing else, that's how you know he's awful.

 

So basically the Patriots still went 11-5 in spite of Matt Cassel. It speaks volumes for the coaching/team.

[GoPats]

It pains me to say this, but Props to Brady for his performance in the 2nd half.

 

This was another "Classic" Game, and like so many already said on here,  I thought it was over at the Half, however the Pats never gave up and were relentless in their Win.    Credit where credit is due.

 

You are 100% class Gramz. 

 

It was a fun one to watch... but I think it might have taken a week or two off the end of my life, lol...

[TAPLOOK]

11-5.

 

And Matt Cassel sucks. He has a losing record as a starter even if you count his successful year in NE. This despite being on some "not that bad" KC teams. Now he's a backup to Christian Ponder of all people. If nothing else, that's how you know he's awful.

 

So basically the Patriots still went 11-5 in spite of Matt Cassel. It speaks volumes for the coaching/team.

He led the Chiefs to the AFC West Title in 2010 which is more than he did with a very good veteran D in NE. So are you saying BB made a mistake and should have shipping Brady to KC?  

[amfootball]

11-5.

 

And Matt Cassel sucks. He has a losing record as a starter even if you count his successful year in NE. This despite being on some "not that bad" KC teams. Now he's a backup to Christian Ponder of all people. If nothing else, that's how you know he's awful.

 

So basically the Patriots still went 11-5 in spite of Matt Cassel. It speaks volumes for the coaching/team.

Yes it does. Cassell never even looked good in the preseason. They did a masterful job with him but it certainly did help that he inherited an 18-1 team. And while the 11 wins were nice still no playoffs. He just couldn't beat the divisional teams which cost the Pats all the tie breakers.

 

I think with NE most decent QBs would have some success there but with Brady he makes the team extraordinary. Hard to argue that I think given his career.

[buffalo34]

He led the Chiefs to the AFC West Title in 2010 which is more than he did with a very good veteran D in NE. So are you saying BB made a mistake and should have shipping Brady to KC?  

 

IIRC the AFC West was a rather weak division in 2010, and just like 2008, Cassel and the Chiefs were able to pile up wins due to a very easy schedule (and remember, in 2008 the Patriots missed out on a playoff birth because of losing on like the 4th or 5th tiebreaker to the Dolphins). Against teams that were even slightly competent, the Chiefs looked horrible that year.

 

Once the Chiefs in 2010 faced real competition in the playoffs, the Ravens made rather short work of them.

[Moose Of Woe]

He led the Chiefs to the AFC West Title in 2010 which is more than he did with a very good veteran D in NE. So are you saying BB made a mistake and should have shipping Brady to KC?  

 

I said Matt Cassel has a losing record even if you count his time in NE. And that he had some not that bad (actually, pretty good) K.C. teams. Despite that, he has just sucked or underperformed aside from one season. He's 30-35 as a starter. He had one decent year in KC and, since then, has been oft injured or stunk up the joint.

 

The one decent year was 10-6. If you watched the games, they generally won in spite of him with defense and solid special teams play. When those couldn't carry the team, they fell as low as 2-14. A QB and coach later and they're 9-2, and even Alex Smith is nothing special but a hell of an improvement over Cassel.

 

Fans cheered his most recent injury and were glad to be rid of him. Classless, but it speaks volumes about how a QB performs when enough people praise the sun he's off your roster one way or another.

 

Did I mention he's the backup to Christian Ponder? Think about it.

[amfootball]

I said Matt Cassel has a losing record even if you count his time in NE. And that he had some not that bad (actually, pretty good) K.C. teams. Despite that, he has just sucked or underperformed aside from one season. He's 30-35 as a starter. He had one decent year in KC and, since then, has been oft injured or stunk up the joint.

 

The one decent year was 10-6. If you watched the games, they generally won in spite of him with defense and solid special teams play. When those couldn't carry the team, they fell as low as 2-14. A QB and coach later and they're 9-2, and even Alex Smith is nothing special but a hell of an improvement over Cassel.

 

Fans cheered his most recent injury and were glad to be rid of him. Classless, but it speaks volumes about how a QB performs when enough people praise the sun he's off your roster one way or another.

 

Did I mention he's the backup to Christian Ponder? Think about it.

To be fair, Cassell had horrific coaching in KC once Weiss left. He is better I think then what he has become but such is life. It could be worse. He could have had Rex and ended up like Sanchez who is most remembered for the butt fumble.

[Moose Of Woe]

Hecould have had Rex and ended up like Sanchez who is most remembered for the butt fumble.

I don't think Sanchez will ever be able to un-smell that.

[Sports Central1]

The whole back up QB argument is fundamentally flawed and a weak argument to make since it can be picked apart so easily and countered with so many stats and evidence.

 

Many good teams and bad teams had their top QB get injured and a backup QB gets in and does a very good job.  Charlie Batch for years has done a very good job at being a backup in Pittsburgh.  Miami had one of the best backup QB's behind Marino and took over when Marino blew out his achilles and did pretty good.  Alex Smith is benched by the 49ers and Kapernick comes in and takes them to the Super Bowl.  Kurt Warner takes over for Trent Green and takes them to the Super Bowl to win.  Brady takes over for Drew Bledsoe as the Patriots were stagnant for years not going any where and they win in 2001....with the help of Bledsoe of course.

 

To say that the Patriots made Brady is ridiculous.  Brady helped make the Belichick era.

[Narcosys]

Pats haven't had a good defense since the 2006 season.

Peyton didn't play on the Colts team tonight. He played on the Broncos. How many teams does Peyton need to play on before you stop blaming everyone else around Peyton? Brady only threw to 5 players tonight I believe. Colts' fans need to stop making excuses because it's childish.

Peyton is playing on a record breaking offense this year that in some categories is putting up better stats than the Patriots 2007 18-1 team. Welker has more td's this year in the first 8 games than he ever did through out his career in those seasons first 8 games.

Peyton is putting up much better numbers this year than Brady is. Broncos' offense is CRUSHING the Pats' offense in stats this year. Broncos were 9-1 going into tonight's game. Pats were 7-3. Pats have injuries on D. lol

Tony Dungy was an amazing coach who EVERYONE knows built one of the greatest defenses of all time in the Tampa Bay Bucs and it was Gruden who took Dungy's team to the super bowl so it was really Dungy's team that won the Super Bowl.

For Colts' fans to whine about Tom Brady having to rely on Belichick and that Belichick is such a brilliant genius than that continues to prove that spy gate was a non-issue and Belichick doesn't need any camera to beat Peyton. Pats are 4-2 against Peyton since 2007. Brady is 4-1 against Peyton since 2007.

For all the points you are making. It only lends more credit to QB's playing defenses, not each other. And you dont give enough credit to your defense. It takes a team to win football games. No amount of denial on your part will change that.

[Moose Of Woe]

Patriots defense is pretty bad, in fact since 2007 it's been worse than the Colts and Broncos in many of those years.

Until the Panthers game last week, NE went 36 games in a row with at least one defensive turnover. That doesn't sound pretty bad to me. Quite the opposite, actually.

[IndyTrav]

Over a decades worth of time. With different types of teams, different teams altogether in Peytons instance, different defenses, different O Cords/D Cords, different STs etc etc, we have a pretty clear idea how this is played out....

 

There have been 3 consistent people. Peyton, Brady, Belicheck.

 

 

The simple facts are:

Brady has higher win %, better in cold/outside games, been to and won more SBs, currently (prob not much longer) has the TD record, has 16-0 season, and now has a 10-4 'head to head' record vs Peyton led teams, and the 2 are neck and neck in per game statistics...

[Dustin]

The simple facts are:

Brady has higher win %, better in cold/outside games, been to and won more SBs, currently (prob not much longer) has the TD record, has 16-0 season, and now has a 10-4 'head to head' record vs Peyton led teams, and the 2 are neck and neck in per game statistics...

 

>counting wins as a QB statistic

 

lulz

[Gramz]

12 pages later........  Peyton is still my favorite,  in case anyone was wondering if they changed my mind.  ;)  

[Sports Central1]

Peyton's first game was the 1998 season.  Brady's first game was mid way though the 2001 season.  Peyton has had 3 and a half more seasons than Brady has to add to his stats over Brady.  Both missed one season due to injury.

[IndyTrav]

>counting wins as a QB statistic

 

lulz

 

Not entirely. 

 

Merely pointing out those wins are with entirely different personal, over a decades worth of time. The sample size is fairly large, with an infinite # of personnel differences.... 

 

If you can't count wins for a QB, counting anything a QB does is pointless.....How can you not count wins, but count stats? How can you not count wins, but count coaches? How can you count stats, but not wins? 

[Dustin]

Not entirely.

Merely pointing out those wins are with entirely different personal, over a decades worth of time. The sample size is fairly large, with an infinite # of personnel differences....

If you can't count wins for a QB, counting anything a QB does is pointless.....How can you not count wins, but count stats? How can you not count wins, but count coaches? How can you count stats, but not wins?

Because a stat is a reflection of a QB putting the ball where it is supposed to be and a win is a reflection of good play usually by the entire team.

[amfootball]

Because a stat is a reflection of a QB putting the ball where it is supposed to be and a win is a reflection of good play usually by the entire team.

It is? How about if a player makes a circus catch for a TD like Calvin Johnson does routinely? Or how about when the line picks up a blitz allowing the QB the time to hit his receiver instead of getting plastered? Or how about D. Thomas this year who took a few screens to the house? All of those plays are credited to Manning as TDs and passing yards even though the receiver did all the work.

 

Stats are just as much a reflection of a team accomplishment as a win.

[ViriLudant]

Because a stat is a reflection of a QB putting the ball where it is supposed to be and a win is a reflection of good play usually by the entire team.

Uh.

The Oline still has to block.

The receiver still has to catch it.

Sounds like QB stats are team related, too.

[Dustin]

It is? How about if a player makes a circus catch for a TD like Calvin Johnson does routinely? Or how about when the line picks up a blitz allowing the QB the time to hit his receiver instead of getting plastered? Or how about D. Thomas this year who took a few screens to the house? All of those plays are credited to Manning as TDs and passing yards even though the receiver did all the work.

 

That's why we have advanced metrics such as passing stats under pressure and Yards threw the air (subtracting YAC)

[Dustin]

Uh.

The Oline still has to block.

The receiver still has to catch it.

Sounds like QB stats are team related, too.

 

Yes that's why we have advanced metrics such as stats under pressure, amount of times under pressure and accuracy percentage (subtracts drops and throwaways, and spikes, ect...)

[ViriLudant]

Yes that's why we have advanced metrics such as stats under pressure, amount of times under pressure and accuracy percentage (subtracts drops and throwaways, and spikes, ect...)

Which still doesn't have anything to do with if the WR made an amazing catch, altered his route, etc.

QB stats are team stats as well.

[Yehoodi]

11-5.

 

And Matt Cassel sucks. He has a losing record as a starter even if you count his successful year in NE. This despite being on some "not that bad" KC teams. Now he's a backup to Christian Ponder of all people. If nothing else, that's how you know he's awful.

 

So basically the Patriots still went 11-5 in spite of Matt Cassel. It speaks volumes for the coaching/team.

 

true but then again he went 10-5 with the KC in 2010 . . . what does that say about the 52 pats players outside of the QB? . . . you mean to tell me Brady has been playing with KC level players for all of these years? . . . I am not against looking at one season and stats . . . but I can be tough at times to extrapolate . . . especially when he did both well and bad outside of NE. . .  was 2008 a "fluke" like 2010, is it indicative of his play or the pats, are 2009 and 2011 more consistent with his level of play . . . and so on and so on . . . in his 3 + years of starting he has had two good years and two bad years . . . so it is tough to come to a real conclusion . . .  

[Dustin]

Which still doesn't have anything to do with if the WR made an amazing catch, altered his route, etc.

 

 

lol an "amazing catch" is more oft than not an outlier. Unless you're Megatron, an "amazing catch" only happens maybe once every few games.

[Yehoodi]

Which still doesn't have anything to do with if the WR made an amazing catch, altered his route, etc.

QB stats are team stats as well.

 

this . . . . "I got bingo" . .