Sports Illustrated: dust-up is more about Bill Polian, less about Peyton Manning

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Someone (Doug Farrar) in the mainstream Sports press gets it...

(And this is a further indictment on Bob Krapitz because he more than any other member of the media hated Bill Polian. His unwillingness to rightly point out what Irsay meant shows that Krapitz is nothing more than a muckraker. He KNOWS Irsay was referencing Polian and yet he has not been out front saying so)

 

...in the end, Irsay was right — he had to hire people who could create a more well-rounded team. Because in his last five years with the Colts organization (2007-11), team president Bill Polian gave the franchise little to work with. None of his first-round picks (receiver Anthony Gonzalez, running back Donald Brown, defensive end Jerry Hughes, and offensive tackle Anthony Castonzo) have played to that level, or anywhere near it. And from a depth perspective, only receiver Austin Collie (fourth round, 2009), defensive tackle Fili Moala (second round, 2009) and linebacker Pat Angerer (second round, 2010) have made the kinds of strides one must expect from players taken deeper in the draft. There is no other way to succeed consistently in the NFL. If you start blowing your drafts, you will fall to earth with a massive “thud,” and it doesn’t really matter how good you are — even at the game’s most important position.

Irsay hired general manager Ryan Grigson to replace Polian and head coach Chuck Pagano to replace Jim Caldwell, and Grigson’s first draft provided more immediately valuable players for the Colts than Polian’s had in five years.  Luck lived up to his promise by redefining the franchise, but the new brain trust also made wise decisions in tight ends Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen, running back Vick Ballard and receiver T.Y. Hilton. The Colts went from 2-14 to 11-5 in one season with the balance Irsay desired, and they’re one of the AFC’s top contenders at 4-2 right now.

[Coffeedrinker]

Not much to disagree with... except the part about Coby Fleener being a wise 2nd round pick.  And like I said it the first thread about Irsay's comments... I truly believe the decision to release Manning was a mutual decision between Irsay and Manning.  Irsay needed to rebuild and Manning didn't want to spend his last few years in the league on a rebuilding team.

[braveheartcolt]

Geez, even on a Polian thread Coby cops a shot. Pick on someone your own size Coffee....

[Cynjin]

Someone (Doug Farrar) in the mainstream Sports press gets it...

(And this is a further indictment on Bob Krapitz because he more than any other member of the media hated Bill Polian. His unwillingness to rightly point out what Irsay meant shows that Krapitz is nothing more than a muckraker. He KNOWS Irsay was referencing Polian and yet he has not been out front saying so)

The only thing I would disagree with is that I have heard Kravitz say that if anything the comments were a shot at Polian.

[21isSuperman]

Not much to disagree with... except the part about Coby Fleener being a wise 2nd round pick.  And like I said it the first thread about Irsay's comments... I truly believe the decision to release Manning was a mutual decision between Irsay and Manning.  Irsay needed to rebuild and Manning didn't want to spend his last few years in the league on a rebuilding team.

Agree with everything.

 

That's how I took it from the start too.  I thought it was more of a shot at Polian than Peyton

[ConBro]

Agree with everything.

 

That's how I took it from the start too.  I thought it was more of a shot at Polian than Peyton

I've been sticking up for Irsay all week with my friends-- I've been trying to tell them that they are on the outside looking in on a situation all of us Colts fans have seen develop over a span of years now-- Polian and son did not build a well-rounded team like Grigson and Chuck have in 2 years. It's refreshing to see Andrew throw for 188-200 yards in a game with no TDs and we get a resounding win. It is reassuring; sure, we'd all love to see Luck throw 4 TDs and 380 yds and eek out a win, but we all know the risks involved. Glad to see you and I share the same mindset Superman!

[The Old Crow]

I've been sticking up for Irsay all week with my friends-- I've been trying to tell them that they are on the outside looking in on a situation all of us Colts fans have seen develop over a span of years now-- Polian and son did not build a well-rounded team like Grigson and Chuck have in 2 years. It's refreshing to see Andrew throw for 188-200 yards in a game with no TDs and we get a resounding win. It is reassuring; sure, we'd all love to see Luck throw 4 TDs and 380 yds and eek out a win, but we all know the risks involved. Glad to see you and I share the same mindset Superman!

So far the results are 11-5 and one and done. Suppose they are one and done again this year ? Will that be well rounded , or more of the same ?

[ConBro]

So far the results are 11-5 and one and done. Suppose they are one and done again this year ? Will that be well rounded , or more of the same ?

Yeah true... but the x-factor is that many believe we had no business showing up to the dance last year anyway. Of course time will tell, but I'm sure I speak for many people when I say that this team has shown a much more balanced system this year over last year.

[NewColtsFan]

I think Irsay's original comment was ill-advised, both because of what he said and because of the timing.

 

Unfortunately,  Irsay has no sense that if he says something it might blow up in his face and turn into a s**t-storm...   and it did.....

 

That said,   there was no part of me -- none, nada, zip, zero -- that thought Irsay was taking a shot at Peyton.   No one throws a party on National Television in front of 64,000 screaming Peyton Manning fans and takes a shot at him in the week leading up to it.   It makes no sense at all.

 

And quite honestly,  I'm sorry Peyton didn't throw Irsay a bit of a life line by saying something like "I know Jim Irsay,  and he was not taking a shot at me..."     But his "I'm not talking about that"  allowed *s like Skip Bayless to speculate about it on and on....

 

Too bad.....

 

Wish Irsay had said nothing even close to what he said.....     but it was NOT a shot at Peyton.    No chance.

 

Should be a great party!    Hope everyone has a great time!!!

[jvan1973]

I think Irsay's original comment was ill-advised, both because of what he said and because of the timing.

Unfortunately, Irsay has no sense that if he says something it might blow up in his face and turn into a s**t-storm... and it did.....

That said, there was no part of me -- none, nada, zip, zero -- that thought Irsay was taking a shot at Peyton. No one throws a party on National Television in front of 64,000 screaming Peyton Manning fans and takes a shot at him in the week leading up to it. It makes no sense at all.

And quite honestly, I'm sorry Peyton didn't throw Irsay a bit of a life line by saying something like "I know Jim Irsay, and he was not taking a shot at me..." But his "I'm not talking about that" allowed . like Skip Bayless to speculate about it on and on....

Too bad.....

Wish Irsay had said nothing even close to what he said..... but it was NOT a shot at Peyton. No chance.

Should be a great party! Hope everyone has a great time!!!

If he would have said "i really wish we could have won more championships with Peyton at the helm" None of this is being talked about. I think that's all he was trying to say, but the way he said it made it unclear to those looking to blow the situation out of proportion

[WastedColt]

Exactly how I took the comments. It was a shot at Polian not Peyton

[CanuckColt]

Geez, even on a Polian thread Coby cops a shot. Pick on someone your own size Coffee....

Fleener is an easy target these days...he is underwhelming.

[21isSuperman]

I've been sticking up for Irsay all week with my friends-- I've been trying to tell them that they are on the outside looking in on a situation all of us Colts fans have seen develop over a span of years now-- Polian and son did not build a well-rounded team like Grigson and Chuck have in 2 years. It's refreshing to see Andrew throw for 188-200 yards in a game with no TDs and we get a resounding win. It is reassuring; sure, we'd all love to see Luck throw 4 TDs and 380 yds and eek out a win, but we all know the risks involved. Glad to see you and I share the same mindset Superman!

Well said.  People on the outside just like to talk.  It's like how people say the Colts threw Peyton out or they didn't want Peyton.  It was a mutual parting and it made the most sense for all parties involved.  Peyton got to pick a team to go to where he could win championships; the Colts were able to get some cap space and build up a more complete roster.  Everybody wins.

[ConBro]

Fleener is an easy target these days...he is underwhelming.

I bet Donald Brown's shoulders feel a little lighter

[smittywerb]

Agree with everything.

 

That's how I took it from the start too.  I thought it was more of a shot at Polian than Peyton

Exactly.  I think this was just a 'reason' for people to talk bad about Irsay.

 

 

So far the results are 11-5 and one and done. Suppose they are one and done again this year ? Will that be well rounded , or more of the same ?

See, expectations are different.  With PM, we were expected to make it to at least the AFCCG.  With this team, making the playoffs is our expectation.  So no let downs.  And most of the time, with PM, we lost to teams we were expected to beat.

 

 

If he would have said "i really wish we could have won more championships with Peyton at the helm" None of this is being talked about. I think that's all he was trying to say, but the way he said it made it unclear to those looking to blow the situation out of proportion

 

Yup, basically this.  "When keeping it real goes wrong."

[crazycolt1]

Like him or not, Irsay has the moxie to act and say exactly what's on his mind. Not too many owners would have done what he done and face the fans and the media head on with his foresight into the future of the Colts. I am glad we have an owner who will take the hard line and do what he thinks is best for the Colts. Maybe he is not the best public speaker? Maybe he has human faults? So what? He has brought a team who was considered a lower tier team into the spotlight. He stayed the coarse with Polian and son hoping to get better results for 15 years. We as Colts fans had a long good ride with Manning at the helm but things are looking up with the changes that has happened and the changes yet to happen.

[colts8718]

Agree with everything.

 

That's how I took it from the start too.  I thought it was more of a shot at Polian than Peyton

Polian hid behind Peyton all those years

[colts8718]

GO JIM GO COLTS

[The Old Crow]

Yeah true... but the x-factor is that many believe we had no business showing up to the dance last year anyway. Of course time will tell, but I'm sure I speak for many people when I say that this team has shown a much more balanced system this year over last year.

 

My thinking is, get to the dance as much as you can, and your odds increase of winning one. In other words , build a consistent and balanced team as best you can, and then you need a little luck , and hopefully get hot at the right time. 

 

I agree with this year's Colts have more of the puzzle pieces than last years. What I'm not sure I agree with is the notion that Polian wasn't trying to put together a balanced team. I think some years during Manning's run, some years were more balanced than others, however, it wasn't for lack of trying. You could apply the same thinking to the Ravens, who were more defensive minded, but tried to be more balanced in the offense. It's not like Irsay and Grigson reinvented the wheel here. 

 

As I've said, to go to Irsay's point, I understand why he had to pick and go with Luck for the long term, but it's almost like he was saying that Polian wasn't trying to get a balanced team. Now it may be fair to say he didn't succeed all the time, had some bad drafts at the end, signed some bad free agents , and hired his son, but overall , Polian did a great job for you guys. If you're fair-minded , you have to admit that. Most teams, if they're lucky, get one Super Bowl a decade, and you guys got yours in 2006. All I'm saying is Irsay should be more greatful to everyone, and not obsess on the ones that got away. It's fine if you want to go to bigger, stronger offensive and defensive lines,  and a power running game, but that may not net you more than one Super Bowl, or any at all.

 

Look, Earl Weaver with the Baltimore Orioles, won a single World Series during his tenure. He went 1-3, but is celebrated in Baltimore for a long period of time of continued excellence. Would we have loved to win some more World Series, sure, but sometimes you don't get the breaks, or the other team played better in a short seven game series. He now has a statue at Camden Yards.

 

A lot of you fans, and maybe even Irsay, have been spoiled by all the success, and not thankful for what you had. I don't get all the Polian hatred, when he, Irsay, and Manning all did a great job from 1998-2011. It's a record most franchises would die for. This is why this week, why would Irsay rake up all this stuff again, that's all I was saying. There is a time to bring that stuff up, but not this week with Manning coming back to Indy. And apparently, he is still tweeting today, with some new kind of song lyric proverb of his. Sorry, I just don't get it. 

[crazycolt1]

to The Old Crow- You said it best. You don't get it.

[Danfish98]

I bet Donald Brown's shoulders feel a little lighter

 

The fact that he's looked awesome the past couple games helps a lot too I'm sure.  He's making an excellent case for himself to get resigned next year, something that would have sounded crazy a month ago.

[The Old Crow]

to The Old Crow- You said it best. You don't get it.

 

I guess I don't. 

[theanarchist]

Someone (Doug Farrar) in the mainstream Sports press gets it...

(And this is a further indictment on Bob Krapitz because he more than any other member of the media hated Bill Polian. His unwillingness to rightly point out what Irsay meant shows that Krapitz is nothing more than a muckraker. He KNOWS Irsay was referencing Polian and yet he has not been out front saying so)

Costanzo is coming around. He's having a good year so far. He's becoming, in my opinion, one of the top run blocking LT's in the league and his pass blocking has gotten better this year.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

The fact that he's looked awesome the past couple games helps a lot too I'm sure. He's making an excellent case for himself to get resigned next year, something that would have sounded crazy a month ago.

Ehhh I'm Leary. This is an odd situation in that is DB's performance the result of a new system (he looks Roger Craigish in this West Coast offense) or is it the result of this being a contract year (something you see all the time from underperforming NFL players)?

[theanarchist]

My thinking is, get to the dance as much as you can, and your odds increase of winning one. In other words , build a consistent and balanced team as best you can, and then you need a little luck , and hopefully get hot at the right time. 

 

I agree with this year's Colts have more of the puzzle pieces than last years. What I'm not sure I agree with is the notion that Polian wasn't trying to put together a balanced team. I think some years during Manning's run, some years were more balanced than others, however, it wasn't for lack of trying. You could apply the same thinking to the Ravens, who were more defensive minded, but tried to be more balanced in the offense. It's not like Irsay and Grigson reinvented the wheel here. 

 

As I've said, to go to Irsay's point, I understand why he had to pick and go with Luck for the long term, but it's almost like he was saying that Polian wasn't trying to get a balanced team. Now it may be fair to say he didn't succeed all the time, had some bad drafts at the end, signed some bad free agents , and hired his son, but overall , Polian did a great job for you guys. If you're fair-minded , you have to admit that. Most teams, if they're lucky, get one Super Bowl a decade, and you guys got yours in 2006. All I'm saying is Irsay should be more greatful to everyone, and not obsess on the ones that got away. It's fine if you want to go to bigger, stronger offensive and defensive lines,  and a power running game, but that may not net you more than one Super Bowl, or any at all.

 

Look, Earl Weaver with the Baltimore Orioles, won a single World Series during his tenure. He went 1-3, but is celebrated in Baltimore for a long period of time of continued excellence. Would we have loved to win some more World Series, sure, but sometimes you don't get the breaks, or the other team played better in a short seven game series. He now has a statue at Camden Yards.

 

A lot of you fans, and maybe even Irsay, have been spoiled by all the success, and not thankful for what you had. I don't get all the Polian hatred, when he, Irsay, and Manning all did a great job from 1998-2011. It's a record most franchises would die for. This is why this week, why would Irsay rake up all this stuff again, that's all I was saying. There is a time to bring that stuff up, but not this week with Manning coming back to Indy. And apparently, he is still tweeting today, with some new kind of song lyric proverb of his. Sorry, I just don't get it. 

Irsay isn't spoiled, IMO. He's a driven NFL owner. Obsessed with winning. He worked his way up from the bottom. His dad didn't just hand him the silver cup. Irsay knows, like the famous line from 'Patton', "all glory is fleeting". Jim is getting older. He wants to win more championships and he said exactly what needed to be said. Argue with the timing but he said it. Yes it was more of a knock on management, IMO, but Jim knew Bill's model was flawed. Maybe they've swung it too far in the opposite direction now. I'm not ready to say that yet.

 

Irsay knows how hard it is to build a championship team. He wants to do it right this time. Polian did some great things while he was here. But just like anything else your time is limited. Everyone has weaknesses. Bill couldn't draft interior defensive linemen or interior offensive linemen. He routinely missed on 2nd n 3rd round picks in those positions and it cost him dearly. Despite that he still managed to put the team in a position to win championships. He did a great job with a lot of his picks but in the end Tony Ugoh and Anthony Gonzales and Jerry Hughes got him fired.

[The Old Crow]

Irsay isn't spoiled, IMO. He's a driven NFL owner. Obsessed with winning. He worked his way up from the bottom. His dad didn't just hand him the silver cup. Irsay knows, like the famous line from 'Patton', "all glory is fleeting". Jim is getting older. He wants to win more championships and he said exactly what needed to be said. Argue with the timing but he said it. Yes it was more of a knock on management, IMO, but Jim knew Bill's model was flawed. Maybe they've swung it too far in the opposite direction now. I'm not ready to say that yet.

 

Irsay knows how hard it is to build a championship team. He wants to do it right this time. Polian did some great things while he was here. But just like anything else your time is limited. Everyone has weaknesses. Bill couldn't draft interior defensive linemen or interior offensive linemen. He routinely missed on 2nd n 3rd round picks in those positions and it cost him dearly. Despite that he still managed to put the team in a position to win championships. He did a great job with a lot of his picks but in the end Tony Ugoh and Anthony Gonzales and Jerry Hughes got him fired.

 

I don't want you to think I have any thing against Irsay because of the class envy thing. I could care less if he's a billionaire, or anything, good for him. I also saw him at Memorial stadium when he was a kid working as a ballboy, and other starter jobs that the old man gave him. He started from the bottom up and I repect him for that. 

 

What I was trying to say is you all had a good run, Irsay, Polian, and Manning, as an organization.  The spoiled thing is you had it so good for so long, you didn't know how good you had it. Sure, you would have liked a few more Super Bowls, but the Patriots were good, and so were the Saints. Like I've said elsewhere, an organization getting to two Super Bowls, and getting a ring in ten years, isn't bad. 

 

No GM, Polian included, is going to have an infallible run. Ozzie has had some horrible drafts in Baltimore, and missed on free agents. It happens, and the owner has to understand that. I understand Irsay looking at his organization, and looking to upgrade the philosophy and make up of the team, but not this week. The time for that is the beginning on the season, and not when you have a former Indy legend coming back to town. 

 

I'm not sure Irsay built it wrong during the Manning/Polian years. You guys won a Super Bowl, and had a fantastic run. I got news for you, you went with Luck, went to a power running game, and bigger offensive and defensive lines, and guess what, you still may win only one Super Bowl in ten years. One year is gone, and it was one and done, although it was a great turnaround season, Luck was a rookie, and it was a great year compared to the 2-14 debacle. As we all know, it is hard to win the Super Bowl. It's been nine years since the Patriots last one. 

 

I have no problem with Irsay being obsessed with winning, and I've defended him on going the long term route with Luck. I would just accept the Polian/Manning years for what they were, a great run that included a Super Bowl win, and a few near misses. Maybe these changes will net more than one Super Bowl win in ten years, but the odds say that most teams don't even get that. The salary cap has something to say about that. 

[ConBro]

My thinking is, get to the dance as much as you can, and your odds increase of winning one. In other words , build a consistent and balanced team as best you can, and then you need a little luck , and hopefully get hot at the right time. 

 

I agree with this year's Colts have more of the puzzle pieces than last years. What I'm not sure I agree with is the notion that Polian wasn't trying to put together a balanced team. I think some years during Manning's run, some years were more balanced than others, however, it wasn't for lack of trying. You could apply the same thinking to the Ravens, who were more defensive minded, but tried to be more balanced in the offense. It's not like Irsay and Grigson reinvented the wheel here. 

 

As I've said, to go to Irsay's point, I understand why he had to pick and go with Luck for the long term, but it's almost like he was saying that Polian wasn't trying to get a balanced team. Now it may be fair to say he didn't succeed all the time, had some bad drafts at the end, signed some bad free agents , and hired his son, but overall , Polian did a great job for you guys. If you're fair-minded , you have to admit that. Most teams, if they're lucky, get one Super Bowl a decade, and you guys got yours in 2006. All I'm saying is Irsay should be more greatful to everyone, and not obsess on the ones that got away. It's fine if you want to go to bigger, stronger offensive and defensive lines,  and a power running game, but that may not net you more than one Super Bowl, or any at all.

 

Look, Earl Weaver with the Baltimore Orioles, won a single World Series during his tenure. He went 1-3, but is celebrated in Baltimore for a long period of time of continued excellence. Would we have loved to win some more World Series, sure, but sometimes you don't get the breaks, or the other team played better in a short seven game series. He now has a statue at Camden Yards.

 

A lot of you fans, and maybe even Irsay, have been spoiled by all the success, and not thankful for what you had. I don't get all the Polian hatred, when he, Irsay, and Manning all did a great job from 1998-2011. It's a record most franchises would die for. This is why this week, why would Irsay rake up all this stuff again, that's all I was saying. There is a time to bring that stuff up, but not this week with Manning coming back to Indy. And apparently, he is still tweeting today, with some new kind of song lyric proverb of his. Sorry, I just don't get it. 

Another thing to take into consideration is that the Polian administration used roughly 70% of cap space toward tooling the offense. 70% doesn't sound too balanced to me, personally.

 

Source: Jim Irsay tweet 10/16 "Prelude 2 what I was talking about-ORGANIZATIONAL Model n Team building/discussed with J Bell; we committed 70% of cap on Offense n some yrs"

[rittdk01]

So far the results are 11-5 and one and done. Suppose they are one and done again this year ? Will that be well rounded , or more of the same ?

That was this generation of Colts' first year together.  They weren't even supposed to sniff the playoffs for three years so anything better is icing on the cake. 

 

This is a version of the comment from Polian that was really pathetic don't paraphrase that trash. 

[adamthyst]

This is what I was believing all along and this article pretty much sums it up for me. Although I hope Fleener can adjust and improve though Allen is a better TE than him.

[The Old Crow]

Another thing to take into consideration is that the Polian administration used roughly 70% of cap space toward tooling the offense. 70% doesn't sound too balanced to me, personally.

Source: Jim Irsay tweet 10/16 "Prelude 2 what I was talking about-ORGANIZATIONAL Model n Team building/discussed with J Bell; we committed 70% of cap on Offense n some yrs"

I understand what you are saying, and you always strive for 50/50, but that almost never happens. We were the opposite of you in Baltimore with the defense.

Each year is different. When you draft, and go with the principle of best player available, you may end up with more offensive or defensive players , based on who is rated higher. Free agents are also dictated by need and injuries.

I am not sure if the Colts had a model to spend 70 % if the cap on offense , it just happened some years. Now maybe, the Colts kept a few older offensive players around and paid them, instead of releasing them and putting it into defense. Keeping older players is what got the Steelers in trouble. Keep in mind Polian had some nice defensive teams in Buffalo, so maybe it was circumstances and some bad decisions that created the imbalance. Still , it was a good run for the Colts.

[The Old Crow]

That was this generation of Colts' first year together. They weren't even supposed to sniff the playoffs for three years so anything better is icing on the cake.

This is a version of the comment from Polian that was really pathetic don't paraphrase that trash.

No , I think I said it was a great and unexpected year last year for the Colts, and great season for Luck.