Not liking our picks lately

[coltmb]

why would they play their opposite position

I could be wrong, but I dont remember Shipley ever being hurt last year, I remember him playing guard and someone else playing center tho. Could have been Troy Essex.

[VaAllDay757]

I'm not feeling our last two picks.....we didnt really need a Center and we have a gang of DT's I know we need depth but we're choosing in the wrong positions we need depth in our secondary we really only have 4 active corners we needed to draft one in the second or third round

[Case]

I do like the pick of Werner, but Im not high on our 3rd and 4th rounders. Both were reaches in my mind. Plus we still have a need for a 3rd corner if Davis or Toler gets injured. And RB could use a boost since I dont trust Brown or Carter.

The Holmes pick I really question and here is why...

Theres a 2 part explanation why I dont like this pick. One, it just seems as though we are copying what the Titans are doing, except with worse players. (They got Levitre, we got Thomas, they got Warmack, we got Thornton, they got Schwenke, we got Holmes).

2) Center should have been a postion we were ok at with both Satelle and Shipley. Now this pick shows that they were wrong about Satelle, and that was wasted money. Maybe our scouts' eye for free agents arent as good as we thought.

But hopefully Im wrong and these guys end up being good starters.

I remember people on here saying they didn't like the Allen or hilton picks last year. Worked out pretty well. I trust grigs.

[GoodLuck]

Draft sucked. Like waiting for Christmas and getting socks

[Mouthfire]

Fans never like it when their teams draft offensive linemen. It's just not "sexy"... and apart from a few big names, you don't know who they are.

This is an absolute beast of a draft to me. Our offensive line just got bigger, more athletic, and a lot meaner. There isnt anything about this draft that you shouldn't like.

[Junior]

Fans never like it when their teams draft offensive linemen. It's just not "sexy"... and apart from a few big names, you don't know who they are.

This is an absolute beast of a draft to me. Our offensive line just got bigger, more athletic, and a lot meaner. There isnt anything about this draft that you shouldn't like.

^ This.

Just cause we draft names you haven't heard of or people you don't like doesn't mean it's a bad draft. How many of us wanted Dwayne Allen after we picked Fleener, or ever heard of TY Hilton? Two studs, many didn't like those picks at the time, but how quick the tune changed over the season. Wait it out, I trust our talent evaluators enough to not disagree with any pick (besides a QB).

[Mouthfire]

^ This.

Just cause we draft names you haven't heard of or people you don't like doesn't mean it's a bad draft. How many of us wanted Dwayne Allen after we picked Fleener, or ever heard of TY Hilton? Two studs, many didn't like those picks at the time, but how quick the tune changed over the season. Wait it out, I trust our talent evaluators enough to not disagree with any pick (besides a QB).

 

Exactly.  Unless you're playing a skills position that gets your hands on the ball, it's really hard to be a known name to the fanbase unless you're from a big program.  Case in point: Barrett Jones.  Probably overrated by the fans because he's a known name from a big program.  In reality, probably not that good.

 

There are good trench players from lesser known programs.  You're just not going to know their names. 

[BOTT]

Draft sucked. Like waiting for Christmas and getting socks

....or birthing a child and getting you

[LoudandProud]

Draft sucked. Like waiting for Christmas and getting socks

 

The issue with the guys drafted is that there's no real upside.  Apparently Grigson (Griswold) is ultra-conservative.  Why the heck are we satisfied with our running back attack?  It's not good at all.  Jonathan Franklin should be on the team for what we got instead.

[Mouthfire]

The issue with the guys drafted is that there's no real upside.  Apparently Grigson (Griswold) is ultra-conservative.  Why the heck are we satisfied with our running back attack?  It's not good at all.  Jonathan Franklin should be on the team for what we got instead.

 

We upgraded our running attack.  We picked up Thornton and Holmes. 

[VaAllDay757]

^ This.

Just cause we draft names you haven't heard of or people you don't like doesn't mean it's a bad draft. How many of us wanted Dwayne Allen after we picked Fleener, or ever heard of TY Hilton? Two studs, many didn't like those picks at the time, but how quick the tune changed over the season. Wait it out, I trust our talent evaluators enough to not disagree with any pick (besides a QB).

 

It's not even that we drafted in a few positions we didnt need like DT, TE, C......we drafted a safety and no cornerback and that's where we most thin at as far as depth

[Colts_Fan12]

only pick i ever really thought Seattle's GM was crazy for was last years first rounder when they drafted DE Bruce Irvin lol.

Me too lol but look at Irvin now he is pretty good

[crazycolt1]

Center wasnt a huge area of need to me since Shipley performed well.

So we don't need a quality back up?  How about special teams play?  Some of these players just don't sit on the bench and do nothing. For a long time the Colts special teams were less than average. There is a bigger picture other than what you are looking at. 

[crazycolt1]

If we're gonna go center, why not trade up 8 spots or so, and get a clearly better center in either Schwenke or Jones? Id support that much more.

Why trade up and lose picks just because you think you know more than Grigson?

[Mouthfire]

 

^ This.

Just cause we draft names you haven't heard of or people you don't like doesn't mean it's a bad draft. How many of us wanted Dwayne Allen after we picked Fleener, or ever heard of TY Hilton? Two studs, many didn't like those picks at the time, but how quick the tune changed over the season. Wait it out, I trust our talent evaluators enough to not disagree with any pick (besides a QB).

 

It's not even that we drafted in a few positions we didnt need like DT, TE, C......we drafted a safety and no cornerback and that's where we most thin at as far as depth

 

 

We needed an upgrade at C, unless you really think Satele/Shipley will do the job.  I don't, and apparently neither does the Colts staff.  I can see the DT argument, but the last pick of the draft (TE) is essentially a throwaway. 

 

Really, though, these picks were about picking up value where the strength of the draft was... and that was offensive line, pass rushers, and defensive line.  You can get better cornerbacks, wide receivers, etc next year, when those positions are better stocked.  Remember, you're going to be reaching for picks if you try to fix everything at once.

[Harvey]

It was reported that there wasn't much difference in any of these guys after the 1st round. If that is true then why not pick from winning programs? Ohio state for instance. 3 players were picked from that shool.Plus others not drafted will sign as FA's.If we couldn't get a JJ Watt for defense or a Reggie Bush as a runner then go with winners. I don't believe in projects at this level.

[Mouthfire]

It was reported that there wasn't much difference in any of these guys after the 1st round. If that is true then why not pick from winning programs? Ohio state for instance. 3 players were picked from that shool.Plus others not drafted will sign as FA's.If we couldn't get a JJ Watt for defense or a Reggie Bush as a runner then go with winners. I don't believe in projects at this level.

If there's a slightly better player from a smaller school, compared to another from a bigger school, you better believe I'm picking the smaller school guy.

See: Eric Fischer vs Luke Joeckel.

[In Luck We Trust]

Why trade up and lose picks just because you think you know more than Grigson?

we traded up to get a 5th round pick, and now we lost our 4th for next year. but honestly i believe Grigson dropped the ball on Holmes. a guy who has no lower body strength, has had injuries the last two season, but satelle is really no better either. but like the guy you responded to i gotta agree, it would have been better to trade up and get schwenke or Jones. or drafted them in the 3rd instead of the Tackle we got from Illinois. but oh well, im satisfied with the draft, with the exception of holmes lol. 

[VaAllDay757]

We needed an upgrade at C, unless you really think Satele/Shipley will do the job.  I don't, and apparently neither does the Colts staff.  I can see the DT argument, but the last pick of the draft (TE) is essentially a throwaway. 

 

Really, though, these picks were about picking up value where the strength of the draft was... and that was offensive line, pass rushers, and defensive line.  You can get better cornerbacks, wide receivers, etc next year, when those positions are better stocked.  Remember, you're going to be reaching for picks if you try to fix everything at once.

Satele wasnt that bad when he got hurt that's when things took a turn for the worse.......but not only did we get a DT we traded up for him which to me makes it even worse because we should've traded up for someone more worthy this guy might just make the practice squad and not even get some playing time but we'll see how things turn out

[Crunked]

I think this draft was about the trenches, and depth there of......"iron sharpens iron, like man sharpens man"  is apparently the phrase of choice with this new regime, in the Manning Era we tried to get the best skill position guys, and plug and play everywhere else....this regime is build a solid, deep core, and get just enough skill players.......its a different line of thinking, and given that we just lived a decade of winning, and (1) SB crown......I am willing to see if we can get more bling by doing it another way........it seems that other franchises have generated more hardware doing it the way we are now.....Pats, Steelers, Ravens all come to mind.

[JPFolks]

I am very disappointed with many of picks and FA's.  The most disappointed in our #1 pick who has the same flaws in a 3-4 as Freeney and we let him go without any offer of any kind, not even a low ball offer which he openly said he'd take just to finish with the Colts.   I am not the only one who feels this way either.  Grade after grade from every reputable expert I have seen rate us no better than a C range or worse.  SI pretty much nailed it, here's a short quote from them, see if it rings true to you: 

 

"Their top pick, Bjoern Werner, has a long way to go before he can be a reliable 3-4 OLB — he was a better fit for a 4-3. And just about every pick here comes with some hesitation. G Hugh Thornton is pretty raw, DT Montori Hughes carries significant red flags and S John Boyett had issues with both knees. Hard to see it all falling into place for this group. Grade: C"  

 

I just don't get it.  It's one thing to take a risk on one player and hope for the best, but for so many to have major question marks seems beyond a leap of faith.  I am not suggesting I know more than anyone at all.  But my concerns have been repeated by so many and I haven't seen anyone rate us above the bottom half or lower of the draft this year?  Building lineman is logical and fine with me.  But even those choices are odd Crunked?  And where are the CB depth players when we passed on so many quality starter level guys? Isn't Thornton as much a case of "my guy"-ism as it is "I know this guys talent"-ism when so few others graded him on that level?  Isn't simple favoritism possible?  I am just a fan, but some of these experts are solid professionals in their views.  

 

Now, I will move forward, cheer these guys on and hope I am 100% wrong and Grigson and Co. have once again lapped the field and will be the first to cheer on my lack of perception.   Go Colts! 

[BOTT]

I am very disappointed with many of picks and FA's.  The most disappointed in our #1 pick who has the same flaws in a 3-4 as Freeney and we let him go without any offer of any kind, not even a low ball offer which he openly said he'd take just to finish with the Colts.   I am not the only one who feels this way either.  Grade after grade from every reputable expert I have seen rate us no better than a C range or worse.  SI pretty much nailed it, here's a short quote from them, see if it rings true to you: 

 

"Their top pick, Bjoern Werner, has a long way to go before he can be a reliable 3-4 OLB — he was a better fit for a 4-3. And just about every pick here comes with some hesitation. G Hugh Thornton is pretty raw, DT Montori Hughes carries significant red flags and S John Boyett had issues with both knees. Hard to see it all falling into place for this group. Grade: C"  

 

I just don't get it.  It's one thing to take a risk on one player and hope for the best, but for so many to have major question marks seems beyond a leap of faith.  I am not suggesting I know more than anyone at all.  But my concerns have been repeated by so many and I haven't seen anyone rate us above the bottom half or lower of the draft this year?  Building lineman is logical and fine with me.  But even those choices are odd Crunked?  And where are the CB depth players when we passed on so many quality starter level guys? Isn't Thornton as much a case of "my guy"-ism as it is "I know this guys talent"-ism when so few others graded him on that level?  Isn't simple favoritism possible?  I am just a fan, but some of these experts are solid professionals in their views.  

 

Now, I will move forward, cheer these guys on and hope I am 100% wrong and Grigson and Co. have once again lapped the field and will be the first to cheer on my lack of perception.   Go Colts!

Freeney failed in the 34 because he isn't the player he once was or just had a poor season. Did these "experts" actually watch the colts play? How often did freeney actually drop back? The fact is, freeney had his hand in the ground the vast majority of the time...these nit wits are just regurgitating nonsense.

[JPFolks]

Freeney failed in the 34 because he isn't the player he once was or just had a poor season. Did these "experts" actually watch the colts play? How often did freeney actually drop back? The fact is, freeney had his hand in the ground the vast majority of the time...these nit wits are just regurgitating *.

Using your own comment, they were forced to play Freeney more like a 4-3 end due to his limitations.  So why draft another guy who we have to play more like a 4-3 end when we're a 3-4 team?  Wouldn't you want a guy who could pass defend AND play like a down end pass rusher?  Why draft a 4-3 guy when we need a solid 3-4 guy for the defense we're running? I think it is a fair question.  Why would it make them nitwits? 

[BOTT]

Using your own comment, they were forced to play Freeney more like a 4-3 end due to his limitations.  So why draft another guy who we have to play more like a 4-3 end when we're a 3-4 team?  Wouldn't you want a guy who could pass defend AND play like a down end pass rusher?  Why draft a 4-3 guy when we need a solid 3-4 guy for the defense we're running? I think it is a fair question.  Why would it make them nitwits?

Because it depends how you use the OLB....guys like Terrell Suggs, Demarcus Ware, Tamba Hali don't fall back in coverage very often and if they do it's just a short drop into space....and that Werner can do no problem.

[horseshoepower]

You just can't rate a draft before they play the games, the preseason is when rookies have the opportunity to show what they can do. there was no way they could have had another draft like last year, drafting 24 spots lower in each round.

[ColtsFanatic21]

I understand drafting Lineman...but I personally wanted a game changing CB to team up with the others that we have.!

[Archer]

This draft is gowing on me somewhat.  I think we did what we needed to on the interior of the line.  I was really hoping for Winters in round three after we went OLB in the 1st, but he was gone by the time we picked.  Hugh Thornton is about the best we could hope, and the more I read about him, the more I like him.  Not an instant starter, but if they go into TC calling McGlynn the starting RG, then I imagine Thornton will be the starter by Game 1.  To me, the Khaled Holmes pick is because the team plans to ditch Satele.  I saw nothing last year that suggests Samson deserves a roster spot.  I never read any scouting reports on Holmes that said much positive, but I'm willing to see what he does.  Montori Hughes - should be another strong presence on the DL, plus Grigson said he has catlike quickness.  No qualms about this pick.  Boyett is low-risk, potentially high-reward in the 6th.  Both 7ths sound good to me, and they're the only two I hadn't heard of.  Overall, I think we had an unsexy, but productive, draft.

[Archer]

Oh, my one big complaint was that we never drafted any OTs.  But, I consistently mock drafted Emmett Cleary to us in the 6th round, and we signed him as an undrafted FA.  So, I can't really can't complain about that...

[chrisfarley]

I do like the pick of Werner, but Im not high on our 3rd and 4th rounders. Both were reaches in my mind. Plus we still have a need for a 3rd corner if Davis or Toler gets injured. And RB could use a boost since I dont trust Brown or Carter.

 

The Holmes pick I really question and here is why...

 

Theres a 2 part explanation why I dont like this pick. One, it just seems as though we are copying what the Titans are doing, except with worse players. (They got Levitre, we got Thomas, they got Warmack, we got Thornton, they got Schwenke, we got Holmes).

 

2) Center should have been a postion we were ok at with both Satelle and Shipley. Now this pick shows that they were wrong about Satelle, and that was wasted money. Maybe our scouts' eye for free agents arent as good as we thought.

 

But hopefully Im wrong and these guys end up being good starters.

 

Yea, been hearing that a lot lately.  Is it that Grigs messed up and picked a 5th rounder in the 3rd round, and a 6th rounder in the 4th round?  That's the analogy I am hearing now, that we got these HUGE reaches and whatever...bla bla..   not sure, which I knew for sure.  Sometimes, these late round picks dont even make the team.  Probably pretty likely they will get cut anyway and then we don;t have to pay them and then listen to people complain for the next 4 years like was the case with Jerry Hughes, who Polian wouldn't get rid of if nothing else for the EGO factor that comes with a Bill Polian.

[Luckynumber12]

we have good depth at corner  the UDFA CB we signed i think acouple will make it  

 

this draft is what i expected .. i dont see why everyone one is * about the draft picks   your all * when luck gets hit 50 + times then when they draft guys to help ?

 

Thornton is a beast i watched alot of illinois games he is a good solid pro

 

Holmes has injuries but when he played he was a decent pass blocker but more ideal for guard

[DerpDahHerp]

What is everyone complaining about?  A team starts from the trenches... you think about all the best teams right now, 49ers, Ravens, Patriots, Seahawks, Broncos -- they all have great offensive lines that can protect their QB's and on the defensive side they have a stout front 7.  Your teams get better through the trenches.  If the front 7 starts dominating and getting pressure your corners look better, if your offensive line blocks really well you r RB and QB look better.  It all starts from there and thats where we're putting our focus.

 

Just some breaking news I guarantee that more than likely most of you don't know more than Grigson and Pagano... they see something in these guys that you don't.  I'm pretty sure they know what kind of player that is going to fit their scheme more than anyone else.  So what if they don't pan out... thats what happens in the draft, you're making an educated guess on whos going to do well.  So if they don't do well, cool you got lucky and called it right... if they do well you'll probably come back later on saying you had liked that pick all way back when.

 

People complaining about not taking a RB/CB/WR... you don't fix all your problems on a football team over night.  We're not going to fill in every little hole we have in one offseason.  You try to improve every year which I think we have improved this year compared to last year as a football team.  There is always next year to draft a CB or start looking for a replacement for Reggie... it is not the end of the world... calm down.  What is done is done and have faith in the coaches and front office.

[Black-Vell]

I do like the pick of Werner, but Im not high on our 3rd and 4th rounders. Both were reaches in my mind. Plus we still have a need for a 3rd corner if Davis or Toler gets injured. And RB could use a boost since I dont trust Brown or Carter.

 

The Holmes pick I really question and here is why...

 

Theres a 2 part explanation why I dont like this pick. One, it just seems as though we are copying what the Titans are doing, except with worse players. (They got Levitre, we got Thomas, they got Warmack, we got Thornton, they got Schwenke, we got Holmes).

 

2) Center should have been a postion we were ok at with both Satelle and Shipley. Now this pick shows that they were wrong about Satelle, and that was wasted money. Maybe our scouts' eye for free agents arent as good as we thought.

 

But hopefully Im wrong and these guys end up being good starters.

No matter what reasons or even valid points you make in a thread like this - this is what we hear:

 

"I dont like how the 2 men that J Irsay is paying to make the big decisions - are making their decisions and they should listen to me because I can do their job better than them without any of their resources."

 

You cant win this argument - at least not today. Its not the time to question the draft. The time just ended for us to question last years draft - but you know what - you just like me - didnt have any questions.

 

So why am I seeing so many complaints? On our GM's watch - we went from 2 wins to 11 & his reward is constant disrespect and distrust.

 

We are all anxious to see what we got - but at least let them show it on the field before you give up ur bandwagon seat.    

[JPFolks]

Black Veil, 

 

Because it's a message board where fans can offer their opinions as part of the fun.  I have seen far less questioning of picking lineman than everyone seems to claim and more about who was picked.  In each round, you look at the next 10 picks or so and think.. hmmm.. that guys sure seems like less of a reach than the one we picked.   If we're not allowed to banter about stuff like this during the offseason, then shut down the boards, or post rules stating you must 100% agree with everything the team does at each stage they do it because it might work out great in the future.   So it seems to me that if you're bothered by people voicing their opinions, why are you on a message board that exists for that purpose? 

 

Looks, some of these guys could turn out to be BRILLIANT picks... IF we're lucky and we beat the odds.  That will be cool and a great, fun thing to see happen.  But, just as easily, each reach could fall short or fail.  I realize they say they want competition... but I think I'd rather have a stud who will walk in, blow out the competition and start without a doubt instead of a lot of guys who are likely back-up material getting to fight to be the back-up that rises to the top of a group of back-ups.  All these guys could turn into starters potentially.  Anyone that is drafted COULD be a long shot who makes good.. but why not choose guys who established in college that they are not long shots and in fact the surprise won't be if they pass the mettle of competition, but instead we'd be surprised if they didn't easily take the spot.  We took Luck because he was by far the best sure thing out there.  Wilson was the little engine that could that beat the odds and did well.  But we chose smartly the guy clearly with the most likely upside.  So when we get away from that idea on some of these picks, fans, on a message board, can banter about them.  None of us will be proven right or wrong until the season, but by then we'll be talking about completely different topics.  Have some fun... don't take it all so seriously.  For the most part, as far as I can see, everyone here wants the team to do well.  Why do we all need to shut up until there's nothing more to talk about during the offseason? 

[wordofmouth]

I think the claim "they reached" is probably the worste criticism out there.  Basicly it is saying the teams board, based on what they are looking fo,r is not as good as my( the expert)  overall generic board.  When someone says "they could have had the guy they drafted in the 3rd round in the 4th"

A) They have no idea if that is true or not.

B) they are saying it from the comfort of there living room and will never be held accountable for their opinions. It is easy for them to roll the dice. But if a team likes a guy they have to take him. All it takes is one team, maybe 31 picks later to take someone, and then the team on the loosing end is sayng "darn we should have drafted him last round."

 

In a matter of time, no one will remember who was drafted where. The question will be "did you get guys that can help your team

in your system" ? Hopefully the answer is yes.

I remember Bill Parcells being asked about how he thought different teams did in the draft one year. In typical Parcells fashon, he said "that's a stupid question, what matters is what the teams do with the players they drafted. It's about winning games, not winning the draft"

[Monster]

If we're gonna go center, why not trade up 8 spots or so, and get a clearly better center in either Schwenke or Jones? Id support that much more.

Yeah Great idea..with only five original picks we blow up the rest of our draft  to do it.

[CoachLite]

This discussion has been fun to follow.  A football team is not just a collection of players that play certain roles.  If it were, a team would totally depend on the talent and skills of the individual players, and the analyst's (and pundits) grading would have more meaning. (The Jets or the old Redskins would have been Super Bowl champs if that were true.)  But a football team doesn't work as a collection of individual players.  It works by the collective interaction of the players and coaches as a team.  People call those factors, intangibles. More like invisibles. That fact is overlooked because it is hard, maybe impossible, to measure, in advance.  It makes sleepers look like superstars.

 

Let's see what happens when it all comes together. No guarantees, but I'm starting to get a good feeling about this team.