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unitaswestand

Is Recent Drafting Really So Bad?

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I would be curious about how you all weigh in on the Colts drafts over the last 4-5 drafts. So often I hear about how missing on high picks like Brown, Ugoh, Pollak, and Hughes has put the team back so far. But has it really? What I mean is if you take the draft as whole instead of slotting picks, one could argue we come out with very good players. For example, in the 2008 draft, we got Pollak but also Pierce Garcon. 2009 we pick Brown at #1, but one could argue that Austin Collie and Jerrald Powers both play much better than the position they are drafted. I remember reading an article after the 2009 season where they did a draft scenerio after the season, and Collie was a #1 pick. So it seems that if you look at the drafts in the Polian era, you are getting about the same amount of players out of each draft. One could argue Jerraud Powers is as good at his position as Dallas Clark is at his. So, yeah, it would be nice if all the #1 were Pro Bowlers, but has the drafts really been that bad?

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People love the picks when they are made, but hate them after a few years. The same people who say "Drafting ______ is a great pick because ______" will turn around a year later and say "I never wanted us to draft him". Polian is a very good scout of talent and is very good at drafting. Not all first round picks will be successful and what many of us fail to realize is that hindsight is always 20/20. Knowing what he knows now, I'm sure Polian wouldn't have drafted Gonzo in the first round or Brown in the first round. No point in lamenting over the pick, the team will use the players the best they can and when their contract is up, their play will determine if they deserve to be re-signed or not

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Well, I think enough credit isn't given to lower picks. For example, I remember how much flack there was for drafting Pat Angerer. Yet, I believe if he was playing MLB all the time, he would be like another Zack Thomas.

You make a good point about people loving the picks at the time. I LOVED the Jerry Hughes pick. After coming off the Super Bowl loss because of losing Freeney's effectiveness in the Super Bowl, I thought it was a great pick. And how many guys out there were we rumored to be taking that haven't amount to much, like Peria Jerry?

I think we will look back at this years draft as one of the best Colt drafts in the last 10 years.

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I think we will look back at this years draft as one of the best Colt drafts in the last 10 years.

I completely agree. And I've offered the opinion elsewhere on this forum that in total the last three drafts (plus UFAs) have been as good as any other three year period in the Polian era. It's just the lack of superstars coming out of the first round that gets your attention - but Castonzo may well get there, Hughes needs more time to develop, and Brown still has a chance to turn it around as well.

And by the way Gonzalez is a legitimate first round talent. In my opinion he is the second best WR on the team when healthy. I wouldn't give up on him.

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Recently the 1st and 2nd round picks have been bad, real bad. Donald Brown... bust, Jerry Hughes... probably a bust, Tony Ugoh...bust, Anthony Gonzalez...bust, Pat Angerer... :thmup: , Mike Pollak... so so. It was good in the early to mid 00's, but I must say the later rounds have been great in general for the last 7 years.

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Well, I think enough credit isn't given to lower picks. For example, I remember how much flack there was for drafting Pat Angerer. Yet, I believe if he was playing MLB all the time, he would be like another Zack Thomas.

You make a good point about people loving the picks at the time. I LOVED the Jerry Hughes pick. After coming off the Super Bowl loss because of losing Freeney's effectiveness in the Super Bowl, I thought it was a great pick. And how many guys out there were we rumored to be taking that haven't amount to much, like Peria Jerry?

I think we will look back at this years draft as one of the best Colt drafts in the last 10 years.

2011 draft, yes, I believe will be the turnaround year where we will have future Pro Bowlers, IMO but the ones that should be contributing big time now in our rotation would be the drafts of 2007 & 2008. Garcon and Pollak have been in and out, and inconsistent over these years, Wheeler and Tamme are valuable on ST but second string still. Gonzo is eternally hurt. Session is gone to the Jags. Outside a back up TE, LB, OL, and inconsistent WR, we have not gotten much from those 2 years of drafting. Gonzo is one I do not blame on Polian whatsoever. We drafted 3 centers in 2008, and got one back up OL out of it. I will still give this year to evaluate the 2009 draft since I personally believe it takes 3 years to tell if a draft class has been good or not. But 2007 & 2008 have just not worked out.

Btw, Peria Jerry has been in the rotation this year consistently for the Falcons and Jerry Hughes is yet to crack the rotation, let alone be a starter. It has been a combination of the players and coaching as well, IMO.

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Recently the 1st and 2nd round picks have been bad, real bad. Donald Brown... bust, Jerry Hughes... probably a bust, Tony Ugoh...bust, Anthony Gonzalez...bust, Pat Angerer... :thmup: , Mike Pollak... so so. It was good in the early to mid 00's, but I must say the later rounds have been great in general for the last 7 years.

Yea, it's a shame we didn't draft that Ryan Leaf kid to expand on that record. We probably would have, if Peyton didn't tell the management about kicking their butts for the next 10 years. That's what our current Colts team needs right now... good butt kickers.

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People love the picks when they are made, but hate them after a few years. The same people who say "Drafting ______ is a great pick because ______" will turn around a year later and say "I never wanted us to draft him". Polian is a very good scout of talent and is very good at drafting. Not all first round picks will be successful and what many of us fail to realize is that hindsight is always 20/20. Knowing what he knows now, I'm sure Polian wouldn't have drafted Gonzo in the first round or Brown in the first round. No point in lamenting over the pick, the team will use the players the best they can and when their contract is up, their play will determine if they deserve to be re-signed or not

I will admit that I have done that, but I don't have the same information that the front office has. The thing that I have notices is that I was able to use a prospect sorter on NFL.com or ESPN.com to pick out some of these players. It honestly makes me wonder what is going on in the front office. But it really boils down to a lot more than just drafting. We have also made a lot of boneheaded personnel moves on the offensive line that were not related to the draft.

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I would be curious about how you all weigh in on the Colts drafts over the last 4-5 drafts. So often I hear about how missing on high picks like Brown, Ugoh, Pollak, and Hughes has put the team back so far. But has it really? What I mean is if you take the draft as whole instead of slotting picks, one could argue we come out with very good players. For example, in the 2008 draft, we got Pollak but also Pierce Garcon. 2009 we pick Brown at #1, but one could argue that Austin Collie and Jerrald Powers both play much better than the position they are drafted. I remember reading an article after the 2009 season where they did a draft scenerio after the season, and Collie was a #1 pick. So it seems that if you look at the drafts in the Polian era, you are getting about the same amount of players out of each draft. One could argue Jerraud Powers is as good at his position as Dallas Clark is at his. So, yeah, it would be nice if all the #1 were Pro Bowlers, but has the drafts really been that bad?

"One could argue Jerraud Powers is as good at his position as Dallas Clark is at his." yeah.....not really

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I just wasted 2+ hours of my life watching, "The Tree of Life," with Brad Pitt and 3 minutes of Sean Penn. Worst movie ever.

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People love the picks when they are made, but hate them after a few years. The same people who say "Drafting ______ is a great pick because ______" will turn around a year later and say "I never wanted us to draft him". Polian is a very good scout of talent and is very good at drafting. Not all first round picks will be successful and what many of us fail to realize is that hindsight is always 20/20. Knowing what he knows now, I'm sure Polian wouldn't have drafted Gonzo in the first round or Brown in the first round. No point in lamenting over the pick, the team will use the players the best they can and when their contract is up, their play will determine if they deserve to be re-signed or not

There are a lot of people that do that but it is true that we do not have near the tape and scouting that the FO has. When we drafted Donald, I hoped that we would take James Lauinitis, and when we drafted Hughes, I hoped for drafting Brandon Graham, who was taken earlier, or Taylor Mays for our first round picks. This year I was hoping for Castonzo, but I thought he would be taken earlier. I also liked Corey Liuget and Pouncey and Paea.

For next year I like Justin Blackmon and Ashlon Jeffery so far, but I dont look into draft picks much until our season is over.

But I agree once a pick is made we just have to hope for the best and trust that the FO and Coaches kno how to use them the best way. Im hoping that this years draft is a turn around and gets us back on track.

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Recently the 1st and 2nd round picks have been bad, real bad. Donald Brown... bust, Jerry Hughes... probably a bust, Tony Ugoh...bust, Anthony Gonzalez...bust, Pat Angerer... :thmup: , Mike Pollak... so so. It was good in the early to mid 00's, but I must say the later rounds have been great in general for the last 7 years.

I can see Donald Brown, Ugoh, and Pollack but .....

I don't know why everyone insists on calling Anthony Gonzalez a bust. While I agree he does not contribute much to the team, for the 30 seconds he was healthy he was good. Not like Polian could forsee him being constantly injured and I don't think you can count him technically as a bust.

I also think people are jumping on Hughes as a bust a little prematurely, no he hasn't shown much yet and yes he may indeed turn out to be a bust ... but this is only his second year I don't think we should jump the gun. I also think if we had a creative DC or HC we might be able to find more ways to use Hughes.

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I would be curious about how you all weigh in on the Colts drafts over the last 4-5 drafts. So often I hear about how missing on high picks like Brown, Ugoh, Pollak, and Hughes has put the team back so far. But has it really? What I mean is if you take the draft as whole instead of slotting picks, one could argue we come out with very good players. For example, in the 2008 draft, we got Pollak but also Pierce Garcon. 2009 we pick Brown at #1, but one could argue that Austin Collie and Jerrald Powers both play much better than the position they are drafted. I remember reading an article after the 2009 season where they did a draft scenerio after the season, and Collie was a #1 pick. So it seems that if you look at the drafts in the Polian era, you are getting about the same amount of players out of each draft. One could argue Jerraud Powers is as good at his position as Dallas Clark is at his. So, yeah, it would be nice if all the #1 were Pro Bowlers, but has the drafts really been that bad?

Yes they have.

The problem with relying on just the draft to build your team is that when you start missing on guys, you get set back in a hurry. The miss on Ugoh several years back is still costing us. Had to use 2 more picks this year on O line. If Ugoh pans out, perhaps we can use that pick last year for other areas of need on this team. Brown not working out made keeping Addai a must. I think the plan was for Brown to eventually replace Joe. We could have used that money elsewhere if Brown worked out. We also used another pick last draft on a RB. Hughes not working out means we probably have to keep Mathis. I think the plan there was Hughes would eventually let us let go of Mathis. Now we probably have to pay, again, that is money that could have went elsewhere but due to bad drafting will need to be spent out of necessity at the position.

And it's not just the first round draft choices, the total draft classes lately have been horrible. I think this past years draft will be ok, but before that they were pretty bad with the exception of 2009 and even that class i think has a lot of guys who are overrated by some in the fan base.

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They've gotten some good value for the later round picks. However, when you look at the contribution these 1st rounds picks have made you have to say it was REALLY bad.

2010 - Hughes -- total bust so far.

2009 - Brown - 3rd team back that has yet to carry the ball in 2011. Has had a few good moments, but not enough.

2008 - No 1st Rd pick, Pollack was 1st pick late in Rd 2.

2007 - Gonzalez - The Bob Sanders of the offense. Lots of talent, no ability to stay on the field.

Part of their "problem" is that they haven't had an early pick in Rd 1 -- that will change next April - and picking in the late 20's / 30's in the Rd will have some more risk.

However....Look at the guys they've taken with their 1st pick recently and they havent gotten anything out of them recenetly. By definition, if you draft a guy and he's not helping your team....I think it has to go down as a fail.

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People love the picks when they are made, but hate them after a few years. The same people who say "Drafting ______ is a great pick because ______" will turn around a year later and say "I never wanted us to draft him". Polian is a very good scout of talent and is very good at drafting. Not all first round picks will be successful and what many of us fail to realize is that hindsight is always 20/20. Knowing what he knows now, I'm sure Polian wouldn't have drafted Gonzo in the first round or Brown in the first round. No point in lamenting over the pick, the team will use the players the best they can and when their contract is up, their play will determine if they deserve to be re-signed or not

The problem I think Polian is having is he is trying to be to cute with his picks and goes against the mainstream evaluators. I think he is trying to finesse the draft picks and take players that have athletic talent but don't fit a lot of other teams (for a reason) and then trys to make this team 180 degrees from the normal. It worked with some other talented players/coaches in the mix but now, we are void of those key positions.

We never succeeded with the true tampa defense except when we had a healthy Cory Simon or Booger holding that middle in the tampa mold. On offense, we had a solid LT in Tarik and a younger smart tactition in Saturday anchoring the middle of the oline. We had a WR who could get it down field and a RB who had excellent vision. Polian could afford to add players that missed or just contributed but not neccessarily dominate at their position. Now, those excellent players are gone and Polian is still drafting missed talent.

The proof is Polian is taking swings at players who have a lot of potential to tap into but they forwhatever don't pan out. You look at these guys, Pitcock, Gonzo, Donald Brown, Hughes, Pollack, Ugho etc... All of these guys have talent they displayed in some form in college. Were they all played against top level talent or were they scewed by lower ranked division teams? Ugho had the sky is the ceiling label or a Leaf like bust, he busted Ryan Leaf style. Pollack was deemed the best at his position, he has failed badly. Pitcock was supposedly a difference maker but lost it, fail. Brown led the nation in rushing I believe and he can't get out of the backfield in the NFL, fail (but his oline hasn't helped him). Hughes has been the biggest disappointment in a high draft pick in Indy in a long time. Can't make the active day roster in his second year, rediculous failure. Gonzo does have the talent and has proven he can play with the best, he just doesn't have a body that can play with them. Not a fail but just terrible luck.

I think Polia really needs to take a look at what and how he is evaluating his talent pool now. I think he needs to not take those large swings and outthink everyone else and go for the more traditional picks. He needs to either go get a DT that can allow lesser talented gys to succeed because they have a constant in the DT spot or he needs to make that spot a priority in the first round of the draft. He is also going to have to get that RT spot solved because as of now, there is not enough talent on that line to make up for an average RG/RT spot. Ijalana has the potential but so has Pollack, Richard, McClenddon etc... and they all failed.

Select better Polian don't try to be cuter and smarter than everyone else in the NFL just so you can say see, I told you so. That worked when you took Freeney so early in the first but your resume hasn't panned out so well since then.

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I threw my remote at my TV when the Colts picked Donald Brown over Chris Wells. I was called stupid when Brown outperformed Wells their rookie year, but who's laughing now? Not me, I'm still mad.

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Yes, I'm so tired of having linebackers that are small and get pushed around the field. I know you guys love angerer but he gets blown up just like Gary B.

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Our drafting in the late rounds is good. But when it comes to dealing with guys who can make immediate impacts, we can't draft at all.

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Yes, I'm so tired of having linebackers that are small and get pushed around the field. I know you guys love angerer but he gets blown up just like Gary B.

I +1'd your post just for your name and avatar combo. Also because I'm sick of having smurfs at LB as well.

To the point of the thread though, the draft is a tricky thing. Our later round picks have been solid as always. But these 1st round busts are really hard to overcome. You can build a good supporting cast with later round picks, as the Colts have done as well as anyone in Polian's tenure. But your real stars, the ones who make a big impact on Sundays, they come from the 1st round.

Now, drafting in the last 5 picks of the 1st round every year makes it even harder to find those stars. The NFL = parity, and the Colts (read: Peyton Manning) have done a great job eluding the parity for the most part. That's why last year and this year are really blessings in disguise. The fact that we had a great draft last year in the middle of each round, and we'll have another chance at a great draft in the top of each round this year is HUGE for this franchise moving forward. We get Manning back next year with a host of talented second year guys and rookies who will make a difference from Day 1, and they get 4 years together to try to win another title before #18 retires.

The real beef I have, and probably most fans have, is that the positions we've drafted haven't always made sense. Drafting Brown in the 1st round was a waste of a pick. We did not need to invest in a backup RB that early, and if we did, LeSean McCoy went late in the next round. But a guy like James Laurinaitis would have made more sense. Picking up Jerry Hughes made some sense, but Roger Saffold went just two picks later, and then Taylor Mays went 16 picks after him--both positions we needed to address before backup DE. The fact that both of those guys are busts only compounds the frustration.

In '07, taking Gonzalez and Ugoh was just a miss, but it was at least an attempt to draft the right position. In fact, that entire draft was a miss. Gonzo, Ugoh, Dante Hughes, Quinn Pitcock, Brannon Condren, Clint Session, Roy Hall, Michael Coe, Keyunta Dawson. Only one of those guys is still on our roster, and he's always injured. Session is the only gem in this batch, and we let him get away.

I do have confidence in the upcoming draft. I'm really hoping we miss out on the Luck Lottery, because I just don't think the timing is right and I don't see how taking Luck now helps us utilize the last few years of Manning's career to its full potential. I'm hoping for a top 5 pick though, and drafting a guy like Vontaze Burfict. I want an immediate impact player on defense.

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People love the picks when they are made, but hate them after a few years. The same people who say "Drafting ______ is a great pick because ______" will turn around a year later and say "I never wanted us to draft him". Polian is a very good scout of talent and is very good at drafting. Not all first round picks will be successful and what many of us fail to realize is that hindsight is always 20/20. Knowing what he knows now, I'm sure Polian wouldn't have drafted Gonzo in the first round or Brown in the first round. No point in lamenting over the pick, the team will use the players the best they can and when their contract is up, their play will determine if they deserve to be re-signed or not

not true, I had a different log in back when we drafted donald brown. needless to say, I don't have that log in anymore because I got suspeneded for arguing with some "know it all moderator" about how bad the donald brown pick was. I remember a majority of fans did not like the brown pick back then. There were some Brown lovers, who were just addai haters.

Is the Gm for the Texans, the one who got fired for not drafting Reggie Bush, around? we should hire him to consult the polians.+3620

-6-66666666666666666666666

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I would be curious about how you all weigh in on the Colts drafts over the last 4-5 drafts. So often I hear about how missing on high picks like Brown, Ugoh, Pollak, and Hughes has put the team back so far. But has it really? What I mean is if you take the draft as whole instead of slotting picks, one could argue we come out with very good players. For example, in the 2008 draft, we got Pollak but also Pierce Garcon. 2009 we pick Brown at #1, but one could argue that Austin Collie and Jerrald Powers both play much better than the position they are drafted. I remember reading an article after the 2009 season where they did a draft scenerio after the season, and Collie was a #1 pick. So it seems that if you look at the drafts in the Polian era, you are getting about the same amount of players out of each draft. One could argue Jerraud Powers is as good at his position as Dallas Clark is at his. So, yeah, it would be nice if all the #1 were Pro Bowlers, but has the drafts really been that bad?

come on, every team has late round picks or undrafted FA who are good. the bills have a whole team of them. Why do you think we won the Superbowl, was it due to drafting "solid" guys late? No, we had our first rounders playing like first round talent. and 2nd rounders as well, then you add the solid "late" guys and now you win the superbowl.

2006 team first rounders

Wayne

clark

manning

addai

marlin jackson - was playing well then

freeney

glenn

2nd

sanders

hayden

now add in the late round talent:

mathis

scott

saturday

etc etc etc

Who do we have now out of our recent 1st rounders? nothing but future canadian league or arena league talent. that means no superbowl

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For next year I like Justin Blackmon and Ashlon Jeffery so far, but I dont look into draft picks much until our season is over.

I agree with Jeffrey but I'd take Michael Floyd over Blackmon any day. Floyd plays a lot like Jeffrey and is similar in size. I just haven't seen anything from Blackmon that really stands out makes me think he'd be better than Floyd.

You can add Quinton Peacock or whatever his name is to the bust category. He was our first pick one year although not taken in the first round.

ok yeah that was a bust but you can't put that on Polian....there's no way anyone could have known the guy would retire partially due to video game addiction lol

Yes, I'm so tired of having linebackers that are small and get pushed around the field. I know you guys love angerer but he gets blown up just like Gary B.

I'm not completely sold on Angerer either, but at the same time I do think he's an upgrade over the majority of LBs in the past like Gardner (ugh), Keiaho, June, and Hagler....and of that group Hagler was the best but I still think Angry Pat is an upgrade over him too. I can't tell you though how much I'd like to get Manti Te'o of Notre dame....MLB, 6'2" and 250 lbs. People actually have to start respecting our LB core then. :D

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Yes, I'm so tired of having linebackers that are small and get pushed around the field. I know you guys love angerer but he gets blown up just like Gary B.

i couldn't agree more! it seems like most of angerer's tackles are 5 yards down field. i have been saying this for a long time.

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i couldn't agree more! it seems like most of angerer's tackles are 5 yards down field. i have been saying this for a long time.

This wouldn't happen if we had a stout D-line. Could our LBers stand to be a little bigger? Sure, but its not the main problem. I've been saying for yrs. a good team is built from the inside out. In other words, a good o-line and d-line. The problem is were built from the outside in. We have good skill players but below average trench guys on both sides of the ball. We could easily survive with our LBers if we had a stout d-line.

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