lets say we dont go after a wr

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I say we go after Ramses Barden for our number 2 reciever.........

 

Somebody brought him up earlier. I like him. But he doesn't appear to be a burner who can force opposing defenses into uncomfortable positions. What little tape I saw of him had him running more short, intermediate and underneath routes. Those are Reggie's bread and butter now. Not sure we'd need two similar WRs like that. But....you never know. ;)

[sultan5]

Look, Fellas, to say that Luck will be better next year is the same as saying Avery will, too. Last year was Avery's rookie year all over again. Brand new team, new playbook for everybody including the Quarterback, new team mates, Rookie QB, sharing playing-time with a young phenom like T.Y., a one year contract, and a whole lot to prove all over again. He did great. Imagine what he will be like next year after a year like this one? Now that every one knows each other, and is more in-tune with each other? I hope they re-sign him and i cant wait to see him play next year.

[coltsfanatic24]

Brazil has a lot of potential and more consistent then Avery he should be the 3rd WR.

[sultan5]

Yep. It may well be that we've decided to let him walk and T.Y. is the next man up. But I'd hate to lose him. I remember when we REALLY did not have any WR depth. Now that was a time to complain. But now, we're looking good. ;)

 Lol remember the days of AJ Green and Jerome Paython and Aaron Bailey? Its good to remember, but thank God they're gone.

[sultan5]

E.G. Greene, i mean.

[Gavin]

It was a simple question about what you think about his abilities. An honest question to someone who has knowledge, from someone who is curious about your opinion.

But never mind.

Your wasting your time with God of The Know It Alls there, But since he wont answer your question I will, Avery runs better routes then I expected, not great but better. He has about as good of hands as I expected, he will frustrate you with a few drops (although 7 is not that many to be honest considering the number of throws that flat out missed him) and of course lets not forget his playing speed. As to what I dont like about him. He will never be considered a red zone threat or target do to his underwhelming size so I never will expect a double digit td season from him BUT that I can live with. I think he is more then capable of a 1000 yard season not that I am expecting it but there is no denying his potential

[tydontlie]

That is a stunning post. The notion that a Colts coach was forced into starting anyone is...well...I don't know what to say to that. We had several other WRs who could've been given the #2. Therefore the coaches OBVIOUSLY liked him at the #2. And considering that Pagano called him personally to stop him from signing with any other team should make that abundantly clear.

If there were several options at number two then tell me who..the reason Pagano called him and told him not to sign with other teams was because he was so cheap and would be a decent addition compared to what we had on the roster..so like I said that doesn't mean they liked him as our #2, there was just no better option. I can almost guarantee you one thing he won't be our #2 this year with the sorry season he had.

[Indyfan4life]

This Avery hate blows my mind. Anyone putting stock into Brazil or Whalen over Avery are crazy.

[ColtStrong]

We only have so many roster spots. And we currently have 5 WRs That is the right number. We have the practice squad (ours and everyone else's) that we can turn to or we can sign another WR in case of injury. The notion of wasting our time adding to an already strong WR corps when we do not have a strong Oline or Dline corps is kind of missing the mark. Wouldn't you agree?

When did I say that I don't want a strong O-line or D-line? "wasting our time adding to an already strong WR"? Wow, what planet are you from? Besides Wayne and Hilton, what makes you think WR is "strong"? I want some of what you're smoking.

[ColtStrong]

This Avery hate blows my mind. Anyone putting stock into Brazil or Whalen over Avery are crazy.

According to some, Brazill is the next Jerry Rice.

[gacker65]

Since no one has answered this question, I'll ask again; Which one of are many Slot Receivers do you want to take Reggie's place if he gets hurt and is IRed.  If you get an answer, then explain what makes you think the Offense will be as good or better than last season's.

 

IMO, the only wild card is Whalen.  He is an unknown at the pro level.  The rest are known and will not be able to step-up and be the #1 receiver.

 

This the best reason for picking up a big receiver and letting Avery walk.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Look, Fellas, to say that Luck will be better next year is the same as saying Avery will, too. Last year was Avery's rookie year all over again. Brand new team, new playbook for everybody including the Quarterback, new team mates, Rookie QB, sharing playing-time with a young phenom like T.Y., a one year contract, and a whole lot to prove all over again. He did great. Imagine what he will be like next year after a year like this one? Now that every one knows each other, and is more in-tune with each other? I hope they re-sign him and i cant wait to see him play next year.

 

Great post.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

If there were several options at number two then tell me who...

 

T.Y. Hilton, Lavon Brazill, Austin Collie, Griff Whalen were all in training camp with Avery.

 

...the reason Pagano called him and told him not to sign with other teams was because he was so cheap and would be a decent addition compared to what we had on the roster...

 

He told you that? ...

 

so like I said that doesn't mean they liked him as our #2, there was just no better option.

 

Aside from the four Colts players that I've already listed as other options, there were MANY free agent options at WR in 2012: Jerheme Urban, Chansi Stuckey, Terrell Owens, Roy Williams, Rashied Davis, Maurice Stovall, Bryant Johnson, Kassim Osgood, Greg Camarillo, Michael Clayton, Adrian Arrington, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Arnaz Battle, Patrick Crayton, Braylon Edwards, Mark Clayton, Jabar Gaffney.

 

I can almost guarantee you one thing he won't be our #2 this year with the sorry season he had.

 

Awesome. ;)

[HarassedOffTheSite]

 Lol remember the days of AJ Green and Jerome Paython and Aaron Bailey? Its good to remember, but thank God they're gone.

 

I do! Now THAT was a time for the ninnies to be out in force. Not now, we are young AND talented at WR. It should probably be our next to last concern.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Which one of are many Slot Receivers do you want to take Reggie's place if he gets hurt and is IRed.

 

This the best reason for picking up a big receiver and letting Avery walk.

 

Forgive me, I do not recall seeing your question. So you want us to pick up two WRs this offseason? One to replace Avery's absence and another to take Reggie's if he goes down?

[HarassedOffTheSite]

When did I say that I don't want a strong O-line or D-line?

 

Well, you never really said ANYTHING that deep. Just some ad hominem nonsense regarding my posting count. I just tried to refocus the discussion on our situation at Wide Receiver.

 

 

"wasting our time adding to an already strong WR"? Wow, what planet are you from?

 

Earth.

 

 

Besides Wayne and Hilton, what makes you think WR is "strong"?

 

I don't think we're strong at WR. We ARE strong at WR. I'm just stating that.

 

 

I want some of what you're smoking.

 

Smoking is such a disgusting codependancy. And it makes your teeth green. Don't do it.

[Larry Horseman]

I think Avery is fine, and with the current FA WR class, I don't see us making a move besides resigning him (if we do that). However, if Allen, Patterson, Hopkins, Hunter, or Rogers fall to the right spot, I think it would  be a sound decision to pull the trigger on one of them in the draft. Getting a larger WR to eventually replace RW and play some snaps this year as #2/#3 is more intriguing to me than Avery. Avery, TY, Brazil, and Palmer are all small speed guys...it would be good to have some variance in our WR corps... 

 

[Dustin]

Everybody seems to forget about Kelley. 

[Larry Horseman]

Everybody seems to forget about Kelley. 

 

Because he is more likely to be cut than make the team.

[LockeDown]

I agree. I have been saying all offseason that we do not need to add another WR. Fix the O-line and the rest of the offense will get in sync. The O-line effects every aspect of how the offense operates and if the O-line is playing well, Luck will have more time to step into his throws, be more accurate, and allow plays to develop downfield. It will also help with play action because teams will have to respect our run game.

 

That's clearly shortsided thinking, imo. I hope Grigson never says never on a position just because we have enough warm bodies.  I want him to ALWAYS keep his eye out for the next great talent.

[LockeDown]

I think Avery is fine, and with the current FA WR class, I don't see us making a move besides resigning him (if we do that). However, if Allen, Patterson, Hopkins, Hunter, or Rogers fall to the right spot, I think it would  be a sound decision to pull the trigger on one of them in the draft. Getting a larger WR to eventually replace RW and play some snaps this year as #2/#3 is more intriguing to me than Avery. Avery, TY, Brazil, and Palmer are all small speed guys...it would be good to have some variance in our WR corps... 

 

That's what I was just saying but you said it better.

[sultan5]

Since no one has answered this question, I'll ask again; Which one of are many Slot Receivers do you want to take Reggie's place if he gets hurt and is IRed.  If you get an answer, then explain what makes you think the Offense will be as good or better than last season's.

 

IMO, the only wild card is Whalen.  He is an unknown at the pro level.  The rest are known and will not be able to step-up and be the #1 receiver.

 

This the best reason for picking up a big receiver and letting Avery walk.

 

 

Ok. lets invite a little common sense here. We have glaring needs on our offensive line, defensive line, linebacking core, and secondary. Now, we have 47 mil in Cap, right? So, seeing how much talent costs in the NFL.....was our WR core so bad last year( 11-5!!!) that we need to spend on an expensive throw-away from another team when we dont REALLY need it, and hope a cheap "need" falls into place where we REALLY need it? i mean, whats the logic in going for someone and paying someone who is no better than the best we have(Wayne), when we already have plenty of talent that we can re-sign and move around. Because im telling you, Avery might have made his 12 drops as a second reciever, but he is DEFINANTLY to good to be someones 3rd reciever, and he wont be 3rd if he goes anywhere else. We went 11-5 last year and Avery was a big part of that. Look at it this way, "if" Wayne goes down, we have T.Y. as our #1 WR. Because whoever we bring in is going to be on his first year in our system, Brazill will probably move to second WR and 3rd?  and lets be fair here, the same way we can afford to keep Avery, is the same way that the Steelers can keep wallace, the same way K.C. kept Bowe, the same way Green Bay couldve kept Jennings..........get what im sayin? We should be smart about it and if we have to, let Avery walk and find out what his top number is from someone else and top it. But if we do that....then we'll probably lose him because we saw a guy drop 12 PASSES OUT OF 70, and everyone else saw a guy who can definantly hold his own and make plays like he did for the Colts last year.

[Dustin]

Because he is more likely to be cut than make the team.

 

Why?

[Balzer40]

That's clearly shortsided thinking, imo. I hope Grigson never says never on a position just because we have enough warm bodies.  I want him to ALWAYS keep his eye out for the next great talent.

 

 

All I said was we didn't NEED to add another WR. If Grigson wants to add one for competition in camp and preseason, I'm all for it. what I'm against is the thought that we absolutely have to bring in another WR, because we are short handed at the position, when we clearly are not.

 

Nothing "shortsided" about it.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Ok. lets invite a little common sense here. We have glaring needs on our offensive line, defensive line, linebacking core, and secondary. Now, we have 47 mil in Cap, right? So, seeing how much talent costs in the NFL.....was our WR core so bad last year( 11-5!!!) that we need to spend on an expensive throw-away from another team when we dont REALLY need it, and hope a cheap "need" falls into place where we REALLY need it? i mean, whats the logic in going for someone and paying someone who is no better than the best we have(Wayne), when we already have plenty of talent that we can re-sign and move around. Because im telling you, Avery might have made his 12 drops as a second reciever, but he is DEFINANTLY to good to be someones 3rd reciever, and he wont be 3rd if he goes anywhere else. We went 11-5 last year and Avery was a big part of that. Look at it this way, "if" Wayne goes down, we have T.Y. as our #1 WR. Because whoever we bring in is going to be on his first year in our system, Brazill will probably move to second WR and 3rd?  and lets be fair here, the same way we can afford to keep Avery, is the same way that the Steelers can keep wallace, the same way K.C. kept Bowe, the same way Green Bay couldve kept Jennings..........get what im sayin? We should be smart about it and if we have to, let Avery walk and find out what his top number is from someone else and top it. But if we do that....then we'll probably lose him because we saw a guy drop 12 PASSES OUT OF 70, and everyone else saw a guy who can definantly hold his own and make plays like he did for the Colts last year.

 

[sultan5]

Since no one has answered this question, I'll ask again; Which one of are many Slot Receivers do you want to take Reggie's place if he gets hurt and is IRed.  If you get an answer, then explain what makes you think the Offense will be as good or better than last season's.

 

IMO, the only wild card is Whalen.  He is an unknown at the pro level.  The rest are known and will not be able to step-up and be the #1 receiver.

 

This the best reason for picking up a big receiver and letting Avery walk.

 

 

T.Y. will take over for Reggie. hes not as fast as Avery and a burner is always needed on the field.  So Avery will stay where he's at and T.Y willtake over for Wayne and Whalen or Palmer willmove into the slot. I would trust Palmer alot more than Whalen though because Palmer is alot bigger, alot more physical, more experience, and definantly faster and quicker. Brazill works with Avery as downfield options.

[Larry Horseman]

Why?

 

He's unproven at this level, is a low-cost/risk signing, will have to beat out multiple players who have played with Luck and proven themselves on special teams, and, probably most importantly, is more like a TE with his size and speed. Tell me, what do you actually think he can bring to the offense that Fleener cannot?

[Dustin]

He's unproven at this level, is a low-cost/risk signing, will have to beat out multiple players who have played with Luck and proven themselves on special teams, and, probably most importantly, is more like a TE with his size and speed. Tell me, what do you actually think he can bring to the offense that Fleener cannot?

 

I didn't say he could bring anything that Fleener couldn't. He has good size, speed, and seems like an all-around great athlete. I think he makes the team. It's not like I said he was going to jump all the other receivers on the depth chart.  I just don't see what guys like Whalen, Brazill, and Palmer brings to the offense that Avery and Hilton don't.

[sultan5]

And keep this in mind too, guys, we have Luck, AND his O.C from stanford, and if i remember right, Stanford kicked butt and took names with one of the WORST recieving cores in College Football. Put it this way, and props to Whalen, Griff Whalen was their top wide reciever...playing injured most of the year. Now, that QB, that WR, that O.C. is on the Colts offense.....AND their top TE!!!! so....how much do you really want to spend on a big name WR in F/A?!!!! Because whatever we spend on that WR, just means less money (or talent) on a glaring need that we REALLY should've focused on.... instead of WR.

[TKnight24]

I'll say it once again..... grab Marquise Goodwin (Texas)

Problem solved

[TKnight24]

And keep this in mind too, guys, we have Luck, AND his O.C from stanford, and if i remember right, Stanford kicked butt and took names with one of the WORST recieving cores in College Football. Put it this way, and props to Whalen, Griff Whalen was their top wide reciever...playing injured most of the year. Now, that QB, that WR, that O.C. is on the Colts offense.....AND their top TE!!!! so....how much do you really want to spend on a big name WR in F/A?!!!! Because whatever we spend on that WR, just means less money (or talent) on a glaring need that we REALLY should've focused on.... instead of WR.

They "kicked butt" cause that offense was TE heavy with an average WR core & a good running game. Now add two monster TE's with Reggie & TY plus Ballard and you got yourself a nice looking offense.

We don't need a big name WR. We did just fine last year with multiple unknown players. But everyone seems to care more about names than talent and what that person can bring to us

[Dustin]

I'll say it once again..... grab Marquise Goodwin (Texas)

Problem solved

 

He's just a faster, weaker version of TY.

[BOTT]

I'll say it once again..... grab Marquise Goodwin (Texas)

Problem solved

You would want Tebow if he was a Longhorn

[HarassedOffTheSite]

And keep this in mind too, guys, we have Luck, AND his O.C from stanford, and if i remember right, Stanford kicked butt and took names with one of the WORST recieving cores in College Football. Put it this way, and props to Whalen, Griff Whalen was their top wide reciever...playing injured most of the year. Now, that QB, that WR, that O.C. is on the Colts offense.....AND their top TE!!!! so....how much do you really want to spend on a big name WR in F/A?!!!! Because whatever we spend on that WR, just means less money (or talent) on a glaring need that we REALLY should've focused on.... instead of WR.

 

You're making way too much sense.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I'll say it once again..... grab Marquise Goodwin (Texas)

Problem solved

 

 

You would want Tebow if he was a Longhorn

 

Hahaha

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Now add two monster TE's with Reggie & TY plus Ballard and you got yourself a nice looking offense.

 

Assuming the Oline upgrade, amen.

[Larry Horseman]

I didn't say he could bring anything that Fleener couldn't. He has good size, speed, and seems like an all-around great athlete. I think he makes the team. It's not like I said he was going to jump all the other receivers on the depth chart.  I just don't see what guys like Whalen, Brazill, and Palmer brings to the offense that Avery and Hilton don't.

 

RE: Fleener, if the staff uses him creatively, he can play the role of a big WR. I agree with what you say about Kelley. He does add diversity to the corps. Until he proves otherwise, however, I consider him nothing but camp fodder. Hope I'm wrong and he ends up being a beast and another Grigson surprise pick-up (like Freeman), I'm just not going to hold my breath or think that he fills a void in the WR corps until that actually happens.

[sultan5]

I didn't say he could bring anything that Fleener couldn't. He has good size, speed, and seems like an all-around great athlete. I think he makes the team. It's not like I said he was going to jump all the other receivers on the depth chart.  I just don't see what guys like Whalen, Brazill, and Palmer brings to the offense that Avery and Hilton don't.

 Man, we have a great WR core! Palmer brings toughness, and with his speed and quickness i would love to see him in the slot. Brazill was the big name on his college team, so he brings alot of mental focus and leadership and he knows what its like to be a teams #1 wideout in desperate situations, he's a bigger asset than he appears. and whalen, was playing injured most of his last year as Lucks #1 reciever. And none of this even mentions what Avery and Hilton bring to the table, let alone, future Hall-of-Famer Reggie Wayne. I mean, Luck couldnt be in a better position to start a brilliant career. Plus our #1 and #2 TE's that we got from last year's draft. It just makes sense that the O-line is by far Grigsons biggest priority. And he's an ex o-linemen himself...i cant wait March 12!! Im not saying Grigson and Irsay is going to spend, spend, spend... im saying it feels wierd to be looking forward to F/A so much because as Colts fans, we're just not used to having Cap moolah. Peyton was REAL expensive, worth every penny, definantly, just as Andrew will be in his next contract, I guess it was a Polian thang not to invest in F/A. that or both, no money.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Luck couldnt be in a better position to start a brilliant career.

 

After this off-season, we'll really have no excuse.

 

On Thursday, September 5th we should be ready to begin our run. And I expect multiple Super Bowls to be the end result.

 

It has been for the last 14 years and will be for the next 14 GREAT to be a Colts fan.

[Balzer40]

And keep this in mind too, guys, we have Luck, AND his O.C from stanford, and if i remember right, Stanford kicked butt and took names with one of the WORST recieving cores in College Football. Put it this way, and props to Whalen, Griff Whalen was their top wide reciever...playing injured most of the year. Now, that QB, that WR, that O.C. is on the Colts offense.....AND their top TE!!!! so....how much do you really want to spend on a big name WR in F/A?!!!! Because whatever we spend on that WR, just means less money (or talent) on a glaring need that we REALLY should've focused on.... instead of WR.

 

 

 

Good post, but you'll find that this argument is like talking to brick walls. You'll get about the same amount of common sense from either. I don't know if it's just Colts fans in general or if other fan bases are obsessed with the WR position as well, but no matter what kind of common sense argument you throw out, they will always come back with " but but we gotta have as many weapons as possible" and "well, yeah, but what if so and so gets injured".

 

Eventually every team needs to trust their scouting dept. and take a chance on their young guy's, otherwise they never get a chance to prove theirselves and stars are never born. We don't know if Brazill, Palmer, Whalen, Sambrano, or Kelly will develop into number 1 or 2 potential, but unless we take that chance we'll never know.