Watched Super Bowl 39 (Pats/Eagles) for the first time

[buffalo34]

Remember, this SB was before I had any interest in football, so this was my first chance of watching it.

 

Wow. Were the Pats really that good? Or did McNabb just play that horrible? Looked scared and skittish out there, horrible clock management skills at the end, and squandered away more chances to score at the beginning of the game than I can count.

 

Bonus: And wow that did that FOX scoring bug that game bring back great memories of the 2004 Red Sox...

[chad72]

Say what you want, it was like clockwork watching that Belichick D make timely stops or turnovers when they needed it. It was almost too predictable in a good way from that D.

[southwest1]

I just remember that WR Terrell had a monster night playing for the Philadelphia Eagles in that SB. 

[RGIII]

The Patriots defense was scary good when they were winning Super Bowls and the team hasn't really been the same since that unit declined.  Safe to say that McNabb also sucked when it counted as well.

[southwest1]

I just remember that WR Terrell had a monster night playing for the Philadelphia Eagles in that SB. 

Oops! I meant to write WR Terrell Owens...Proof read, proof read, proof read SW1...Sometimes, my brains & fingers fail to comply with 1 another. My bad. 

[southwest1]

It is kind of ironic how quickly Mr. Owens went from a respected athlete in Philadelphia coming back from injury in record breaking time to almost a villain in the "City of Brotherly Love." But then again, Mr. "I love me some me" has a very short shelf life too I suppose right?  

[amfootball]

That was a great SB for drama. McNabb was puking at the end. For all the talk about the Pats D, they had a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go and almost squandered it just like they did in '01 with a 14 pt lead against the Rams and an 11 pt lead against the Panthers in '03. Brady is the only QB to have won all of his SBs with a fourth quarter comeback - either tied or losing in the 4th. It is amazing to watch. That is why he is the greatest ever. Those 3 bowls.

[LockeDown]

If I had to chose any Super Bowl team to play against, it would be that Eagles team.  Like a gimme in golf.

[amfootball]

If I had to chose any Super Bowl team to play against, it would be that Eagles team.  Like a gimme in golf.

 

If I had to chose any Super Bowl team to play against, it would be that Eagles team.  Like a gimme in golf.

I would  choose the Bears in 2006. Grossman is the worst QB to have ever made the SB.

[21isSuperman]

Wasn't McNabb puking that game?  Or was that another game?  I know Owens played on a broken leg and still had a monster game

[chad72]

Wasn't McNabb puking that game?  Or was that another game?  I know Owens played on a broken leg and still had a monster game

 

Yep, that was the one.

[Fx Stryker]

Wasn't this the Janet Jackson SB?

 

EDIT: Nope. That was the Panthers SB.

 

OT: McNabb was very off that game.

[The Old Crow]

That was a great SB for drama. McNabb was puking at the end. For all the talk about the Pats D, they had a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go and almost squandered it just like they did in '01 with a 14 pt lead against the Rams and an 11 pt lead against the Panthers in '03. Brady is the only QB to have won all of his SBs with a fourth quarter comeback - either tied or losing in the 4th. It is amazing to watch. That is why he is the greatest ever. Those 3 bowls.

 

 

Unfortunately, these Patriot Super Bowl wins are viewed through the prism of time as tainted, much like baseball's steroid era.

[amfootball]

Unfortunately, these Patriot Super Bowl wins are viewed through the prism of time as tainted, much like baseball's steroid era.

um ok. In your view not in everyone else's but whatever makes you sleep well at night. I bet you think the Saints SB is tainted too?

[shakedownstreet]

mcnabb forgot if they didn't have the lead at the end of regulation, they'd lose the game

[The Old Crow]

um ok. In your view not in everyone else's but whatever makes you sleep well at night. I bet you think the Saints SB is tainted too?

 

I'm not crazy about bounties either, but lets review the facts:

 

1.  Godell told Senator Arlen Spector that Bellichick was engaged in videotaping signals since 2000.

2. For some reasons , the NFL destroyed the materials sent to it on the case.

3. The Boston Heral reported that had also videotaped a practice walk through of the St. Louis Rams prior to Super Bowl XXXVI.

 

Did he learn his lesson. Fast forward to January 11th 2012. The Broncos had just upset the Steelers at Mile High, and here was Bellicheck hiring ex- Denver coach Josh McDaniels, at the end of the season before the playoff game against Denver.

 

Fast Forward to this year: Bellicheck storms off the field after the loss to the Ravens, and refuses to grant Shannon Sharpe and CBS and interview. I could go on and on, including the ludicrous Tuck rule call, and the illegal snow plow field goal against Oakland. No, I don't have a good view of New orleans either, to be honest with you.

[amfootball]

I'm not crazy about bounties either, but lets review the facts:

 

1.  Godell told Senator Arlen Spector that Bellichick was engaged in videotaping signals since 2000.

2. For some reasons , the NFL destroyed the materials sent to it on the case.

3. The Boston Heral reported that had also videotaped a practice walk through of the St. Louis Rams prior to Super Bowl XXXVI.

 

Did he learn his lesson. Fast forward to January 11th 2012. The Broncos had just upset the Steelers at Mile High, and here was Bellicheck hiring ex- Denver coach Josh McDaniels, at the end of the season before the playoff game against Denver.

 

Fast Forward to this year: Bellicheck storms off the field after the loss to the Ravens, and refuses to grant Shannon Sharpe and CBS and interview. I could go on and on, including the ludicrous Tuck rule call, and the illegal snow plow field goal against Oakland. No, I don't have a good view of New orleans either, to be honest with you.

ok, I think you need some persepective on this.

1. A memo in 2006 about location of video equipment on the sideline was sent to all 32 teams not just the Pats because the league believe it was a league-wide problem.

2. The Pats were caught with their equipment on the sideline in week 1 vs. Jets and penalized. They accepted the penalty, apologized, and then hired a team of football experts to study the NFL rulebook to ensure something like that never happens again.

3. The Boston Herald accused the Pats of taping a walk through of the Rams prior to SB 36 and then printed an apology when the tapes came out as Thomas (the reporter) admitted he had no evidence of a taped walk through and that it was based on heresay from a third hand source.

4. Jimmie Johnson said he videotaped signals when he was with the cowboys and that it was a common practice in the NFL.

5. If you believe that Belichick didn't learn the videopractice from Bill Parcells, you are kidding yourself. While I believe Belichick to be a genius, I do not give him credit as the originator of taping signals.

6. My final point and perhaps the most damaging to your whole premise is the Pats record since spygate - they have won more games and scored more points since spygate. Also, the taping of the defensive signals was supposed to help Brady the most and since spygate he was won leage MVP twice - throwing for a record 50 TDs in 2007 and 355 passes without a pick in 2010 becoming the only unanimous league MVP in the history of football. In addition, Bill Belichick won coach of the year those years too, all post spyagte. And right after the Pats got caught, when the everyone was watching them including God himself they went 18-0 and were one flukiest catch in SB history from a perfect season.

7. You can view them as tainted all you want probably because you have a bias and hate the Pats anyways but rest assured your belief is contrary to the wealth of evidence to the contrary.

 

Separately, there was no snow plow for the Oakland game. I don't know what you are talking about. The Tuck Rule is, well, a rule and has been called the exact same way before and after the Oakland game. I could care less if Belichick ever does a post-game interview. He talked to CBS before the game, at halftime and then gave a 20 minute press conference after the game. The post-game interview on the field of the loser has to be the stupidest idea in all of sports. I mean what is he supposed to say, "yeah, we lost, it sucks." Shannon Sharpe is a baby.

[The Old Crow]

1. The Patriots have not won a Super Bowl since Spygate:  Fact

2. Victim of Circumstances Bellichick was fined $500,000 by the NFL, the largest fine ever imposed in 87 years of NFL history : Fact

3. The Patriots were docked $250,000 and a first round selection for the vidotaping: Fact

4. Bellichick never won anything with the Browns, and suddenly started winning with the Patriots: Fact

5. That fact that Parcells , the Saint with bounties , or Denver violating the salary cap in 97 and 98 is still cheating: Opinion

6. Unlike Jimmy Johnson, Bellichick was wrong because he continued to tape signals after the NFL had issued memos to all NFL teams not to do so.

[amfootball]

1. The Patriots have not won a Super Bowl since Spygate:  Fact

2. Victim of Circumstances Bellichick was fined $500,000 by the NFL, the largest fine ever imposed in 87 years of NFL history : Fact

3. The Patriots were docked $250,000 and a first round selection for the vidotaping: Fact

4. Bellichick never won anything with the Browns, and suddenly started winning with the Patriots: Fact

5. That fact that Parcells , the Saint with bounties , or Denver violating the salary cap in 97 and 98 is still cheating: Opinion

6. Unlike Jimmy Johnson, Bellichick was wrong because he continued to tape signals after the NFL had issued memos to all NFL teams not to do so.

1) winning the SB is hard you know, like I said they came within the flukiest catch of SB history of going perfect and were a Wes Welker drop from winning last year.

2) Belichick was not a victim of circumstances. He violated a league rule, accept the blame, apologized and accepted the penalty and has won the most games in the NFL since 2006 and been coach of the year TWICE - fact

3) He didn't win anything with the Browns because he had Vinnie Testaverde not Tom Brady. Incidentally, I don't believe Belichick is anymore than just a very good coach. Brady makes him look great. He is a below average GM.

4) I agree with points 5 and 6 but you must also acknowledge that pretty much every team pushes the rules and will cheat if they can get away it. Also remember that the signals the Pats taped are in full view of everyone so it is not the same thing as bounty gate or salary cap evasion. Still cheating though.

[shecolt]

1) winning the SB is hard you know, like I said they came within the flukiest catch of SB history of going perfect and were a Wes Welker drop from winning last year.

2) Belichick was not a victim of circumstances. He violated a league rule, accept the blame, apologized and accepted the penalty and has won the most games in the NFL since 2006 and been coach of the year TWICE - fact

3) He didn't win anything with the Browns because he had Vinnie Testaverde not Tom Brady. Incidentally, I don't believe Belichick is anymore than just a very good coach. Brady makes him look great. He is a below average GM.

4) I agree with points 5 and 6 but you must also acknowledge that pretty much every team pushes the rules and will cheat if they can get away it. Also remember that the signals the Pats taped are in full view of everyone so it is not the same thing as bounty gate or salary cap evasion. Still cheating though.

 

I'm confused which isn't anything new for me.  In post #17 you said:

 

5. If you believe that Belichick didn't learn the videopractice from Bill Parcells, you are kidding yourself. While I believe Belichick to be a genius, I do not give him credit as the originator of taping signals.

 

But, in the portion of your above post that I bolded, you say that you don't believe Belichick is anymore than a good coach who was made to look good by Brady and that he is a below average GM.

 

The two posts don't seem to correlate for me.  Can you explain why you think Belichick is a genius, but just a good coach who was made to look better by Brady and is a below average GM?

[Jules]

1) winning the SB is hard you know, like I said they came within the flukiest catch of SB history of going perfect and were a Wes Welker drop from winning last year.

.

 

Especially for an intangible/leadership free one hit wonder like Aaron Rodgers.

[Flying Elvis]

That was a great SB for drama. McNabb was puking at the end. For all the talk about the Pats D, they had a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go and almost squandered it just like they did in '01 with a 14 pt lead against the Rams and an 11 pt lead against the Panthers in '03. Brady is the only QB to have won all of his SBs with a fourth quarter comeback - either tied or losing in the 4th. It is amazing to watch. That is why he is the greatest ever. Those 3 bowls.

Brady is pretty good.

 

2001, Patriots led 17-3 4th quarter. Rams tie it up 17-17 with 1:30 remaining.

2003, Patriots led 21-10 4th quarter. Panthers tie it up 29-29 with 1:08 remaining.

2007, Patriots led 14-10 4th quarter. Giants go up 17-14 with :35 remaining.

2010, Patriots led 17-15 4th quarter. Giants go up 21-17 with :57 remaining.

Brady just ran out of time the last two tries.

[The Old Crow]

1) winning the SB is hard you know, like I said they came within the flukiest catch of SB history of going perfect and were a Wes Welker drop from winning last year.

2) Belichick was not a victim of circumstances. He violated a league rule, accept the blame, apologized and accepted the penalty and has won the most games in the NFL since 2006 and been coach of the year TWICE - fact

3) He didn't win anything with the Browns because he had Vinnie Testaverde not Tom Brady. Incidentally, I don't believe Belichick is anymore than just a very good coach. Brady makes him look great. He is a below average GM.

4) I agree with points 5 and 6 but you must also acknowledge that pretty much every team pushes the rules and will cheat if they can get away it. Also remember that the signals the Pats taped are in full view of everyone so it is not the same thing as bounty gate or salary cap evasion. Still cheating though.

 

 

I was also disappointed with Bellichick hiring ex- Denver coach Josh McDaniels before they played the Broncos in that playoff game at the end of the season. I know he was with St. Louis, and previously has been a Patriots coach, but he was only one year removed from being a Denver coach, and was hired suspiciously right before the AFC playoff game against Denver. This kind of deal, could cause head coaches to hire assistant coaches of opponents at the end of the year, who recently coached at the team they were playing, to get an advantage , or make the team change all their schemes. I'm sure Bellichick learned at the feet of Parcells, but it seems like he is always on , or off, the edge of league rules.

[House]

Brady is pretty good.

2001, Patriots led 17-3 4th quarter. Rams tie it up 17-17 with 1:30 remaining.

2003, Patriots led 21-10 4th quarter. Panthers tie it up 29-29 with 1:08 remaining.

2007, Patriots led 14-10 4th quarter. Giants go up 17-14 with :35 remaining.

2010, Patriots led 17-15 4th quarter. Giants go up 21-17 with :57 remaining.

Brady just ran out of time the last two tries.

it's nothing against you, but I hate that expression "ran out of time."

It's essentially saying "I'm so good/was doing so good at the end that, if hypothetically allowed to continue past prearranged game perimeters, I totally would have won."

[amfootball]

I'm confused which isn't anything new for me.  In post #17 you said:

 

5. If you believe that Belichick didn't learn the videopractice from Bill Parcells, you are kidding yourself. While I believe Belichick to be a genius, I do not give him credit as the originator of taping signals.

 

But, in the portion of your above post that I bolded, you say that you don't believe Belichick is anymore than a good coach who was made to look good by Brady and that he is a below average GM.

 

The two posts don't seem to correlate for me.  Can you explain why you think Belichick is a genius, but just a good coach who was made to look better by Brady and is a below average GM?

I meant to say I believe he is NOT a genius but forgot the word "not". Sorry for the confusion.

[amfootball]

I was also disappointed with Bellichick hiring ex- Denver coach Josh McDaniels before they played the Broncos in that playoff game at the end of the season. I know he was with St. Louis, and previously has been a Patriots coach, but he was only one year removed from being a Denver coach, and was hired suspiciously right before the AFC playoff game against Denver. This kind of deal, could cause head coaches to hire assistant coaches of opponents at the end of the year, who recently coached at the team they were playing, to get an advantage , or make the team change all their schemes. I'm sure Bellichick learned at the feet of Parcells, but it seems like he is always on , or off, the edge of league rules.

There is nothing in the rules against this. I believe the same thing happened with Mike Shanahan back in 1989 when he was fired as HC of the raiders and then hired by the Broncos. There is nothing in the rules about this so it is not on the edge of anything and more common than you think. In fact the Pats picked up another OC from Kansas City this past post-season when he was fired.

[shecolt]

I meant to say I believe he is NOT a genius but forgot the word "not". Sorry for the confusion.

 

Thank you for your response, but I'm still confused and apologize for being so dense.

 

In this thread you said:

 

I will be honest with you, that Pats team in 2001 was horrible. By far the worst team to ever win a SB. And remember that Bill was not the genius then. He had not proven a thing. When Brady came on board he ignited and unified a team that had virtually no talent other than Ty Law and Milloy. That is the truth and why I believe that SB was Brady's biggest accomplishment even though not his best statistical SB or season.

 

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/15610-aaron-rodgers-a-one-hit-wonder/

 

 

The bolded words imply that you consider Belichick a genius now, but you say you do not . . . that he is a below average GM and a good coach who was made to look better by Brady. 

 

Personally, I think that you are doing Belichick a disservice which is not meant as a knock on Tom Brady as I think they are both very good at their jobs. 

[The Old Crow]

There is nothing in the rules against this. I believe the same thing happened with Mike Shanahan back in 1989 when he was fired as HC of the raiders and then hired by the Broncos. There is nothing in the rules about this so it is not on the edge of anything and more common than you think. In fact the Pats picked up another OC from Kansas City this past post-season when he was fired.

 

 

The Broncos also broke salary cap rules during their Super Bowl winning years. This is another organization that skirts the intent of the rules.

[amfootball]

Thank you for your response, but I'm still confused and apologize for being so dense.

 

In this thread you said:

 

I will be honest with you, that Pats team in 2001 was horrible. By far the worst team to ever win a SB. And remember that Bill was not the genius then. He had not proven a thing. When Brady came on board he ignited and unified a team that had virtually no talent other than Ty Law and Milloy. That is the truth and why I believe that SB was Brady's biggest accomplishment even though not his best statistical SB or season.

 

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?/topic/15610-aaron-rodgers-a-one-hit-wonder/

 

 

The bolded words imply that you consider Belichick a genius now, but you say you do not . . . that he is a below average GM and a good coach who was made to look better by Brady. 

 

Personally, I think that you are doing Belichick a disservice which is not meant as a knock on Tom Brady as I think they are both very good at their jobs. 

I should have put the word "genius" in quotes. I was calling him that because that is what he has become know as in the football world. I think Belichick is one of the best "in game" coaches in the league but not a genius. Belichick the GM has probably hurt Belichick the coach over the past few seasons to be honest. He just can't seem to get the defense right or even competitive against the pass and for whatever reason he has refused to get Brady a top notch WR on the outside ala Moss and instead believes TEs are the answer. It is baffling.

 

One other thing to consider. Brady is the only QB in the history of football to win multiple SBs without ONE HoF at the offensive skill position. Not one. If you look at Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman, they all had multiple HoF either to throw to or run the ball. Brady has had 6 and 7 round picks, cast-offs, street walk-ons. It is amazing to me. He continues to throw to smurfs and had the #1 ranked O this year despite his two supposedly great TEs never playing together save for two games all year. The one year he had Moss in his prime he lit the record books on fire and was one flukiest catch in SB history from a perfect season. But perhaps the most telling evidence is Bill's HC record before Brady. If you take his Cleveland time and combine it with the Pats before Brady you get 41-57, one trip to the post-season with a 1-1 record. With Brady you get 136-39 and 10 trips to the post season with a record of 17-7, 3 rings, 5 SB appearances and 7 AFC champ games. There is a reason why Belichick says, "There is no other QB I would rather have than Tom Brady" when he is asked about Brady and his value to the Pats.

Edited February 18, 2013 by amfootball

[CantBeStopped]

Tom brady is average in any other system. New england is a system qbs dream job. Just ask that matt cassell guy

[amfootball]

Tom brady is average in any other system. New england is a system qbs dream job. Just ask that matt cassell guy

LOL! Yep that is why it worked so well for Bill in Cleveland and when he had Bledsoe and so well for Cassell in Kansas City. Brady IS the system. By the way, I will agree with you if you tell me what the Pats systems is. Is it the one from '01-'03 where it was a dink and dunk offense that took what the defense gave it? Or is it the one in '04-'05 that morphed into a power running attack behind Corey Dillion? Or was it the fun and gun offense with Moss and Welker where Brady threw for a record 50 TDs? Or perhaps the one from the past two years where the offense has been predicated on two rookie stud TEs?

 

If anyone runs a "system offense" it is Peyton Manning that was developed by Tom Moore. 

 

 

[CantBeStopped]

It took brady 62 more completions, not passes, completions to break peytons record by 1. At mannings rate had he thrown 62 more passes like brady he would have thrown 57.97 tds. Peyton also had a qb rating 4 points higher than brady. And like i said its the system. Brady goes down cassell leads that team to 11-5. Manning goes down and we go 2-14. Numbers dont lie

[-JJ-]

Wasn't McNabb puking that game?  Or was that another game?  I know Owens played on a broken leg and still had a monster game

To answer SW and you on Owens. It looked like he had a great game because he played with a bad leg and made some catches.

However stategically he was shut down and as I remember his plays didn't impact.

 

What sealed the game was the old keep the WR standing after the catch and strip it..which is what Rodney Harrison did.

 

The Eagles were good that season and to say otherwise would be false. But NE with their running game with Corey Dillion was pretty much a done deal to win the SB that year. 

 

I never know who is going to win the SB but that year as a fan you couldn't be any more confident.

[-JJ-]

Regarding Belichick coach/GM and Brady Amfootball and shecolt were discussing..

Belichick is a great coach. I can see a debate over GM. However his philosophy of building/using an entire roster "plug and play" with "good smart" football players has kept the team in contention since he's been coach and has made the playoffs including getting to the SB twice and winning 3.

 

That's a strong argument for a good GM realizing you're not winning the SB every year no matter who you are.

 

Any good coach will still need a good QB. What Brady did for BB was play his style of football.NE had no running game and BB wanted to use short passing to make up for it. Drew Bledsoe couldn't do it because he threw them so hard they bounced off the WRs. And when he tried to go long and couldn't find anyone open..sack.

 

Enter Brady. Could throw short and manage the game. Exactly what BB wanted. Of course Brady blossomed into more than that.

 

The 2001 SB BB went to his friend/advisor Ernie Adams and said I am out matched at every postiton against the Rams. You think of something and I will and we'll compare in a few days. They both came up with as Marshall faulk goes so do the Rams. The plan was to know where Faulk was at all times and hit him on every play whether he had the ball or not.

 

That may be one of the only games where coaching was the main reason the team won.

[amfootball]

It took brady 62 more completions, not passes, completions to break peytons record by 1. At mannings rate had he thrown 62 more passes like brady he would have thrown 57.97 tds. Peyton also had a qb rating 4 points higher than brady. And like i said its the system. Brady goes down cassell leads that team to 11-5. Manning goes down and we go 2-14. Numbers dont lie

How many picks did Manning throw his first season? Brady had zero in his first 167 attempts - an NFL record that still stands.

 

In terms of the Cassell argument. The Pats went 16-0 the year before Brady went down. The Colts were 10-6 the year before Manning went down. So the Pats were 5 games worse with Cassell and the Colts were 8 games worse with their trio of back-ups. Both missed the playoffs. And if you take this past year, Andrew Luck took that two win team and won more games than Manning did in his last season with a much worse team AND made the playoffs. 

[RGIII]

Brady is pretty good.

 

2001, Patriots led 17-3 4th quarter. Rams tie it up 17-17 with 1:30 remaining.

2003, Patriots led 21-10 4th quarter. Panthers tie it up 29-29 with 1:08 remaining.

2007, Patriots led 14-10 4th quarter. Giants go up 17-14 with :35 remaining.

2010, Patriots led 17-15 4th quarter. Giants go up 21-17 with :57 remaining.

Brady just ran out of time the last two tries.

 

So you're saying that Brady was unable to put up enough points at the end of games to outright put the other team away without the help of Adam V in every single Super Bowl he played in?

[amfootball]

So you're saying that Brady was unable to put up enough points at the end of games to outright put the other team away without the help of Adam V in every single Super Bowl he played in?

No, in the ones he lost his D wilted at the end.

 

And I believe Adam's right foot delivered Manning his only SB win to the tune of FIVE field goals against the Ravens in the divisional round of the playoffs - the only points the Colts offense scored.

[Kenny]

We need to start banning these guys that have nothing better to post than Brady blah manning blah crap. It's getting very old and really all it is is troll food and a disrespect to our decent, logical pats fan posters. You're no better than the Colts fans who say Brady sucks blah blah blah.

[The Old Crow]

I would comapre Peyton Manning to Johnny Unitas and Tom Brady to Bart Starr. Although Unitas had three NFL Championship wins , and a Super Bowl, Starr ended up with more overall Championships. Most observers know that Unitas was the better quarterback, but the Packers had slightly better teams and coaching. The same could be said for Manning and Brady. Brady leads Manning 3-1 in Super Bowls, but Brady had the more balanced teams around him. I think most fair observers would say Manning is the better overall quarterback.  

 

As far as that 15-6 game in Baltimore that the Colts won, they played a dang good 13-3 Raven's team in 2006, that had a great defense. The Raven's lost the game because of a bad offensive game plan from Billick, and horrible offensive co-ordinator Matt Cavanaugh. Sound familar with the Ravens with Cam Cameron ? Too bad Jim Caldwell wasn't available in 2006 for the Ravens. Steve McNair also choked horribly that day. That 2006 Ravens team, as well as the 2011 Ravens team  that loss to the Patriots because of bumbling Lee Evans, and shanker Billy Cundiff, were probably better overall teams that the 2012 Super Bowl Ravens. So I would rate that 15-6 win in 2006, as a very good win.

 

As far as the 18-1 season, the Patriots should have been 15-1 in the regular season, but got their usual ridiculous pass intereference call on the Ravens in that Monday night game to win. Go back and look at it. It is the kind of call Brady and Bellichick get more than most, and can only be compared to the calls Coach Kry-Baby gets on a regular basis for Duke Basketball.

[amfootball]

I would comapre Peyton Manning to Johnny Unitas and Tom Brady to Bart Starr. Although Unitas had three NFL Championship wins , and a Super Bowl, Starr ended up with more overall Championships. Most observers know that Unitas was the better quarterback, but the Packers had slightly better teams and coaching. The same could be said for Manning and Brady. Brady leads Manning 3-1 in Super Bowls, but Brady had the more balanced teams around him. I think most fair observers would say Manning is the better overall quarterback.  

 

As far as that 15-6 game in Baltimore that the Colts won, they played a dang good 13-3 Raven's team in 2006, that had a great defense. The Raven's lost the game because of a bad offensive game plan from Billick, and horrible offensive co-ordinator Matt Cavanaugh. Sound familar with the Ravens with Cam Cameron ? Too bad Jim Caldwell wasn't available in 2006 for the Ravens. Steve McNair also choked horribly that day. That 2006 Ravens team, as well as the 2011 Ravens team  that loss to the Patriots because of bumbling Lee Evans, and shanker Billy Cundiff, were probably better overall teams that the 2012 Super Bowl Ravens. So I would rate that 15-6 win in 2006, as a very good win.

 

As far as the 18-1 season, the Patriots should have been 15-1 in the regular season, but got their usual ridiculous pass intereference call on the Ravens in that Monday night game to win. Go back and look at it. It is the kind of call Brady and Bellichick get more than most, and can only be compared to the calls Coach Kry-Baby gets on a regular basis for Duke Basketball.

Wow. I mean wow. You are comparing Manning and his EIGHT one and done's and league leading 11 playoff losses with Unitas and his 4 rings? Really? My gosh. May be the most absurd comparison I have ever seen up here.

 

I actually don't think there is a ton of difference between Brady and Manning in terms of skill. Both are cerebral guys that beat you at the line of scrimmage, neither are a threat with their legs. Brady has the stronger arm. That is about it. But what separates them truly is their ability to perform on the big stage. Brady has the most post-season wins ever to go along with his 3 rings and 5 SB appearances while Manning is tied for the most playoff losses and has the most one and done's and one ring, and two SB appearances. I think when everything is said and done, Manning will be most compared to Brett Favre. Both have a ton of passing yards, TDs and also the heart breaking pics. He may aso get compared to Marino as well who was a great regular season performer but failed in the post-season as well. I really believe Brady will stand alone. There really is not a QB you can compare him too because no QB has had his level of success in the Cap/FA era. Even Montana acknowledged this at last year's SB saying that Brady has taking different teams to the SB which is a remarkable accomplishment. Brady forever will be the QB that everyone going forward is compared to unless football goes back to no cap/FA which is a remote possibility.