So We're Now Switching To A Power Running West Coast Offense

[John Waylon]

I think we're putting the cart before the horse here. Assume all you will, but there's every chance his offense will differ from what it was in college. We'll just have to wait till we see it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I agree. We need to go fast and hard after the best O-line talent on the market. We probably won't get everybody we target but to get at the very least 2 of them is paramount IMO.

 

I'm in agreement, even as much as other picks (like a CB or S) sound so much more inviting.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3116870/West-Coast-Offensive-Play-Book#playbook

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/terminology.htm

 

 

 

The above link is just a sample of what ideas could be in store in our new Offensive scheme

 

Thanks! I've been reading these-

 

http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/chris/westcoast/wco.pdf

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/

 

 

just playin around but could you two have given me lamer links to follow?

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I think we're putting the cart before the horse here. Assume all you will, but there's every chance his offense will differ from what it was in college. We'll just have to wait till we see it.

 

Some of the play calling will differ because of our personnel but overall It won't differ that much. 1st and 10, short yardage and goal line offense should improve. Given our WR & TE corps, could we see some 5 wide, 3 step drop West Coast offense? I dunno. But it should be fun given our personnel. But a lot is going to change for the offense. The West Coast isn't just how the Xs & Os go together and "do we have the personnel for this or that". Those things matter. But the West Coast is a lifestyle, culture...a philosophy. How we run our training camp will change. How we practice will change. Our walk-throughs. How our meetings are handled, how we travel, etc, etc. A true West Coast guy will change the ENTIRE approach to how we operate.

[ColtsBlueFL]

just playin around but could you two have given me lamer links to follow?

 

Just for you!

 

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/pass-offenses-in-football.html

 

;)

[wig]

This is good to hear. I think a more cerebral approach to offense is needed. Airing it out deep all game is fun to watch, but not very smart football. Sounds like Hamilton is more sensible in what he'll be asking his players to do next year. As long as he builds the offense around the talent on the roster, we should be fine.

Sidenote: What do you guys think our chances of going after Ertz in this draft are? I don't even know where he's projected to be picked. Just curious

Considering we used a second and a third on TEs last that and would need to use or first this year... ZERO!

[NewColtsFan]

I think Wig's comment is correct.   Zero.

 

In essence, the style of play for Ertz is probably closer to Fleener.   Much better receiver than blocker.   Ertz is projected to go at the bottom of the first to the 2nd of the 2nd round.   Much too important a pick for the Colts to use on another tight end.

 

And i say that while adding that I love Ertz.   Heckuva good player and kid...

[Superman]

Well said.

 

Hamilton himself said he cost Luck  the Heisman. I hope he learned from that experience. Don't waste his talent. This team should be QB driven, if it's not your leaving money on the table.

 

Who cares about the Heisman? They went 11-2 that year, and went to a BCS bowl game. Their offensive strategy was a winning won. That's much more important than Luck winning the Heisman.

[SilentHill]

Who cares about the Heisman? They went 11-2 that year, and went to a BCS bowl game. Their offensive strategy was a winning won. That's much more important than Luck winning the Heisman.

 

Eh, It's college, IMHO your not really winning unless your pretty much undefeated.

[Gavin]

Thanks! I've been reading these-

 

http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/chris/westcoast/wco.pdf

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/

I have them both as well bookmarked

[UKColt13]

i'm personally in love with the TE position and possibly a Jermichael Finley could be an option this offseason barring a tough packers decision 

I've never been a Finley fan. And GreenBay want rid of him rather than pay his money.

Pass.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

@gmbremer

Pep Hamilton said he'll run a "variation" of the West Coast offense with the #Colts. Short, efficient passes, high completion percentage.

[jvan1973]

@gmbremer

Pep Hamilton said he'll run a "variation" of the West Coast offense with the #Colts. Short, efficient passes, high completion percentage.

I like the sound of that.. Get first downs and take a shot once in awhile

[Gavin]

I wonder when he will be announced officially as our new O Coordinator and have his first presser

[GoodLuck]

If he called plays at the end of the fiesta bowl, he cost Luck a win to end his career at Stanford. The conservative playcalling to play for a fg cost them a w vs OK St.

[ColtsBlueFL]

If he called plays at the end of the fiesta bowl, he cost Luck a win to end his career at Stanford. The conservative playcalling to play for a fg cost them a w vs OK St.

 

I'm very much hoping not or at least not often, but I am bracing for just such to occur here too.  

 

From either side of the ball, I really don't care 'playing to not lose'.

[HtownColt]

“But I enjoy watching our guys just come off the ball, the guys up front, and trying to knock the opponent back. I’m a big believer of the power-running game and . . . I think that ultimately opens up your passing game, the play-action passes.’’

This is what Pep told the IndyStar so I will go out on a limb and say we are keeping the power run game. Now it's time to upgrade this Offensive line

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I think that some Colts fans are (shamefully...because we should know better) walking right by the reality that at some point, Luck is going to call his own plays. So that doesn't matter.

 

The biggest impact this guy will bring is the west coast culture and way of doing things. Hopefully he will get those things established before he is out the door and we bring in another west coast guy to manage what should be at that point a turn-key operation.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

“But I enjoy watching our guys just come off the ball, the guys up front, and trying to knock the opponent back. I’m a big believer of the power-running game and . . . I think that ultimately opens up your passing game, the play-action passes.’’

This is what Pep told the IndyStar so I will go out on a limb and say we are keeping the power run game. Now it's time to upgrade this Offensive line

 

So basically he is a disciple of Harbaugh and Roman.

 

Imagine the 49ers offense with Andrew Luck behind center and Reggie Wayne at wideout.

[YOUR GM]

It would've been interesting to see how things would've shook down if Arians had stayed. I think it's pretty telling that Pagano and Grigson decided to go after a coach with a completely different philosophy than Arians. I'm sure Grigs and Pagano saw all the hits Luck was taking, and how long he was holding the ball, and didn't like it. I really think Arians leaving was best for all parties. Don't think they would've put up with his scheme or it's lackluster results for near as long as the Steelers did    

[HarassedOffTheSite]

It would've been interesting to see how things would've shook down if Arians had stayed. I think it's pretty telling that Pagano and Grigson decided to go after a coach with a completely different philosophy than Arians. I'm sure Grigs and Pagano saw all the hits Luck was taking, and how long he was holding the ball, and didn't like it. I really think Arians leaving was best for all parties. Don't think they would've put up with his scheme or it's lackluster results for near as long as the Steelers did    

 

You may be right. At the beginning of the year I was unimpressed with the Arians hire. But his leadership and demeanor during this past season warmed me to him. Luck would've taken hits in the west coast system as well because (our offensive line sucked) the checkdowns are the same...deepest WR route to shortest...so I'm not sure that factored in. It may just be that Hamilton was indeed the best guy out there AND the fact that he was with Luck at Stanford may have pushed it into no brainer territory.

 

Eitherway, we're here now. Arians is gone and I'm flushing the whole thing.

 

The Indianapolis Colts are now running the West Coast Offense.

[Crunked]

I am not necessarily a big fan of the west coast dink and dunk system. However it is important to keep in perspective that what Arians did this year was beneficial to consistent movement down the field and scoring due to personel shortcomings. With better talent, we can execute a more conservative offense and be just as much of an offensive threat as before.

 

With poor O-line this year if we would have ran the west coast every defense would have bunched in close to the line and we would have all received our 3 and out obligatory tattoo's as Colt fans.......Pep is a smart man, and I hope he realizes as we fill holes this year, that we may not go from zero to hero, and adjusts his play calling accordingly. The less overall talent we have the more risk taking we need to be to be successful.....Power running/West coast style can work if you have a good line and good talent, but if we improve to average line.....we may struggle if Pep doesn't adjust to be a bit more field stretching......

[YOUR GM]

You may be right. At the beginning of the year I was unimpressed with the Arians hire. But his leadership and demeanor during this past season warmed me to him. Luck would've taken hits in the west coast system as well because (our offensive line sucked) the checkdowns are the same...deepest WR route to shortest...so I'm not sure that factored in. It may just be that Hamilton was indeed the best guy out there AND the fact that he was with Luck at Stanford may have pushed it into no brainer territory.

 

Eitherway, we're here now. Arians is gone and I'm flushing the whole thing.

 

The Indianapolis Colts are now running the West Coast Offense.

 

Another poster said it best in a different thread (can't remember who it was), that it wasn't the fact that short routes weren't being ran in Arians system... It was the fact that even the short routes took too much time to develop. Most of Arians routes between 5-10 yards were drags, and the last read in Luck's progression. While drags aren't 20 yards down the field, they still take just as much time to develop as posts and go's because they're depending on the deeper routes to clear space underneath. Very few designed quick-hitters were called under Arians watch.To his credit though, from week 16 on, we started to get the backs and TE's more involved in the short passing game, using more flats and screens to neutralize the rush. He was still too obsessed with his 5-wide personnel though, and I think that's where the majority of his offense's short-comings materialize.

 

 

But like you said, he's gone. We're running a WCO now. Should be interesting to see how it works out 

[ColtsBlueFL]

So basically he is a disciple of Harbaugh and Roman.

 

Imagine the 49ers offense with Andrew Luck behind center and Reggie Wayne at wideout.

 

49'ers have (arguably) the best O line in the NFL, and Frank Gore.  Not to mention the extra skill sets Harbaugh installed by replacing Smith with Kaepernick.  I think our O line and my imagination circuits get blocked.  

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Per PFT...

 

Hamilton said he did plan to change the offense from what former coordinator and now-Cardinals head coach Bruce Arians installed, leaning toward more West Coast principles and away from the deep passing game Arians preferred. It’ll come with more of an emphasis on running the ball as well....“But I enjoy watching our guys just come off the ball, the guys up front, and trying to knock the opponent back. I’m a big believer of the power-running game and, . . . I think that ultimately opens up your passing game, the play-action passes.’’

[coltsfanatic24]

I still think will pass more then run but there will be more 2 TE sets. Fleener should have a pro bowl caliber year because the offense will be designed for him unlike this year it was more suited for wayne. Pep used fleener similar to what the saints do with graham, he's lined up in the slot and moves all over the field.

[Superman]

You may be right. At the beginning of the year I was unimpressed with the Arians hire. But his leadership and demeanor during this past season warmed me to him. Luck would've taken hits in the west coast system as well because (our offensive line sucked) the checkdowns are the same...deepest WR route to shortest...so I'm not sure that factored in. It may just be that Hamilton was indeed the best guy out there AND the fact that he was with Luck at Stanford may have pushed it into no brainer territory.

 

Eitherway, we're here now. Arians is gone and I'm flushing the whole thing.

 

The Indianapolis Colts are now running the West Coast Offense.

 

I agree with this post overall, just wanted to comment on the bolded.

 

Our line did suck, and Luck would have taken hits, but I firmly believe he would have taken far less hits if he were playing in an offense that featured more high percentage pass plays. He would have been getting rid of the ball faster because the route combinations would be designed to get receivers open off the snap. 

 

Second thing is that the checkdowns are NOT the same. They're entirely different. They often didn't exist in Arians' gameplan, and when they did, Luck was often already under pressure. There were very few HB dumpoffs in Arians' system. Brown and Ballard combined for 26 receptions this season, in a year where Luck threw 600 times. And I'd estimate that 25% of those 26 receptions were designed to go to the running back, like Ballard's touchdown in Tennessee, or Brown's slip screen. A lot of the short passes came open on routes that had to clear the entire formation. 

 

Like you said, the Colts now have a different offense. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse. I just think we can expect some significant adjustments to our passing game moving forward, and I think those adjustments will make the offense more efficient and take some pressure off of the line and off of the quarterback.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Second thing is that the checkdowns are NOT the same. They're entirely different.

 

You're incorrect. The QB's evolution in the West Coast Offense is from Deep Route to Short route. It seems counter-intuitive but that is the case. And it was the same way in Arians' offense. 

 

I think the issue was Andrew is used to gobbling up yardage and continued to try and do so in Arians offense.

[Gavin]

You're incorrect. The QB's evolution in the West Coast Offense is from Deep Route to Short route. It seems counter-intuitive but that is the case. And it was the same way in Arians' offense. 

 

I think the issue was Andrew is used to gobbling up yardage and continued to try and do so in Arians offense.

The whole West Coast philosophy of quick high percentage passing plays is counter productive  to your argument not to mention game film from any number of Stanford games the last couple years in my opinion plus this quote from Pep himself “It’ll be a variation of the West Coast [with] West Coast principles,’’ Hamilton said. “The short, efficient passing game, a high completion rate.

[Quantum88]

I think the argument of WCO or Vertical attack is somewhat moot if we don't significantly upgrade our O-line. The WCO requires a running game for it to be optimally productive and the vertical attack requires time to get receivers down field and open. Both require a quality O-line which we do not have. Unless we fix that, a WCO will just lead to an increase of 3 and outs, fewer points and more losses. It may keep Luck alive longer, but will not get us any closer to the Super Bowl. Our O-line has to be fixed or what offensive scheme we run will not matter.

[YOUR GM]

I think that some Colts fans are (shamefully...because we should know better) walking right by the reality that at some point, Luck is going to call his own plays. So that doesn't matter.

 

The biggest impact this guy will bring is the west coast culture and way of doing things. Hopefully he will get those things established before he is out the door and we bring in another west coast guy to manage what should be at that point a turn-key operation.

 

 

More importantly, this guy might be the one that gets the ball rolling for Luck to take on more responsibility at the LOS. He did it in college, so it only makes sense that they would try to incorporate that aspect into their pro-style reincarnation of said offense. I don't think Arians would've ever surrendered that much freedom to Luck. He even made a comment in an interview saying he would never let Luck have as much control as Peyton had when he was here

[Superman]

You're incorrect. The QB's evolution in the West Coast Offense is from Deep Route to Short route. It seems counter-intuitive but that is the case. And it was the same way in Arians' offense. 

 

I think the issue was Andrew is used to gobbling up yardage and continued to try and do so in Arians offense.

 

That's the case on some plays. Not all. And that's also true of Arians' offense. But the difference that I was talking about was specifically the dumpoffs and checkdowns. I'm not talking about progressions, I'm talking about how much more often Luck will be able to throw high percentage passes if his first reads aren't open. The WCO features route combinations that promote efficiency.

 

As for the thought that Luck is used to gobbling up yardage, I'm not sure what you mean. In college, he played in an offense that featured high efficiency passes. It even led to questions about his arm strength.

 

Arians' system is designed to stress a defense vertically. The quarterback is looking for downfield options on 75% of the passing plays, and probably more often than that, there is no dumpoff safety valve. 

[GoColts00]

I'd rather not draft Cooper and draft Warford in the 3rd round. I'd also rather draft Menelik Watson as RT in 1st round. Andy Levitre is the only guard I'd be really interested in. Other than him, the rest of the zone-personnel are cast-aways like McGlynn and Justice were this year. 

I like Warford better than Cooper, however Warford is Not a zone-blocking OG. He's a man-blocking OG. I also like Watson, but he is a bit of a 1 year wonder. He has great potential, but for me, production over a few seasons is better. Production talks! (so to speak). McGlynn sucked and we need to let him go.period. Justice was actually ok when he was healthy. not great, but ok. I would definitely like to have starting RT with Justice as the back-up.

[Gavin]

I like Warford better than Cooper, however Warford is Not a zone-blocking OG. He's a man-blocking OG. I also like Watson, but he is a bit of a 1 year wonder. He has great potential, but for me, production over a few seasons is better. Production talks! (so to speak). McGlynn sucked and we need to let him go.period. Justice was actually ok when he was healthy. not great, but ok. I would definitely like to have starting RT with Justice as the back-up.

For my money if we are going to continue to be a Man blocking scheme then I want Vasquez and Travis Frederick-both for LG and RG

[GoColts00]

For my money if we are going to continue to be a Man blocking scheme then I want Vasquez and Travis Frederick-both for LG and RG

i personally would much rather have a man-blocking scheme than zone. I like Vasquez & Frederick. I agree with you that both of them would be a vast improvement over what we have now. I like Frederick's versatility too. being able to go from OG to C, if needed. I'm just hoping that Grigson looks at performance over a few seasons rather than what somebody did last season alone. I would still like someone at RT as well. I think Justice was ok, but much better as a back-up, when needed, from here on out.

[Superman]

Eh, It's college, IMHO your not really winning unless your pretty much undefeated.

 

Wowser.

 

They were 11-1 heading into their bowl game. That's "pretty much undefeated." Just like Alabama the last two seasons.

[Gavin]

i personally would much rather have a man-blocking scheme than zone. I like Vasquez & Frederick. I agree with you that both of them would be a vast improvement over what we have now. I like Frederick's versatility too. being able to go from OG to C, if needed. I'm just hoping that Grigson looks at performance over a few seasons rather than what somebody did last season alone. I would still like someone at RT as well. I think Justice was ok, but much better as a back-up, when needed, from here on out.

I'd prefer Zone, from everything I read it seems much easier to run behind plus I think the majority of our O Line in my opinion currently fits Zone better (Thats not to say they would be better)