Interesting article on how luck is better than RG3

[Playoffs2013]

NOT TRYING TO START LUCK VS RG3

But this is interesting

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8550792

[Dan]

I'm not sure I agree with the way he's written the article, it seems very agenda-driven anti-Griffin material, even if the foundation of the article (being, Luck deserves just as many plaudits as Griffin) is solid enough. I must admit that Griffin's media exposure is getting to Jets/Sanchez/Tebow level - and before people take that as being a slant at the man, of course it isn't, he doesn't ask for it.

[NewColtsFan]

Stories like this drive me crazy.

Luck has played 6 NFL games. Griffin has played 7. At this point, who cares who is better?!?!?

We haven't even played one stinking season! Why does any serious fan care about who is better now?? I don't think most do.

But while I'm a Rick Reilly admirer, this strikes me as a column that screams.... "I have a deadline coming and nothing to write about? What do I write about? What will make people click on my column and read? Oh, I know, how about a column about the two hottest rookies to come into the NFL at the same time and will forever be linked for their careers! I'll do that!"

That's what this feels like.... it's nonsense. No matter who you think is better, or who Reilly thinks is better.... who cares?!

Here's another link:

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8550792/andrew-luck-better-qb-robert-griffin-iii

[betheafan41]

my words exactly. im so tired of hearing who is better then who. and why that QB is better then the other. both QB's were picked 1 & 2 and both will have a good career. Washingtons offense is set up for RG3 and indy's offense is molding in perfect for Luck. both QB's have an avg to below avg defense right now. RG3 is doing it with out his # 1 WR cause garcon tore his plantar plate and luck is doing it with 1 pro bowl vet, a guy who is coming off of knee injuries and the rest rookies. their going to have their bad games, their going to have their horrible games, their going to have their good games and their going to have their great games. in the end both have the potential to be really good!!!

[JWF]

And Reilly was hyping up Griffin like crazy after week 1. Cant stand Reilly. Were not even half way into these guys' first season.

The media just needs to learn when to slow their roll.

[HtownColt]

smh and the articles on this are just pouring out. here is Bob Kravitz take on it. http://www.indystar.com/article/20121025/SPORTS15/210260318/

[21isSuperman]

The problem with the article is that its main point is that Luck has a better QBR rating while despite RG3's better passer rating, the passer rating is a poor stat. It's essentially using arguably the most subjective stat to argue that stats are misleading. While stats are misleading, the two situations of these QBs is very different. For that reason, it will be very difficult to say who is "better"

[Andy]

Half of their rookie years aren't done, let's not have a who's better thus far, or a who's the better pick kinda articles.

Although, I do think RG3 is a bit overrated, he has been performing better than Luck.

[Qwiz]

And Reilly was hyping up Griffin like crazy after week 1. Cant stand Reilly. Were not even half way into these guys' first season.

The media just needs to learn when to slow their roll.

^^^ Yep.

[Nobody]

I don't think we can deny Bob has been better. Sure, Luck has been unfairly underrated and RG3 overrated, but Griffin has slightly better. No idea what would happen if they switched, though.

" More than 20 percent of RG3's passes this season haven't even traveled across the line of scrimmage. Only 6 percent of Luck's haven't."

"His (Luck) average pass completion travels 8.6 yards in the air, highest in the NFL. Griffin's is 5.8, one of the lowest."

Wow. I knew RG was dumping it off a lot, but, wow...

[HtownColt]

Luck 3-3 and RGIII 3-4 so they even

[southwest1]

"Jeff Bennett, the curator of the most comprehensive QB stat ever invented, ESPN's QBR (total quarterback rating)."

Am I the only one who detests this *ic QBR nonsense? It's like the executive bosses at ESPN got intoxicated one night and tired of the same old football taking points and said "okay guys, let's create any insignificant statistic that proves absolutely nothing but sounds like a Canton Hall of Fame essential number.

Jeff Bennett has way too much free time on his hands IMO and not enough work related duties to occupy his attention. The QBR is a pointless statistic with no legitimate purpose or merit.

Stats that have value:

--1st down completions.

--3rd down completions.

--The number of fumbles, turnovers, and sacks.

--Consecutive starting streaks and winning streaks.

--Time of possession

The QBR? Give me a break...HaHaHa

[Andy]

"Jeff Bennett, the curator of the most comprehensive QB stat ever invented, ESPN's QBR (total quarterback rating)."

Am I the only one who detests this *ic QBR nonsense? It's like the executive bosses at ESPN got intoxicated one night and tired of the same old football taking points and said "okay guys, let's create any insignificant statistic that proves absolutely nothing but sounds like a Canton Hall of Fame essential number.

Jeff Bennett has way too much free time on his hands IMO and not enough work related duties to occupy his attention. The QBR is a pointless statistic with no legitimate purpose or merit.

No, you're not. Many people on the board dislike the QBR. A system that rates Andrew Luck ahead of Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees cannot be correct.

[NewColtsFan]

smh and the articles on this are just pouring out. here is Bob Kravitz take on it. http://www.indystar....TS15/210260318/

Thanks, I like the Kravitz version much, Much, MUCH more....

He doesn't seem to be trying as hard to make a point....

Goodness, it's so early in their careers.... so, so early...

[southwest1]

No, you're not. Many people on the board dislike the QBR. A system that rates Andrew Luck ahead of Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees cannot be correct.

Thanks Andy. I agree with everything you just said. It's nice to know I am not alone in my distaste for this bizarre statistical creation. It just bothers me when ESPN treats the QBR like the Holy Grail of NFL stats....At least, that's how it feels to me anyway.

[southwest1]

"The Colts are relying more on Luck to throw the ball downfield than Washington is with Griffin. There's a good reason Luck's completion percentage is so low; he's always putting pressure on a defense by going intermediate and deep."

Precisely...

This line did make me chuckle though.

"Robert Griffin III has become Tim Tebow with braids." He's right except, unlike Tebow, RG3 can actually read coverages, anticipate throws, and move the chains both on the ground and through the air.

[southwest1]

" I don't even read what you guys write." Yeah, I like the confidence in Luck to eliminate distractions, white noise, and press clippings good or bad in scope.

All great NFL QB's know how to eliminate peripheral garbage and focus on what really matters: field execution and their relationship with their team mates and coaches.

From a Kevin Costner Baseball movie called "For The Love Of The Game," erase the white noise and "clear the mechanism."

[Malakai432]

Stories like this drive me crazy.

Luck has played 6 NFL games. Griffin has played 7.

Hey hey hey RGiii is a seasoned veteran who has played infinitely longer than Luck. I mean come'on man that 1 game is HUGH!!!!!!! RGiii is light years ahead of Luck because of all that experience. Luck will always be behind RGiii.

[JoKeR]

NOT TRYING TO START LUCK VS RG3

But this is interesting

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8550792

That's what the article is trying to do though.

No biggie, just found it funny.

[Jay305]

Wow you guys never change RG3 is a great player and so Andrew. I was the biggest RG3 advocate on here and honestly if we had to do it again Id go with Luck but it has nothing to do with skill. Anyone still denying RG3s skills is clearly bias.

[JoKeR]

Wow you guys never change RG3 is a great player and so Andrew. I was the biggest RG3 advocate on here and honestly if we had to do it again Id go with Luck but it has nothing to do with skill. Anyone still denying RG3s skills is clearly bias.

It's bias vs bias a lot of the time.

[The Fish]

Bert has been up for 48 hours.

[Jay305]

Yes RG3s stats are better but thats because of their style of offense, which is very effective. Our offense isnt really helping Luck and hes still playing great. Are running hasnt been consistent nor the receivers. Redskins are doing a better job catering to RG3s skills I wish we would do the same. Send our TEs up the seams and let our wrs do work underneath.

[Jay305]

Luck is throwing like 74% of his throws to wrs and like 6% to his rbs. Aside from Wayne our receivers arent doing Luck justice deep.

[BleedingBlue]

enough already. they're both great, fun to watch. Both will be great in 5 years too.

/end of discussion.

[HtownColt]

Luck is throwing like 74% of his throws to wrs and like 6% to his rbs. Aside from Wayne our receivers arent doing Luck justice deep.

and Luck isn't doing Avery no justice deep

[Coltsman1788]

This article was interesting but to me it seemed the author went to great lengths to try to make a case for Luck being better than RG3 right now. I mean if you have to give that complex of an explanation to justify your point why even bother. Most people will just believe what they see. All the formulas & variables in the world isn't going to convince most people as much as the simple eye test. Now personally, I think it is just too early in both player's careers to be getting into this. Let's just let them both develop and see where they are a few years down the road. I am expecting both to have great careers before it is all said and done. RG3 is a phenomenal athlete and the Colts franchise is in good hands with Luck.

[loluck]

One of the worst sports articles I've ever read.

I'll just take select quotes from fellow redskins fans since I'm on an iPad and it is a pain to type:

ouvan59 says: "Just went back and looked at the splits for both. Reilly, as we suspected, completely manipulated the numbers. Yes, RGIII has more passes thrown behind the line of scrimmage but Luck has more passes thrown 10 yards or fewer (that includes behind the line of scrimmage) 132-119. But the real divider among the two is passes from 11-20 yards. RGIII completes 71.0% of these passes for an average of 15.71 ypa which is astounding. Luck completes 51.7% of his passes with no TDs and 4 ints and 8.38 ypa. So in reality it's Luck who is relying on the short pass not RGIII."

Burgold says: "Let's see.

Higher completion percentage.

More yards per completion.

More rushing yards.

More touchdowns.

Less turnovers.

Got it. That guy must be the worse quarterback.

And on the fumbles, most of them were on bobbled handoffs."

Hiro says: "So he gives Luck credit for 'miraculously' bringing the Colts back against the ****ing Jaguars, only to have that victory snatched away, yet makes no mention of the exact same thing happening with Robert against the Super Bowl champions?

Spare me. This guy either oozes haterate, or is just playing the contrarian for hits and reads on his little article."

s0crates says:

"I'm not sure I'm buying this QBR thing.

How much does this QBR weigh rushing stats? (I'm guessing not much).

Griffin III: 64 attempts for 468 yards and 6 TDs.

Luck: 20 attempts for 115 yards and 3 TDs.

How does this QBR weigh turnovers? (I'm curious).

Griffin: 2 lost fumbles and 3 interceptions. 5 total.

Luck: 3 lost fumbles and 7 interceptions. 10 total.

How does it determine accuracy if not by completion percentage? (I mean this must be relevant right).

Griffin: 70%

Luck: 54%

Is yards per attempt considered?

Griffin: 8.5 (189 for 1601 yards).

Luck: 6.7 (250 for 1674 yards).

I'm sorry but I'm having trouble seeing how you can possibly argue Luck is better than RG3 this season. The passing yards and scores are about the same, only RG3 has had 60 less passing attempts. In every other conceivable category (turnovers, rushing yards, rushing touchdowns, rushing average, completion percentage, yards per attempt), RG3 is better than Luck. Apparently, the only stat that Luck is better than Griffin in is this mysterious QBR. I would love to know how this QBR is calculated, because it seems to me that it would take a substantial manipulation of the data to make Luck come out better than RG3."

And on and on it goes...Rick Reily destroyed.

Mod note: Do not link to or promote other boards as it causes issues with their fans, especially where they are discussing something concerning our team. This only serves to create board wars and all such links will be deleted and posts/threads edited.

http://forums.colts.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

Edited October 28, 2012 by shecolt
Links to another team's forum

[John Dee]

This article was interesting but to me it seemed the author went to great lengths to try to make a case for Luck being better than RG3 right now. I mean if you have to give that complex of an explanation to justify your point why even bother. Most people will just believe what they see. All the formulas & variables in the world isn't going to convince most people as much as the simple eye test. Now personally, I think it is just too early in both player's careers to be getting into this. Let's just let them both develop and see where they are a few years down the road. I am expecting both to have great careers before it is all said and done. RG3 is a phenomenal athlete and the Colts franchise is in good hands with Luck.

Listen to this,... Shanny has designed his O specifically for RG3, I have been saying it for a few weeks. ... now someone breaks it down in a nice way..

Great interview.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8550473

[RGIII]

Listen to this,... Shanny has designed his O specifically for RG3, I have been saying it for a few weeks. ... now someone breaks it down in a nice way..

Great interview.

http://espn.go.com/e...play?id=8550473

It was interesting to hear the contrast in Cosell's remarks on Cam and Griffin. More or less reflects what I've witnessed and stated around here and elsewhere, though. Chud's doing something horribly wrong down in Charlotte and the Shanahans have seemingly done a rather more impressive job of implementing the option into a real NFL offense.

You have to keep in mind that this offense wasn't really built from the ground up for Griffin. The fact of the matter is that Griffin perfectly fits what Mike Shanahan has been doing over the last two plus decades. RGIII just has certain outstanding attributes that have enabled us to add new looks and new wrinkles to that offense to make it even more dynamic. Luck would fit a lot of the stuff Shanahan loves to do as well but he would probably be a little less conducive to the college ball dynamic we've added because his speed doesn't stand out as much as Griffin's at an NFL level.

[IndyBarb]

It was interesting to hear the contrast in Cosell's remarks on Cam and Griffin. More or less reflects what I've witnessed and stated around here and elsewhere, though. Chud's doing something horribly wrong down in Charlotte and the Shanahans have seemingly done a rather more impressive job of implementing the option into a real NFL offense.

You have to keep in mind that this offense wasn't really built from the ground up for Griffin. The fact of the matter is that Griffin perfectly fits what Mike Shanahan has been doing over the last two plus decades. RGIII just has certain outstanding attributes that have enabled us to add new looks and new wrinkles to that offense to make it even more dynamic. Luck would fit a lot of the stuff Shanahan loves to do as well but he would probably be a little less conducive to the college ball dynamic we've added because his speed doesn't stand out as much as Griffin's at an NFL level.

Or perhaps, a few may be wearing rose colored glasses. It troubles me that we have to discuss this RGIII and Luck comparison's on this forum. Luck is "our quarterback", not RGIII!

[RGIII]

Or perhaps, a few may be wearing rose colored glasses. It troubles me that we have to discuss this RGIII and Luck comparison's on this forum. Luck is "our quarterback", not RGIII!

You don't have to discuss these comparisons but they are going to continue to come up and people will choose to discuss them on here and elsewhere. If I were in your shoes I'd be welcoming a lot of these more recent comparisons because they seem to reflect the fact that, while Tannehill and Wilson and even Weeden have had their moments, Luck is still the top dog of that class and he has clearly been showing the talent that got him drafted first even if the stats would lead some to think otherwise.

[HungarianColtsFan]

I don't get this heavy comparing RGIII and Luck.

Both guys are very talented and are already among top 10 QBs, and that's enough. If we take every circumstances into consideration, their performance is very high and they are close to eachother.

As being a Colts' fan I'm taking Luck over RGIII, but this is a very subjective approach.

We are lucky to see 2 such talented gentelmen to grow and shine!

Edited October 27, 2012 by HungarianColtsFan

[southwest1]

I don1t get this heavy comparing RGIII and Luck.

Both guys are very talented and are already among top 10 QBs, and that's enough. If we take every circumstances into consideration, their performance is very high and they are close to eachother.

As being a Colts' fan I'm taking Luck over RGIII, but this is a very subjective approach.

We are lucky to see 2 such talented gentelmen to grow and shine!

Yes, just because Luck and RG3 emerged out of the same draft class I like you HCF am growing more than a little tired of these constant cookie cutter comparisons between QBs. They both will flourish in this league no doubt, but just let Luck and RG3 lead their own squads and recognize they are not identical field generals please. It's getting a little ridiculous IMO.

[HungarianColtsFan]

Yes, just because Luck and RG3 emerged out of the same draft class I like you HCF am growing more than a little tired of these constant cookie cutter comparisons between QBs. They both will flourish in this league no doubt, but just let Luck and RG3 lead their own squads and recognize they are not identical field generals please. It's getting a little ridiculous IMO.

I fear this madness won't be over soon. I've just found an other one on nfl.com, but I won't post it, I don't want to carry on this stuff here. They're both great, and one of them is playing for us.

Period.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

I'm not sure I agree with the way he's written the article, it seems very agenda-driven anti-Griffin material, even if the foundation of the article (being, Luck deserves just as many plaudits as Griffin) is solid enough. I must admit that Griffin's media exposure is getting to Jets/Sanchez/Tebow level - and before people take that as being a slant at the man, of course it isn't, he doesn't ask for it.

When a player is doing multiple endorsement commercials and trademarking his name BEFORE he has even taken one snap in the NFL, you can’t tell me that he hasn’t asked for it.

[loluck]

When a player is doing multiple endorsement commercials and trademarking his name BEFORE he has even taken one snap in the NFL, you can’t tell me that he hasn’t asked for it.

Lolololololololololololuck

Who in their right mind turns down endorsement deals? Sorry, Luck isn't marketable, what with that Andre the Giant voice, I'm sure the sponsors are beating down the door for him to be their spokesman loluck

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Lolololololololololololuck

Who in their right mind turns down endorsement deals? Sorry, Luck isn't marketable, what with that Andre the Giant voice, I'm sure the sponsors are beating down the door for him to be their spokesman loluck

I didn’t say he should. If you actually read my post I was stating that I didn’t believe that he hadn’t asked for the hype.

Maybe instead of rushing to bash luck, you may want to work on your comprehension skills.

[loluck]

I didn’t say he should. If you actually read my post I was stating that I didn’t believe that he hadn’t asked for the hype.

Maybe instead of rushing to bash luck, you may want to work on your comprehension skills.

Asked for it? What is "it" exactly? People wanted to pay him because he helps sell their products. It's not his fault most NFL fans have a subpar I.Q. Your argument makes no sense. Is it the water in the Midwest?

[southwest1]

When a player is doing multiple endorsement commercials and trademarking his name BEFORE he has even taken one snap in the NFL, you can’t tell me that he hasn’t asked for it.

Lolololololololololololuck

Who in their right mind turns down endorsement deals? Sorry, Luck isn't marketable, what with that Andre the Giant voice, I'm sure the sponsors are beating down the door for him to be their spokesman loluck

This age old argument always fascinates me. Do you take whatever advertisement deal that lands on your doorstep or do you respectfully decline all endorsement deals and hunker down in the film room, master your playbook, and try to earn the respect of everyone in the locker room? Did you come from a poor or impoverished background or a lavish and extravagant one? HOF CB Deion Sanders always says "money makes you more of who you are." Do you love football completely or do you love what the sport brings you as accolades? Money, fame, cars, women, and international recognition?

Personally, I don't have a problem with either approach to endorsement deals as long as athletes remember 1 thing: Respect in the NFL is earned; nothing is given to you even #1 draft picks. It all depends on how you were raised and brought up and if you ever had people in your life who would tell you when you are wrong, acting like an fool, and full of ______. Edit We all need people in our lives who knew us when we were a nobody and far from famous to keep us humble and remind us how good we have it, even at the worst possible times. There is always someone else worse off than you. It gives an athlete the proper perspective on things.

So, to answer the initial question: To take an endorsement deal or not to take an endorsement deal...It depends, do you have someone not on your payroll that refuses to kiss your caboose and not subscribe to the notion that you "walk on water?" If so, go ahead and take the deal. If not, just say no and walk away.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Coltssouth
Describing maksed curse word