Reitz

[YOUR GM]

Does anyone know if we played him at tackle at all last year? If so, when he comes back, I think he'd be better suited at RT than Justice at this point. Justice has been a disappointment all year, and Reitz could immediately improve the pass protection on the right side of the line, IMO

[PrincetonTiger]

interesting and can't remember

[GoColts8818]

Does anyone know if we played him at tackle at all last year? If so, when he comes back, I think he'd be better suited at RT than Justice at this point. Justice has been a disappointment all year, and Reitz could immediately improve the pass protection on the right side of the line, IMO

No he's played guard for us. Justice has not been a disappointment when you factor in what we gave up for him which was like 16 spots in the draft in the fifth round. You could make a very strong case going into the game against the Packers he has been our best lineman not named Castonzo. Once Reitz get's healthy I think we have a really good left side of the line. Rather than mess with that and shift a guy out to a poistion he's never played I think we should develop the left side and then address the right side in the off-season.

Honestly I don't know why people are so interested in moving guys from their positions to playing other spots on the line. First it was wanting to move Ijalana to guard and now it's wanting to move Reitz to tackle. Why don't we just let them develop at the positions they are used to playing?

[PrincetonTiger]

No he's played guard for us. Justice has not been a disappointment when you factor in what we gave up for him which was like 16 spots in the draft in the fifth round. You could make a very strong case going into the game against the Packers he has been our best lineman not named Castonzo. Once Reitz get's healthy I think we have a really good left side of the line. Rather than mess with that and shift a guy out to a poistion he's never played I think we should develop the left side and then address the right side in the off-season.

Honestly I don't know why people are so interested in moving guys from their positions to playing other spots on the line. First it was wanting to move Ijalana to guard and now it's wanting to move Reitz to tackle. Why don't we just let them develop at the positions they are used to playing?

It is not fun

[YOUR GM]

No he's played guard for us. Justice has not been a disappointment when you factor in what we gave up for him which was like 16 spots in the draft in the fifth round. You could make a very strong case going into the game against the Packers he has been our best lineman not named Castonzo. Once Reitz get's healthy I think we have a really good left side of the line. Rather than mess with that and shift a guy out to a poistion he's never played I think we should develop the left side and then address the right side in the off-season.

Honestly I don't know why people are so interested in moving guys from their positions to playing other spots on the line. First it was wanting to move Ijalana to guard and now it's wanting to move Reitz to tackle. Why don't we just let them develop at the positions they are used to playing?

This makes no sense. Linemen get reps in practice at other positions anyways. If McGlynn could go right in, with no practice, and play center when Satele got hurt (and not miss a beat), why can't Reitz (who was originally worked out as a tight end and tackle in Baltimore and Miami) come in and take over right tackle? I'm only opposed to disrupting chemistry on the line if the formula we have is actually working to begin with. If Reitz doesn't work out at tackle, what's the worst that could happen? Luck gets blasted because of a blown assignme... Oh, wait...that's already happening

The line play has not been so great at any point this season that I would consider it counter-productive to try people at different spots. How many different positions has Linkenbach started at already this year?

[Nostrils]

This makes no sense. Linemen get reps in practice at other positions anyways. If McGlynn could go right in, with no practice, and play center when Satele got hurt (and not miss a beat), why can't Reitz (who was originally worked out as a tight end and tackle in Baltimore and Miami) come in and take over right tackle? I'm only opposed to disrupting chemistry on the line if the formula we have is actually working to begin with. If Reitz doesn't work out at tackle, what's the worst that could happen? Luck gets blasted because of a blown assignme... Oh, wait...that's already happening

The line play has not been so great at any point this season that I would consider it counter-productive to try people at different spots. How many different positions has Linkenbach started at already this year?

I think Justice has done alright... no need to bench him

[CR91]

was it justice fault luck got rocked by perry?

[Gavin]

Justice has not performed well overall but like GoColts said we got what we paid for, Justice starting in the NFL likely ends at the end of the year, personally due to his Slow Feet Syndrome I would put him at Right Guard because he is not nimble footed but he is strong and Mcglynn is nimble footed not to mention that was Mcglynns position in college (I dont like when players are moved around for the NFL, its works but not alot with O Linemen)

[YOUR GM]

was it justice fault luck got rocked by perry?

Yes

[Gavin]

This makes no sense. Linemen get reps in practice at other positions anyways. If McGlynn could go right in, with no practice, and play center when Satele got hurt (and not miss a beat), why can't Reitz (who was originally worked out as a tight end and tackle in Baltimore and Miami) come in and take over right tackle? I'm only opposed to disrupting chemistry on the line if the formula we have is actually working to begin with. If Reitz doesn't work out at tackle, what's the worst that could happen? Luck gets blasted because of a blown assignme... Oh, wait...that's already happening

The line play has not been so great at any point this season that I would consider it counter-productive to try people at different spots. How many different positions has Linkenbach started at already this year?

Mcglynn also got time at Philly at Center and in college at Pitt

[YOUR GM]

Mcglynn also got time at Philly at Center and in college at Pitt

Reitz has experience at tackle, just not as a Colt

[CR91]

Reitz has experience at tackle, just not as a Colt

he was the backup tackle in baltimore, but that was on the PS not a real game

[YOUR GM]

he was the backup tackle in baltimore, but that was on the PS not a real game

He's taken reps before at tackle though, was my point

[TheJACKCOLT]

I doubt the Colts will move Reitz to tackle but, either way with Reitz on the field our O-line will be better, if we can get our five best guys together and give them a chance to gel this offense could be lethal the second half of the season.

[jbaron04]

was it justice fault luck got rocked by perry?

no the te coby fleener missed block

[krunk]

Does anyone know if we played him at tackle at all last year? If so, when he comes back, I think he'd be better suited at RT than Justice at this point. Justice has been a disappointment all year, and Reitz could immediately improve the pass protection on the right side of the line, IMO

Justice has not been a disappointment. He's probably the only lineman on the team that hasn't been giving up a ton of sacks.

He had some moments that weren't the best yesterday but overall he hasn't been the one letting up the sacks.

[Superman]

no the te coby fleener missed block

I don't think it was Fleener's responsibility. He was supposed to be a chipper. Justice didn't block anyone on that play. He was confused by the rush, waffled back and forth, and Fleener was too far to the outside for that to be his actual assignment.

Justice has some good moments in yesterday's game, particularly on the two point conversion at the end. I don't fault him for the penalties, either. The first one seemed phantom, and on the second one, he and McGlynn jumped, so there must have been a miscommunication there. But he definitely whiffed on the Perry sack.

[jbaron04]

I don't think it was Fleener's responsibility. He was supposed to be a chipper. Justice didn't block anyone on that play. He was confused by the rush, waffled back and forth, and Fleener was too far to the outside for that to be his actual assignment.

Justice has some good moments in yesterday's game, particularly on the two point conversion at the end. I don't fault him for the penalties, either. The first one seemed phantom, and on the second one, he and McGlynn jumped, so there must have been a miscommunication there. But he definitely whiffed on the Perry sack.

fleener was suppose to block him and justice take the inside guy fleener block out then slide in

[jbaron04]

[Superman]

fleener was suppose to block him and justice take the inside guy fleener block out then slide in

How do you know that? Justice kicked out automatically. There was no inside guy. There were two blitzers coming from the outside defensive left, Perry and Shields. Justice went to take the closer one, Perry, and while Fleener pushed him a little bit, he didn't engage, and immediately went to get Shields, who was coming on a staggered blitz toward the inside. It looked to me like the blitz was designed to get the protection preoccupied with Perry so Shields could come free. It worked even better than that, though, as Perry came free before Shields could even get close. But my problem is that Justice didn't block anyone. His initial steps were toward the outside, as if that was his assignment, and Fleener picked Shields up right away. Justice didn't block anyone.

I think it's hard to tell, given the fact that we don't know what the protection was. But if Justice simply picks Perry up, that's a clean pocket. Fleener had Shields.

[krunk]

How do you know that? Justice kicked out automatically. There was no inside guy. There were two blitzers coming from the outside defensive left, Perry and Shields. Justice went to take the closer one, Perry, and while Fleener pushed him a little bit, he didn't engage, and immediately went to get Shields, who was coming on a staggered blitz toward the inside. It looked to me like the blitz was designed to get the protection preoccupied with Perry so Shields could come free. It worked even better than that, though, as Perry came free before Shields could even get close. But my problem is that Justice didn't block anyone. His initial steps were toward the outside, as if that was his assignment, and Fleener picked Shields up right away. Justice didn't block anyone.

I think it's hard to tell, given the fact that we don't know what the protection was. But if Justice simply picks Perry up, that's a clean pocket. Fleener had Shields.

I don't think that is what happened. What appears to have happened was Fleener had the outside rusher, but he left his man because he was too concerned about the impact of the inside rusher that was running right across his face. It doesn't make any sense to have the tackle pick up a guy who is rushing on the outside of the tight end. Looks like Justice was expecting Fleener to pick up the outside rush. That's what it looks like to me.

[ColtsLegacy]

I don't think that is what happened. What appears to have happened was Fleener had the outside rusher, but he left his man because he was too concerned about the impact of the inside rusher that was running right across his face. It doesn't make any sense to have the tackle pick up a guy who is rushing on the outside of the tight end. Looks like Justice was expecting Fleener to pick up the outside rush. That's what it looks like to me.

I agree.

[Jason_]

As Superman said, there's no way for us to know exactly what the assignments were on that play. However, I just watched the play again a couple of times in slow-motion. Fleener saw both Perry and Shields coming. Justice was backing up behind Fleener and appeared to also see both rushers coming. Fleener pushed Perry to force him wide and then picked up Shields. Justice appeared to see all of this and still went after Shields even though Fleener had already moved in the direction to pick up Shields. This allowed Perry to come free. if Justice had continued wide he could have picked up Perry and kept Luck from getting hit. As Superman said, Justice didn't block anyone and he went after Shields even though Fleener was in front of him and he had clear vision to see Fleener simply give Perry the push and then engage Shields.

[Superman]

I don't think that is what happened. What appears to have happened was Fleener had the outside rusher, but he left his man because he was too concerned about the impact of the inside rusher that was running right across his face. It doesn't make any sense to have the tackle pick up a guy who is rushing on the outside of the tight end. Looks like Justice was expecting Fleener to pick up the outside rush. That's what it looks like to me.

That's exactly what happened. I don't know what the assignments were, but at least Fleener blocked someone. It was a well-designed blitz, which is what Dom Capers does best. But when you have two guys blocking two guys, and one successfully blocks while another doesn't, it's kind of hard to blame the guy who actually blocked (Fleener got hands on both rushers, as a matter of fact) instead of the guy who was doing the Electric Slide and never blocked anyone.

[needanoline63]

I posted a topic like this during pre season, I think reitz would be an awesome tackle. Idc what people say, he is to tall to be a guard. A simple position swap would be good. But justice as a guard I'm not to sure about, I would personally put aq Shipley at guard and see what that does. I like Shipley, he had a good pre season and a solid start at green bay.

[Warhawk]

EVEN IF you assign him the blame for that play - which is difficult to determine without knowing who was responsible for what on that play - he was otherwise pretty solid. He seems to false start like Diem, but, well, that's par for the course. While I don't think he's the long term answer, he's certainly not so bad that we have to transform Reitz into a tackle to compensate, especially since with Olsen gone we have, like, 1 and a half (the half is Link) guards on the roster not counting Reitz, and 4 and a half tackles.

[NagelHausForge]

Either way I am sure that mistake won't happen again... Whether it was Fleener's or Justice's error... You know the O-Line coach is playing that footage over and over and over and over....

I think Justice has done a good job at RT. I like the way Reitz blocks inside and opens up lanes. Let's see what the line can do with him back at LG and go from there...

I also think Shipley did a very decent job at center. He's a big boy and I wouldn't mind seeing him in the line-up somewhere...

[Warhawk]

Justice has not been a disappointment. He's probably the only lineman on the team that hasn't been giving up a ton of sacks.

He had some moments that weren't the best yesterday but overall he hasn't been the one letting up the sacks.

Castanzo hasn't either, as evidenced by Peppers, Allen, and Matthews combining for a grand total of 1 sack in 3 games (and on top of that, the stats from last week on Football Outsiders suggest we are much more effective running to the left side as well). They also had us as the 6th best pass blocking team in the NFL, though that may be somewhat skewed by Luck's pocket awareness and mobility. Still, I think our offensive line problems as pass protection goes may be slightly overstated. Sure, we're not where we want to be in that regard, and we're not where we were during most of Manning's tenure, but we're not all that bad by NFL standards. Having a good left tackle is really the foundation of having a good pass blocking line, and we've got that now.

Either way I am sure that mistake won't happen again... Whether it was Fleener's or Justice's error... You know the O-Line coach is playing that footage over and over and over and over....

Yeah, that's an easily correctable error. Way better than if Perry had just overpowered him or something. Miscommunications are something you can fix.

[krunk]

That's exactly what happened. I don't know what the assignments were, but at least Fleener blocked someone. It was a well-designed blitz, which is what Dom Capers does best. But when you have two guys blocking two guys, and one successfully blocks while another doesn't, it's kind of hard to blame the guy who actually blocked (Fleener got hands on both rushers, as a matter of fact) instead of the guy who was doing the Electric Slide and never blocked anyone.

It's hard for Justice to block someone given the way things happened. If you are expecting a rush from the inside(remember they studied film on that blitz combo more than likely) while expecting your tight end to pick up an outside rush, you have to understand that the outside rusher has already built up full momentum and is heading around the corner while you are still looking inside preparing to block the man you are assigned to.

Then all of a sudden the man who is assigned to block that outside rusher decides to pick up your assignment. Once you see that he does that, you look to see where the outside rusher is and you have no way of backing up to get to him because his momentum has taken him around the corner on a B line to your quarterback.

It's a matter of timing and angles. I don't think Justice had much of a chance to pick that outside guy up.

When you freelance and do the jobs of others instead of doing your own job, it might make you look like

a hero or as if you were the one doing all of the work, but when it's all said and done you caused extra

work that did not need to occur in the first place. I think Justice could have done his job if someone else

didn't create extra work that was not necessary and impossible to complete.

[krunk]

Castanzo hasn't either, as evidenced by Peppers, Allen, and Matthews combining for a grand total of 1 sack in 3 games (and on top of that, the stats from last week on Football Outsiders suggest we are much more effective running to the left side as well). They also had us as the 6th best pass blocking team in the NFL, though that may be somewhat skewed by Luck's pocket awareness and mobility. Still, I think our offensive line problems as pass protection goes may be slightly overstated. Sure, we're not where we want to be in that regard, and we're not where we were during most of Manning's tenure, but we're not all that bad by NFL standards. Having a good left tackle is really the foundation of having a good pass blocking line, and we've got that now.

Yeah, that's an easily correctable error. Way better than if Perry had just overpowered him or something. Miscommunications are something you can fix.

We don't have Pro Bowlers at tackle, but they are definitely not scrubs nor dissapointing. I like both of them.

[TKnight24]

EVEN IF you assign him the blame for that play - which is difficult to determine without knowing who was responsible for what on that play - he was otherwise pretty solid. He seems to false start like Diem, but, well, that's par for the course. While I don't think he's the long term answer, he's certainly not so bad that we have to transform Reitz into a tackle to compensate, especially since with Olsen gone we have, like, 1 and a half (the half is Link) guards on the roster not counting Reitz, and 4 and a half tackles.

That's exactly what happened. I don't know what the assignments were, but at least Fleener blocked someone. It was a well-designed blitz, which is what Dom Capers does best. But when you have two guys blocking two guys, and one successfully blocks while another doesn't, it's kind of hard to blame the guy who actually blocked (Fleener got hands on both rushers, as a matter of fact) instead of the guy who was doing the Electric Slide and never blocked anyone.

As Superman said, there's no way for us to know exactly what the assignments were on that play. However, I just watched the play again a couple of times in slow-motion. Fleener saw both Perry and Shields coming. Justice was backing up behind Fleener and appeared to also see both rushers coming. Fleener pushed Perry to force him wide and then picked up Shields. Justice appeared to see all of this and still went after Shields even though Fleener had already moved in the direction to pick up Shields. This allowed Perry to come free. if Justice had continued wide he could have picked up Perry and kept Luck from getting hit. As Superman said, Justice didn't block anyone and he went after Shields even though Fleener was in front of him and he had clear vision to see Fleener simply give Perry the push and then engage Shields.

I don't think that is what happened. What appears to have happened was Fleener had the outside rusher, but he left his man because he was too concerned about the impact of the inside rusher that was running right across his face. It doesn't make any sense to have the tackle pick up a guy who is rushing on the outside of the tight end. Looks like Justice was expecting Fleener to pick up the outside rush. That's what it looks like to me.

Watch the Video guys. When the ball is Snapped, Justice's eyes IMMEDIATELY turn to Perry. Fleener was supposed to block Down on #37. Justice takes Perry outside which leaves a Gap, & Fleener fills the gap by blocking #37.

Due to Fleener bouncing back & forth from Perry to #37, Justice assumes that Fleener has Perry & he goes to block #37. But then Fleener goes to #37 & Justice being 300+ isn't gonna make it back to protect Luck from that Hit.

It's just like when a RB is in the Backfield with a QB. The RB usually takes the person coming from the Inside Gap. That is what Fleener was supposed to do. But hey, everyone makes Mistakes

[PrincetonTiger]

Fleener let Perry go and didn't give the heads up to WJ.

[PrincetonTiger]

interesting video

[krunk]

Watch the Video guys. When the ball is Snapped, Justice's eyes IMMEDIATELY turn to Perry. Fleener was supposed to block Down on #37. Justice takes Perry outside which leaves a Gap, & Fleener fills the gap by blocking #37.

Due to Fleener bouncing back & forth from Perry to #37, Justice assumes that Fleener has Perry & he goes to block #37. But then Fleener goes to #37 & Justice being 300+ isn't gonna make it back to protect Luck from that Hit.

It's just like when a RB is in the Backfield with a QB. The RB usually takes the person coming from the Inside Gap. That is what Fleener was supposed to do. But hey, everyone makes Mistakes

Makes no sense for a tackle playing on the inside of a tight end to block an outside pass rusher.

[TKnight24]

Makes no sense for a tackle playing on the inside of a tight end to block an outside pass rusher.

It doesn't, but that's how it was set up. It's Arians' Offense, never expect "ordinary" things

[jbaron04]

How do you know that? Justice kicked out automatically. There was no inside guy. There were two blitzers coming from the outside defensive left, Perry and Shields. Justice went to take the closer one, Perry, and while Fleener pushed him a little bit, he didn't engage, and immediately went to get Shields, who was coming on a staggered blitz toward the inside. It looked to me like the blitz was designed to get the protection preoccupied with Perry so Shields could come free. It worked even better than that, though, as Perry came free before Shields could even get close. But my problem is that Justice didn't block anyone. His initial steps were toward the outside, as if that was his assignment, and Fleener picked Shields up right away. Justice didn't block anyone.

I think it's hard to tell, given the fact that we don't know what the protection was. But if Justice simply picks Perry up, that's a clean pocket. Fleener had Shields.

i agree with you, its was some mix up on the line but lets be honest thats the point of the blitz to confuse the o line lol

[jimirsaysdog]

It doesn't, but that's how it was set up. It's Arians' Offense, never expect "ordinary" things

unless anyone knows for certain what protection was called no one can say exactly if it was a blown assignment or just poor execution. that's why judging o line play is almost impossible to do without the facts.

[jbaron04]

interesting video

it looked like fleener and justice had a mix up

[PrincetonTiger]

it looked like fleener and justice had a mix up

agreed

[HtownColt]

was it justice fault luck got rocked by perry?

I wouldn't say Justice was to blame for that. The Packers came on a stunt and Fleener started off blocking Perry and when the DB looped inside Justice was right there to pick him up, But when he looped in Fleener disengaged on Perry and ran in front of Justice to pick up the stunting DB leaving Justice to try to get to the outside and pick up Perry who Fleener let free which simply wasnt going to happen. If Fleener wouldve have just stuck with Perry and let the looping DB loop right into Justice the blitz would have been picked up. I chalk that up to miscomunication you have to see that stunt and flip assignments when that loop happens Fleener doesnt and therefore he lets Perry free and tries to pick up the looping DB himself