Reitz

[PrincetonTiger]

I wouldn't say Justice was to blame for that. The Packers came on a stunt and Fleener started off blocking Perry and when the DB looped inside Justice was right there to pick him up, But when he looped in Fleener disengaged on Perry and ran in front of Justice to pick up the stunting DB leaving Justice to try to get to the outside and pick up Perry who Fleener let free which simply wasnt going to happen. If Fleener wouldve have just stuck with Perry and let the looping DB loop right into Justice the blitz would have been picked up. I chalk that up to miscomunication you have to see that stunt and flip assignments when that loop happens Fleener doesnt and therefore he lets Perry free and tries to pick up the looping DB himself

This is how I saw it

[Warhawk]

Watch the Video guys. When the ball is Snapped, Justice's eyes IMMEDIATELY turn to Perry. Fleener was supposed to block Down on #37. Justice takes Perry outside which leaves a Gap, & Fleener fills the gap by blocking #37.

Due to Fleener bouncing back & forth from Perry to #37, Justice assumes that Fleener has Perry & he goes to block #37. But then Fleener goes to #37 & Justice being 300+ isn't gonna make it back to protect Luck from that Hit.

It's just like when a RB is in the Backfield with a QB. The RB usually takes the person coming from the Inside Gap. That is what Fleener was supposed to do. But hey, everyone makes Mistakes

In that case you could potentially blame both of them - Fleener for diverting off his assignment, even if just for a moment, and Justice for trying to cover for what he thought was a mistake by Fleener, and in doing so leaving himself out to dry against Perry. Either of them don't do that, Luck doesn't get his chest cavity rearranged.

[TKnight24]

In that case you could potentially blame both of them - Fleener for diverting off his assignment, even if just for a moment, and Justice for trying to cover for what he thought was a mistake by Fleener, and in doing so leaving himself out to dry against Perry. Either of them don't do that, Luck doesn't get his chest cavity rearranged.

Well, Bottomline we took a W lol

[Jason_]

I wouldn't say Justice was to blame for that. The Packers came on a stunt and Fleener started off blocking Perry and when the DB looped inside Justice was right there to pick him up, But when he looped in Fleener disengaged on Perry and ran in front of Justice to pick up the stunting DB leaving Justice to try to get to the outside and pick up Perry who Fleener let free which simply wasnt going to happen. If Fleener wouldve have just stuck with Perry and let the looping DB loop right into Justice the blitz would have been picked up. I chalk that up to miscomunication you have to see that stunt and flip assignments when that loop happens Fleener doesnt and therefore he lets Perry free and tries to pick up the looping DB himself

Fleener didn't "start off blocking" Perry. He chipped Perry, giving him a push to widen him out to allow Justice to go engage Perry. This is very common for a TE or RB to do to one of the other teams premiere pass rushers. Most teams don't have a TE or RB take on one of the other team's premiere pass rushers one on one.

Fleener let Perry go and didn't give the heads up to WJ.

How would Fleener give the heads up to Justice? He can't exactly turn around and say "hey, I'm gonna take Shields now". Justice needs to watch which guy Fleener actively engages (which Justice had clear vision to see Fleener chip Perry and then go to engage Shields) and then take the other guy, which in this case was Perry.

As others have said, without knowing exactly what the protection was, it's impossible to say which player made the mistake. However, as I said, typically a team does not have a TE take on one of the other team's premiere pass rushers. In this type of situation, I think it's far more plausible that Fleener was correct in chipping Perry to force him out wide to allow Justice to pick him up, and then he (Fleener) went after the blitzing DB.

[HtownColt]

Fleener didn't "start off blocking" Perry. He chipped Perry, giving him a push to widen him out to allow Justice to go engage Perry. This is very common for a TE or RB to do to one of the other teams premiere pass rushers. Most teams don't have a TE or RB take on one of the other team's premiere pass rushers one on one.

Fleener did not chip. chipping is engaging the disengaging and going into a route. Not disengaging and crossing your own linemans face to block another guy coming on a stunt that Justice was prepared to pick up, Fleener was clearly staying in to block on the play so he couldnt had been chipping. simply Fleener didnt see the stunt until late and didnt switch assignments like they should. He stays blocking Perry(who ended up being the outside rusher for the TE to block) And the stunting DB falls right into Justice lap "Bam" blitz is picked up and Luck isn't picking up his mouthpiece off the turf.

[Jason_]

Fleener did not chip. chipping is engaging the disengaging and going into a route. Not disengaging and crossing your own linemans face to block another guy coming on a stunt that Justice was prepared to pick up, Fleener was clearly staying in to block on the play so he couldnt had been chipping. simply Fleener didnt see the stunt until late and didnt switch assignments like they should. He stays blocking Perry(who ended up being the outside rusher for the TE to block) And the stunting DB falls right into Justice lap "Bam" blitz is picked up and Luck isn't picking up his mouthpiece off the turf.

Chipping is not "engaging and then disengaging". Chipping is when a TE or RB gives a push, shove or puts a shoulder to a rusher and then he goes on to either run a route or block another player. I used the term "chip block" because what I understand to be a chip block is basically a partial block. It doesn't always have to involve the guy chipping going out into a route afterwards. Often that will be the case, but also a player can chip one player and then engage another. Unless you know of another term for what I'm describing then please enlighten. However, I have always considered a chip block to basically just be a partial block, meaning he gives a push to the pass rusher to re-route that pass-rusher so that another player, typically an offensive lineman can fully engage that rusher. Fleener never fully engaged Perry. Fleener gave Perry a push to widen Perry's path to the QB and Justice was in perfect position to see this.

And as I said before, more often than not, teams would prefer their OT block the other team's premiere pass rusher as opposed to a blitzing DB. Again, none of us know what the actual assignments were supposed to be, but Justice had clear vision to see Fleener chip Perry and then go after Shields to fully engage Shield, yet Justice still went after Shields, giving Perry a free run to the QB. If our coaches are drawing up blocking schemes that put our TE's against the other team's premiere pass rushers while our OT's go after blitzing DB's, then Luck is in even more trouble than we thought.

[HtownColt]

Chipping is not "engaging and then disengaging". Chipping is when a TE or RB gives a push, shove or puts a shoulder to a rusher and then he goes on to either run a route or block another player. I used the term "chip block" because what I understand to be a chip block is basically a partial block. It doesn't always have to involve the guy chipping going out into a route afterwards. Often that will be the case, but also a player can chip one player and then engage another. Unless you know of another term for what I'm describing then please enlighten. However, I have always considered a chip block to basically just be a partial block, meaning he gives a push to the pass rusher to re-route that pass-rusher so that another player, typically an offensive lineman can fully engage that rusher. Fleener never fully engaged Perry. Fleener gave Perry a push to widen Perry's path to the QB and Justice was in perfect position to see this.

And as I said before, more often than not, teams would prefer their OT block the other team's premiere pass rusher as opposed to a blitzing DB. Again, none of us know what the actual assignments were supposed to be, but Justice had clear vision to see Fleener chip Perry and then go after Shields to fully engage Shield, yet Justice still went after Shields, giving Perry a free run to the QB. If our coaches are drawing up blocking schemes that put our TE's against the other team's premiere pass rushers while our OT's go after blitzing DB's, then Luck is in even more trouble than we thought.

didn't know Nick Perry was a premiere pass rusher. I have yet to see a blocking scheme to pick up a stunt by your TE chipping the outside rusher then crossing your linemans face to pick up a DB that the Lineman is in position to pick up. and if thats the scheme you think they were using (which they wasn't) You get the result you got

[Jason_]

didn't know Nick Perry was a premiere pass rusher. I have yet to see a blocking scheme to pick up a stunt by your TE chipping the outside rusher then crossing your linemans face to pick up a DB that the Lineman is in position to pick up. and if thats the scheme you think they were using (which they wasn't weren't) You get the result you got

1. Perhaps premiere was the wrong word. Primary would have been better. No, Perry is not yet one of the league's premiere pass rushers, but he, along with Clay Matthews, is one of the Packer's primary pass rushers. That's what I mean.

2. Unless you were in the huddle then you have no way of saying one way or another what the individual assignments of each player were in pass protection on that, or any, play.

3. Justice was actually closer to and in better position to engage Perry. That is very clear, imo, in the slow motion replay.

[Superman]

2. Unless you were in the huddle then you have no way of saying one way or another what the individual assignments of each player were in pass protection on that, or any, play.

3. Justice was actually closer to and in better position to engage Perry. That is very clear, imo, in the slow motion replay.

Agreed. And, unlike Fleener, Justice didn't block anyone. Maybe it's not fair to just blame the guy who didn't block anyone, but Fleener at least did something.

At the end of the day, this sometimes happens against a good blitz scheme. Dom Capers is good at doing this, even against experienced protection schemes. It's not the end of the world, but film study ought to get this straightened out moving forward. We'll see similar blitzes against the Jets this week.

[Warhawk]

Regardless, I'm sure the team has a pretty good idea what went wrong on that play (better than us anyway), and I'm sure they'll address it.

Justice had a pretty good day for the most part, so we probably shouldn't give too much weight to this one play.

[GoColts8818]

This makes no sense. Linemen get reps in practice at other positions anyways. If McGlynn could go right in, with no practice, and play center when Satele got hurt (and not miss a beat), why can't Reitz (who was originally worked out as a tight end and tackle in Baltimore and Miami) come in and take over right tackle? I'm only opposed to disrupting chemistry on the line if the formula we have is actually working to begin with. If Reitz doesn't work out at tackle, what's the worst that could happen? Luck gets blasted because of a blown assignme... Oh, wait...that's already happening

The line play has not been so great at any point this season that I would consider it counter-productive to try people at different spots. How many different positions has Linkenbach started at already this year?

Yes because Linkenbach is a back up lineman and not a starter and has played both guard and tackle before. Also they didn't have McGlynn go in and play center because they thought it was a good match up they did it because they didn't have another choice. It's not unlike the Chargers game a few years ago where Jake Scott got moved out to tackle because we were out of lineman so they had to do something strange. It's not something they wanted to do they were forced into it. Also McGlynn wasn't exactly smooth the rest of the day most of his snaps were low in the shotgun and the TV announcers in the Vikings game did a great job pointing that out and showing how it was impacting Luck having to look down for the snaps and take his eyes off the defense and making his reads. So yes he did miss a beat.

Did you ever think that the reason he didn't even make those active rosters and why he made one here is because he wasn't a good tightend or tackle and he is a good guard? Not everyone can do both. My guess would be the Colts aren't playing him at tackle because either they don't want to mess with something they have that is good on the left side or they don't think he can play tackle. I honestly doubt it's because they haven't thought of it. Also Justice has done fine at the tackle poistion thus far this season, not great but not bad either. Our biggest weakness most people felt was the left guard spot with Reitz out. Why would want to move a guy out of his poistion to play another poistion when him coming back can fix the biggest weakness on your line?

Also yes it is counter productive to always be shifting your line around. Lines play well when they have a chance to jell. They don't jell if you are moving people around the line week-to-week. Also if the line isn't playing well why do you want mess up the one side of the line that has proven to do well? All you are doing is making more holes for yourself to fill with no promise that the change you made is going to work.

To your last point Link has started one game at right tackle and one game left guard not because they wanted him out there in both cases it was due to injury and on Sunday it was because of two injuries. Starting someone because you are forced too due to injury isn't exactly the samething as shifting your line around.

[Brooklyn Colt]

God I hope he's back in time for the Jets game..

[Gavin]

Mcglynn is no Guard that is very clear(He is decent at Pulling)but no mauler and cant handle stronger defensive tackles, He was a Right Tackle in college at Pitt also with Reitz in the LG spot that is still a weakness, he is pretty good in pass protection yes but not good in the run game also as far as I know Mcglynn was never tried at Tackle in the NFL

[YOUR GM]

Yes because Linkenbach is a back up lineman and not a starter and has played both guard and tackle before. Also they didn't have McGlynn go in and play center because they thought it was a good match up they did it because they didn't have another choice. It's not unlike the Chargers game a few years ago where Jake Scott got moved out to tackle because we were out of lineman so they had to do something strange. It's not something they wanted to do they were forced into it. Also McGlynn wasn't exactly smooth the rest of the day most of his snaps were low in the shotgun and the TV announcers in the Vikings game did a great job pointing that out and showing how it was impacting Luck having to look down for the snaps and take his eyes off the defense and making his reads. So yes he did miss a beat.

I say they didn't miss a beat because, as a unit, the pass protection actuallly got better when Satele left the game. They had issues snapping the ball initially but so what? They worked it out the next game when Satele got hurt again. Heck, Satele had a gaffe a couple of weeks back and snapped the ball early in the Jags game himself, so... It happens.

And as for your continuity argument, it's hard to make a case for it considering this is a new unit that really hasn't developed any true chemistry to begin with. Someone has been hurt on our line every week since preseason. You're not hurting anything when there is little chemistry to begin with. Justice is slow and not ideal for a rookie QB to have protecting him. Reitz is smart, strong, agile and quick. All things you look for in someone protecting against edge rushers. I think he would fair much better than Justice in pass protection. JMHO

Did you ever think that the reason he didn't even make those active rosters and why he made one here is because he wasn't a good tightend or tackle and he is a good guard? Not everyone can do both.

...Or maybe it was the fact that he was raw in every sense of the word, and had literally no experience playing football at the collegiate or pro levels. He was a basketball player in college. He has grown leaps and bounds since joining the Colts because they saw potential and worked with him. My guess would be that he started out on the interior of the line because that's easier to ease a raw player into, rather than starting him as a tackle right away. He is playing guard right now strictly because of Justice's connection to Grigson. If Justice weren't here, I think Reitz would've been starting at RT by now.

Why would want to move a guy out of his poistion to play another poistion when him coming back can fix the biggest weakness on your line?

To balance out the line. When he comes back at LG, all teams are going to do is scheme to overload the right side of the line (see Rams preseason game) because it's obviously our biggest weakness. Reitz is able to cover for others mistakes and I think he and Mcglynn have enough moxie to work well together.

Also yes it is counter productive to always be shifting your line around. Lines play well when they have a chance to jell. They don't jell if you are moving people around the line week-to-week. Also if the line isn't playing well why do you want mess up the one side of the line that has proven to do well? All you are doing is making more holes for yourself to fill with no promise that the change you made is going to work.

At least 2 of our current starters on the line right now either won't be here or won't be starting next year, is my hunch. We'll essentially be starting from scratch (from a chemistry standpoint) anyways. No harm in giving Reitz a crack at RT when the right side is already a weakness to begin with. Linkenbach has shown himself to be at least serviceable at LG, so even with Reitz not in the lineup, I'm not as worried about the left side as I am the right.

To summarize, there is no chemistry to lose right now because our line has been in flux since the preseason. Luck is getting pressured and hit every game. Moving one player and benching another couldn't bare that much worse of results.

[jimirsaysdog]

Yes because Linkenbach is a back up lineman and not a starter and has played both guard and tackle before. Also they didn't have McGlynn go in and play center because they thought it was a good match up they did it because they didn't have another choice. It's not unlike the Chargers game a few years ago where Jake Scott got moved out to tackle because we were out of lineman so they had to do something strange. It's not something they wanted to do they were forced into it. Also McGlynn wasn't exactly smooth the rest of the day most of his snaps were low in the shotgun and the TV announcers in the Vikings game did a great job pointing that out and showing how it was impacting Luck having to look down for the snaps and take his eyes off the defense and making his reads. So yes he did miss a beat.

Did you ever think that the reason he didn't even make those active rosters and why he made one here is because he wasn't a good tightend or tackle and he is a good guard? Not everyone can do both. My guess would be the Colts aren't playing him at tackle because either they don't want to mess with something they have that is good on the left side or they don't think he can play tackle. I honestly doubt it's because they haven't thought of it. Also Justice has done fine at the tackle poistion thus far this season, not great but not bad either. Our biggest weakness most people felt was the left guard spot with Reitz out. Why would want to move a guy out of his poistion to play another poistion when him coming back can fix the biggest weakness on your line?

Also yes it is counter productive to always be shifting your line around. Lines play well when they have a chance to jell. They don't jell if you are moving people around the line week-to-week. Also if the line isn't playing well why do you want mess up the one side of the line that has proven to do well? All you are doing is making more holes for yourself to fill with no promise that the change you made is going to work.

To your last point Link has started one game at right tackle and one game left guard not because they wanted him out there in both cases it was due to injury and on Sunday it was because of two injuries. Starting someone because you are forced too due to injury isn't exactly the samething as shifting your line around.

GEEZ, a guy has to switch positions in the middle of a game to a spot where he hasn't practiced at in two years and you nitpick ? plus the first series he goes in they run the hurry up offense and he directs the line flawlessly and they score. yes the snaps were low. did you expect perfection ? i would think fans would be thankful there are competent players who are versatile enough to contribute no matter where they play. i don;t think they missed a beat. the offense has been BETTER when someone other than satele has been over the ball.