Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

La'el Collins, G/OT, LSU


Recommended Posts

Mediocre 40 yard dash much? Sounds like Mike McGlynn.

 if want speed then he your guy ? Laken Tomlinson, G, Duke 

Height: 6-3. Weight: 330. 

Projected 40 Time: 5.18. 

He is a strong run-blocker who has to improve his pass protection for the NFL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought I would breakdown a couple examples of why I would not draft La'el Collins at pick 29......Keep in mind this video is of him at Left Tackle and he would be in all probability moved in to play RG in the Colts scheme http://draftbreakdown.com/video/lael-collins-vs-wisconsin-2014/

 

:24 Struggles with getting all the way up to 2nd the level quick enough Does mirror the Linebacker well but struggles at times to hit a moving target

 

2:19 Does not bring his feet and hips with him nor get his hands up fast enough causing him to fall off balance and forward

 

4:13 Slow to fire off the snap and shoot his hands out and gets stood straight up and does not bring his hips forward  through contact again

 

I watched Him vs Ole Miss, Auburn, Wisconsin....All 2014 tape...I came away most impressed with his tape vs Florida.

 

Overall my opinion of watching Collins is he flashes the power to maul a smaller D Lineman off the ball and bury him. Most often when he locks his hands on you its over in pass protection but I believe he will struggle with more savvy D Linemen in the NFL who are far more developed. He does not have the range in my opinion or athleticism I'd like in Guards and does not flash the strength and tenacity enough to me to maul a bigger stronger D Lineman in the NFL, In our scheme our RG is asked to Pull quite a bit, I don't see him having the foot speed to do that consistently, I also think he struggles with double moves do to lack of foot speed...My real issue on him is the dipping of the head and he is slow to shoot his hands out at times causing him to fall forward off balance....Correctable? No doubt....But its an awful habit to break that may never be corrected.......Samson Satele struggles with that very issue and Collins is not as mobile as Satele

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your 40 time begins with a "5", then it doesn't much matter what number comes after it....

 

5.1-5.2 for an OL is still way better than a 5.4

 

Most of the latter end up being out of the league with weight-related issues after a few years, e.g. Max Jean-Gilles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And here's the Collins profile from NFL.com.    They like him.   As does ESPN.

 

Analysis
 
Strengths
 
Thick through chest and displays upper-body strength. Has strong hands and will snatch and control less active defenders. He takes defenders for a ride once he's engaged on the move. Loves to mash and intimidate opponents. Mean player. Can center pass rushers and end their attempt in pass pro. Utilizes length in pass protection and is acclimated to a pro-style offense. Able to run-block and pass-set laterally. Well-schooled and technically proficient. If he gets beat on a play, he comes back even harder on the next snap. Finisher. Can come in and play guard or tackle.
 
Weaknesses
 
Fails to consistently bring hips and feet with him through contact in the running game, causing him to fall forward and lose balance. Hands will start too low in pass pro at times and has to work hard to redirect. Change of direction is slow for a tackle. Relies on lunging rather than foot movement to counter inside moves. Plays high out of stance and loses leverage battle on short-yardage confrontations. Will have to move to right tackle or inside.
 
NFL Comparison  Donald Penn
 
Bottom Line
 
Lumbering brawler who has had a level of success in hyper-competitive SEC West. Lacks athleticism to be a consistent left tackle and will have to move to right tackle or bump inside to guard. Collins plays with a mean streak that is evident in every game and could come in and start right away in a power running game as a guard.
 
-Lance Zierlein
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
And here's the profile from Scouts Inc at ESPN.com.    They like Collins a lot too, but they now view him as the #1 guard rather than a high ranking tackle.    Not that they think he couldn't play tackle, only that they like him more as a guard.
 
 
 
Overall Football Traits

 

Production 1   2011: Played seven games (0 starts) as a true freshman   2012: Started all 13 games at LOG 2013: Played and started 12 games at LOT

 

Height-Weight-Speed 2   A ROT/OG tweener. Height is slightly below average but well within range for NFL OT. Better than average bulk with broad shoulders and a big bubble. Outstanding straight-line speed for size. Has massive hands (11'). Also Appears on tape to have long arms, but his 33 ½-inch arm length measurement in spring does not match up.

 

Durability 2   Did not play versus Furman in 2013 due to a minor undisclosed injury. Led team in 2012 with total snaps played.

 

Intangibles 2   Is well-respected and liked by teammates and coaches. A Person of high character who is mature and handles his business. No off-the-field issues. Was raised in a single-parent home by mother Loyetta Collins.

 

1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal
 
 
Offensive Guard Specific Traits
 

Pass Protection 3   Is light on his feet and usually gets set quickly with a solid base under him (only few times where elite speed got him off-balance in set). Shows strong anchor in pass protection. Has strong hands and does a good job of sustaining block once locked out, but needs more aggressiveness at times in pass protection punch. Gets in trouble when pads rise and he becomes straight-legged. Can be a bit of a waist-bender after initial contact, which leads to him lunging and falling off some blocks.

 

Run Blocking 1   Has massive frame.  Fires off the ball with very good straight-line burst for his size. Has very good lower-body strength and strong hands to drive and steer defenders off the line.  Strong drive-blocker that consistently generates movement.  Can reach second level easily but is not a natural bender and has a difficult time hitting moving targets.

 

Awareness 2   Knows his assignments. Has experience at OT and OG. Studies tape and can transfer what he learns to the field. Shows adequate-to-good awareness in pass protection.

 

Toughness 2   Flashes mean streak and finishes plays through the whistle.

 
1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 
And here's the profile from Scouts Inc at ESPN.com.    They like Collins a lot too, but they now view him as the #1 guard rather than a high ranking tackle.    Not that they think he couldn't play tackle, only that they like him more as a guard.
 
 
 
Overall Football Traits

 

Production 1   2011: Played seven games (0 starts) as a true freshman   2012: Started all 13 games at LOG 2013: Played and started 12 games at LOT

 

Height-Weight-Speed 2   A ROT/OG tweener. Height is slightly below average but well within range for NFL OT. Better than average bulk with broad shoulders and a big bubble. Outstanding straight-line speed for size. Has massive hands (11'). Also Appears on tape to have long arms, but his 33 ½-inch arm length measurement in spring does not match up.

 

Durability 2   Did not play versus Furman in 2013 due to a minor undisclosed injury. Led team in 2012 with total snaps played.

 

Intangibles 2   Is well-respected and liked by teammates and coaches. A Person of high character who is mature and handles his business. No off-the-field issues. Was raised in a single-parent home by mother Loyetta Collins.

 

1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal
 
 
Offensive Guard Specific Traits
 

Pass Protection 3   Is light on his feet and usually gets set quickly with a solid base under him (only few times where elite speed got him off-balance in set). Shows strong anchor in pass protection. Has strong hands and does a good job of sustaining block once locked out, but needs more aggressiveness at times in pass protection punch. Gets in trouble when pads rise and he becomes straight-legged. Can be a bit of a waist-bender after initial contact, which leads to him lunging and falling off some blocks.

 

Run Blocking 1   Has massive frame.  Fires off the ball with very good straight-line burst for his size. Has very good lower-body strength and strong hands to drive and steer defenders off the line.  Strong drive-blocker that consistently generates movement.  Can reach second level easily but is not a natural bender and has a difficult time hitting moving targets.

 

Awareness 2   Knows his assignments. Has experience at OT and OG. Studies tape and can transfer what he learns to the field. Shows adequate-to-good awareness in pass protection.

 

Toughness 2   Flashes mean streak and finishes plays through the whistle.

 
1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal

 

I got him as my #3 best Guard behind Scherff and Clemmings , I'd like to see more of Jamil Douglas, I only saw two tapes of him but he has more athleticism then Collins which I like

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Collins can play RT, and well. His issue would be with counter moves by pass rushers, as he can't change direction and get back to the inside after setting up for an outside rush. He has some technique issues with balance, leverage, and use of hands, but those are coachable. The ability to mirror pass rushers on double moves is probably more of a talent/ability issue than a skill issue. 

 

And if he's moved inside to guard, he'll be a monster. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That balance issue just worries the hell out of me if the Colts draft him, I just like my O Linemen to come with the ability to consistently stay on there own 2 feet, Add that to him likely having to move to RG if he was drafted by the Colts and him having to learn all the different type of stunts and twists at his new position and to me that's just to high of a bust potential to concern myself with if Im Grigson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That balance issue just worries the hell out of me if the Colts draft him, I just like my O Linemen to come with the ability to consistently stay on there own 2 feet, Add that to him likely having to move to RG if he was drafted by the Colts and him having to learn all the different type of stunts and twists at his new position and to me that's just to high of a bust potential to concern myself with if Im Grigson

Grigs wont have to worry because Collins will be gone by the time were on the board. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait?     What?!?

 

Would you like to explain this?     It makes zero sense to me.....

Wouldn't have expected this to need much explanation.  I find it comical that there is analysis about the gradient between slow and slower for guys in the trenches.  If your 40 time is 5 or above, your ability to play the game won't be about speed in the 40, and you'll have to look at much more relevant measures to analyze whether a guy can play or not. 

 

Measuring fat guys and upgrading their stock for being "less slow" in a useless metric doesn't qualify as interesting to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wouldn't have expected this to need much explanation.  I find it comical that there is analysis about the gradient between slow and slower for guys in the trenches.  If your 40 time is 5 or above, your ability to play the game won't be about speed in the 40, and you'll have to look at much more relevant measures to analyze whether a guy can play or not. 

 

Measuring fat guys and upgrading their stock for being "less slow" in a useless metric doesn't qualify as interesting to me.

 

It may not qualifying as interesting to you, but this is a huge head scratcher to me....

 

If you think all players from 5.1 to 5.9 are basically the same,  I think you're way off the mark.

 

I think there's a huge difference in ability, skill,  athleticism,  and how scouts perceive you.

 

Low 5's are good.   Mid 5's borderline,   and high 5's are almost unheard of for players.

 

Somewhere along the way I think you got very, very bad information.

 

I'm only making an issue of this because of my great respect for you.   I think you know football well,  on a number of levels.

 

But this one leaves me caught off guard....    I've never seen anyone make this argument before.   Not even close.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And here's the profile from Scouts Inc at ESPN.com.    They like Collins a lot too, but they now view him as the #1 guard rather than a high ranking tackle.    Not that they think he couldn't play tackle, only that they like him more as a guard.

 

 

 

Overall Football Traits

 

Production 1   2011: Played seven games (0 starts) as a true freshman   2012: Started all 13 games at LOG 2013: Played and started 12 games at LOT

 

Height-Weight-Speed 2   A ROT/OG tweener. Height is slightly below average but well within range for NFL OT. Better than average bulk with broad shoulders and a big bubble. Outstanding straight-line speed for size. Has massive hands (11'). Also Appears on tape to have long arms, but his 33 ½-inch arm length measurement in spring does not match up.

 

Durability 2   Did not play versus Furman in 2013 due to a minor undisclosed injury. Led team in 2012 with total snaps played.

 

Intangibles 2   Is well-respected and liked by teammates and coaches. A Person of high character who is mature and handles his business. No off-the-field issues. Was raised in a single-parent home by mother Loyetta Collins.

 

1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal

 

 

Offensive Guard Specific Traits

 

Pass Protection 3   Is light on his feet and usually gets set quickly with a solid base under him (only few times where elite speed got him off-balance in set). Shows strong anchor in pass protection. Has strong hands and does a good job of sustaining block once locked out, but needs more aggressiveness at times in pass protection punch. Gets in trouble when pads rise and he becomes straight-legged. Can be a bit of a waist-bender after initial contact, which leads to him lunging and falling off some blocks.

 

Run Blocking 1   Has massive frame.  Fires off the ball with very good straight-line burst for his size. Has very good lower-body strength and strong hands to drive and steer defenders off the line.  Strong drive-blocker that consistently generates movement.  Can reach second level easily but is not a natural bender and has a difficult time hitting moving targets.

 

Awareness 2   Knows his assignments. Has experience at OT and OG. Studies tape and can transfer what he learns to the field. Shows adequate-to-good awareness in pass protection.

 

Toughness 2   Flashes mean streak and finishes plays through the whistle.

 

1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal

Sounds like a solid option at RG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may not qualifying as interesting to you, but this is a huge head scratcher to me....

 

If you think all players from 5.1 to 5.9 are basically the same,  I think you're way off the mark.

 

I think there's a huge difference in ability, skill,  athleticism,  and how scouts perceive you.

 

Low 5's are good.   Mid 5's borderline,   and high 5's are almost unheard of for players.

 

Somewhere along the way I think you got very, very bad information.

 

I'm only making an issue of this because of my great respect for you.   I think you know football well,  on a number of levels.

 

But this one leaves me caught off guard....    I've never seen anyone make this argument before.   Not even close.

My ex wife was a 5.1. Wish she was a 5.9

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may not qualifying as interesting to you, but this is a huge head scratcher to me....

 

If you think all players from 5.1 to 5.9 are basically the same,  I think you're way off the mark.

 

I think there's a huge difference in ability, skill,  athleticism,  and how scouts perceive you.

 

Low 5's are good.   Mid 5's borderline,   and high 5's are almost unheard of for players.

 

Somewhere along the way I think you got very, very bad information.

 

I'm only making an issue of this because of my great respect for you.   I think you know football well,  on a number of levels.

 

But this one leaves me caught off guard....    I've never seen anyone make this argument before.   Not even close.

The respect is mutual....and I think you are reading waaay too much into my original comment - taking it way to literally.

 

40 times for fat guys are data points, and NFL guys look at everything, but are we really talking about their level of relevance?  Am I really explaining why I think they aren't very high up the list of relevant attributes that scouts measure? We can go deeper into this, but I really don't think you are suggesting that 40 times for fat guys are all that important. Yes, we agree that they need to be under 5.5, and you look twice if they are above 5.3.   

 

Grigson referenced the fast 40 time (sub 5) of Lance Louis last off-season - but there is a reason that no other Olineman on our team has had the coach or GM reference their 40 time, where as they reference 40 times for their speed guys or the speed guys from other teams frequently.  There are much better measures of transferrable athleticism important for their position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The respect is mutual....and I think you are reading waaay too much into my original comment - taking it way to literally.

 

40 times for fat guys are data points, and NFL guys look at everything, but are we really talking about their level of relevance?  Am I really explaining why I think they aren't very high up the list of relevant attributes that scouts measure? We can go deeper into this, but I really don't think you are suggesting that 40 times for fat guys are all that important. Yes, we agree that they need to be under 5.5, and you look twice if they are above 5.3.   

 

Grigson referenced the fast 40 time (sub 5) of Lance Louis last off-season - but there is a reason that no other Olineman on our team has had the coach or GM reference their 40 time, where as they reference 40 times for their speed guys or the speed guys from other teams frequently.  There are much better measures of transferrable athleticism important for their position.

10 yard split

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OL needing a  "good" 40 means nearly ZERO,   what DOES matter is "quickness off the ball" ...   That is HUGE.    

 

Short burst quickness...     goes a LONG way in being a very good NFL linemen..   along with strength,  intelligence.. 

 

Quick feet get a guy drafted on the OL faster than a 40 time.

 

 

 

It may not qualifying as interesting to you, but this is a huge head scratcher to me....

 

If you think all players from 5.1 to 5.9 are basically the same,  I think you're way off the mark.

 

I think there's a huge difference in ability, skill,  athleticism,  and how scouts perceive you.

 

Low 5's are good.   Mid 5's borderline,   and high 5's are almost unheard of for players.

 

Somewhere along the way I think you got very, very bad information.

 

I'm only making an issue of this because of my great respect for you.   I think you know football well,  on a number of levels.

 

But this one leaves me caught off guard....    I've never seen anyone make this argument before.   Not even close.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you ever checked 40's of NFL G or T prospects?   LOL...     c'mon man..

 

Find a good NFL Guard or Tackle who runs a 5.40 or higher. Reality is most of them are undraftable; those who make it are either out of the league in 1-2 years ala Max Jean-Gilles, or end up as 2nd-3rd string Mike McGlynns and Lance Louises.

 

You don't see Jake Longs, Russell Okungs, and JJ Watts running 5.40+ 40s...but you'll see plenty of Montori Hughes, Kellen Heard, and Terrence Cody running those numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find a good NFL Guard or Tackle who runs a 5.40 or higher. Reality is most of them are undraftable; those who make it are either out of the league in 1-2 years ala Max Jean-Gilles, or end up as 2nd-3rd string Mike McGlynns and Lance Louises.

 

You don't see Jake Longs, Russell Okungs, and JJ Watts running 5.40+ 40s...but you'll see plenty of Montori Hughes, Kellen Heard, and Terrence Cody running those numbers.

Montori ran a 5.2

bOOm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find a good NFL Guard or Tackle who runs a 5.40 or higher. Reality is most of them are undraftable; those who make it are either out of the league in 1-2 years ala Max Jean-Gilles, or end up as 2nd-3rd string Mike McGlynns and Lance Louises.

 

You don't see Jake Longs, Russell Okungs, and JJ Watts running 5.40+ 40s...but you'll see plenty of Montori Hughes, Kellen Heard, and Terrence Cody running those numbers.

Jack Mewhort ran a 5.37.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find a good NFL Guard or Tackle who runs a 5.40 or higher. Reality is most of them are undraftable; those who make it are either out of the league in 1-2 years ala Max Jean-Gilles, or end up as 2nd-3rd string Mike McGlynns and Lance Louises.

 

You don't see Jake Longs, Russell Okungs, and JJ Watts running 5.40+ 40s...but you'll see plenty of Montori Hughes, Kellen Heard, and Terrence Cody running those numbers.

Joe Barksdale ran a 5.38

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Find a good NFL Guard or Tackle who runs a 5.40 or higher. Reality is most of them are undraftable; those who make it are either out of the league in 1-2 years ala Max Jean-Gilles, or end up as 2nd-3rd string Mike McGlynns and Lance Louises.

 

You don't see Jake Longs, Russell Okungs, and JJ Watts running 5.40+ 40s...but you'll see plenty of Montori Hughes, Kellen Heard, and Terrence Cody running those numbers.

 

The best guard in the draft two years ago -- Chance Warmack from Alabama -- I think ran around 5.55.

 

In general terms,  I agree with you.    But there are exceptions to every rule....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are talking 40 times for O Linemen.......For O Linemen....Unless you plan one sending one out wide on a go route (I highly suggest you should not do that if ever given the chance) then its very very irrelevant......Its not rocket science what your looking for in that 40 in an O Lineman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are talking 40 times for O Linemen.......For O Linemen....Unless you plan one sending one out wide on a go route (I highly suggest you should not do that if ever given the chance) then its very very irrelevant......Its not rocket science what your looking for in that 40 in an O Lineman

 

There's a strong correlation between speed (40 yard time) and agility, and power.

 

Dontari Poe ran below a 5.00, but not Terrance Cody.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a strong correlation between speed (40 yard time) and agility, and power.

 

Dontari Poe ran below a 5.00, but not Terrance Cody.

All I want to know is what the O Linemans 10 yard split is, D Linemen are different. They are asked to go further then O Linemen generally, Dontari Poe is an athletic freak of nature for his size. Khaled Holmes ran a 5.29 at his Pro Day and his athleticism and ability to get to the second level was easy to see on film at USC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • One of the great things the NFL does is getting people to believe they aren’t rich.   The league made 17 billion dollars in 2021 in revenue.  The average NFL team is worth 5.1 billion dollars.  These guys aren’t broke or strapped for cash.  They can afford these things.     For what it’s worth Holder is reporting that the Colts made the decision not to go after Sneed and then gave that money to all the guys they re-signed last week and had they gone after Sneed it would have been as the expense of some of those guys, specifically Kenny Moore and perhaps Grover Stewartt which tracks with Kenny at least being the last of the group to re-sign.  Physical money wasn’t the issue.  The Colts simply made a choice.  
    • Who has the best RAS score?
    • Frankly the whole Grigson era turned me off of making all the bold moves people want.  He would and they almost always blew up in the Colts faces.  He was saved by the fact he had Andrew Luck and he was just too good to be bad.  Ironically I think if Ballard had had Andrew Luck for his whole time as GM we would be looking at another golden era of Colts football and it would be have been interesting to note both came with the philosophy of build through the draft and reward your own.  Oh well if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we’d all have a Merry Christmas.
    • In 2015 the Colts were considered winners of free agency. Granted there were a few good signings, but we haven't been the same since. Ever since then, I've been completely fine with not signing free agents. 😅
    • Feels like a good time to issue a reminder.  Two years ago, J’Ville spent a fortune in FA.   That was the year they surprised the NFL giving the little WR, Kirk 4/72 which had incentives into the $80’s.   And J’Ville went on to have a good season.    Many here showered the Jaguars with applause and wondered why can’t the Colts do that?!   But here’s what they forget….   In the 10 years BEFORE that one, no team spent more in FA than the Jaguars.   $1.4 BILLION dollars.  That’s billion with a B.  And I think they had one post season appearance to show for it.  So most years Jacksonville “won” free agency and they had almost nothing to show for it.    So when @GoColts8818 says the “winner” of FA typically doesn’t have a very good season, he is correct.  It was his comment that triggered my memory about Jacksonville’s lost decade.  Thanks, GC! 
  • Members

    • GoColts8818

      GoColts8818 16,839

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • CS Coltsfan

      CS Coltsfan 54

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • coltsfanej

      coltsfanej 609

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Robert Johnson

      Robert Johnson 206

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Dobbinblitz

      Dobbinblitz 1,153

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Gigc

      Gigc 564

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • PRnum1

      PRnum1 2,935

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • C_Lew

      C_Lew 176

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Jumpman

      Jumpman 0

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • NFLfan

      NFLfan 16,965

      Moderators
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...