running the ball vs letting luck loose

[CR91]

watching our line dominant their line was a breathe of fresh air especially watching t-rich shut up a few of his critics, however it seems like we're not really using our offensives full potential. you have two monsters at wr in nicks and moncrief and you cant get them the ball? two play-making TEs and they get one catch between them? have we seen a bomb to TY yet this season? this is a top 5 offense in the making and we need to let it loose

[Valpo2004]

If we can run the ball effectively I would prefer to just run the ball.  

 

We've made several attempts at long bombs to Hilton but every time he was covered really well.  He just has not gotten open deep yet.  

 

I don't know why people keep bringing up the long bomb to TY. . . we tried it at least 3 times on Monday and it failed each time.  

[BlueShoe]

watching our line dominant their line was a breathe of fresh air especially watching t-rich shut up a few of his critics, however it seems like we're not really using our offensives full potential. you have two monsters at wr in nicks and moncrief and you cant get them the ball? two play-making TEs and they get one catch between them? have we seen a bomb to TY yet this season? this is a top 5 offense in the making and we need to let it loose

 

i believe we just have to find the right balance and mix it up. Preferably we take what the defense gives us.  

[CR91]

If we can run the ball effectively I would prefer to just run the ball.  

 

We've made several attempts at long bombs to Hilton but every time he was covered really well.  He just has not gotten open deep yet.  

 

I don't know why people keep bringing up the long bomb to TY. . . we tried it at least 3 times on Monday and it failed each time.  

 

3? i can only remember one

[ProblChld32]

watching our line dominant their line was a breathe of fresh air especially watching t-rich shut up a few of his critics, however it seems like we're not really using our offensives full potential. you have two monsters at wr in nicks and moncrief and you cant get them the ball? two play-making TEs and they get one catch between them? have we seen a bomb to TY yet this season? this is a top 5 offense in the making and we need to let it loose

 

I agree it was nice to see us actually pound the rock successfully. But the receiving talent is Endless and we arent taking advantage of our Receivers and Tight Ends. i want to see more of the arial assault.

[Valpo2004]

3? i can only remember one

 

I remember several going his way, each time they where overthrows because Fletcher had really good coverage.  

 

The reality of it is that he isn't getting open deep.  

 

I don't know if that's just sort of how it goes, it's not like he was open deep in every game last year, sometimes he was sometimes he wasn't.  Or it could be that defensive coordinators have game planned around preventing him from going deep because of what he's done previously.

 

I remember watching the Denver game and they told us that Denver's DC said he gameplan was "Keep TY Hilton in front of you"

[Coaching sux]

If we ran the ball when we were suppose to and not when everybody in the stadium knew we wre going to we would have won the game easily

[Jason_]

If we ran the ball when we were suppose to and not when everybody in the stadium knew we wre going to we would have won the game easily

Huh?

[Coaching sux]

Huh?

All the times we ran the ball everybody knew they were going to run the ball. Hamilton did not fool anybody with his play calling. every time he was expected to run he did. Everybody knew in stadium could have predicted Hamilton's play calling

[Stephen]

We aren't stretching the field enough. We need a long bomb to nicks or moncrief if hilton is covered. We need both the passing game and running game to be good.

[Jason_]

All the times we ran the ball everybody knew they were going to run the ball. Hamilton did not fool anybody with his play calling. every time he was expected to run he did. Everybody knew in stadium could have predicted Hamilton's play calling

 

And Trent averaged 3.8 while Bradshaw averaged 5.4 yards per carry.  So I'm not seeing the problem.  Who cares if the opposition knew we were going to run or not...the run game worked.  

[Coaching sux]

And Trent averaged 3.8 while Bradshaw averaged 5.4 yards per carry.  So I'm not seeing the problem.  Who cares if the opposition knew we were going to run or not...the run game worked.  

Because as you saw later in the game it was like Philly was in the huddle they started to stack the line not use a S and the result was? Trent would get hit in the backfield for a 2yard loss on 3rd and 1

[Coaching sux]

We aren't stretching the field enough. We need a long bomb to nicks or moncrief if hilton is covered. We need both the passing game and running game to be good.

That would make sense and might catch the D off guard but doing that does not seem to be in Hamilton's play book. He rather just do what is expected and hope for the best

[Andrew Luck fan club]

They sure move down the field when Luck gets in a rhythm. Pep sure makes it difficult to  get into a rhythm,

[BlueShoe]

We aren't stretching the field enough. We need a long bomb to nicks or moncrief if hilton is covered. We need both the passing game and running game to be good.

 

Actually we are stretching the field. We are just stretching it more horizontally than vertically. It is opening up running lanes though. 

[BlueShoe]

And Trent averaged 3.8 while Bradshaw averaged 5.4 yards per carry.  So I'm not seeing the problem.  Who cares if the opposition knew we were going to run or not...the run game worked.  

 

Yep.

 

And our offensive philosophy is not that much different from the Eagles. People will be shocked to read that statement. Philly runs a lot of 12 personnel and they stretch the field horizontally. The main differences are that Philly speeds up the tempo and calls more designed passing plays to backs. 

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Manning isn't here anymore so the brass are taking the Colts away from finesse

football and instilling more of a smashmouth system. I think there should be a little

more balance in the air and ground attack though.

[ricker182]

Manning isn't here anymore so the brass are taking the Colts away from finesse

football and instilling more of a smashmouth system. I think there should be a little

more balance in the air and ground attack though.

I still think we need a veteran offensive mind for Luck to learn from like how Manning had Moore.

*cough cough* Norv Turner *cough cough *

[GwinnettColt]

We can get Jon Kitna (now Jon Kitna, not 12 years ago Jon Kitna) to throw short passes and hand off to Richardson and Bradshaw.

 

You don't draft Andrew Luck and then use him the way Pep does.  Sure, there's a place for the run, short passes, etc.  but relying way too much on the run isn't the way to go here.  

 

You don't use a stallion to pull a vegetable cart.  

[GOLFoholic]

Does our O line have a "tell"??

Rewatching the Eagles game, 90+% of the time the linemen put their hand on the ground it was a run. Every time they set up with their elbows on their thighs it was a pass. The few times it switched was when Luck yelled " kill" which switched the play opposite, but was too late for the line to switch. The exception on the pass look was when pulling a guard for a run.

Thoughts?

[chad72]

The Eagles were bent on not getting beat deep. So, the Colts' best bet was hit some 15-20 yarders off play action. That is the range I was disappointed we did not hit enough targets. I am not as worried about the 30-40+ yard bombs, would have loved to see some 20 yarders in the seams with the TEs though.

 

TEs were heavily underutilized, IMO. So much for Pep and Chudzinski loving TEs. If you believe your TEs are playmakers, use them, please!!!

[GOLFoholic]

Does our O line have a "tell"??

Rewatching the Eagles game, 90+% of the time the linemen put their hand on the ground it was a run. Every time they set up with their elbows on their thighs it was a pass. The few times it switched was when Luck yelled " kill" which switched the play opposite, but was too late for the line to switch. The exception on the pass look was when pulling a guard for a run.

Thoughts?

Another question....new poster, so I had to bury the above question into a somewhat non related topic just so I can get enough responses to start a new post myself. Why?

[relishfunk]

I am starting to be convinced that this coaching staff would rather prove that we have a run game than win the game...

[NDcolt]

Problem I have is with game on the line & we dominated the Eagles with the run they sold out on the run & killed us for a 3 & out. WAY to predictable & chip knew this that what was so frustrating. I don't care if Bradshaw was in there we weren't going to be successful period. Just terrible play calling by coaching staff! Screw this run game & didn't it cost us games last yr? When is this coaching staff gonna get it they don't have Joe Flacco or Big Ben they have Andrew LUCK!

[Coaching sux]

We can get Jon Kitna (now Jon Kitna, not 12 years ago Jon Kitna) to throw short passes and hand off to Richardson and Bradshaw.

 

You don't draft Andrew Luck and then use him the way Pep does.  Sure, there's a place for the run, short passes, etc.  but relying way too much on the run isn't the way to go here.  

 

You don't use a stallion to pull a vegetable cart.  

Pep uses Luck the same way he did at Stanford. Calling the same garbage plays in the NFL as he did at Stanford

[akcolt]

The Eagles were bent on not getting beat deep. So, the Colts' best bet was hit some 15-20 yarders off play action. That is the range I was disappointed we did not hit enough targets. I am not as worried about the 30-40+ yard bombs, would have loved to see some 20 yarders in the seams with the TEs though.

 

TEs were heavily underutilized, IMO. So much for Pep and Chudzinski loving TEs. If you believe your TEs are playmakers, use them, please!

 

Fleener is very overrated by this board IMO I'd love to see Allen used more but keep Fleener on the bench hell don't dress him give me Doyle in short yardage and 3 wr's in base.

 

Unless he is wide open Fleener isn't catching the ball doesn't fight for it in traffic and he couldn't block my sister.

[thedude]

watching our line dominant their line was a breathe of fresh air especially watching t-rich shut up a few of his critics, however it seems like we're not really using our offensives full potential. you have two monsters at wr in nicks and moncrief and you cant get them the ball? two play-making TEs and they get one catch between them? have we seen a bomb to TY yet this season? this is a top 5 offense in the making and we need to let it loose

That's all fine and good, but if an offense is one dimensional, it won't be a top 5, or even top 15 offense very long.

[krunk]

We can get Jon Kitna (now Jon Kitna, not 12 years ago Jon Kitna) to throw short passes and hand off to Richardson and Bradshaw.

 

You don't draft Andrew Luck and then use him the way Pep does.  Sure, there's a place for the run, short passes, etc.  but relying way too much on the run isn't the way to go here.  

 

You don't use a stallion to pull a vegetable cart.  

 

 

The stallion(luck) was used as a stallion in the Denver game and the result was not ideal either. Luck is not a true stallion in the passing game yet anyway, and neither would Russel Wilson or any of these other guys who people say are better than Luck if they didn't have running games to keep them from throwing 40 to 60 times a game.  This is a young quarterback in his 3rd year who is still refining his execution against NFL level defenses.  I don't think it's ideal for him to chunk the ball all the time so that the team is forced into come back situations regularly.  It's imperative for him to have a good solid ground game to balance the passing attack.  Denver is seeing the value in this as well, that's why you are seeing them run the ball more.  Even though they have the ultimate stallion in Peyton Manning.

 

I know a lot of people may not have liked all the running we did against Philly, but it was the best way to handle keeping that high volume offense off the field, while giving our no pass rush defense some time to rest.  If Luck had to match those guys score for score via an aerial attack I believe we would have lost by a bigger margin because there would have been more 3 and out drives.  And as a result of this, Phillys offense would have had more opportunities to put up quick scores and tire our defense out.

[krunk]

Pep uses Luck the same way he did at Stanford. Calling the same garbage plays in the NFL as he did at Stanford

 

 

They scored 40 plus points per game at Stanford.  Got a problem with that?

[Gavin]

Football is not about 'turning a player loose" or stuffing it down an opposing teams throat with the run, Its about exposing your players strengths and creating mismatches off of them while also trying to confuse the defense

[akcolt]

If we can run the ball effectively I would prefer to just run the ball.  

 

We've made several attempts at long bombs to Hilton but every time he was covered really well.  He just has not gotten open deep yet.  

 

I don't know why people keep bringing up the long bomb to TY. . . we tried it at least 3 times on Monday and it failed each time.  

Unless you are counting 15 yard outs as long pass attempts we ran one long pass play to Hilton which wasn't even off of play action as well as we were running the ball and he was held or it would have been 6.

 

I have watched the game twice. The reason people keep bringing up the long ball is you take the top of the defense by at least taking shots down the field. We threw one ball that travel more than 20 yards in the air from the line of scrimmage that I counted.

 

The receivers are covered on the intermediate/short routes  because Pep never made them respect the fact we could push the ball down the field the entire game so they had safety help all night....take the top off.

 

We had some great opportunities too after a Trent run of 8 we had it second and 2 at the 48 play fake take a shot that is the perfect time. 

[krunk]

The thing I hate the most about people complaining towards the running game is it was WORKING!  I can see if we were standing at where we stood last year with zero ability to run.  I'm just glad that it was working, and both backs executed the plays very good with the exception of Trichs fumbles. I really enjoyed what I saw and it may get even better if the coaches decided to turn it into a 3 headed monster with Bradshaw, Richardson, and sprinkling in Boom Herron.  It could become even more deadly if we add some more Spider 2 Y Banana, play action bootlegs, and other easy short throws for first downs coming off those runs.

 

Yes I'd like to see the passing game evolve some, but that will happen with continued success in the running game and us finding the personnel packages that work best for us to take the deep shots.

[3nk1du]

The thing I hate the most about people complaining towards the running game is it was WORKING!  I can see if we were standing at where we stood last year with zero ability to run.  I'm just glad that it was working, and both backs executed the plays very good with the exception of Trichs fumbles. I really enjoyed what I saw and it may get even better if the coaches decided to turn it into a 3 headed monster with Bradshaw, Richardson, and sprinkling in Boom Herron.  It could become even more deadly if we add some more Spider 2 Y Banana, play action bootlegs, and other easy short throws for first downs coming off those runs.

 

Yes I'd like to see the passing game evolve some, but that will happen with continued success in the running game and us finding the personnel packages that work best for us to take the deep shots.

 

Yeah it's working but Phily isn't a great defense actually they preferred to send a extra man on the coverage and avoid big plays(they did), and this kind of game isn't gonna work with Cincinnati, Baltimore, Cleveland, New England, Houston. They have  good defenses and if Pep try to run all the time vs them he is gonna have a really bad season. 

 

I read what you say before about Stanford scoring 40+ each game but also you are forgeting  they have/had an elite Defense , elite OL and David Shaw(he is an exceptional coach), we have a average Defense(cause the S and no passrush), and our OL is IMO above average and promising with young core but inexperienced.

[krunk]

Yeah it's working but Phily isn't a great defense actually they preferred to send a extra man on the coverage and avoid big plays(they did), and this kind of game isn't gonna work with Cincinnati, Baltimore, Cleveland, New England, Houston. They have  good defenses and if Pep try to run all the time vs them he is gonna have a really bad season. 

 

I read what you say before about Stanford scoring 40+ each game but also you are forgeting  they have/had an elite Defense , elite OL and David Shaw(he is an exceptional coach), we have a average Defense(cause the S and no passrush), and our OL is IMO above average and promising with young core but inexperienced.

 

 

The goal is to take advantage of what is there.  Pep or any other coordinator would be a fool to continuously run the ball IF it is not working. If we played any of those teams and the run is not working then you have to seek another course to get things done.  However I certainly do advocate running the ball a lot against all of them IF it is working out best for us to do so in that time frame. Pep and Pagano were really heavy with the run vs. Philly because we were able to do so, and also because it was a tool to keep their offense off the field. I don't think they just ran all day long just to please their own egos. 

 

In regards to the Stanford comments I made. It's good that you can point out the differences in the two, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest we can duplicate the model and that it's a sound model. We've gotten better with the execution and our personnel on both sides of the ball. However as they say "Rome wasn't built in one day". People have to show more patience with the building process.  We can get those same type of players on this level as well.  We've got a good nucleus to do some damage right now.

[SilentHill]

I believe in scoring points and lots of them, whatever brings that.

[Coaching sux]

They scored 40 plus points per game at Stanford.  Got a problem with that?

and how many BCS title games did that offence get them to?

[Coaching sux]

The goal is to take advantage of what is there.  Pep or any other coordinator would be a fool to continuously run the ball IF it is not working. If we played any of those teams and the run is not working then you have to seek another course to get things done.  However I certainly do advocate running the ball a lot against all of them IF it is working out best for us to do so in that time frame. Pep and Pagano were really heavy with the run vs. Philly because we were able to do so, and also because it was a tool to keep their offense off the field. I don't think they just ran all day long just to please their own egos. 

 

In regards to the Stanford comments I made. It's good that you can point out the differences in the two, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest we can duplicate the model and that it's a sound model. We've gotten better with the execution and our personnel on both sides of the ball. However as they say "Rome wasn't built in one day". People have to show more patience with the building process.  We can get those same type of players on this level as well.  We've got a good nucleus to do some damage right now.

How arE we getting better on both sides of the ball? The D  has stunk for years and they try to keep patching it up with cast offs from other teams instead of drafting lb's and db's and let them get some experience

[krunk]

and how many BCS title games did that offence get them to?

 

There is only 1 team that wins the BCS every year.  Does that mean every other offensive system is "garbage"?

Winning a BCS title or any type of championship is a team effort, so you can not merely blame the offense if it

did not happen.   

[Coaching sux]

The goal is to take advantage of what is there.  Pep or any other coordinator would be a fool to continuously run the ball IF it is not working. If we played any of those teams and the run is not working then you have to seek another course to get things done.  However I certainly do advocate running the ball a lot against all of them IF it is working out best for us to do so in that time frame. Pep and Pagano were really heavy with the run vs. Philly because we were able to do so, and also because it was a tool to keep their offense off the field. I don't think they just ran all day long just to please their own egos. 

 

In regards to the Stanford comments I made. It's good that you can point out the differences in the two, but there is more than enough evidence to suggest we can duplicate the model and that it's a sound model. We've gotten better with the execution and our personnel on both sides of the ball. However as they say "Rome wasn't built in one day". People have to show more patience with the building process.  We can get those same type of players on this level as well.  We've got a good nucleus to do some damage right now.

has nothing to do with coordinator. Any OC but Hamilton would have run the ball and kicked the FG to put them up by 10

[Coaching sux]

There is only 1 team that wins the BCS every year.  Does that mean every other offensive system is "garbage"?

Winning a BCS title or any type of championship is a team effort, so you can not merely blame the offense if it

did not happen.   

Ya but Bama seemed to get there every year with a qb  (McCarron) that could not even hold Luck's jock. But he had a good system and smart coaches that played to the few strengths that he has