Thoughts on Freeney

[coltnorth]

I keep reading posts and articles on Freeney that state he probably wont be a colt this year and there is no way he gets resigned here next year. I am going on record to say I think Dwight will be a colt for life. He stated in an interview a while ago that he wants to retire a colt. He felt players should stay with the franchises that toook a chance and drafted them. He even called out Lebron for leaving Clevland. I don't think he is going to leave for the biggest contract. I think he will take a reasonable contract here that pays him what he is worth. What the number will be will be determined by his play this season. I think he will be effective this year in the new system and will quiet all the fans who have written him off.

That being said, unless Hughes emerges as a real player, I think they still draft an OLB in one of the first two rounds as it usually takes time to adjust.

[Nobody]

He doesn't like the 3-4. If he doesn't dominate as an OLB, he's gone.

[Superman]

I don't doubt that he wants to stay. The question, in my mind, is more about how we're paying him this season than it is about whether he wants to stay. Because if we pay him a $14 million base salary for one year, then double-down and pay him a signing bonus next year, that's a waste of money. If we want to keep him long-term, we need to lock him down now.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't doubt that he wants to stay. The question, in my mind, is more about how we're paying him this season than it is about whether he wants to stay. Because if we pay him a $14 million base salary for one year, then double-down and pay him a signing bonus next year, that's a waste of money. If we want to keep him long-term, we need to lock him down now.

Agreed

I hope between now and training camp they can form a good enough opinion on whether he needs to be extended or released. Once he's active for week 1, his contract is guaranteed.

If he's a stud in a 3-4, then lock him and use a portion of that 14 million as a signing bonus. If he's lost in training camp then try to move him even if it's for a late round draft pick. If he's somewhere in between, then that is where the gamble/14-19 million dollar questions start arising.

[ztboiler]

I don't doubt that he wants to stay. The question, in my mind, is more about how we're paying him this season than it is about whether he wants to stay. Because if we pay him a $14 million base salary for one year, then double-down and pay him a signing bonus next year, that's a waste of money. If we want to keep him long-term, we need to lock him down now.

Is it really a waste of money, though, if that $14 Mill doesn't have another immediate investment target this year, while buying the team some time to verify that the fit is good and worth investing in for a few more years? Freeney's current contract situation is a blessing not a curse in my book. Plus, another year of mileage makes his market value lower.

[subvet]

Of course he wants to stay, but wasn't there another player recently that said he wanted to retire a Colt?

What was his name, can't remember but surely he wasn't more important than Dwight Freeney......

[Fx Stryker]

Of course he wants to stay, but wasn't there another player recently that said he wanted to retire a Colt?

What was his name, can't remember but surely he wasn't more important than Dwight Freeney......

My keyboard only has the M-A-N-I-G keys, so it has to be that Manning guy.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Is it really a waste of money, though, if that $14 Mill doesn't have another immediate investment target this year, while buying the team some time to verify that the fit is good and worth investing in for a few more years? Freeney's current contract situation is a blessing not a curse in my book. Plus, another year of mileage makes his market value lower.

The thing about the money is that if he's traded/cut prior to week 1, that 14 million could be used this season, or if it isn't used it can be rolled into the future.

In the previous CBA, if the Cap was 120, and the team used 110, then they lost 10 million. So that key change could benefit the team if the move is made prior to week 1.

As I said in my original post and as Superman pointed out as well, if he plays this season out at the 19 million cap hit and 14 million base salary, that money is gone.

If they turnaround in the off season and offer him a new deal, then that means an additional signing bonus.

If he is a stud in the 3-4, then take a portion of that 14 million and make it a part of a 20 million signing bonus and extended him 3-4 years. It would lower his cap hit this season and extend his services.

The franchise tag isn't exactly an option because he's on the books at 19 million, and 120% of that would be in the 22-23 range. That would be beyond foolish.

[FightLikeSin]

I don't see why he can't be good in a 3-4. It's similar to what he was doing before except now he gets to rush wherever he wants to instead of being lined up against the LT.

$14 mil for Freeney who is productive = $ well spent in my opinion. If he's not, then we could use the money elsewhere. If they take that $14 mil and spend it on the Justin King's and Cassius Vaughns' of the world...not money well spent in my opinion.

In conclusion, if you are getting rid of Freeney to free up $, who are you going to get, or who are you going to resign that brings as much value as Freeney given the money you've set aside?

[ColtsPRIDE11]

In conclusion, if you are getting rid of Freeney to free up $, who are you going to get, or who are you going to resign that brings as much value as Freeney given the money you've set aside?

This to me is the key question that needs an answer. We can talk all day about the cap hit and the possibility of the 3-4 not being a good fit for Freeney, but if we trade him out who are we bringing in to replace him?

[coltnorth]

There is a huge difference between Manning and Freeney contracts. If they kept Manning with his contract, they would have been locked in for 4 more years and the way the contract was set up, if they released him later the cap hit would have been enormous. Freeney has one season to prove himself. I don't think he has to be dominant. He has to be good. Worthy of being a stater and then be paid accordingly. He won't be released or traded prior to the season or during the season. If he doesn't fit as an OLB at all, they will use him as a 4-3 DE in the four man fronts. I see no reason why he wont have success.

To say that it doesn't matter if he wants to stay is foolish. If he truly means what he said, he will take a reasonable offer from the colts. He wont demand top of the league money just like Wayne. If he plays well and wants to be a colt, he will be. No comparison to the Manning situation

[bahhummbug]

I keep reading posts and articles on Freeney that state he probably wont be a colt this year and there is no way he gets resigned here next year. I am going on record to say I think Dwight will be a colt for life. He stated in an interview a while ago that he wants to retire a colt. He felt players should stay with the franchises that toook a chance and drafted them. He even called out Lebron for leaving Clevland. I don't think he is going to leave for the biggest contract. I think he will take a reasonable contract here that pays him what he is worth. What the number will be will be determined by his play this season. I think he will be effective this year in the new system and will quiet all the fans who have written him off.

That being said, unless Hughes emerges as a real player, I think they still draft an OLB in one of the first two rounds as it usually takes time to adjust.

Manning wanted to retire a Colt is Freeney larger than Manning?It all depends on his play,to me Iam all for dropping him now.I have said it for months sign a couple CBs and a OLB and more for his 14 mill experiment not worth it.

[ztboiler]

The thing about the money is that if he's traded/cut prior to week 1, that 14 million could be used this season, or if it isn't used it can be rolled into the future.

In the previous CBA, if the Cap was 120, and the team used 110, then they lost 10 million. So that key change could benefit the team if the move is made prior to week 1.

As I said in my original post and as Superman pointed out as well, if he plays this season out at the 19 million cap hit and 14 million base salary, that money is gone.

If they turnaround in the off season and offer him a new deal, then that means an additional signing bonus.

If he is a stud in the 3-4, then take a portion of that 14 million and make it a part of a 20 million signing bonus and extended him 3-4 years. It would lower his cap hit this season and extend his services.

The franchise tag isn't exactly an option because he's on the books at 19 million, and 120% of that would be in the 22-23 range. That would be beyond foolish.

Good point. I forgot about the rollover money, so it isn't as simple as I was trying to make it. I still like the position we are in of having time on our side today, but the point you and Sup make about wasted money is compelling in this light.

[oldunclemark]

Dwight wants to stay....but he doesn't want to take a cut in pay

..and unless we get awfully good awfully fast...and are playoff contenders..

he's playing his final year with us...at his salary

[Superman]

Is it really a waste of money, though, if that $14 Mill doesn't have another immediate investment target this year, while buying the team some time to verify that the fit is good and worth investing in for a few more years? Freeney's current contract situation is a blessing not a curse in my book. Plus, another year of mileage makes his market value lower.

If we pay him $14 million this year, and then turn around and give him another double-digit signing bonus next year, yes, that's a waste of money.

[Superman]

Of course he wants to stay, but wasn't there another player recently that said he wanted to retire a Colt?

What was his name, can't remember but surely he wasn't more important than Dwight Freeney......

This isn't apples and oranges, it's apples and Worcestershire sauce.

[Gavin]

We are going to keep him this year and probably for what he is making now so really nothing much to discuss anymore except how he will be used in the new scheme

[Superman]

This to me is the key question that needs an answer. We can talk all day about the cap hit and the possibility of the 3-4 not being a good fit for Freeney, but if we trade him out who are we bringing in to replace him?

I'm not talking about cap space, I'm talking about real dollars. Even if you don't use the cap space, you can allocate that money for future signing bonuses, and that might be a big deal going into next year when we have a ton of cap space and must use the majority of it.

If you can avoid paying Freeney a $14 million base salary + a $10 million signing bonus next season, you're helping your cap this season (whether you use the cap space or not is irrelevant, plus you can roll unused cap space into next season), and you're helping your cash situation next offseason by saving real dollars. As a matter of fact, whether Freeney is a good fit in the new defense or not, offering him a new contract with the $14 million as a signing bonus is kind of a no-risk proposition. It's the same $14 million either way, and if you had to, you could trade or release him without significant cap ramifications moving forward.

[ztboiler]

If we pay him $14 million this year, and then turn around and give him another double-digit signing bonus next year, yes, that's a waste of money.

You are 100% correct. I forgot about the cap rollover for unused dough, and in that light it would be terribly inefficient.

[dgambill]

I think he is staying. One no one can take on his contract unless he does some restructuring and I think that is a reach. Two we would get probably a 3rd round compensatory pick for him. Three while we would get some extra cap space next year we aren't hurting and that probably isn't a big priority for this team. And finally I just don't think we can afford to let him go at this point. There is really no one out there to replace him with and we would have a glaring hole all season at OLB.

I think at this point we just have to eat it and hope he will give us a home town discount next year like Reggie did if he is still able to play at a high level. Otherwise we let him walk and we get our high compensatory pick out of him at least. (However if we go on a signing spree next year we may not even get that since what we sign maybe more valuable than what we lose)

[Superman]

I think he is staying. One no one can take on his contract unless he does some restructuring and I think that is a reach. Two we would get probably a 3rd round compensatory pick for him. Three while we would get some extra cap space next year we aren't hurting and that probably isn't a big priority for this team. And finally I just don't think we can afford to let him go at this point. There is really no one out there to replace him with and we would have a glaring hole all season at OLB.

I think at this point we just have to eat it and hope he will give us a home town discount next year like Reggie did if he is still able to play at a high level. Otherwise we let him walk and we get our high compensatory pick out of him at least. (However if we go on a signing spree next year we may not even get that since what we sign maybe more valuable than what we lose)

1) I don't think it's wise to pay a player $14 million for one season on the basis of the compensatory pick he might give you over a year later.

2) The highest compensatory pick we can get for Freeney is a 5th rounder, since he's a 10 year+ vet.

[betheafan41]

the colts could still trade him before the season and get picks or a player or even a player and a pick for him and then turn around and resign him in the off season. idk how many of you watch baseball, but for example the phillies did it in 2010 sent cliff lee to seattle for prospects so they can draft halladay, mariners sent him to texas for prospects the end of the season cliff lee took a smaller contract to go back to philly during the off season. so they could try to work something out that way and tell him behind closed doors that their going to trade him to get picks or an impact player, but want to bring him back in the off season with a contract they both can agree on. wonder if freeney would go for it?

[Gavin]

1) I don't think it's wise to pay a player $14 million for one season on the basis of the compensatory pick he might give you over a year later.

2) The highest compensatory pick we can get for Freeney is a 5th rounder, since he's a 10 year+ vet.

So in other words at best we just get our 5th rounder back and eat the money if he walks

[betheafan41]

I think he is staying. One no one can take on his contract unless he does some restructuring and I think that is a reach. Two we would get probably a 3rd round compensatory pick for him. Three while we would get some extra cap space next year we aren't hurting and that probably isn't a big priority for this team. And finally I just don't think we can afford to let him go at this point. There is really no one out there to replace him with and we would have a glaring hole all season at OLB.

I think at this point we just have to eat it and hope he will give us a home town discount next year like Reggie did if he is still able to play at a high level. Otherwise we let him walk and we get our high compensatory pick out of him at least. (However if we go on a signing spree next year we may not even get that since what we sign maybe more valuable than what we lose)

actually to be honest id rather see hughes and fugger (i think thats his name lol) get a shot at outside linebacker, and if we risk losing freeney in FA to a team who runs a 4-3 and will put im on the line i believe we need to just trade him now and try to get a pick or two or even a player even if its just an average player with a 5th or 6th round pick (prefer CB, doesnt hurt to have alot of depth at that position givin colts history at the DB position in the injury department). but thats my opinion

[GoColts8818]

Dwight wants to stay....but he doesn't want to take a cut in pay

..and unless we get awfully good awfully fast...and are playoff contenders..

he's playing his final year with us...at his salary

Well yes he's scheduled to make more than manning was this year even if has a great season no one will give him a contract like that for an older player.

[subvet]

This isn't apples and oranges, it's apples and Worcestershire sauce.

Sarcasm sir.

Don't be so quick to criticize.

[Superman]

Sarcasm sir.

Don't be so quick to criticize.

Yes, I know. Just saying, it's not the same thing.

[Superman]

So in other words at best we just get our 5th rounder back and eat the money if he walks

I don't think the potential compensatory pick is a part of the thought process. The money is too big, the potential impact is too big, and a compensatory pick at the end of the 5th round doesn't carry enough weight to be a part of the conversation. When the front office decides how to approach the Freeney situation, the compensatory pick isn't a factor.

[Gavin]

I don't think the potential compensatory pick is a part of the thought process. The money is too big, the potential impact is too big, and a compensatory pick at the end of the 5th round doesn't carry enough weight to be a part of the conversation. When the front office decides how to approach the Freeney situation, the compensatory pick isn't a factor.

Perhaps it should carry enough weight though as that would get our 5th round pick back and as we saw last year you never know who will fall that far for whatever reason not to mention the cap relief, once again I think the trading Freeney ship has done sailed but still worth looking into I think

[dgambill]

I wasn't aware that was all we would get. That said it is almost impossible to move that contract. No one has the cap space.

[Gavin]

Thats the problem lol but hopefully he will play like Freeney always does and all will go well

[funktacious2]

I don't see why he can't be good in a 3-4. It's similar to what he was doing before except now he gets to rush wherever he wants to instead of being lined up against the LT.

$14 mil for Freeney who is productive = $ well spent in my opinion. If he's not, then we could use the money elsewhere. If they take that $14 mil and spend it on the Justin King's and Cassius Vaughns' of the world...not money well spent in my opinion.

In conclusion, if you are getting rid of Freeney to free up $, who are you going to get, or who are you going to resign that brings as much value as Freeney given the money you've set aside?

For 14 mil you're going to get a proven starter or 2.

[Superman]

Perhaps it should carry enough weight though as that would get our 5th round pick back and as we saw last year you never know who will fall that far for whatever reason not to mention the cap relief, once again I think the trading Freeney ship has done sailed but still worth looking into I think

We wouldn't get that pick until 2014.

[Superman]

I wasn't aware that was all we would get. That said it is almost impossible to move that contract. No one has the cap space.

Can't move that contract, but you can allow his agent to discuss an extension with other teams. I don't think anyone would give up anything of value for Freeney as long as he's due $14 million this season, cap space or not.

And I'll admit, I'm more and more looking forward to seeing him in the new defense.

[21isSuperman]

I don't get all the Freeney hate. Every time I've seen him in an interview, he has always said he is excited for the new defense and his new role. I have never once heard him say that he wants to be traded or released or anything.

[Superman]

I don't get all the Freeney hate. Every time I've seen him in an interview, he has always said he is excited for the new defense and his new role. I have never once heard him say that he wants to be traded or released or anything.

Speaking only for myself, I have no ill feelings toward Freeney, and I still think he's one of the best in the league. But I don't think we should pay him a base salary of $14 million in 2012.

[subvet]

Yes, I know. Just saying, it's not the same thing.

Speaking only for myself, I have no ill feelings toward Freeney, and I still think he's one of the best in the league. But I don't think we should pay him a base salary of $14 million in 2012.

They are both players, they both were Colts, they both have huge contracts, so other than the fact that Manning is a living legend how is it different?

[subvet]

There is a huge difference between Manning and Freeney contracts. If they kept Manning with his contract, they would have been locked in for 4 more years and the way the contract was set up, if they released him later the cap hit would have been enormous. Freeney has one season to prove himself. I don't think he has to be dominant. He has to be good. Worthy of being a stater and then be paid accordingly. He won't be released or traded prior to the season or during the season. If he doesn't fit as an OLB at all, they will use him as a 4-3 DE in the four man fronts. I see no reason why he wont have success.

To say that it doesn't matter if he wants to stay is foolish. If he truly means what he said, he will take a reasonable offer from the colts. He wont demand top of the league money just like Wayne. If he plays well and wants to be a colt, he will be. No comparison to the Manning situation

I always heard size doesn't matter, oh yeah in contracts i guess it does...but really they are similar but of course not the same so I feel it is fair to compare the two, they are just different in size like an apple is to the whole tree.

[Superman]

They are both players, they both were Colts, they both have huge contracts, so other than the fact that Manning is a living legend how is it different?

1) Freeney has a huge cap number for 2012, but not really a huge contract. Manning was due $28 million in one lump sum; Freeney is due half of that over the course of the season.

2) Manning just missed an entire season with an injury that can be difficult to rebound from.

3) The Colts had to make a decision on Manning's contract by early March; the Colts really don't have any kind of decision to make on Freeney's contract.

4) The terms of the CBA and Freeney's contract make it possible for the Colts and Freeney to negotiate new terms for his contract; the Colts couldn't negotiate the $28 million option bonus.

5) The Colts had the chance to draft the highest rated QB prospect in over a decade, and you can't play two quarterbacks.

I really don't think it's close to the same circumstances, otherwise, Freeney would be gone also. I get your point: If Manning can be let go, then so can Freeney. And that's true. But the motivating factors in the Manning situation don't apply to Freeney. That's all I'm saying.

[willysp]

Speaking only for myself, I have no ill feelings toward Freeney, and I still think he's one of the best in the league. But I don't think we should pay him a base salary of $14 million in 2012.

Agreed - great guy, just a silly number. But kudos to Dwight and agent for getting the former FO to agree to it. I'm sure he'll give us 100%.