How good is Andrew Luck?

[Gavin]

True, and there is no guarantee that Luck will. However, Manning wasn’t replacing a QB that had had 12 winning seasons and built the franchise that we have or at least had up until last year. The only ill feeling that Colts fans had at that time was suffering through horrendous play by QB’s like Jeff George and dumb decisions from the GM like drafting Jeff George. At that time change was seen as a good thing

Change is still seen as a good thing by me. once you look at the key reasons behind the release, 28 million dollars, 4 neck surgeries an oppurtunity to start with a highly talked about quarterback for the next so many years while rebuilding the team to be a complete team, if teams want to consistently compete then they must must not be afraid to make necessary changes do to age, injuries, money lack of performance or all of the above, I had plenty of ill feelings about the defense outside of Freeney and Mathis and like I have said a few times before, it was rather easy to take them out of the equation if a team tried hard enough, just run the ball or throw a screem over their head as they are rushing or chip one with a Tight End

[Fx Stryker]

Manning didnt win early on

Took him 5 years to match a 14 years playoff history in Indy.

so called Colts fans

More than half these fans wouldn't even like the Colts if they weren't in Indy. So don't question someones fan hood. I'll be there long after the days they aren't in Indy, if that happens.

Also don't put yourself ahead of others fans. I can almost guarantee youse will be the first ones to throw Luck out of the door just like youse did with Manning.

EDIT: If you feel to continue to discuss the subject PM. I'm done with it for public viewing. It's gone far enough.

[Jules]

Took him 5 years to match a 14 years playoff history in Indy.

More than half these fans wouldn't even like the Colts if they weren't in Indy. So don't question someones fan hood. I'll be there long after the days they aren't in Indy, if that happens.

Also don't put yourself ahead of others fans. I can almost guarantee youse will be the first ones to throw Luck out of the door just like youse did with Manning.

"Let me root root root for the home team and if they don't win it's a shame........."

[Jules]

Irsay made some very tough decisions over the years and given the history since he took over he has been an excellent owner, we had some success before the Manning years, We came within a dropped pass against the Steelers in the 1995 AFC Championship game

The refs jobbed the Colts in Pittsburgh. I was a young teenager but that might always be my favorite Colts team of all time. It was beyond exciting and unpredictable.

[Creekside]

The refs jobbed the Colts in Pittsburgh. I was a young teenager but that might always be my favorite Colts team of all time. It was beyond exciting and unpredictable.

....it was the best football game I have ever seen

[GoColts8818]

Manning didnt win early on

He was 13-3 in his second year and at that point set a new Indianapolis colts record for wins on a season. If that's not winning early I don't know what is.

[GoColts8818]

Irsay made some very tough decisions over the years and given the history since he took over he has been an excellent owner, we had some success before the Manning years, We came within a dropped pass against the Steelers in the 1995 AFC Championship game

Ans people forget irsay made tbe hard call to trade then fan favorite Jim harbaugh to make room for Peyton manning in the first place. For the record I am not saying harbaugh is even in mannings league but at the time harbaugh was the second biggest sports star in Indy other than Reggie miller and had given indianapolis colts thier first true taste of success. It was hard to see him go. Also for tbe record irsay made tbe right call then. Time will tell of history will repeat its self. Time being the key word we won't know this season and defently not now so I would encourage people to give this time before they judge one way or another.

[Gavin]

He was 13-3 in his second year and at that point set a new Indianapolis colts record for wins on a season. If that's not winning early I don't know what is.

I think we are on separate wave lengths on 'winning early' I meant early on as in his rookie year

[Nadine]

The refs jobbed the Colts in Pittsburgh. I was a young teenager but that might always be my favorite Colts team of all time. It was beyond exciting and unpredictable.

I was at that game and am still waiting for revenge..........long time to nurse this grudge :0

[HarryTheCat]

Eagles-Vick isn't getting any younger-13

And he isn't getting any smarter either. There are only a couple of IQ points keeping him out of a salad.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Change is still seen as a good thing by me. once you look at the key reasons behind the release, 28 million dollars, 4 neck surgeries an oppurtunity to start with a highly talked about quarterback for the next so many years while rebuilding the team to be a complete team, if teams want to consistently compete then they must must not be afraid to make necessary changes do to age, injuries, money lack of performance or all of the above, I had plenty of ill feelings about the defense outside of Freeney and Mathis and like I have said a few times before, it was rather easy to take them out of the equation if a team tried hard enough, just run the ball or throw a screem over their head as they are rushing or chip one with a Tight End

I agree with you. As hard as it was to see Peyton go I feel it was the correct decision by both him and Irsay. If he stays then there is no money left to strengthen the team around him and he spends the rest of his career in mediocrity or worse injured beyond recovery because the line cant defend him. The defense can’t stop anyone and he is forced once again to carry the franchise and Luck sits on the bench learning some yes but needing a year or two of his own to get his footing once he does start. Irsay was not willing to wait another six or seven years for wholesale improvement and I for one don’t blame him.

Bite the bullet and start fixing the problems now.

[andreaallennyc]

No, but I only needed four teams to make the statement false. I could name probably 12-13 teams.

Here's an interesting quote from Mark Kiszla (Denver Post): Kiz: OK, let's talk trade. How many Indy fans would swap rookie quarterback Andrew Luck this very second to get Manning back in a Colts uniform? And, more important, would Elway trade Manning for Luck? No offense to Manning, among the five greatest QBs in NFL history, but here's betting Elway and at least 25 other general managers in the league would sign off on that deal faster than you could say fourth-quarter comeback.

Read more: Kickin' It: Peyton Manning may be great, but I'd rather have Andrew Luck - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_20823308?source#ixzz1xOuI6Gvm

[Gramz]

Here's an interesting quote from Mark Kiszla (Denver Post): Kiz: OK, let's talk trade. How many Indy fans would swap rookie quarterback Andrew Luck this very second to get Manning back in a Colts uniform? And, more important, would Elway trade Manning for Luck? No offense to Manning, among the five greatest QBs in NFL history, but here's betting Elway and at least 25 other general managers in the league would sign off on that deal faster than you could say fourth-quarter comeback.

Read more: Kickin' It: Peyton Manning may be great, but I'd rather have Andrew Luck - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_20823308?source#ixzz1xOuI6Gvm

one reporters opinion....

[NewEra]

one reporters opinion....

Exactly, same as the fans opinions. Time will tell. I for one think Luck is going to be a very very specially qb in this league. He will live up to the hype, book it. Then we shall she the flood gates open with these fans swarming back...

[Gramz]

Exactly, same as the fans opinions. Time will tell. I for one think Luck is going to be a very very specially qb in this league. He will live up to the hype, book it. Then we shall she the flood gates open with these fans swarming back...

I don't disagree with you..... Just stating that it is irresponsible "reporting" to make a comment like that, with No Facts to back it up.. I wonder if he contacted his quoted 25 GM's to get "their" opinion or any Indy fans for that matter.

[andreaallennyc]

one reporters opinion....

Obviously ... and a very different opinion than some here are expressing ... So I thought worth pointing out ...

[andreaallennyc]

I don't disagree with you..... Just stating that it is irresponsible "reporting" to make a comment like that, with No Facts to back it up.. I wonder if he contacted his quoted 25 GM's to get "their" opinion or any Indy fans for that matter.

What makes that irresponsible? It's an opinion, not a "report" and clearly given as an opinion ... You're not the only one entitled to an opinion, as far as I know.

[Gramz]

What makes that irresponsible? It's an opinion, not a "report" and clearly given as an opinion ... You're not the only one entitled to an opinion, as far as I know.

I stand corrected... Thank You.

[FireJimCaldwell]

What makes that irresponsible? It's an opinion, not a "report" and clearly given as an opinion ... You're not the only one entitled to an opinion, as far as I know.

The dangerous part of it, is that as a member of the media when he puts it in print in black and white, or whatever.com, it is then put out there and simple people (FINE TOOTH COMB EDIT, THIS POST IS NOT CALLING ANDREA OR ANYONE READING IT SIMPLE) will take it as fact. It happens every day.

[Vance]

I just wanna taste his beard.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I just wanna taste his beard.

Elaboration requested.

I don't disagree with you..... Just stating that it is irresponsible "reporting" to make a comment like that, with No Facts to back it up.. I wonder if he contacted his quoted 25 GM's to get "their" opinion or any Indy fans for that matter.

I think it needs to be said that opinions are like precious metals. Some hold more value than others.

[Carlos Danger]

We will only have to wait and find out how he will be.

Patriots, Giants, Packers, Lions. So that is already wrong, and there is many more.

I also don't believe that so many teams would have pursued Luck, but just for the sake of being the devil's advocate I'll point out that Tom Brady is getting older, Green Bay has ZERO QB talent behind Rodgers, and I believe (hope) that Luck will be much better than Stafford in 1-2 years... I know that none of these teams would actually pursue him if he were a FA, though... NE will find an unknown late rounder to replace Brady, GB just got rid of Flynn, and Detroit is allergic to success. Also, Carolina, New Orleans, Cincy, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Atlanta would probably all pass on Luck in FA without even an offer.

Edit: didn't see the other 2 pages of posts and now realize that this aspect of the topic had already been thoroughly discussed/debated so.... Yeah! Andrew will be GRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!

[GoColts8818]

I think we are on separate wave lengths on 'winning early' I meant early on as in his rookie year

almost no first overall pick wins early in his rookie year there is normally a reason why your team had the first overall pick and it's generally more than you are one player away from being a good team. To expect any first over all draft pick to come in and turn things around day one is unrealistic expectations and frankly not many of those fans exist.

[GoColts8818]

What makes that irresponsible? It's an opinion, not a "report" and clearly given as an opinion ... You're not the only one entitled to an opinion, as far as I know.

I don't think she said she was the only one entitled to an opinion so let's not try to put words in her mouth just because you don't happen to like her view point.

With that said reporters or people who pass themselves off as reporters are normally held to a little bit higher standard than say fans when it comes to giving out opinions because their opinions tend to carry a little more weight. It's like this if I say gee I think it might storm today you might want to take cover you probably wont react the same way if the weather man on TV says I think might storm today you might want to take cover. Both are the same opinion just one carries a little more weight behind it because of who said it. If the weather man said that and it was bright 90 degree with 0% chance of ran he would get nailed for being irresponsible again because of who he is. If it was you or me who said it we would just get made fun of it by our friends being dead wrong again because of who we are.

That's not to say reporters aren't entitled to their opinion they sure as and as Gramz first said "just one reporter's opinion."

Also for the record I don't really have an issue with what the guy wrote. He's probably right a lot of Colts fans would probably would trade Luck to have Manning back. With that said that's why fans aren't NFL GMs. GMs study this stuff and 99.9% of the time they will go with the younger guy over the older player if they think the younger guy can be just as good as the vet.

[NewColtsFan]

Wow..... this thread sure got chippy quickly..... and over what? The Denver reporter wrote.... "here's betting that 25 GMs would......"

There are no facts here. He didn't call 25 GMS.... He's only stating his opinion and his opinion **ONLY** That's it.

Can we take a deep breath and take a step back....

A writer says something like that because GM's are typically Big Picture guys. So, Big Picture says 12-15 years of Andrew Luck is likely more desirable than 3-4 years of Peyton Manning at age 36 coming off of 4 neck surgeries. That's the thinking.

Personally, I agree with this view. But I'm certainly not offended by anyone who thinks my head is up my rear.... I realize we're talking about Peyton Freaking Manning. I love the guy! For my money, I love him more than Favre. Just my opinion.

But if I'm a GM and someone says..... your choice, Andrew Luck at 22, or Peyton Manning at 36.... I'm taking Luck, all day, every day. And I won't lose any sleep over it.

That said, it's just my opinion. I could be wrong. And often am!!

NewColtsFan

[FireJimCaldwell]

It was Chippy long before then.

[Gavin]

Chippiness is going to happen on a public forum, fans are passionate about there Colts, Andrew Luck, Manning, the list goes on, the key isn't to take it personal and just be able to walk away at the end of the day whether a board is chippy or not taking opinions with a grain of salt and not personal, not always easy but it is how it is and not much can be done to change that

[MAC]

I realize we're talking about Peyton Freaking Manning. I love the guy! For my money, I love him more than Favre. Just my opinion.

Wow, EVEN more than Favre? Geesh. If your thinking that this is a bold or controversial statement, you might want to remember what board you recently chose to join. Somewhere in the neighborhood of EVERYONE here would agree with you - many with considerably less flattering words for Favre.

And while I agree with the logic of your "age" argument, this is not a forum full of cold, calculating GMs whose primary consideration is the furtherance of their own careers. There are many here whose fondest wish would have been to see Peyton's career run it's course with the Colts - whatever the consequences. What Luck may or may not turn into is largely irrelevant, because the one thing we know is that he isn't Peyton Manning.

(PS: There is no need to put your handle at the bottom of each post. The messages are clearly demarcated.)

[Gavin]

Wow, EVEN more than Favre? Geesh. If your thinking that this is a bold or controversial statement, you might want to remember what board you recently chose to join. Somewhere in the neighborhood of EVERYONE here would agree with you - many with considerably less flattering words for Favre.

And while I agree with the logic of your "age" argument, this is not a forum full of cold, calculating GMs whose primary consideration is the furtherance of their own careers. There are many here whose fondest wish would have been to see Peyton's career run it's course with the Colts - whatever the consequences. What Luck may or may not turn into is largely irrelevant, because the one thing we know is that he isn't Peyton Manning.

(PS: There is no need to put your handle at the bottom of each post. The messages are clearly demarcated.)

I do love your shots at Irsay who brought you Peyton to begin with, so kind as far as cold, I hardly think the many foundations and people Irsay has helped over the years would say he is cold at least if they were thinking logically and not with there emotions........which strangely enough is as you call it "cold and calculating" is the exact thing that is needed to run a multi billion dollar business as for his signature NCF adds at the end of his posts I see nothing wrong with it

[funktacious2]

Legend has it that he's 8 feet tall, carries a 250 pound broadsword, and rides onto the field on a horrifying, sparkling unicorn.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I do love your shots at Irsay who brought you Peyton to begin with, so kind as far as cold, I hardly think the many foundations and people Irsay has helped over the years would say he is cold at least if they were thinking logically and not with there emotions........which strangely enough is as you call it "cold and calculating" is the exact thing that is needed to run a multi billion dollar business as for his signature NCF adds at the end of his posts I see nothing wrong with it

Where were the alleged shots at Irsay? MAC didn't fire any. I'll leave it at that as opposed to finishing my thought.

[MAC]

I do love your shots at Irsay who brought you Peyton to begin with, so kind as far as cold, I hardly think the many foundations and people Irsay has helped over the years would say he is cold at least if they were thinking logically and not with there emotions........which strangely enough is as you call it "cold and calculating" is the exact thing that is needed to run a multi billion dollar business as for his signature NCF adds at the end of his posts I see nothing wrong with it

What in God's name are you talking about? There isn't a single word in my post (or thought behind my post) that had ANYTHING to do with Irsay. He is even less relevant to the theme than Luck. I was just defending Peyton, and teasing a Stanford fan who apparently thinks that Favre and Manning played in the same league. I don't habitually take shots at Irsay, I normally defend him. Some of his off-the-wall actions annoy me, but in general I think that he is terrific (particularly striking since I detested his father with a passion). Once again, what are you talking about? You reply is so off course that it took me a minute to be sure that you quoted the right post.

As far as signing the ends of the threads, it's either a new guy who doesn't realize it's not necessary, or an old fashioned guy who thinks it's appropriate. I wouldn't dream of sending a letter, email, or even an initial PM without putting my name at the end - I'm old enough to have actual experience writing hundreds of letters, and the protocol is so ingrained as for the thought of not doing it to be physically painful. But it's not necessary here. One guy doing it is just mildly annoying. Can you imagine if everyone did it? Please don't pick up the habit.

[Gavin]

Where were the alleged shots at Irsay? MAC didn't fire any. I'll leave it at that as opposed to finishing my thought.

'this is not a forum full of cold calculating GM's whose primary consideration is the furtherance of their own careersThere are many here whose fondest wish would have been to see Peyton's career run it's course with the Colts - whatever the consequences. " statement reeks of an Irsay shot if you ask me even though Irsay is the owner and not the GM

[FireJimCaldwell]

'this is not a forum full of cold calculating GM's whose primary consideration is the furtherance of their own careersThere are many here whose fondest wish would have been to see Peyton's career run it's course with the Colts - whatever the consequences. " statement reeks of an Irsay shot if you ask me even though Irsay is the owner and not the GM

Uh huh.

I'll give you one thing. You have a unique perspective on a number of things.

[MAC]

'this is not a forum full of cold calculating GM's whose primary consideration is the furtherance of their own careersThere are many here whose fondest wish would have been to see Peyton's career run it's course with the Colts - whatever the consequences. " statement reeks of an Irsay shot if you ask me even though Irsay is the owner and not the GM

OMG. The article in question was referring to 25 GMs around the league. The poster I was answering was talking about the logic typically brought to bear by GMs (such as the aforementioned 25). I was describing GMs as typically being solely concerned about their own careers - which are typically short unless they provide results. They don't have the luxury of (or lifetime experience with) team/player loyalties and adoration such as that which leads many fans on (for instance) a Colts forum to value Peyton above and beyond any logical calculations.

Something reeks, but it wasn't my comments - which had NOTHING to do with Irsay. I write lots of things that you are free to disagree with, but please refrain from reading tea leaves and foisting hidden theories and meanings on me. If I had intended to express displeasure with Irsay, it would have been plainly evident.

[Gavin]

OMG. The article in question was referring to 25 GMs around the league. The poster I was answering was talking about the logic typically brought to bear by GMs (such as the aforementioned 25). I was describing GMs as typically being solely concerned about their own careers - which are typically short unless they provide results. They don't have the luxury of (or lifetime experience with) team/player loyalties and adoration such as that which leads many fans on (for instance) a Colts forum to value Peyton above and beyond any logical calculations.

Something reeks, but it wasn't my comments - which had NOTHING to do with Irsay. I write lots of things that you are free to disagree with, but please refrain from reading tea leaves and foisting hidden theories and meanings on me. If I had intended to express displeasure with Irsay, it would have been plainly evident.

My apologies then I misinterpreted the conversation no harm was intended

[Jules]

I was at that game and am still waiting for revenge..........long time to nurse this grudge :0

If there is one thing missing from the Colts resume and still bugs me it is winning a big game vs. Pittsburgh. I don't even feel the need to avenge anything vs. San Diego. It is the Steelers.

Maybe someday we can do it with Luck. Who knows. But, beating the Steelers in a big game even if we lost a week later would make me the happiest person on the planet.

It is why 2005 hurts so bad and hurts the most to me out of all seasons. It is why the 2008 regular season win in Pittsburgh made me jump around screaming. It is why losing to the Jets in Peyton's final game here bugs me. Even if we did lose a week later in Pittsburgh I at least wanted THE CHANCE to play vs. them.

[NewColtsFan]

Wow, EVEN more than Favre? Geesh. If your thinking that this is a bold or controversial statement, you might want to remember what board you recently chose to join. Somewhere in the neighborhood of EVERYONE here would agree with you - many with considerably less flattering words for Favre.

And while I agree with the logic of your "age" argument, this is not a forum full of cold, calculating GMs whose primary consideration is the furtherance of their own careers. There are many here whose fondest wish would have been to see Peyton's career run it's course with the Colts - whatever the consequences. What Luck may or may not turn into is largely irrelevant, because the one thing we know is that he isn't Peyton Manning.

(PS: There is no need to put your handle at the bottom of each post. The messages are clearly demarcated.)

I'll take these in reverse order.... I won't sign out. On the other website I frequent, I do.... force of habit. I'll stop doing that here.

2nd, I thought I had read someone here speaking well of Favre. I was offering context. I'm well aware of what website I'm on.

As to the fact this isn't a forum of cold calculating GM's, there was, in my opinion, a ridiculous debate over what the writer said. Was it opinion? Was it fact? Did he call other GM's and on and on and on. People got carried away over nothing. I was offering insight from the perspective of a media person, which I was for 30 years.

Also.... I noticed in another post you stated you don't think Manning and Favre are in the same league. Or, am I misinterpreting your comment? This may be a Colts website, but I don't care if 100% of its members think Manning is better, but to imply or even suggest that Bret Favre isn't in the same league as Peyton Manning is complete nonsense and would be laughed at on any other website that had any level of objectivity. There is no argument -- none -- that Favre isn't in the same league as Manning. You can argue Manning is better. I agree with that. But not in the same league? Please. Don't even go there. And if that is indeed your view, my advice is to keep it to yourself.

Some people are not comfortable having an unpopular opinion. I'm not one of them.

[Susie Q]

What makes that irresponsible? It's an opinion, not a "report" and clearly given as an opinion ... You're not the only one entitled to an opinion, as far as I know.

Well that opinion road travels two ways. That is what a forum board is for to voice your opinions and I never read that anyone thought that they were the only one entitled to an opinion. JMO of course.

[Fx Stryker]

I guess we have Irsay's White Knight in this thread.