Colts have the 15th pick in the draft. (MERGE)

[ChuggaBeer]

4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Put this way if pittman  gets hurt are you really comfortable  with pierce as the number one. IM NOT.

You can use that scenario with D players as well 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Agreed. I am really hoping defense with 1st two picks. I believe this team needs a FS and corner badly.

I don’t really see a free safety in the first two rounds. They reportedly view desean as a versatile corner. I don’t think corner is necessarily the only route in the 1st round, but I’d be shocked to see our 1st as a defensive player outside of an edge rusher. I don’t make much prediction, because I have no idea what to expect. I can make the same argument for not needing to pick a receiver in the 1st. I think there is good talent day 2. 

[Stephen]

5 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

You can use that scenario with D players as well 

That scenario  played out with the defense  last year.im fine with defense  1st and 3rd Or second and third. Both need to be addressed  with first  two picks is all I'm saying. 

[ColtStrong2013]

7 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

You can use that scenario with D players as well 

yeah but is defense more important than having the best offense we can put forward? The games that we were blown out on were pitiful on offense and the wins we left on the table were due to not having enough offense. We can win with an explosive offense and a slightly improved defense from last year. I don’t see it the other way around. Ideally, there needs to be balance. Hoping we strike that balance this draft. 

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I don’t really see a free safety in the first two rounds. They reportedly view desean as a versatile corner. I don’t think corner is necessarily the only route in the 1st round, but I’d be shocked to see our 1st as a defensive player outside of an edge rusher. I don’t make much prediction, because I have no idea what to expect. I can make the same argument for not needing to pick a receiver in the 1st. I think there is good talent day 2. 

Unless they turn DeSean into free safety 

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, Stephen said:

Unless they turn DeSean into free safety 

that’s not what has been reported. They are one of the  teams that view him as a corner. Maybe that is why he has a 1st round grade on their board, whereas at free safety, maybe he doesn’t. 

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

yeah but is defense more important than having the best offense we can put forward? The games that we were blown out on were pitiful on offense and the wins we left on the table were due to not having enough offense. We can win with an explosive offense and a slightly improved defense from last year. I don’t see it the other way around. Ideally, there needs to be balance. Hoping we strike that balance this draft. 

Plus there are a couple free agents left that can improve  the defense.  Not sure I can say the same for the offensive  free agents

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, Stephen said:

Plus there are a couple free agents left that can improve  the defense.  Not sure I can say the same for the offensive  free agents

that’s how I feel. We can still improve the safety room. I don’t see that on offense. Unless there’s a big trade in the works. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

Unless they turn DeSean into free safety 

He has a lot of versatility and  a lot of teams see him as a safety and the highest safety on the board. I believe the Colts view him as both. He could very valuable going into the season. If the corners don't play well, you could try him at one of the corner spots. If the corners look good, you can slide him to safety.  U could slide him to what ever position is needing it the most. . To me he is a late 1st rounder mostly 2nd. He could get drafted in the 1st to play by most teams. If you are drafting him to play corner, he to me is a 2nd rounder

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Nope. Besides the colts and Ryan Kelly have been really close and they’ve supported him with his personal life tragedies. I think he’d be supportive 

 

You don’t take a FS in the first… and CBs, meh in the middle or upper first

ballard drafted hooker in the first with pick 15, that did not work out for us

[Stephen]

5 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

He has a lot of versatility and  a lot of teams see him as a safety and the highest safety on the board. I believe the Colts view him as both. He could very valuable going into the season. If the corners don't play well, you could try him at one of the corner spots. If the corners look good, you can slide him to safety.  U could slide him to what ever position is needing it the most. . To me he is a late 1st rounder mostly 2nd. He could get drafted in the 1st to play by most teams. If you are drafting him to play corner, he to me is a 2nd rounder

He reminds of that guy the Browns took a few years back that was supposed  to be able to play multiple positions 

Just now, OLD FAN MAN said:

ballard drafted hooker in the first with pick 15, that did not work out for us

He was supposed  to be the next Ed Reed. He clearly  wasn't 

[BlackTiger]

49 minutes ago, stitches said:

Said he's hearing "we need speed, we need speed" from the Colts

Weird comment when we have one of the fastest QBs and maybe the fastest RB in the league.  

 

We dont seem to have a 4.3 WR on the team but Pierce and Downs are probably low 4.4

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, Stephen said:

He reminds of that guy the Browns took a few years back that was supposed  to be able to play multiple positions 

He was supposed  to be the next Ed Reed. He clearly  wasn't 

And the biggest reason he wasn’t was the terrible knee injury he suffered.  Missed one year and still had a hitch in his running form the next year.   It wasn’t so much the ability as it was the devastating injury.  

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

Weird comment when we have one of the fastest QBs and maybe the fastest RB in the league.  

 

We dont seem to have a 4.3 WR on the team but Pierce and Downs are probably low 4.4

I agree we do need an elite field stretcher that actually  plays at 4.3 speed

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

And the biggest reason he wasn’t was the terrible knee injury he suffered.  Missed one year and still had a hutch in his running form the next year.   It wasn’t so much the ability as it was the devastating injury.  

He was on pace to break rookie record  in ints prior to that

[BlackTiger]

I'd be willing to draft a CB pretty high.  #1 overall might be a stretch  but I could do third or so.

 

If it were Deion sanders and I needed a corner I'd be ok with first.   Of course he played offense and sp teams too

[Stephen]

Just now, BlackTiger said:

I'd be willing to draft a CB pretty high.  #1 overall might be a stretch  but I could do third or so.

 

If it were Deion sanders and I needed a corner I'd be ok with first.   Of course he played offense and sp teams too

Or Darrell  Revis level

[ChuggaBeer]

30 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

yeah but is defense more important than having the best offense we can put forward? The games that we were blown out on were pitiful on offense and the wins we left on the table were due to not having enough offense. We can win with an explosive offense and a slightly improved defense from last year. I don’t see it the other way around. Ideally, there needs to be balance. Hoping we strike that balance this draft. 

Who was the QB in those games?  

[Dobbinblitz]

FWIW, Albert Breer reported that he is also hearing Buzz about the Colts moving up in the draft for an Offensive Skill Position Player. If so “Striking Distance” for the  Colts is likely #9  the Chicago pick.

[jvan1973]

31 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

ballard drafted hooker in the first with pick 15, that did not work out for us

Dallas seems to like him.   He was also very highly rated before the draft

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

FWIW, Albert Breer reported that he is also hearing Buzz about the Colts moving up in the draft for an Offensive Skill Position Player. If so “Striking Distance” for the  Colts is likely #9  the Chicago pick.

There is no Buzz.  It's speculation from the media.   The Colts front office has never leaked anything 

[RollerColt]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

There is no Buzz.  It's speculation from the media.   The Colts front office has never leaked anything 

Correct. The Colts are a tightly run ship. 

[ChuggaBeer]

11 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Dallas seems to like him.   He was also very highly rated before the draft

And he was playing very well before getting injured 

[ColtStrong2013]

20 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

Who was the QB in those games?  

I don’t disagree. But if AR is going to make enough difference to win the close games, wouldn’t we want to put every tool in his bag to be the true difference for this team? What players on defense are going to be a bigger difference maker for this team over a high level pass catcher/playmaker, if AR is that guy? That argument isn’t just, well AR is better, therefore he will get us to the playoffs. If that is true, why would it not be better to load him up with playmakers that can make a difference now and over the next several years than to just keep what we have and try and find a few defensive players? We’ll address the defense at some point in the draft… I think we’ll still get a vet in the secondary room post draft. I think the corners will be better next year. Defensive line could very well also. Will our pass catchers be better? Just because AR is out there? I don’t necessarily see it that way. I think the offense will be, but I see no reason to not load him up. 

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Dallas seems to like him.   He was also very highly rated before the draft

 

If there was any flaw with the Hooker pick, it was simply his injury history. Dude was a big time playmaker, and he showed that whenever he was healthy. Sadly, that wasn't often enough, and it undermined his career potential.

 

There's also a common perception that FS isn't a first round position. I fully believe in positional value, but I don't agree at FS. I think it's close to a premium position when you have a playmaker. Especially when you want to play a bunch of Cover 3.

[Dobbinblitz]

9 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

There is no Buzz.  It's speculation from the media.   The Colts front office has never leaked anything 

Of,course it is just speculation. This forum is all speculation and opinions , and to your point nothing is ever leaked from the organization they don’t want public including the content of their pre-draft videos. It is all just spitballing in the offseason by the media and the fans.

[ChuggaBeer]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I don’t disagree. But if AR is going to make enough difference to win the close games, wouldn’t we want to put every tool in his bag to be the true difference for this team? What players on defense are going to be a bigger difference maker for this team over a high level pass catcher/playmaker, if AR is that guy? That argument isn’t just, well AR is better, therefore he will get us to the playoffs. If that is true, why would it not be better to load him up with playmakers that can make a difference now and over the next several years than to just keep what we have and try and find a few defensive players? We’ll address the defense at some point in the draft… I think we’ll still get a vet in the secondary room post draft. I think the corners will be better next year. Defensive line could very well also. Will our pass catchers be better? Just because AR is out there? I don’t necessarily see it that way. I think the offense will be, but I see no reason to not load him up. 

I cant disagree with anything you wrote.     I just think a great D can help a growing offense.   I also think its easier to add talent on the offensive side of the ball.   The D needs more scheme fit that the offense does.   Offense can adapt/change to new talent easier than a D can.

 

AlsoI like D better than O 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Dobbinblitz said:

How do you see it then? Post June cuts more likely?

I think we’re probably working either a Kelly or Paye extension 

53 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

ballard drafted hooker in the first with pick 15, that did not work out for us

Yep

[ColtStrong2013]

16 minutes ago, ChuggaBeer said:

I cant disagree with anything you wrote.     I just think a great D can help a growing offense.   I also think its easier to add talent on the offensive side of the ball.   The D needs more scheme fit that the offense does.   Offense can adapt/change to new talent easier than a D can.

 

AlsoI like D better than O 

I think we are closer to a great offense than a great defense. Especially within the duration of AR rookie contract and JT’s peak years, which I think are the next few seasons. I’d much rather load up offensively to assist AR’s development and then focus on building a strong defense for when that time runs out. That means continuing to build up the o-line and put weapons around AR. That’s basically what Ballard said earlier that their goal was. I just don’t see them focusing on defense, and I hope people on here don’t get disappointed if we see an early run on offense, pass catcher and interior line both, versus needed pieces on defense. Not predicting that will happen, but i do somewhat hope it does. They are both deep classes though, so i wont be shocked if they dont search for mid round value there. 

[boo2202]

24 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I don’t disagree. But if AR is going to make enough difference to win the close games, wouldn’t we want to put every tool in his bag to be the true difference for this team? What players on defense are going to be a bigger difference maker for this team over a high level pass catcher/playmaker, if AR is that guy? That argument isn’t just, well AR is better, therefore he will get us to the playoffs. If that is true, why would it not be better to load him up with playmakers that can make a difference now and over the next several years than to just keep what we have and try and find a few defensive players? We’ll address the defense at some point in the draft… I think we’ll still get a vet in the secondary room post draft. I think the corners will be better next year. Defensive line could very well also. Will our pass catchers be better? Just because AR is out there? I don’t necessarily see it that way. I think the offense will be, but I see no reason to not load him up. 

Some are not understanding this. Have a feeling there will be an upset group after Thursday night. Give AR every opportunity to succeed by surrounding him with weapons. If Pittman was to miss a few weeks, it would be bad. Tbh we should draft offense the 1st and 2nd rounds. Sign a Simmons and a vet corner. 

[DougDew]

The idea of DeJean going in the late first round is due to his instincts and overall very competent play in nearly all aspects of DB play.  Cover 3 FS is more valuable, IMO, than a cover 2 FS.

 

Contrast DeJean's overall RAS and talents with Hooker, who was only good at being a single high deep guy...especially his rookie year where he picked off bad QBs for a while...and DeJean at 22 or later with a 3rd round pick gathered from a trade down is a much better decision than Hooker was at 15.   BTW, Blackmon had the same ACL injury as Hooker and did well as an overall S as a rookie, but wasn't a single high speed guy, and is probably still a better overall S now than Hooker is in DAL...both having the exact same injury years ago.

[Dobbinblitz]

37 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I think we’re probably working either a Kelly or Paye extension 

Yep

Yeah, could very well be. I think I remember Ballard said he did it to have more flexibility when asked.

if it is Paye, I would rather see him play out the year before extending.

[Two_pound]

Our defense will never be GREAT as long as we play * defense by having corners 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 3. And an unbelievable unwillingness to blitz more than 4 times a game. And also, it doesn't matter who is in the secondary if the front seven can't stop the run(we can) and get to the passer(we did ok getting to the passer, but we need more blitzing from lb'ers). Our first pick should be an offensive lineman like Fuaga, Powers-Johnson, or Barton. Then target a receiver like Polk, Pearsall, Washington, Corley, or Roman Wilson in the second or third rounds. As much as I would like to get Bowers I just don't see it happening. And we need a very good linebacker to go along with Speed and Franklin.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Two_pound said:

Our defense will never be GREAT as long as we play * defense by having corners 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 3. And an unbelievable unwillingness to blitz more than 4 times a game. And also, it doesn't matter who is in the secondary if the front seven can't stop the run(we can) and get to the passer(we did ok getting to the passer, but we need more blitzing from lb'ers). Our first pick should be an offensive lineman like Fuaga, Powers-Johnson, or Barton. Then target a receiver like Polk, Pearsall, Washington, Corley, or Roman Wilson in the second or third rounds. As much as I would like to get Bowers I just don't see it happening. And we need a very good linebacker to go along with Speed and Franklin.

 

I agree. The defense needs a change in coaching before investing big over the offense. The offense is on the right track under Steichen, especially if AR pops off this year and shows growth/ability to stay healthy. I really like Barton, especially with his versatility and ability to play immediately, imo. I also think we can get him by trading back and acquiring another day 2 pick, which would make it easier to double on offense. However, if Bowers is there, I would be perfectly fine seeing us take him at 15, and still taking a receiver at 46. That could really do wonders for the depth of pass catchers for this offense, and give Steichen a lot of flexibility to do things, depending on what the receiver looked like. If not Bowers, then a solid receiver paired with a runningback later in the draft that is a strong pass catcher and can even split out would be nice. Just give Steichen options with explosive players, and more depth on the o-line for AR's protection. That's what I ultimately hope for.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

The idea of DeJean going in the late first round is due to his instincts and overall very competent play in nearly all aspects of DB play.  Cover 3 FS is more valuable, IMO, than a cover 2 FS.

 

Contrast DeJean's overall RAS and talents with Hooker, who was only good at being a single high deep guy...especially his rookie year where he picked off bad QBs for a while...and DeJean at 22 or later with a 3rd round pick gathered from a trade down is a much better decision than Hooker was at 15.   BTW, Blackmon had the same ACL injury as Hooker and did well as an overall S as a rookie, but wasn't a single high speed guy, and is probably still a better overall S now than Hooker is in DAL...both having the exact same injury years ago.

“Blackmon better than Hooker.”
 

“The exact same injury.”

 

”picked off bad quarterbacks for a while.”

 

Wow!   Wow!   And wow!

 

After a few days away you’re back with a bang!    Those are eye popping and jaw dropping viewpoints.      
 

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

that’s not what has been reported. They are one of the  teams that view him as a corner. Maybe that is why he has a 1st round grade on their board, whereas at free safety, maybe he doesn’t. 

Actually, I think the Colts would have him rated higher as a safety than a corner. He is a typical zone corner, any those start coming off the board in the 2nd. He is probably seen as the highest rated safety even though he played mostly of career as a corner. It isca weak safety drafted, so he could come off the board in the 1st. 

 

[tweezy32]

The only reason why I wouldn’t want to trade up and give up a 1st next year for whatever scenario there is, is because we are 1 AR injury away again from having a top pick next year. Yeah we Flacco but we still won’t do anything with him and our 1st will be high enough to make me question on giving it up next year. I don’t trust AR yet staying healthy 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Actually, I think the Colts would have him rated higher as a safety than a corner. He is a typical zone corner, any those start coming off the board in the 2nd. He is probably seen as the highest rated safety even though he played mostly of career as a corner. It isca weak safety drafted, so he could come off the board in the 1st. 

 

its not a very strong safety class, so I don’t doubt that he’s viewed as the top safety prospect, but there have been plenty of talk that several teams view him more as a corner. And he fits the corner mold here. His tackling is far better than what we had last year at the position. If anything he’s rated high as a versatile defender that can be moved around depending on circumstances (injuries, personnel, etc). I just don’t think they are going to view him as a safety, when he fits the defense as a corner. The biggest reason teams are calling him a safety is because of his man coverage struggles. They think he would fit better at safety in certain defenses. That doesn’t apply in Indy. He can play multiple spots here. And Chris Ballard loves versatility. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, tweezy32 said:

The only reason why I wouldn’t want to trade up and give up a 1st next year for whatever scenario there is, is because we are 1 AR injury away again from having a top pick next year. Yeah we Flacco but we still won’t do anything with him and our 1st will be high enough to make me question on giving it up next year. I don’t trust AR yet staying healthy 

even with another injury, you think they are going to scrap AR and spend next years 1st on a new qb? I don’t… Ballard could be fired, but Steichen wouldn’t be, and a new gm isn’t going to rush it when they have a talented qb on roster. I think he’s going to get 3 years minimum, good chance of his entire rookie deal to show he is the future. Hope he holds up. 

[Superman]

@stitches 

 

I just noticed your profile pic. It's a good one. When did that happen?

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

@stitches 

 

I just noticed your profile pic. It's a good one. When did that happen?

It's been... a while. Maybe December? Or January? Not sure... but it's been months