Grover Stewart suspended six games for PED violation (merge)

[chad72]

22 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

How many years did niners  have a top pick to build that dline. Colts did not have that many top picks. Colts stayed average. Not a good comparison.

 

The Chiefs stayed average with Alex Smith for the longest time too but then they made the move from No.27 to No.10 and got Mahomes. The rest is history. Then they made good draft picks and FA signings. 

 

For passing the ball and rushing the passer/pass defense, draft picks have been relied on (Tyreek, Kelce, Rice, Chris Jones, Karlaftis, Felize Anudike, Sneed, McDuffie etc.). But for OL, just like the Bengals, Chiefs chose FA. OL requires seasoning but ROI takes time, not everyone comes ready like Big Q. Playing cornerback and skill positions, ROI comes faster, IMO. Rushing the passer also takes time because you are going against seasoned OL who know more counter moves typically.

 

To me, that should be the formula moving forward. Focus on passing the ball and secondary in pass defense, we have focused enough on OL and rushing the passer. Just my two cents based on observations around the league.

[Peter Nova]

24 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

How many years did niners  have a top pick to build that dline. Colts did not have that many top picks. Colts stayed average. Not a good comparison.

Not as many as you think. Why are you specifically talking about the Niners D-Line? That team is loaded at the skill positions and has a solid roster,  It's a big reason the Niners under Lynch,  have gone deep in post season play regularly and almost won a SB with game managers at QB.

 

I think it's a great comparison, because both Lynch and Ballard became GMs the same season, while taking over dumpster fires. 

 

 

[life long]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

The leaders of the team are the same. And it's not one player. Ryan Kelly was the one that lied to Zak Keefer about being vaccinated. Leonard was another vocal leader... There was a reason this team was the least vaccinated team in the league. It was not just Wentz. 

Again professional athletes get caught using steroids regularly. Those are individual decisions. Again I think you are grasping at straws for this narrative. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Nope

That sounds like the Colts could pick up some more cap space from this mess.  Right?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

That sounds like the Colts could pick up some more cap space from this mess.  Right?

Maybe around 3 million. That’s the salary he will lose.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Players should be allowed to take any supplements that give them more ability on the field. If everyone is doing it no one is getting an edge. 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Peter Nova said:

The Grover incident is a clear indication there are some leadership issues within the organization.  

 

I disagree. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, RollerColt said:

And sometimes you have to move on from a good man because sometimes change is a necessity. There's a fine line between being patient and being aggressive, and I generally feel Irsay walks that line well. He only steps in when it's absolutely needed. 

 

I think Chris will be tied to Shane and will therefore be with us for a while. I don't see Irsay going the same route as 2017 where the new GM has a leftover coach. 

 

No real disagreement here. 

 

And sometimes I randomly think about the Chargers and how long Tom Telesco has been the GM over there, and they haven't done much of anything. After this season, he'll probably be hiring his fourth HC. Some owners are far more patient than the fans could ever understand.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

How many years did niners  have a top pick to build that dline. Colts did not have that many top picks. Colts stayed average. Not a good comparison.

 

That explains Buckner (not drafted by Lynch, and he's now with the Colts, so...), Armstead, Bosa.

 

It doesn't really work when we're talking about McCaffrey, Deebo, Warner, Trent Williams, Kittle, Aiyuk, etc. The Niners have done a better job of building their roster, simply put. 

[Defjamz26]

When I hear this I think back to what Chad Johnson said. These players that spends thousands of dollars on their bodies and put all these substances in their body are doing to much. Chad told Brandon Marshall on his podcast that he ate McDonalds every day and never had an injury and could run with the best of them.  Or Marshawn Lynch who would just take a shot of Henny before every game.

 

It kind of reminds of the “Michael’s secret stuff” thing from the Space Jam movie. These athletes convince themselves they need to do all this crazy stuff to their body to be the best when all you need to do is be good at your craft and regularly workout.  Extremely disappointed in Stewart.

[RollerColt]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No real disagreement here. 

 

And sometimes I randomly think about the Chargers and how long Tom Telesco has been the GM over there, and they haven't done much of anything. After this season, he'll probably be hiring his fourth HC. Some owners are far more patient than the fans could ever understand.

The Bengals held on to Marvin Lewis for a long time as well. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

31 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That explains Buckner (not drafted by Lynch, and he's now with the Colts, so...), Armstead, Bosa.

 

It doesn't really work when we're talking about McCaffrey, Deebo, Warner, Trent Williams, Kittle, Aiyuk, etc. The Niners have done a better job of building their roster, simply put. 

They have also had a lot of luck at QB. Shanahan and that organization deserves a lot of credit building that system around their QB and having success with who ever was in there. I mean having a 7th round last pick of the draft QB look like a mvp is just really lucky. If they weren’t lucky and good at putting the QB in a good position wouldn’t of mattered what the rest of the roster looked like. Sometimes you just get lucky. Very rare what SF has done with all these QB. 

[Moosejawcolt]

16 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

How is Richardson getting hurt and Grover ingesting something he shouldn’t Ballards fault. What if a new GM came in and didn’t like Richardson.

Its not his fault. It just seems that his tenure as GM has not been productive and at this point there is a dark cloud over this team.  I just want a fresh start with a new GM. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

He got beat up for the performance of our #2 corner (when we had a shutdown guy on the other side) and a couple of interior lineman (when we had an excellent LT).  RG took a lot of attacks over having average players in positions that didn't matter, meanwhile, having a QB, LT, #1 and #2 WRs, an EDGE, and a shutdown corner.  Yes, he inherited some of those, and all GMs have legitimate bad decisions, but attacking him over Samson Satele, Mike Magoo, Greg Toler, and Erik Walden seemed like unjustified attacks to me.

 

Compare that roster to the Corners, Edges, and WRs we have now and the attacks seem even more petty.  And look at how much investing money into the interior oline, (what Grigs was mainly criticized for not doing), has gotten us closer to the SB.  Its been 7 years, and I'm still waiting to see proper talent at the positions that matter.

 

I don't want to relitigate Ryan Grigson, but I think this is revisionist, at best. Grigson was criticized because he built a bad roster under mostly favorable conditions. His plan was to build around an awesome QB that he lucked into, and after his first year, almost every button Grigson pushed was a mistake. Especially the high stakes decisions. Reasonable people would have been forgiving over questionable decisions like Satele, Toler, etc., if he had hit on more draft picks, or made better FA signings. He was bad at both.

 

After several years, I looked at Grigson's body of work and came to the conclusion that he was not a good GM, and that conclusion has only been reinforced with more time. You're defending Grigson to this day.

 

But you were immediately critical of Ballard, and that has not changed. You took a victory lap on the Malik Hooker pick, even though his career was undermined by injury. You say Ballard building the OL hasn't gotten the team closer to winning a SB, but you don't see the irony in that stance when Grigson failed to build the OL around a franchise QB, which Ballard has not had the benefit of having (partly because of Grigson's failure). You're assigning blame to Ballard because you think he didn't properly account for injury potential with Richardson. Ballard has had mostly unfavorable conditions, since Day 1.

 

And while I like Ballard and think he has good qualities, I'm saying I think he needs to put some numbers on the board. Not sure where anyone is praising Ballard.

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Checkmate

[Superman]

25 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

They have also had a lot of luck at QB. Shanahan and that organization deserves a lot of credit building that system around their QB and having success with who ever was in there. I mean having a 7th round last pick of the draft QB look like a mvp is just really lucky. If they weren’t lucky and good at putting the QB in a good position wouldn’t of mattered what the rest of the roster looked like. Sometimes you just get lucky. Very rare what SF has done with all these QB. 

 

They have had bad luck at QB. They traded a 2nd rounder for Garappolo, who got hurt right away. They've had to start guys like Nick Mullens and CJ Beathard for something like 30 games. They traded up for Trey Lance, who got hurt right away.

 

Then they got a break with Brock Purdy, and he got hurt in the playoffs. 

[throwing BBZ]

Franklin will miss Grover more than anyone.

[sb41champs]

20 hours ago, jskinnz said:

Meanwhile back on planet earth. 

The NFLPA takes on cases like this all the time.

 

Grover Stewart posted that he didn't know that he was using something that was a PED.  Hence my comment.  The NFL & NFLPA have lists of banned substances - but - every year more and more get added.

 

I HOPE that the NFLPA will at least take a look at this case - here on planet Earth!!

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I don't want to relitigate Ryan Grigson, but I think this is revisionist, at best. Grigson was criticized because he built a bad roster under mostly favorable conditions. His plan was to build around an awesome QB that he lucked into, and after his first year, almost every button Grigson pushed was a mistake. Especially the high stakes decisions. Reasonable people would have been forgiving over questionable decisions like Satele, Toler, etc., if he had hit on more draft picks, or made better FA signings. He was bad at both.

 

After several years, I looked at Grigson's body of work and came to the conclusion that he was not a good GM, and that conclusion has only been reinforced with more time. You're defending Grigson to this day.

 

But you were immediately critical of Ballard, and that has not changed. You took a victory lap on the Malik Hooker pick, even though his career was undermined by injury. You say Ballard building the OL hasn't gotten the team closer to winning a SB, but you don't see the irony in that stance when Grigson failed to build the OL around a franchise QB, which Ballard has not had the benefit of having (partly because of Grigson's failure). You're assigning blame to Ballard because you think he didn't properly account for injury potential with Richardson. Ballard has had mostly unfavorable conditions, since Day 1.

 

And while I like Ballard and think he has good qualities, I'm saying I think he needs to put some numbers on the board. Not sure where anyone is praising Ballard.

You’re spending a lot of bandwidth describing what I thought back then. 
 

Satele/Shipley.  Werner. Toler. Walden. Filling the oline with vet free agents the salary cap allowed us to afford. Who got luck killed lol. Trying to give luck weapons instead of rookie blockers.  
 

Many attacks on specific rg decisions were way off base and were kind of nitpicky, IMO .  And because I mentioned  how baseless they were while not joining in on those attacks gets read as a defense of everything the man did.  It did then and it still does to this day

 

i knew nothing of Ballard.  The hooker and Nelson valuations and picks dissipated any potential love for the guy then.  I’m not biased. I’ve never called for moving on like some others   I’m just still waiting after 7 years to find something to love about him.

 

except finally addressing the lt position  

[Superman]

11 hours ago, stitches said:

It's not a "problem in the locker room" in the traditional sense. But there is a distinct lack of positive leadership IMO. All on their own those things might not mean much and are more about personal responsibility, but when they start piling up and when you have problem after problem after problem with players that impact your ability to compete in the league, IMO there is something lacking. 

 

This strikes me as a little sensational, but it definitely seems like every time things are starting to come together, something bad happens.

 

But I don't look at Rodgers or Grover as a leadership issue.

[Superman]

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Many attacks on specific rg decisions

 

Do you think that it's reasonable to characterize your criticism of the Hooker pick as an attack? 

[ShuteAt168]

Ballard is 48-55-1. Colts will likely have a losing record this season and not make the playoffs again. So we would then be heading into Ballard’s EIGHTH season with what to show for it? I’ll tell you what — squa*! I feel like we could be here four years from now with no playoff wins and some of you guys would still be saying “yeah but Luck” and “yeah but AR got hurt.” Each his own, but I think CB has shown what he is — a mediocre GM. Let’s aim higher while I’m still upright. 

[jskinnz]

2 hours ago, sb41champs said:

The NFLPA takes on cases like this all the time.

 

Grover Stewart posted that he didn't know that he was using something that was a PED.  Hence my comment.  The NFL & NFLPA have lists of banned substances - but - every year more and more get added.

 

I HOPE that the NFLPA will at least take a look at this case - here on planet Earth!!

1) Everyone who gets busted for PEDs swears they did not know whatever they took was banned. 
 

2) The NFLPA may take up the case but they are fighting a losing battle and they know it. When was the last time there was a successful PED suspension overturned?  
 

Stewart is gone for 6 games and the likelihood of that changing is extremely low. 

[husker61]

7 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

If you hit on the right QB, and that QB is kept upright, good things generally happen to those teams.

 

The GM can have all the good supporting pieces but until that QB arrives, the team doesn't take that next step. Yes, some key FA moves are needed to bolster the support for the QB too.

 

Seahawks before and after RW for the first few years, Bengals after Burrow for the first few years (though they added the most via FA), Chiefs before and after Mahomes, Bills before and after Allen are all examples. If the Texans succeed with Stroud to win this division over the Jaguars, that would be just another addition to that point. Not earth shattering by any means, having a good franchise QB leading to winning football.

exactly my point! I said it in another thread, but didn’t want to repeat myself.

[husker61]

7 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

The Chiefs stayed average with Alex Smith for the longest time too but then they made the move from No.27 to No.10 and got Mahomes. The rest is history. Then they made good draft picks and FA signings. 

 

For passing the ball and rushing the passer/pass defense, draft picks have been relied on (Tyreek, Kelce, Rice, Chris Jones, Karlaftis, Felize Anudike, Sneed, McDuffie etc.). But for OL, just like the Bengals, Chiefs chose FA. OL requires seasoning but ROI takes time, not everyone comes ready like Big Q. Playing cornerback and skill positions, ROI comes faster, IMO. Rushing the passer also takes time because you are going against seasoned OL who know more counter moves typically.

 

To me, that should be the formula moving forward. Focus on passing the ball and secondary in pass defense, we have focused enough on OL and rushing the passer. Just my two cents based on observations around the league.

the colts have not gotten the pass rusher though, that’s where I wanted them to go the draft.

[husker61]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

When I hear this I think back to what Chad Johnson said. These players that spends thousands of dollars on their bodies and put all these substances in their body are doing to much. Chad told Brandon Marshall on his podcast that he ate McDonalds every day and never had an injury and could run with the best of them.  Or Marshawn Lynch who would just take a shot of Henny before every game.

 

It kind of reminds of the “Michael’s secret stuff” thing from the Space Jam movie. These athletes convince themselves they need to do all this crazy stuff to their body to be the best when all you need to do is be good at your craft and regularly workout.  Extremely disappointed in Stewart.

lawrence Taylor did everything that you would think was bad for your body and it didn’t matter. A freak athletics is a freak athlete nothing will change that.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

The Chiefs stayed average with Alex Smith for the longest time too but then they made the move from No.27 to No.10 and got Mahomes. The rest is history. Then they made good draft picks and FA signings. 

 

For passing the ball and rushing the passer/pass defense, draft picks have been relied on (Tyreek, Kelce, Rice, Chris Jones, Karlaftis, Felize Anudike, Sneed, McDuffie etc.). But for OL, just like the Bengals, Chiefs chose FA. OL requires seasoning but ROI takes time, not everyone comes ready like Big Q. Playing cornerback and skill positions, ROI comes faster, IMO. Rushing the passer also takes time because you are going against seasoned OL who know more counter moves typically.

 

To me, that should be the formula moving forward. Focus on passing the ball and secondary in pass defense, we have focused enough on OL and rushing the passer. Just my two cents based on observations around the league.

The chiefs were a playoff team. I don’t think that’s average. To me average if a win or two away from playoffs.

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Do you think that it's reasonable to characterize your criticism of the Hooker pick as an attack? 

No.  I would characterize that as a difference of opinion. But. It would depend upon how it was worded
 

I’m saying that folks would go to the mat attacking Samson satele and mike magoo etc like it was some injustice rhay were here and ignored the talent at more important positions.   Some of which grigsy inherited

 

overall.  I’d say that I like the gigsy teams better than ballards teams.    Leaving the qb out of it because that skews the rest.  Knowing full well that grigson inherited many players. 
 

liking the construction of grigsys team does  not mean I am defending him as a gm.  It has to do with what kind of teams I think succeed in the nfl. 
 

That has always been the basis of defending anything that grigs might have done and not supporting what Ballard has done.  Not who the better gm is.  I have not ever cared about that. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No.  I would characterize that as a difference of opinion. 
 

I’m saying that folks would go to the mat discussing Samson satele and mike magoo etc like it was some injustice rhay were here and ignored the talent at more important positions.   Some of which grigsy inherited

 

overall.  I’d say that I like the gigsy teams better than ballards teams.    Leaving the qb out of it because that skews the rest.  Knowing full well that grigson inherited many players. 
 

liking the construction of grigsys team does  not mean I am defending him as a gm.  It has to do with what kind of teams I think succeed in the nfl. 
 

That has always been the basis of defending anything that grigs might have done and not supporting what Ballard has done. 

 

So you're saying it's nitpicky to be critical of the acquisition of bad players like Satele (I assume you're talking about Mike McGlynn, by the way), because those teams had AC, Mathis, and Reggie? Being critical of Grigson's bad moves is characterized as an attack.

 

But you were critical of drafting Hooker, apparently because you don't like safeties in the first round, even though he actually was a good player. And when we drafted him, we had TY, Luck, and AC at those critical positions. You're critical of him drafting Richardson, for various reasons, most of which I think are specious. But being critical of Ballard's moves is just a difference of opinion on your part.

 

It really feels like you're living on both sides of the fence here. That which you claim others did with Grigson seems awfully similar to what you do with Ballard.

 

To get back to what I originally said, we have to start seeing the product come together on the field. I think Irsay looked at the last 2-3 years and felt like Ballard was not the problem, so harping on the W/L record is pointless. I think he'll be back in 2024, but the roster needs to be significantly better. 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

So you're saying it's nitpicky to be critical of the acquisition of bad players like Satele (I assume you're talking about Mike McGlynn, by the way), because those teams had AC, Mathis, and Reggie? Being critical of Grigson's bad moves is characterized as an attack.

 

But you were critical of drafting Hooker, apparently because you don't like safeties in the first round, even though he actually was a good player. And when we drafted him, we had TY, Luck, and AC at those critical positions. You're critical of him drafting Richardson, for various reasons, most of which I think are specious. But being critical of Ballard's moves is just a difference of opinion on your part.

 

It really feels like you're living on both sides of the fence here. That which you claim others did with Grigson seems awfully similar to what you do with Ballard.

 

To get back to what I originally said, we have to start seeing the product come together on the field. I think Irsay looked at the last 2-3 years and felt like Ballard was not the problem, so harping on the W/L record is pointless. I think he'll be back in 2024, but the roster needs to be significantly better. 

I thought the tone of the criticisms of the satele and macglynn signings were mean spirited when the salary cap issue constrained how much grigson could spend on fas.  Especially when these and similar moves were said to be responsible for getting luck killed

 

to point out the facts about the salary cap constraints impacted signings and how lucks own on field play contributed to his issues was characterized as me looking for reasons to defend grigson.  When the forum culture was to blame nearly everything on grigson. 
 

the summary of hookers analysis was that he was elite at centerfield play but needed development to be a more complete player.  It was a free safety thing to a point.  But it’s also the first example of Ballard overvaluing ceiling and perhaps ras-ish compared to complete football player.  And also vontae was breaking down and I thought drafting a shut down corner like marlon Humphrey was a better use of pick 15.   So the hooker pick failed about three different ways by my count

 

Especially compared to the forum euphoria of thinking Ballard stole a player that other gms passed over, it set the stage for me to have always lagged support for Ballard compared to most.
 
I engaged you because of an implication that I didn’t care for Ballard before he got here.  Meaning I was going to be butt hurt over anybody who replaced grigson.  No

 

If the next gm made efforts to replace the aging left tackle, edge, wr, and corner that we had with grigsons teams, i would have supported him from the beginning. Its been 7 years and it looks like only one of those has been secured. 
 

I have hope for Pitt, ap, and paye,  but each looks to be a clear notch below the players we had during the grigson era.  That statement is neither a defense of grigson or an attack on Ballard.  It’s just the facts. 

[Moosejawcolt]

8 hours ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Ballard is 48-55-1. Colts will likely have a losing record this season and not make the playoffs again. So we would then be heading into Ballard’s EIGHTH season with what to show for it? I’ll tell you what — squa*! I feel like we could be here four years from now with no playoff wins and some of you guys would still be saying “yeah but Luck” and “yeah but AR got hurt.” Each his own, but I think CB has shown what he is — a mediocre GM. Let’s aim higher while I’m still upright. 

My prediction is Minshew is going to blow chunks down the stretch. It will expose this roster for what it is; severely lacking talent. Steichen brings in his own guy from the Eagles. Shanahan/Lynch scenario. However, as people say I am always wrong.

[ShuteAt168]

16 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

My prediction is Minshew is going to blow chunks down the stretch. It will expose this roster for what it is; severely lacking talent. Steichen brings in his own guy from the Eagles. Shanahan/Lynch scenario. However, as people say I am always wrong.

We can hope. I actually get a kick out of CB now. After all these years, he’s become a caricature of himself with the tight T shirts and the hair and the reminders of how darn honest he is.

   “Look, look, y’all know me. I’m a straight shooter.” 
   “Look, you guys been around me long enough, shoot, I’m gonna shoot ya straight.” 
   I’d be ok with him lying to me if it meant he’d get a WR1 or an edge rusher or a lockdown corner one of these years. 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, ShuteAt168 said:

We can hope. I actually get a kick out of CB now. After all these years, he’s become a caricature of himself with the tight T shirts and the hair and the reminders of how darn honest he is.

   “Look, look, y’all know me. I’m a straight shooter.” 
   “Look, you guys been around me long enough, shoot, I’m gonna shoot ya straight.” 
   I’d be ok with him lying to me if it meant he’d get a WR1 or an edge rusher or a lockdown corner one of these years. 

 

It's been eight years and he has not been successful in obtaining any elite talent at tose positions that u listed  in your post.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:47 PM, DougDew said:

I thought the tone of the criticisms of the satele and macglynn signings were mean spirited when the salary cap issue constrained how much grigson could spend on fas.  Especially when these and similar moves were said to be responsible for getting luck killed

 

to point out the facts about the salary cap constraints impacted signings and how lucks own on field play contributed to his issues was characterized as me looking for reasons to defend grigson.  When the forum culture was to blame nearly everything on grigson. 
 

the summary of hookers analysis was that he was elite at centerfield play but needed development to be a more complete player.  It was a free safety thing to a point.  But it’s also the first example of Ballard overvaluing ceiling and perhaps ras-ish compared to complete football player.  And also vontae was breaking down and I thought drafting a shut down corner like marlon Humphrey was a better use of pick 15.   So the hooker pick failed about three different ways by my count

 

Especially compared to the forum euphoria of thinking Ballard stole a player that other gms passed over, it set the stage for me to have always lagged support for Ballard compared to most.
 
I engaged you because of an implication that I didn’t care for Ballard before he got here.  Meaning I was going to be butt hurt over anybody who replaced grigson.  No

 

If the next gm made efforts to replace the aging left tackle, edge, wr, and corner that we had with grigsons teams, i would have supported him from the beginning. Its been 7 years and it looks like only one of those has been secured. 
 

I have hope for Pitt, ap, and paye,  but each looks to be a clear notch below the players we had during the grigson era.  That statement is neither a defense of grigson or an attack on Ballard.  It’s just the facts. 

It just blows me away how people can support him almost 8 years ias the GM of the Colts. He will be well under 500 as a GM but for some odd reason, he gets a pass. I just don't get it. Now that Mishew is the starter, I honestly think we will win about 2 of our remaining games. It will expose this roster snd hopefully the nail in the coffin. I stick my prediction that Ballard will be gone and Steichen brings in a guy from Philly.

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/18/2023 at 6:47 PM, DougDew said:

I thought the tone of the criticisms of the satele and macglynn signings were mean spirited when the salary cap issue constrained how much grigson could spend on fas.  Especially when these and similar moves were said to be responsible for getting luck killed

 

to point out the facts about the salary cap constraints impacted signings and how lucks own on field play contributed to his issues was characterized as me looking for reasons to defend grigson.  When the forum culture was to blame nearly everything on grigson. 
 

the summary of hookers analysis was that he was elite at centerfield play but needed development to be a more complete player.  It was a free safety thing to a point.  But it’s also the first example of Ballard overvaluing ceiling and perhaps ras-ish compared to complete football player.  And also vontae was breaking down and I thought drafting a shut down corner like marlon Humphrey was a better use of pick 15.   So the hooker pick failed about three different ways by my count

 

Especially compared to the forum euphoria of thinking Ballard stole a player that other gms passed over, it set the stage for me to have always lagged support for Ballard compared to most.
 
I engaged you because of an implication that I didn’t care for Ballard before he got here.  Meaning I was going to be butt hurt over anybody who replaced grigson.  No

 

If the next gm made efforts to replace the aging left tackle, edge, wr, and corner that we had with grigsons teams, i would have supported him from the beginning. Its been 7 years and it looks like only one of those has been secured. 
 

I have hope for Pitt, ap, and paye,  but each looks to be a clear notch below the players we had during the grigson era.  That statement is neither a defense of grigson or an attack on Ballard.  It’s just the facts. 

Doug…..     a question for you.   I was here as a member back in the Grigson years.   What were the constraints from the salary cap back then?   I don’t recall them.   I remember Grigson tried to blame Luck’s upcoming second contract as a reason he couldn’t afford to sign better free agents.  But aside from that I don’t recall any salary cap constraints.   Can you refresh my memory please?    
 

Thanks.   
 

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Doug…..     a question for you.   I was here as a member back in the Grigson years.   What were the constraints from the salary cap back then?   I don’t recall them.   I remember Grigson tried to blame Luck’s upcoming second contract as a reason he couldn’t afford to sign better free agents.  But aside from that I don’t recall any salary cap constraints.   Can you refresh my memory please?    
 

Thanks.   
 

That was later in his tenure.   I was talking about early on when he signed the center and guard he was fighting the dead cap hits from some of the polian players.   I want to say bracket and kelvin hayden among some others   
 

He won exec of the year but then the fans seemed to quickly sour and blamed the oline. He drafted a c and g and they didn’t work out either.  And signed cherilous who got injured
 

Other moves didn’t work out    But I thought the criticisms were more of the typical whipping boy forum atmosphere that seems to alway pick out one person as the blame for everything. I guess the guy at the top is an easy target but there are more reasons for failures than that

 

In addition to being called grigsons son, I’ve  also been called a Frank apologist   I guess I always say things that look like I’m defending actions when I’m really just pointing out the stupidity of some of the attacks.  

[RollerColt]

Not going to lie, I legit thought Ballard was done last year. The fact that Irsay took control of everything led me to believe Chris was no longer making the decisions and therefore was finished. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Why is Ballard being questioned when we are 3-3. 

[shasta519]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:01 PM, Superman said:

 

I don't want to relitigate Ryan Grigson, but I think this is revisionist, at best. Grigson was criticized because he built a bad roster under mostly favorable conditions. His plan was to build around an awesome QB that he lucked into, and after his first year, almost every button Grigson pushed was a mistake. Especially the high stakes decisions. Reasonable people would have been forgiving over questionable decisions like Satele, Toler, etc., if he had hit on more draft picks, or made better FA signings. He was bad at both.

 

After several years, I looked at Grigson's body of work and came to the conclusion that he was not a good GM, and that conclusion has only been reinforced with more time. You're defending Grigson to this day.

 

But you were immediately critical of Ballard, and that has not changed. You took a victory lap on the Malik Hooker pick, even though his career was undermined by injury. You say Ballard building the OL hasn't gotten the team closer to winning a SB, but you don't see the irony in that stance when Grigson failed to build the OL around a franchise QB, which Ballard has not had the benefit of having (partly because of Grigson's failure). You're assigning blame to Ballard because you think he didn't properly account for injury potential with Richardson. Ballard has had mostly unfavorable conditions, since Day 1.

 

And while I like Ballard and think he has good qualities, I'm saying I think he needs to put some numbers on the board. Not sure where anyone is praising Ballard.

 

Keeping this specific to Ballard, I sort of disagree with the bolded. I do agree that Ballard had some unfavorable conditions, including a bad roster. But most new GMs do as well. But beyond that, I actually think the conditions have been pretty favorable:

• Luck was injured, but he was here. And few GMs ever get to inherit a franchise QB, even an injured one.
  • Luck did come back in 2018, which is still Ballard's most successful season. 
  • Luck retiring was clearly unfavorable, but it really just created a normal scenario for most GMs who have to address QB, instead of some extraordinarily unfavorable condition. And it bought Ballard a very long leash.
• Luck being hurt and missing 2017 was actually favorable, as it not only gave Ballard a rebuilding year, instead of immediate pressure to succeed...and it led to a top 3 pick in a QB-heavy 2018 draft. To his credit, Ballard was able to take advantage of that situation and turn it into the #6 pick and (3) R2 picks. But that was a massive advantage to accelerate the rebuild.
  • If Ballard didn't have Luck on the roster, QBs like Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen could be punchlines around here...and Ballard could be Director of Football Operations for another team. Instead, he was able to build his reputation on that draft and has been able to hold onto it for several years, despite the mediocre results of this team (and more recent drafts).
• Ballard inherited a good cap situation. It was his decision to not spend it for the first few years, but cap space was not an issue when he took over.
• Ballard has a very patient boss, as we have seen.

All in all, I think Ballard has had it pretty good. And it's allowed him to likely be in this job for a decade without much success. Some of the stuff is out of his control, but a lot of the issues with this team and roster are self-inflicted by the braintrust. JMO.