OTA news / mandatory mini camp news

[GoColts8818]

30 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I love Nelson but if he doesn't perform well this year, it could be like Andrew Norwell from a few years back-time to move one.  3 years in a row of bad play for elite money is not acceptable.  I hope he returns to form.

He just signed a new contract.  Like it or not he’s here for a little while.

[w87r]

27 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I love Nelson but if he doesn't perform well this year, it could be like Andrew Norwell from a few years back-time to move one.  3 years in a row of bad play for elite money is not acceptable.  I hope he returns to form.

He hasn't even sniffed elite money yet.

 

Only at $12.2m this season.

 

Now next year it takes a big jump, but so will the salary cap, so it won't hurt as bad. Plus QB on rookie deals, there is plenty of money for what needs done.

 

Saying that I fully expect the OL to have a good year, with new coaching and a season of Raimann strength and conditioning.

 

Hopeful optimist.

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

He just signed a new contract.  Like it or not he’s here for a little while.

At least through 2024. 

 

2025 we can get out of deal and save $10m in cap space if need be.

 

 

[compuls1v3]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Do you think Quenton Nelson was bad in 2021?

For his standards, yes.  He had 3 back surgeries, and it showed.  He was getting pushed around.  This year will really tell me if he gets back to form, or if it was coaching.  I hope he does well.  I want him to succeed, as I do the team.

[compuls1v3]

42 minutes ago, w87r said:

He hasn't even sniffed elite money yet.

 

Only at $12.2m this season.

 

Now next year it takes a big jump, but so will the salary cap, so it won't hurt as bad. Plus QB on rookie deals, there is plenty of money for what needs done.

 

Saying that I fully expect the OL to have a good year, with new coaching and a season of Raimann strength and conditioning.

 

Hopeful optimist.

I am hoping for it too.  Nelson really is one of my favorite players.  However, if he doesn't play up to par, it may be time to look another direction (when the time comes).

[w87r]

1 minute ago, compuls1v3 said:

I am hoping for it too.  Nelson really is one of my favorite players.  However, if he doesn't play up to par, it may be time to look another direction (when the time comes).

There is ways to get out of it prior to next season, but I don't see it. He would have to just regress even more.

 

Pre June 1st trade:

2024 Dead Cap: $18,600,000

2024 Cap Savings: $6,600,000

 

Post June 1st trade:

2024 Dead Cap: $6,200,000

2025 Dead Cap: $12,400,000

2024 Cap Savings: $19,000,000

 

If traded his contract would look like this for new team:

2024 Cap Hit - $19.2m

2025 Cap Hit - $16.8m

2026 Cap Hit - $18m

 

 

Really don't see that happening, and am hoping for a resurgence this season like everyone else not named moosejaw. Lol.

 

I named my dog Nelson. Lol. Was Nelson or Leonard. We go with Leonard for 2nd name.

 

Nelson Leonard when he is in trouble. 

 

 

Anyway, back to previously scheduled program.

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Looks like colts are not going to release any video at all from OTA. Lol. I see other teams have media  at practice for more then one day. Wonder why colts are limiting it to one day.

If it were me, I wouldn’t have any media days. Rookie QB already has enough pressure and will be nitpicked already, why add to it this early

[csmopar]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Do you think Quenton Nelson was bad in 2021?

No but he was in 2022

[Nadine]

A personal argument that included name calling was removed from this thread

Nobody wants to have to scroll through your personal spats so please don't post them

Baiting and taking bait and liking posts that name call are all part of the problem so, there were several people here who contributed to a thread derail

 

Please just use report/ignore/personal message to flag issue and work out differences.  Otherwise, it's just obnoxious for everyone

[Indyfan4life]

Always tickles me when someone bad mouths Nelson and wants him gone.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 hours ago, Nadine said:

A personal argument that included name calling was removed from this thread

Nobody wants to have to scroll through your personal spats so please don't post them

Baiting and taking bait and liking posts that name call are all part of the problem so, there were several people here who contributed to a thread derail

 

Please just use report/ignore/personal message to flag issue and work out differences.  Otherwise, it's just obnoxious for everyone

I missed it  and to think it is only OTA's 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Always tickles me when someone bad mouths Nelson and wants him gone.

There are a few in here that never wanted Nelson in the 1st place. It stems from that IMO, they want to see him fail so they can say 'I told you so', SMH. 

[Indyfan4life]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There are a few in here that never wanted Nelson in the 1st place. It stems from that IMO, they want to see him fail so they can say 'I told you so', SMH. 

That's probably true. Those who want him gone would be so happy until the oline was even worse. Then they'd blame Ballard for getting rid of him.

[w87r]

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/lists/indianapolis-colts-otas-takeaways-notes-anthony-richardson-week-1/

 

A lot of info in there. Will just quote what is to come.

 

Quote

The Colts have two weeks left of OTA practices, which include seven sessions. They have three practices May 31-June 2 followed by four practices June 5-8. The media will be permitted to view one practice per week before mandatory minicamp arrives June 13 to wrap up the spring workouts.

 

[1959Colts]

On 5/26/2023 at 7:04 PM, compuls1v3 said:

For his standards, yes.  He had 3 back surgeries, and it showed.  He was getting pushed around.  This year will really tell me if he gets back to form, or if it was coaching.  I hope he does well.  I want him to succeed, as I do the team.

I thought Nelson looked fatter than he did in seasons past. My belief is he was not in top shape.

After the season was over, I remember him saying in an interview, that he would make sure he improves for the following year.

[DougDew]

17 hours ago, 1959Colts said:

I thought Nelson looked fatter than he did in seasons past. My belief is he was not in top shape.

After the season was over, I remember him saying in an interview, that he would make sure he improves for the following year.

Yes.  Nelson was quoted as saying about his performance...something like " I need to change the way I approach things"  Meaning:

 

1. No, it wasn't the injury excuse narrative.

2. No, it wasn't the coaching (Frank/Strausser) excuse narrative.

3. It was him, and him alone, and maybe a lack of proper professionalism.

 

[Superman]

On 5/26/2023 at 4:04 PM, compuls1v3 said:

For his standards, yes.  He had 3 back surgeries, and it showed.  He was getting pushed around.  This year will really tell me if he gets back to form, or if it was coaching.  I hope he does well.  I want him to succeed, as I do the team.

 

On 5/26/2023 at 6:44 PM, csmopar said:

No but he was in 2022

 

I asked because compuls1v3 said three bad years in a row is a problem. Going back to 2021, he was a top 10-15 OL, at worse, and he was injured. In 2022, he started out looking bad, but got better as the season went along, and I think he was above average overall.

 

I think people tend to exaggerate the standard for highly paid players. We definitely need Nelson to play better than he did last year, but I don't think anyone should be expecting him to be gone after this season. 

[gspdx]

On 5/25/2023 at 3:41 PM, w87r said:

You gonna post anything of substance, or you just here to troll and try and bait NCF?

 

Got him!

[throwing BBZ]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

I asked because compuls1v3 said three bad years in a row is a problem. Going back to 2021, he was a top 10-15 OL, at worse, and he was injured. In 2022, he started out looking bad, but got better as the season went along, and I think he was above average overall.

 

I think people tend to exaggerate the standard for highly paid players. We definitely need Nelson to play better than he did last year, but I don't think anyone should be expecting him to be gone after this season. 

 

 Nelson will be better, Raimann will be also. 

The other 3 spots I am less confident.

 Freeland getting 1st team reps now sounds good. 

 Get him ready asap.

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Nelson will be better, Raimann will be also. 

The other 3 spots I am less confident.

 Freeland getting 1st team reps now sounds good. 

 Get him ready asap.

I'm most confident in Braden. He's been the picture of consistency. In 5 years the difference between his highest and lowest PFF grade is like... 7 points(lowest was his rookie year at 73.3 and highest was 80.6).

[shasta519]

On 5/26/2023 at 3:25 PM, richard pallo said:

I was surprised he wasn’t more accurate on those throws into the netting during some of those repetitions.  He seemed upset with himself as well.  I imagine he will put in a lot of time on his own.  Practice makes perfect as they say.

 

There's the narrative and there's the film. AR is inaccurate...for the time being. That doesn't mean he won't get better (maybe even a lot better), but it's going to take a lot more than some footwork tweaks, as was the popular take. 

[throwing BBZ]

On 5/26/2023 at 7:04 PM, compuls1v3 said:

For his standards, yes.  He had 3 back surgeries, and it showed.  He was getting pushed around.  This year will really tell me if he gets back to form, or if it was coaching.  I hope he does well.  I want him to succeed, as I do the team.

 

 Anyone watching closely the last 5 games or so saw him moving very well and hammering them at a high level.

 So maybe he wasn't quite as good as he was his 1st 3+ years, he was playing at a top 5 level or better.

 Good enough that PFF today has him at #2 on their guard list. 

  So let's hope he comes back as healthy as can be considering his profession.

  

[shasta519]

On 5/26/2023 at 6:36 PM, w87r said:

He hasn't even sniffed elite money yet.

 

Only at $12.2m this season.

 

Now next year it takes a big jump, but so will the salary cap, so it won't hurt as bad. Plus QB on rookie deals, there is plenty of money for what needs done.

 

Saying that I fully expect the OL to have a good year, with new coaching and a season of Raimann strength and conditioning.

 

Hopeful optimist.

 

That's the thing...Q's contract is way backloaded. So is Leonard's for that matter. The difference is that Leonard's contract has an out after this season (which sadly I could see happening without a bounceback healthy season).

 

So to your point, Q hasn't even gotten expensive yet. And his $19M base salary for for 2024 became gtd back in March. Here are his cap hits:

 

2023 - $12.2M ($49.8 dead)

2024 - $25.2M ($37.6M dead)

2025 - $22.7M ($12.4M dead)

 

He's very likely here for at least the next 3 years, so it's a sunk cost at this point. And that's a big contract for a guy who has graded like a top 15-20 LG the past two years. Just hope he bounces back and those back surgeries didn't permanently sap his previous elite level of play.

 

As for the OL overall, it's hard to be confident after last season. Yes, Ryan was a statue, but he still got rid of the ball quick (2.69 TTR). Meanwhile, AR's Time-to-Throw was the second-highest of Power 5 QBs with 200+ PAs (3.19).

 

I don't care how much of an athlete you are, that's danger territory. That's even worse than Fields and it translated to a 14.7% sack rate for Fields.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

I'm most confident in Braden. He's been the picture of consistency. In 5 years the difference between his highest and lowest PFF grade is like... 7 points(lowest was his rookie year at 73.3 and highest was 80.6).

 

 And I'm confident he will continue to be a problem at pass blocking. 

 The reason he hasn't been a pro bowler. Go Freeland go.

[shasta519]

26 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Anyone watching closely the last 5 games or so saw him moving very well and hammering them at a high level.

 So maybe he wasn't quite as good as he was his 1st 3+ years, he was playing at a top 5 level or better.

 Good enough that PFF today has him at #2 on their guard list. 

  So let's hope he comes back as healthy as can be considering his profession.

  

 

PFF seems to be giving him the benefit of the doubt, which he has earned a bit of with his track record. But they are still being generous. Even according to their own grading system, no way he's #2 on that list. 

 

PFF grades 2020, 2021 and 2022

2. Quenton Nelson: 86.2, 69.1 and 68.4

 

3. Joel Bitonio: 84.6, 93.6 and 87.5

4. Chris Lindstrom: 77.1, 83.7 and 95.0

5. Joe Thuney: 74.2, 80.5, 77.3

6. Michael Onwenu: 84.3, 87.0 and 79.3

9. Shaq Mason: 85.4, 85.2 and 68.9 (just signed for 3/$36M)

10. Wyatt Teller: 92.7, 84.9 and 70.3 

 

He has two <70 PFF grades in the past two years. None of those other players has one. Based on the last 3 years, he's probably in that #9-10 range if we include 2020. But the past two years, he's probably in that #15-20 range.

 

And his regression coincided with having multiple surgeries. Just really hard to not have concerns going forward. But all we can do is hope for the best from him. 

[csmopar]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

I asked because compuls1v3 said three bad years in a row is a problem. Going back to 2021, he was a top 10-15 OL, at worse, and he was injured. In 2022, he started out looking bad, but got better as the season went along, and I think he was above average overall.

 

I think people tend to exaggerate the standard for highly paid players. We definitely need Nelson to play better than he did last year, but I don't think anyone should be expecting him to be gone after this season. 

I’d say the only way Nelson is cut or traded is if he just plain sucks. And even then it’ll be a stretch. 
 

 

now Kelly, well I think he’s got a shorter rope

[Superman]

39 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I’d say the only way Nelson is cut or traded is if he just plain sucks. And even then it’ll be a stretch. 
 

 

now Kelly, well I think he’s got a shorter rope

 

I agree.

[w87r]

4 hours ago, shasta519 said:

2023 - $12.2M ($49.8 dead)

2024 - $25.2M ($37.6M dead)

2025 - $22.7M ($12.4M dead)

 

He's very likely here for at least the next 3 years

I would say he has 2 years minimum. 

 

$10m cap savings in 2025 is a good recoup if we need to 

 

Can be even more with post June 1st cut 

 

POST-6/1 RELEASE

2025 Dead Cap: $6,200,000

2026 Dead Cap: $6,200,000

2025 Cap Savings: $16,563,059

 

46 minutes ago, csmopar said:

now Kelly, well I think he’s got a shorter rope

Yeah, he is on a real short leash, at least money wise.

 

Can already save nearly $8m this year

 

Next year we can save almost $12.4m 

 

Hopefully Sparano gets these guys going, and If there is any chance to bring in Norwell for cheap it will be nice 

[w87r]

3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

PFF seems to be giving him the benefit of the doubt, which he has earned a bit of with his track record. But they are still being generous. Even according to their own grading system, no way he's #2 on that list. 

 

PFF grades 2020, 2021 and 2022

2. Quenton Nelson: 86.2, 69.1 and 68.4

 

3. Joel Bitonio: 84.6, 93.6 and 87.5

4. Chris Lindstrom: 77.1, 83.7 and 95.0

5. Joe Thuney: 74.2, 80.5, 77.3

6. Michael Onwenu: 84.3, 87.0 and 79.3

9. Shaq Mason: 85.4, 85.2 and 68.9 (just signed for 3/$36M)

10. Wyatt Teller: 92.7, 84.9 and 70.3 

 

He has two <70 PFF grades in the past two years. None of those other players has one. Based on the last 3 years, he's probably in that #9-10 range if we include 2020. But the past two years, he's probably in that #15-20 range.

 

And his regression coincided with having multiple surgeries. Just really hard to not have concerns going forward. But all we can do is hope for the best from him. 

The surgeries are a concern.

 

I think that the whole OL as a whole regression is much more telling.

 

Looking forward to seeing what Sparano does with the unit this week.

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, w87r said:

I think that the whole OL as a whole regression is much more telling.

 

Looking forward to seeing what Sparano does with the unit this week.

 

This is where I don't know what to think. It's very possible that Strausser wasn't on the job in the last couple years, but the OL was still really good in 2019 and 2020, and they were good run blocking in 2021. So while it's likely that coaching played a big role in the regression, it's hard to pin the entire drop-off on the coaches. The Matt Pryor situation is shocking, he looked good in 2021 but was a mess last season, maybe due to body composition.

 

And the other part is that I don't think there's any evidence for us outsiders that Sparano is/will be a good OL coach. I like his pedigree and background, but it's his first time in this role. He might not be any good. Hopefully he's great...

 

Personnel-wise, I think we're probably okay, assuming everyone is reasonably healthy. Biggest questions are LT and RG, but Raimann came on as the season progressed, and I think Pinter has more than he showed in 2022. I'd like more competitive depth across the board, but we have a lot of young guys. 

 

The unknowns with coaching are more of a concern for me than the personnel right now. And I guess it's pretty hard for good players to make up for bad coaching, especially at OL. All it takes is one mistake by one guy, and the entire OL fails.

[w87r]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

Hopefully he's great.

That's where I'm at, just hoping that was the MAIN issue.

 

Braden regressed

Kelly regressed

Pryor fell off the earth

Pinter didn't appear to improve

 

Hard to believe that all this, is just a coincidence? Here's to hoping.

 

Raimann, Nelson, Kelly, Norwell, Smith

Freeland, Ekiyor, Pinter, Fries, Freeland

 

Seems like a pretty nice unit if so.

 

I like our young staff, son's of coaches. Time will tell but I am optimistic at this point.

[shasta519]

14 hours ago, csmopar said:

I’d say the only way Nelson is cut or traded is if he just plain sucks. And even then it’ll be a stretch. 
 

 

now Kelly, well I think he’s got a shorter rope

 

They can't really cut or trade him until 2025 anyways, due to the contract structure. It would require a huge dead cap hit and another team to be willing to take on his base salary. And even though Q has been elite in the past, I am not sure if I have ever seen a vet G traded.

[stitches]

The more interesting question about Nelson is - what kind of offer would it require for you to consider trading him? They won't cut him for at least 2 more years almost regardless of how he plays. 

[shasta519]

13 hours ago, w87r said:

That's where I'm at, just hoping that was the MAIN issue.

 

Braden regressed

Kelly regressed

Pryor fell off the earth

Pinter didn't appear to improve

 

Hard to believe that all this, is just a coincidence? Here's to hoping.

 

Raimann, Nelson, Kelly, Norwell, Smith

Freeland, Ekiyor, Pinter, Fries, Freeland

 

Seems like a pretty nice unit if so.

 

I like our young staff, son's of coaches. Time will tell but I am optimistic at this point.

 

I hope so as well. But not sure I buy that it was coaching.

 

Smith regressed a bit, but that is understandable, given he was playing next to Pinter and Fries last season. 

 

Kelly's regression had already started before last season. His 2021 season wasn't good either, despite the PB nod. This could just be his career being shortened by injuries.

 

Pryor didn't really fall off a cliff. He wasn't good in PHI. And with the Colts, he only had 94 snaps at LT in 2021. If anything, Pryor is a cautionary tale for making decisions based off small samples. But mostly, I just don't think he was ever even a good player, so his regression wasn't exactly surprising nor could it be blamed on coaching.

 

Same with Pinter. Another older OL prospect who in 3 years had not shown much outside of some solid play filling in at C for Kelly. But he had also never played RG. I just don't think you can put it on coaching that some converted TE from Ball State didn't develop into a good RG.

 

And how do you square Raimann's in-season development while Strausser was still here? 

 

I think it's as much as personnel as it was coaching. And the OL still has a lot of questions:

• A solid to very good RT who has trouble with speed
• An uninspiring R7 pick at RG
• A vet C who has been regressing for two years
• A great LG who hasn't been a great LG for two years (after having multiple surgeries)
• A soon-to-be 26 year-old 2nd year LT who people are projecting to be good next year, based off a small sample of snaps 

The only additions to the roster have been a R4 OT who has issues with change of direction and plays too high, so I doubt he's ready to make much of an impact early on...and an UDFA whose medicals were so bad that no team would even use a R7 pick on him.

 

And they are going to be starting a rookie QB. Given all of this, I would imagine the plan will be to simplify the playbook greatly so that the OL has less of a chance to create issues. Sort of like they did during last season. But that's still a risky approach. If the OL is bad this year, we will know for certain who is to blame.

 

[shasta519]

47 minutes ago, stitches said:

The more interesting question about Nelson is - what kind of offer would it require for you to consider trading him? They won't cut him for at least 2 more years almost regardless of how he plays. 

 

They would have to eat $24.8M in dead cap from his signing bonus to do it. But that money has to be accounted for anyways, whether it's all at once or over the next few years.

 

The trading team would be taking $25M gtd in base salary with them and the Colts would be done with the deal.

 

There's some value in that I guess...saving $25M. The problem is that Q is still a useful player, so even though they would save $25M, they would need to get back something decent in return.

 

But how often do vet Gs get traded?

 

The trading team would get Q for 2/$25M...and then have options for years 3 and 4. On the surface, that contract has value, but a team could have just signed Shaq Mason in FA at that AAV. Or paid less for a player like Seumolo. It's not tough to find good LGs in FA. 

 

So it would have to come down to the name recognition. I think a R1 pick is out of the question, but perhaps a R2 pick if some team really believed his recent play (especially last season) was an outlier and the medicals checked out. Given I am more pessimistic about Q than others, I would probably take it.

 

 

 

[w87r]

Today was the first day of this week's OTA's.

 

 

Wonder if media will be allowed tomorrow or Friday? One or the other.

 

Ready for some reports.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 hours ago, w87r said:

Today was the first day of this week's OTA's.

 

 

Wonder if media will be allowed tomorrow or Friday? One or the other.

 

Ready for some reports.

 

 

Friday 

[stitches]

This video was posted on Leonard's instagram story today:

 

 

[Yoshinator]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

This video was posted on Leonard's instagram story today:

 

 

Hoping he's finally fully healthy. I see LBer as a huge weakness without him.

[w87r]

23 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Friday 

Today's the day.

 

Should get some media updates at some point.

 

 

Also, 1st game of season is 100 days away from today. The count down begins.