Staying at 4th pick

[Aaron86]

49 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

But if he’s going to be great because of his attitude like you said then he should have been getting better in college unless you think he just now developed that attitude in which case that’s another major red flag.  

He played in 15 games or so. Give the kid a chance. You can't look past his athleticism especially in today's NFL. I don't think he just developed his attitude I think he has some dog in him. He reminds me of Shaq Leonard people doubted him and look what he did his rookie season. 

[Aaron86]

36 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Because Ballard probably isn’t getting two years of developing their top draft pick this year.  They need a QB now.  They don’t have a guy like Darnold or Smith who can hold the fort down for a couple of years while you try to develop Richardson unless you want to bring back Ryan.  If that’s the case you’d be better off taking a player at four who will help Ryan than drafting a QB to sit there for two years.  Ballard needs to turn things around quickly.  He’s not a new GM that’s gets the luxury of three or four years to try to turn things around.  

Irsay is not going to fire Ballard if he picks a QB and I'm sure he will give Ballard the chance to see his pick develop or at the least see his progression. Ballard will be gone if he picks anything other then a QB with the 4th pick. Unless it's the plan to wait until next year. But I can't see that happening. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Aaron86 said:

He played in 15 games or so. Give the kid a chance. You can't look past his athleticism especially in today's NFL. I don't think he just developed his attitude I think he has some dog in him. He reminds me of Shaq Leonard people doubted him and look what he did his rookie season. 

Thats why they do the interviews. I’m sure they’ll be digging more deeper than we ever could with their resources.

 

 

[Dr. T]

On 3/5/2023 at 4:52 PM, coltsfeva said:

  I know some are saying; go get “the guy” at 1 but I agree that it’s too much to give up, when I think that you could lose out on another pass rusher, blocking TE, CB or starting/backup Olineman. 

Even more important is that besides giving up second and third or fourth round picks in this years draft, we most likely we will have to give up at least one (if not two) first round picks in future drafts. We will need those picks to build our team. No way that is worth it, if there is no QB to chose this year who is heads and tails above the others.

[PRnum1]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:53 PM, Aaron86 said:

He played in 15 games or so. Give the kid a chance. You can't look past his athleticism especially in today's NFL. I don't think he just developed his attitude I think he has some dog in him. He reminds me of Shaq Leonard people doubted him and look what he did his rookie season. 

Young is my first choice because of mobility.  He won't be there at 4.

 

So I would go with Richardson too.

 

Pure accurate pocket passers are a dime a dozen in the NFL.

 

Richardson is a unicorn.

[ProblChld32]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:17 PM, AustexColt said:

Ballard spoke at the combine, as no QB really stood out. I think the Colts will settle on whoever is there at the 4th pick in the following order: Bryce, Stroud, Willis

There is a positive spin for each of them to make the Colt fanbase happy and hopeful. There is too much to lose to move up. What is going to be interesting is the FA market. Jax and Titans are releasing to get under the cap, so this is a good opportunity for Ballard to upgrade. That is what Ballard meant when he said that there will be "competition". The guys I want to extend an alert is Kenny Moore/Facyson and Ryan Kelly. Our TEs better learn to improve their blocking skills.

I wouldn’t read much into a lot of what is said. Most of this stuff is all smoke and mirrors, teams don’t want to tip their hand at what their draft plan will be. They may have fell in love with a prospect they may have not. But based on drafts in the past one thing I can certainly say is when Ballard says he has to absolutely love the prospect to warrant a trade up he means it. He has rarely traded up from what I can remember the trade up to get Nick Cross is the only noteworthy trade up I can recall. He is known for trading back and they also Truly stick to their draft board.

[ProblChld32]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:56 PM, Aaron86 said:

With the limited chance he had? He has a ton to prove. But in the right place he is going to be good. He is already breaking records. Lol

Breaking records at the combine doesn’t attribute to being able to make that translate on the field. You can have all the athleticism in the world and still be a terrible football player. 

[Fluke_33]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:26 PM, Aaron86 said:

AR is going to light it up. There is something about his attitude. The guy wants to be the best. If he puts the time in he will be the best in this draft. And I hope the Colts pick him and he proves everyone wrong.

I love the kid but i watched a breakdown of his game against Tennessee and his accuracy was atrocious.  I hope he proves everyone wrong too though.

[Aaron86]

5 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

Breaking records at the combine doesn’t attribute to being able to make that translate on the field. You can have all the athleticism in the world and still be a terrible football player. 

The kid is going to be good. He has the drive and mindset you want in a QB.

6 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

I love the kid but i watched a breakdown of his game against Tennessee and his accuracy was atrocious.  I hope he proves everyone wrong too though.

I think he just needs good coaching and time. 

[MikeCurtis]

On 3/5/2023 at 4:56 PM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

No one will care what we give up if we start winning and win a SB. You think chiefs Carr what they have up for mahomes or bills with Allen? You fill draft picks lost with FA.

Trading up does not guarantee ANYTHING nor does top pick guarantee as well

For every consistent pro bowl QB there has to be 3-4failures

Looking at top 2 QBs in each draft

Lets Look at 2015 WINSTON. MAROTTA.  2 boos

lets look at 2016 Wentz Goff 2 Meh

lets look at 2017 Trubiski Boo. Mahomes. Rah

lets look at 2018  Mayfield Darnold BOO

lets look at 2019  Murray. Jones Good

Let’s look at 2020 Burrow Herbert Good

 

It’s a crapshoot. 
 

giving 3 years of first round picks is just not bright IMHO 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, MikeCurtis said:

Trading up does not guarantee ANYTHING nor does top 3 pick guarantee as well

For every consistent pro bowl QB there has to be 5 failures

Looking at top 2 QBs in each draft

Lets Look at 2015 WINSTON. MAROTTA.  2 boos

lets look at 2016 Wentz Goff 2 Meh

lets look at 2017 Trubiski Boo. Mahomes. Rah

lets look at 2018  Mayfield Darnold BOO

lets look at 2019  Murray. Jones Good

Let’s look at 2020 Burrow Herbert Good

 

It’s a crapshoot. 

Would rather go down swinging by giving up draft picks for the guy you really want or go down  swinging settling on left overs.

[tfunky14]

On 3/5/2023 at 6:46 PM, Indyfan4life said:

Not quite. The writing was on the wall about Smith’s replacement, and Reid wanted a mobile QB. Chicago made the blunder thinking Trubisky was the correct pick after one season. Is every rookie QB REALLY a project though? Were we calling Elway/Luck/Manning a project? Levis is NOT the answer, and neither is Richardson. 

All 4 of the top QBs in this year's draft are projects and need a supporting cast around them to succeed.  There is no Elway/Manning in it. That player comes around every 7-10 years. 

[tfunky14]

On 3/5/2023 at 7:22 PM, Indyfan4life said:

Which to me says it’s FAR less of a risk getting Stroud or Young. 

Stroud and Young had top O-Linemen giving them all day during their games.  I'm not sold on them handling pressure yet either. 

[Indyfan4life]

Just now, tfunky14 said:

All 4 of the top QBs in this year's draft are projects and need a supporting cast around them to succeed.  There is no Elway/Manning in it. That player comes around every 7-10 years. 

That’s not what I said. I said you can’t say “ALL ROOKIES” are projects, then call others generational talents. Of course they need a supporting cast to succeed. It isn’t just a QB on the field by himself. 

[Indyfan4life]

3 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

Stroud and Young had top O-Linemen giving them all day during their games.  I'm not sold on them handling pressure yet either. 

They handle pressure a hell of a lot better than Levis and Richardson do. 

[throwing BBZ]

10 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Trading up does not guarantee ANYTHING nor does top pick guarantee as well

For every consistent pro bowl QB there has to be 3-4failures

Looking at top 2 QBs in each draft

Lets Look at 2015 WINSTON. MAROTTA.  2 boos

lets look at 2016 Wentz Goff 2 Meh

lets look at 2017 Trubiski Boo. Mahomes. Rah

lets look at 2018  Mayfield Darnold BOO

lets look at 2019  Murray. Jones Good

Let’s look at 2020 Burrow Herbert Good

 

It’s a crapshoot. 
 

giving 3 years of first round picks is just not bright IMHO 

 

If you expected to be drafting in the 20's perhaps, and for a Superior prospect. We need to be drafting at least at 3, and that would leave us picking Richardson or Levis. I believe. 

 My bet Today is Carolina drafts #1.

[tfunky14]

2 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

They handle pressure a hell of a lot better than Levis and Richardson do. 

Your insight in how they do that?

[DougDew]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:11 PM, chad72 said:

Thats why they do the interviews. I’m sure they’ll be digging more deeper than we ever could with their resources.

 

 

But AR has yet to display that he can throw an NFL quality out pattern on a consistent basis.  Both on tape and at the Combine.   Inaccuracies with that throw can lead to not converting first downs or pick 6s. 

 

 Its really a horrible thing to not be able to perform at this stage.  The deep ball means nothing if you can't throw a 7 yard out....the offense won't be on the field long enough.

 

And the idea that its just a footwork thing than can be corrected in TC or throughout his rookie season is a big gamble.

 

GMs certainly base their value on a ceiling, but my goodness, there is a reason players play college ball, and that it to learn the skills it takes to move to the next level.  It can't all be based on projected ceiling.

[GoColts8818]

20 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

Young is my first choice because of mobility.  He won't be there at 4.

 

So I would go with Richardson too.

 

Pure accurate pocket passers are a dime a dozen in the NFL.

 

Richardson is a unicorn.

Being extremely athletic does you no good in the NFL at QB if you don’t have high level skills at the other aspects of being QB which is the question about Richardson.  All the combine did was confirm what was already known about him.  His athletic skills are off the chart.  It did nothing to answer the questions that existed around him that have people questioning if he can be a NFL QB.  If he had those skills he’d be the most sought after prospect in a long time and the Bears would be saying Fields who?  The fact he’s yet to show he has those skills has teams wondering if he ever will and those aren’t the kinds of guys you gamble your franchise on, especially if you don’t have another QB he can sit behind for a couple of years while you try to develop him to even get him in the field. 

[Stephen]

3 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

They handle pressure a hell of a lot better than Levis and Richardson do. 

Richardson was one of the best at avoiding sacks. Levis made nice throws with defenders barreling into his chest. Levis isnt as good at avoiding sacks though. Young handles pressure well as often he uses legs to evade defenders and buy time. Then he makes mahomes and rodgers like plays. Stroud did well at evading pressure in the Geirgia game. Not sure where all the negative narritives are coming from

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

Richardson was one of the best at avoiding sacks. Levis made nice throws with defenders barreling into his chest. Levis isnt as good at avoiding sacks though. Young handles pressure well as often he uses legs to evade defenders and buy time. Then he makes mahomes and rodgers like plays. Stroud did well at evading pressure in the Geirgia game. Not sure where all the negative narritives are coming from

The question about Stroud is is he the QB from the Georgia game and was the Michigan game just a fluke or is he the QB from the Michigan game and was the Georgia game a fluke?

[Stephen]

33 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But AR has yet to display that he can throw an NFL quality out pattern on a consistent basis.  Both on tape and at the Combine.   Inaccuracies with that throw can lead to not converting first downs or pick 6s. 

 

 Its really a horrible thing to not be able to perform at this stage.  The deep ball means nothing if you can't throw a 7 yard out....the offense won't be on the field long enough.

 

And the idea that its just a footwork thing than can be corrected in TC or throughout his rookie season is a big gamble.

 

GMs certainly base their value on a ceiling, but my goodness, there is a reason players play college ball, and that it to learn the skills it takes to move to the next level.  It can't all be based on projected ceiling.

Hence why you play  to his strengths. Richardson is better at the deep and mid ranged stuff. So you use that until he gets better at the outs. It is a mechanics thing and can be cleaned up by good coaching. If they play up you go deep if they play back richardson and taylor eats them alive on the ground.

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

The question about Stroud is is he the QB from the Georgia game and was the Michigan game just a fluke or is he the QB from the Michigan game and was the Georgia game a fluke?

Depends on where he lands with us he would be the georgia guy

[Indyfan4life]

56 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

Your insight in how they do that?

Idk. Maybe by watching games and seeing how each QB broke down coverage and blitzes at the line? Levis likes to stand in the pocket for far too long and get destroyed while forcing throws and missing open throws. Richardson is too reliant on turning into Lamar, and again, misses open targets or underthrows. Not sure what else needs to be said to you. Levis and Richardson are not the answer.

[Fluke_33]

38 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But AR has yet to display that he can throw an NFL quality out pattern on a consistent basis.  Both on tape and at the Combine.   Inaccuracies with that throw can lead to not converting first downs or pick 6s. 

 

 Its really a horrible thing to not be able to perform at this stage.  The deep ball means nothing if you can't throw a 7 yard out....the offense won't be on the field long enough.

 

And the idea that its just a footwork thing than can be corrected in TC or throughout his rookie season is a big gamble.

 

GMs certainly base their value on a ceiling, but my goodness, there is a reason players play college ball, and that it to learn the skills it takes to move to the next level.  It can't all be based on projected ceiling.

I feel the same way.  Seems like a great kid and a great athlete that can't hit the side of a barn with the ball.  I don't see that being coached up at this point.

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It is a mechanics thing and can be cleaned up by good coaching.

How do you know that, and how many seasons will it take?  7 yard outs are a hugely important pass in the NFL.

[Myles]

I hope they stay at 4 and take who they can get.   I think it would be between Levis and Richardson.  Maybe either or.  

I am not sold on any of the QB's in this draft.  All could be busts.  Young seems to have allot of good qualities but his small size could hurt him in the NFL game (or he could get hurt because of his size.  

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I feel the same way.  Seems like a great kid and a great athlete that can't hit the side of a barn with the ball.  I don't see that being coached up at this point.

It may not be footwork or something that can be cleaned up easily.  It could be less than desired basic hand to eye coordination or depth perception that can't ever be cleaned up.

[Fluke_33]

22 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It may not be footwork or something that can be cleaned up easily.  It could be less than desired basic hand to eye coordination or depth perception that can't ever be cleaned up.

Get him prescription glasses, like wild thing in major league!

[tfunky14]

1 hour ago, Indyfan4life said:

Idk. Maybe by watching games and seeing how each QB broke down coverage and blitzes at the line? Levis likes to stand in the pocket for far too long and get destroyed while forcing throws and missing open throws. Richardson is too reliant on turning into Lamar, and again, misses open targets or underthrows. Not sure what else needs to be said to you. Levis and Richardson are not the answer.

How many Kentucky and Florida games were you able to watch?

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Get him prescription glasses, like wild thing in major league!

Why couldn't Ebron ever catch very well?   

 

Why is it that some athletic basketball players can't shoot very well?  Why can't every professional golfer score under par?

 

Its not like coaching can fix everything.

[ProblChld32]

15 hours ago, Aaron86 said:

The kid is going to be good. He has the drive and mindset you want in a QB.

I think he just needs good coaching and time. 

Where are you getting this from? Lol are you secretly his agent or something? He is a project player , very raw. Is it a possibility that he can be good? Maybe. But their are way too many question marks on his ability to accurately throw the ball and placement. I think a lot of folks are so blinded by his athletic ability that they are looking past they key abilities you need to be a successful QB in this league. He struggles with accuracy, ball placement and general IQ of the position or reading defenses etc. I don’t think that Irsay wants to spend a 1st round pick on a Developmental QB at this point. After making all these promises of championships and superbowl to the fan base and city. 

[Aaron86]

2 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

Where are you getting this from? Lol are you secretly his agent or something? He is a project player , very raw. Is it a possibility that he can be good? Maybe. But their are way too many question marks on his ability to accurately throw the ball and placement. I think a lot of folks are so blinded by his athletic ability that they are looking past they key abilities you need to be a successful QB in this league. He struggles with accuracy, ball placement and general IQ of the position or reading defenses etc. I don’t think that Irsay wants to spend a 1st round pick on a Developmental QB at this point. After making all these promises of championships and superbowl to the fan base and city. 

We will see. I am willing to eat crow. He is hardly a project if he is being considered a top 5 draft pick.The issues he has are fixable. Young can't fix his size and Stroud is not good under pressure.

[gspdx]

14 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Would rather go down swinging by giving up draft picks for the guy you really want or go down  swinging settling on left overs.

But is there even a guy here that our mgmt really wants.  It doesn't matter what we want.  So if they see all of these guys in a similar fashion why would we move up?

 

I have no idea what Ballard and Steichen really think about these QBs but the analysts and mock drafts are all over board.  

[Tsarquise]

2 hours ago, Aaron86 said:

We will see. I am willing to eat crow. He is hardly a project if he is being considered a top 5 draft pick.The issues he has are fixable. Young can't fix his size and Stroud is not good under pressure.

Stroud is not good under pressure and that is unfixable, but all of AR15s issues are fixable? 

2 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

Where are you getting this from? Lol are you secretly his agent or something? He is a project player , very raw. Is it a possibility that he can be good? Maybe. But their are way too many question marks on his ability to accurately throw the ball and placement. I think a lot of folks are so blinded by his athletic ability that they are looking past they key abilities you need to be a successful QB in this league. He struggles with accuracy, ball placement and general IQ of the position or reading defenses etc. I don’t think that Irsay wants to spend a 1st round pick on a Developmental QB at this point. After making all these promises of championships and superbowl to the fan base and city. 

The AR15 hype makes me feel like I'm in the Twilight zone. 

[Aaron86]

6 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Stroud is not good under pressure and that is unfixable, but all of AR15s issues are fixable? 

The AR15 hype makes me feel like I'm in the Twilight zone. 

The thing is AR has had less time then CJ in college. Ohio state QB's worry me.

Being bad under pressure I think is harder to fix then accuracy issues. Pressure is mental, accuracy is fundamental. AR is a high risk I don't deny that.

But in the right place he is going to be good. 

[ProblChld32]

4 hours ago, Aaron86 said:

We will see. I am willing to eat crow. He is hardly a project if he is being considered a top 5 draft pick.The issues he has are fixable. Young can't fix his size and Stroud is not good under pressure.

That’s not necessarily true, him being considered a top 5 pick is pure speculation. We don’t know how the draft will actually play out. At this point everyone is infatuated with his Combine showing. We have seen this movie play out the same several times. That one prospect who dominates the draft but doesn’t quite live up to the pick where they’re drafted. Once again I’m not saying that is the case here but I’m not sold on him based purely on what we see on tape. I’m also not on board with his “issues” being able to be “fixed” as you stated. Those skills take time to develop. Can he work on the cerebral part of the game? Absolutely if he becomes a student of the game sure he can. But placement and accuracy isn’t one of those skills that really can’t just be easily taught. QB is one of the toughest positions to play for a reason. 

[ProblChld32]

1 hour ago, Tsarquise said:

Stroud is not good under pressure and that is unfixable, but all of AR15s issues are fixable? 

The AR15 hype makes me feel like I'm in the Twilight zone. 

Im not on the Richardson train to be honest, and i don’t really get why folks are saying that Stroud isn’t good against pressure. if you look at his production it speaks for itself 44 TDs to 6 ints doesn’t say to me that this kid struggles against pressure. Someone who struggles against pressure is going to turn the ball over much more than he has. His biggest knock is he often locks in on one receiver, and that he didn’t use his legs much more than alot of other prospects. Which I am ok with I would rather a QB that has the ability to move and extend plays but doesn’t need to.

[Aaron86]

3 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

That’s not necessarily true, him being considered a top 5 pick is pure speculation. We don’t know how the draft will actually play out. At this point everyone is infatuated with his Combine showing. We have seen this movie play out the same several times. That one prospect who dominates the draft but doesn’t quite live up to the pick where they’re drafted. Once again I’m not saying that is the case here but I’m not sold on him based purely on what we see on tape. I’m also not on board with his “issues” being able to be “fixed” as you stated. Those skills take time to develop. Can he work on the cerebral part of the game? Absolutely if he becomes a student of the game sure he can. But placement and accuracy isn’t one of those skills that really can’t just be easily taught. QB is one of the toughest positions to play for a reason. 

It is true, he is considered a top 5 pick at this moment like it or not. His combine was amazing but that's not why I like him. I never said it would be easy to fix but I do think accuracy issues are a easier fix then being bad under pressure. You can have the most accurate passer but if they get flustered easily then accuracy doesnt matter.

I don't think  we are moving up to get him but if he falls to 4 I can see Ballard taking him. And if he does pick him I'm sure he, Shane and Irsay will all be on the same page. 

There are reports out there now saying he didn't even have a QB coach. Imagine if he had a coach just to work on his mechanics and his accuracy.

[Stephen]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

How do you know that, and how many seasons will it take?  7 yard outs are a hugely important pass in the NFL.

If the coaches take him they believe they can fix him so we will wait and see who they pick