Draft 2 QBs?

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Most teams don't do it very often, and I've been thinking about this draft and can't understand why.  That's the way I look at it.  If you buy two tickets you have twice as likely a chance to win. 

We are needy in  a lot of places, but man if we take a chance and miss on QB this time. I think it will be hard to recover from it.  For a decent time period.  You have to be patient on the one hand with a young QB, but on the other hand, if you don't move on some times you get in a rut. 

 

Dictated by who you have on the roster, the number of draft picks available for other pressing needs and FA moves done before the draft. All of those dictate those. Teams having 3 QBs is almost a must nowadays but there are UDFA camp bodies and FA journeymen in almost every off season. That is primarily why you don't see teams doing that (spending draft equity) unless they have like 10 draft picks and have a need for a 3rd QB on their roster. Sam E, like I said, and the new HC and our FA moves prior to the draft will all determine our path for that 2nd QB in the draft. 

[MikeCurtis]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

Most teams don't do it very often, and I've been thinking about this draft and can't understand why.  That's the way I look at it.  If you buy two tickets you have twice as likely a chance to win. 

We are needy in  a lot of places, but man if we take a chance and miss on QB this time. I think it will be hard to recover from it.  For a decent time period.  You have to be patient on the one hand with a young QB, but on the other hand, if you don't move on some times you get in a rut. 

Max Duggan (and the rest of the TCU team).....  Laid an Egg against Georgia

 

But the guy has a strong arm and is very mobile

 

He did better every year he played

 

He put TCU on his back...... to keep on winning

 

Not a QB1..... not yet at least,

 

 

 

[Stephen]

Levis and hall or hooker, or duggan or bennet

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Dictated by who you have on the roster, the number of draft picks available for other pressing needs and FA moves done before the draft. All of those dictate those. Teams having 3 QBs is almost a must nowadays but there are UDFA camp bodies and FA journeymen in almost every off season. That is primarily why you don't see teams doing that unless they have like 10 draft picks and have a need for a 3rd QB on their roster. 

It's just that it's so important to get right I guess with ever increasing passing rules. .  and the other stuff matters little now days without a really good QB.

 

 

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

It's just that it's so important to get right I guess with ever increasing passing rules. .  and the other stuff matters little now days without a really good QB.

 

 

You still have to do enough to increase the margin for error for your QB and need the draft picks to stockpile that talent, we should realize we are more than a QB away to compete for the division. Brock Purdy, his margin for error went up because of his D. Joe Burrow, he has NEVER had to win a playoff game scoring 30 or more, thanks to defensive support. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, Nickster said:

So I've been thinking about this and have kinda talked myself into it for this draft.

 

WASH had RG3 and Cousins and it worked out pretty well for them.  After RG3 went down they had a good QB to take his place.  NE even with Brady at  high level spent some good capital on QBs and were able to turn Garapolo into a good return when it became clear Brady was still going to be around for a while.

 

In this draft there seems to be some guys that will be day 2 picks that might be worth spending a pick on even though we have lots of needs on this team.  There isn't a clear consensus on the order of the top 3 QBs, and I hope somehow we are going to be able to draft one of the top 3 guys, but I think I would consider drafting a Hooker if he falls or a  Bennet type to give the team a couple chances to get the draft right.

 

I am not proposing to be able to rank college QBs with any type of accuracy as to how they translate to the NFL.

 

But assuming we can get Young, Stroud, or Levis, would you consider drafting another guy?  This QB draft seems deep if not top heavy with talent.

 

 

yes in case one is a bust

[philba101]

I love the idea of drafting two QB's but it would seem like a luxury at this point as the Colts have several holes that need to be filled on this team. I am actually surprised teams don't do this more often. When you see situations happen like a 7th-round QB being the eventual starter for an NFC championship, you wonder if you can ever have enough QB's on your roster. Just by a quick count there was 21 or 22 teams that played at least 2 QB's this year, and 9-10 that played three different QB's.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

7 hours ago, Nickster said:

So I've been thinking about this and have kinda talked myself into it for this draft.

 

WASH had RG3 and Cousins and it worked out pretty well for them.  After RG3 went down they had a good QB to take his place.  NE even with Brady at  high level spent some good capital on QBs and were able to turn Garapolo into a good return when it became clear Brady was still going to be around for a while.

 

In this draft there seems to be some guys that will be day 2 picks that might be worth spending a pick on even though we have lots of needs on this team.  There isn't a clear consensus on the order of the top 3 QBs, and I hope somehow we are going to be able to draft one of the top 3 guys, but I think I would consider drafting a Hooker if he falls or a  Bennet type to give the team a couple chances to get the draft right.

 

I am not proposing to be able to rank college QBs with any type of accuracy as to how they translate to the NFL.

 

But assuming we can get Young, Stroud, or Levis, would you consider drafting another guy?  This QB draft seems deep if not top heavy with talent.

 

 

 

I voted yes. 

Take the best QB you can in round 1, and take Hooker in Day 2. 

That should increase the chances of having a Franchise QB going forward. Not interested in picking a back up type prospect but one who has a chance of becoming a franchise QB, like Hooker is said to be. 

Other positions needs can be addressed in FA, trade, etc...

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

I'm kind of surprised by the results of the poll TBH. 

 

IT's right now 15 yeas, 15 nays, and 10 Maybes.

 

I thought there would be more nays. 

The people here are SCHMART   

[John Hammonds]

I wouldn't do it as a pre-draft strategy.  However, if Hooker or McKee drop down to the 4th or 5th round, then I would certainly entertain the idea.

[AKB]

im alright with taking two as long as its BPA.  Taking two just for the sake of it isn't the right way imo.  They also need to be similar builds and QB types. 

[DougDew]

18 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

That's agreed.  The later the QB is selected the less chance they have of starting, generally.  I don't like the idea of trading back and hoping a guy is still there.  if i think he will start and he is at 4 or we need to trade up to 1 to get him then i would do it.  

I wouldn't be mad if they took hooker or richardson at 4 overall.  if they think that guy is the man then get him. 

The questions for me are:  Can Levis stay calm and collected as he's escaping, not trying to make hero ball plays ala Wentz?  And, can he rely on mental development to anticipate and throw receivers open, or will he always rely on great arm talent to bail him out of situations he should not have gotten into in the first place?

 

As for Stroud, he did well during the GA game but it was still only one game.  I don't think he nor Hooker moves as well as Levis, so I don't know if what he showed in that one game can hold up at the NFL level over a season...if you are looking for improvising as a trait ( I don't know that I would).  As far as movement. escapability, and making plays off script, I think Levis has shown to be the superior athlete for doing that than either Stroud or Hooker, IMO..

[DougDew]

18 hours ago, coltsblue1844 said:

and he seems to have "enough" mobility to get away if need be, from what I've seen

Me too.  I think too many analysts are now comparing QBs to Mahomes and Hurts and are saying that if the rook doesn't have those traits, his athleticism is labeled a liability.  I think its a false standard.  A QB needs to be able to extend plays and run 8 yards for a FD.  He doesn't need to run sideways across the field in both directions and then flip the ball underhanded, or make a 15 to 20 yard run by outrunning a LBer.  If an offense relies on the QB to make those kinds of plays, then the offense isn't what it should be.

 

I think McKee is mobile enough to extend a play.  He certainly has the height and arm to see the field and make any throw.   He's pretty close to Herbert, IMO, but, no, not as a runner.

[coltsblue1844]

49 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Me too.  I think too many analysts are now comparing QBs to Mahomes and Hurts and are saying that if the rook doesn't have those traits, his athleticism is labeled a liability.  I think its a false standard.  A QB needs to be able to extend plays and run 8 yards for a FD.  He doesn't need to run sideways across the field in both directions and then flip the ball underhanded, or make a 15 to 20 yard run by outrunning a LBer.  If an offense relies on the QB to make those kinds of plays, then the offense isn't what it should be.

 

I think McKee is mobile enough to extend a play.  He certainly has the height and arm to see the field and make any throw.   He's pretty close to Herbert, IMO, but, no, not as a runner.

Someone else had said on here "He's just another Joe Flacco"... well, in his prime and with a team around him, Flacco was pretty good and won a Super Bowl... I personally think that McKee can be better than that, but just re-hashing a conversation that I'd had a week or so ago...

 

You're right, people all think you have to have Mahomes etc to be a good team... Jimmy G is not that at all, but his team wins...there are plenty of good teams in the NFL that dont have Mahomes  (and while there is no debate that Mahomes is great...his TEAM and  COACHES are, also... when he went out in the game this weekend, they didnt miss a beat).

 

But back to the Flacco thing (as if it were an insult)... you put a Flacco in his prime, on a good team with good coaching, and they'll do well

[esmort]

Downplaying the importance of an elite QB by looking at the current 49ers(or other similarly loaded teams) is a mistake IMO.  The odds of Ballard putting together a team of that caliber along with a coach as good is Shanahan is probably longer odds then drafting an very good-elite QB. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Me too.  I think too many analysts are now comparing QBs to Mahomes and Hurts and are saying that if the rook doesn't have those traits, his athleticism is labeled a liability.  I think its a false standard.  A QB needs to be able to extend plays and run 8 yards for a FD.  He doesn't need to run sideways across the field in both directions and then flip the ball underhanded, or make a 15 to 20 yard run by outrunning a LBer.  If an offense relies on the QB to make those kinds of plays, then the offense isn't what it should be.

 

I think McKee is mobile enough to extend a play.  He certainly has the height and arm to see the field and make any throw.   He's pretty close to Herbert, IMO, but, no, not as a runner.

 

True. Joe Burrow just showed you that timely running and timely passing will win you games. The key is to get your QB the support with skill positions and a good D to increase the margin for error. Passing the ball still wins games but it is hard to get 5 or 6 scoring drives every game come playoff time, that is why it is important to have that margin for error.

 

Decision making, arm strength to get it 20-30 yards all parts of the field and accuracy are the 3 main traits I would look for. If you have good decision making, you can quickly decide to get those 5-7 yards running to get a critical first down if the DBs have their backs turned to you since you don't run much. Just can't make a living out of it. If you have the accuracy to put it where only your guy can get it, and decision making, you will not turn the ball over and always give your team a puncher's chance in games in a team sport.

[Stephen]

20 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

True. Joe Burrow just showed you that timely running and timely passing will win you games. The key is to get your QB the support with skill positions and a good D to increase the margin for error. Passing the ball still wins games but it is hard to get 5 or 6 scoring drives every game come playoff time, that is why it is important to have that margin for error.

 

Decision making, arm strength to get it 20-30 yards all parts of the field and accuracy are the 3 main traits I would look for. If you have good decision making, you can quickly decide to get those 5-7 yards running to get a critical first down if the DBs have their backs turned to you since you don't run much. Just can't make a living out of it. If you have the accuracy to put it where only your guy can get it, and decision making, you will not turn the ball over and always give your team a puncher's chance in games in a team sport.

Stroud reminds me of burrow. I think that is his ceiling.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Stroud reminds me of burrow. I think that is his ceiling.

I only really like 2 QB's in this draft where I think they will be good at worse that is Young and Stroud. The others are a crapshoot, JMO.

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I only really like 2 QB's in this draft where I think they will be good at worse that is Young and Stroud. The others are a crapshoot, JMO.

I like hooker,levis,and bennett and duggan in the late rounds

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

I like hooker,levis,and bennett and duggan in the late rounds

I liked Hooker but that Injury threw a wrench in it. Duggan would be a good 4th round pick just to see if he panned out. I am not big on Levis.

[chad72]

39 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I liked Hooker but that Injury threw a wrench in it. Duggan would be a good 4th round pick just to see if he panned out. I am not big on Levis.

 

https://atozsports.com/nashville/where-pro-football-focus-predicts-hendon-hooker-will-be-drafted-in-the-2023-nfl-draft/

 

This on top of his injury should concern you, he definitely will drop to Rounds 4 or 5:

 

AS A RUNNER, HE’S OBVIOUSLY VERY GIFTED, BUT WHEN HE BREAKS THE POCKET, HE’S LOOKING ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY TO RUN, NOT PASS. ON 151 DROPBACKS THE PAST TWO SEASONS WHERE HE WAS MOVED OFF HIS SPOT, HOOKER COMPLETED ONLY SEVEN PASSES!

 

That is why Andy Reid drafted Patrick Mahomes, because when he was moved off his spot, he still looked to pass first.

[Fluke_33]

21 hours ago, BProland85 said:

In a PFN mock I did recently I nabbed QBs Cameron Ward and Dorian Thompson-Robinson later in the draft. I also traded down so much from the 4th overall pick that I landed 6 extra 2024 1sts. I then selected very good prospects in rounds 2 and 3 with WR Kayshon Boutte, DE Felix Anudike, and RT Darnell Wright. 
 

As GM I basically liked the opportunity to be able to acquire multiple top 10 picks in 2024 to have a great chance at landing either Caleb Williams or Drake Maye if Ward or Thompson-Robinson don’t look promising. 

Can you imagine if that really could happen? Then trade all of those to have every first round pick in 2025 and 2026!  lol.

[Fluke_33]

2 hours ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Someone else had said on here "He's just another Joe Flacco"... well, in his prime and with a team around him, Flacco was pretty good and won a Super Bowl... I personally think that McKee can be better than that, but just re-hashing a conversation that I'd had a week or so ago...

I just heard something about comparing flacco with Maholmes in their first 5 years and their postseason play was equal.  They said stats and results.  I haven't verified this but pretty interesting if true.

[coltsblue1844]

23 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I just heard something about comparing flacco with Maholmes in their first 5 years and their postseason play was equal.  They said stats and results.  I haven't verified this but pretty interesting if true.

if we dont trade up (i'm hoping we do not, i dont want to part with other high end draft picks that we need to keep)...if we also dont believe that any of these QBs are "elite"...then why not draft someone who IS elite, at a position that matters at #4...then take McKee with our 2nd round pick (or 3rd if that's where experts think he will fall to)... either way, i'd take someone elite at 4 and then "Joe Flacco in his prime" and be happy.... I'd also be happy with Levis at 4, but that's just me lol

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Someone else had said on here "He's just another Joe Flacco"... well, in his prime and with a team around him, Flacco was pretty good and won a Super Bowl... I personally think that McKee can be better than that, but just re-hashing a conversation that I'd had a week or so ago...

 

You're right, people all think you have to have Mahomes etc to be a good team... Jimmy G is not that at all, but his team wins...there are plenty of good teams in the NFL that dont have Mahomes  (and while there is no debate that Mahomes is great...his TEAM and  COACHES are, also... when he went out in the game this weekend, they didnt miss a beat).

 

But back to the Flacco thing (as if it were an insult)... you put a Flacco in his prime, on a good team with good coaching, and they'll do well

Flacco never really had the brains for the position, so I don't get the Flacco comparison.  

 

Joe Burrow appears to be the young QB of this era that can deliver the ball to the correct receiver based upon coverage diagnosis.  That has more to do with his success than any mobility thing, where he is mobile enough to escape and to get a FD when needed, but he's not really a dual threat type of QB.

 

If McKee can be that, then its a home run pick.  So is Stroud or Levis or any other QB that is at least 6'1", IMO.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

True. Joe Burrow just showed you that timely running and timely passing will win you games. The key is to get your QB the support with skill positions and a good D to increase the margin for error. Passing the ball still wins games but it is hard to get 5 or 6 scoring drives every game come playoff time, that is why it is important to have that margin for error.

 

Decision making, arm strength to get it 20-30 yards all parts of the field and accuracy are the 3 main traits I would look for. If you have good decision making, you can quickly decide to get those 5-7 yards running to get a critical first down if the DBs have their backs turned to you since you don't run much. Just can't make a living out of it. If you have the accuracy to put it where only your guy can get it, and decision making, you will not turn the ball over and always give your team a puncher's chance in games in a team sport.

Burrow knows where the ball should be thrown.   IMO, that is 75% of the total package a QB needs.   "Mobility" is nice to have, but it should only be used when needed.  Burrow is not a runner, but he can run for a FD if its the last option.

[PRnum1]

Stetson Bennett wins the Manning Award

 

The award goes to the nation’s top quarterback as judged by the Sugar Bowl and takes in bowl performances as well, whereas most awards do not.

 

Bennett was at his best last season in Georgia’s two postseason wins over Ohio State and TCU. He accounted for 10 touchdowns in the two wins while turning the ball over once. He completed 69 percent of his passes in those two games (41 of 59 attempts) for 702 yards.

 

Bennett beat out the likes of USC’s Caleb Williams, Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud and TCU’s Max Duggan to win the award. Past winners of the Manning Award include Joe Burrow, Tim Tebow and Vince Young.

 

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/around-the-dawghouse/stetson-bennett-manning-award-georgia-football/4JQOHFDKYBETRJOULHL6M6SUKI/

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

I just heard something about comparing flacco with Maholmes in their first 5 years and their postseason play was equal.  They said stats and results.  I haven't verified this but pretty interesting if true.

Hmmm…outside the fact they won 1 SB / SB MVP, and never went one and done, there’s not much comparison because possible 2 regular season MVPs and 5 AFCCG appearances is far beyond what Flacco did in his entire career, IMO.

[Fluke_33]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

Hmmm…outside the fact they won 1 SB, there’s not much comparison because possible 2 regular season MVPs and 5 AFCCG appearances is far beyond what Flacco did, both never went one and done, that’s also comparable.

I heard it and never looked it up.  I'll try to later but i was surprised they said the first 5 years were comparable.

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I heard it and never looked it up.  I'll try to later but i was surprised they said the first 5 years were comparable.

 

That very well could be skewed by that Joe Montana like 1 year run Flacco had to get his only SB, thanks to a Hail Mary vs Broncos and cashed in for a big contract. He had like 10 or 11 TDs with no INTs, made hay when the sun shined and capitalized on the Ray Lewis swan song for a big fat contract only to never make an AFCCG again, lol.  

 

Maybe that is why the Ravens don't want to shell out all that dough to Lamar Jackson.

[coltsblue1844]

33 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Flacco never really had the brains for the position, so I don't get the Flacco comparison.  

 

Joe Burrow appears to be the young QB of this era that can deliver the ball to the correct receiver based upon coverage diagnosis.  That has more to do with his success than any mobility thing, where he is mobile enough to escape and to get a FD when needed, but he's not really a dual threat type of QB.

 

If McKee can be that, then its a home run pick.  So is Stroud or Levis or any other QB that is at least 6'1", IMO.

I've told everyone pretty much this!

 

The media wants to declare "the pocket passer is dead in today's NFL...to win, you must have a mobile QB who can extend plays etc"

 

But what they dont tell you is that they cant read a D pre-snap, so they scramble around and wait for someone to get open... but the "pocket passers" such as Manning, Brady (and now Burrow), all knew where to throw the ball before the receiver even got there... they knew who would be open and why, and the ball was there exactly when it needed to be.

 

SO, the "pocket QB" isnt dead, as they want you to think...there just arent many that can read a D pre-snap and know what to do with the info...so the media hypes up this "ability to extend plays with their legs" etc... Sure, being able to take off and get a 1st down if there is a huge hole is needed, but I do NOT want a QB that relies on making plays with their legs.

[stitches]

I don't mind it. Depends on who's there on day 3. There are worse things you can do with a day 3 pick. When you don't have a franchise QB, you do everything possible to get one. 1st round QB is good start... adding a second shot later in the draft IMO is not a bad pick. 

[chad72]

39 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Stetson Bennett wins the Manning Award

 

The award goes to the nation’s top quarterback as judged by the Sugar Bowl and takes in bowl performances as well, whereas most awards do not.

 

Bennett was at his best last season in Georgia’s two postseason wins over Ohio State and TCU. He accounted for 10 touchdowns in the two wins while turning the ball over once. He completed 69 percent of his passes in those two games (41 of 59 attempts) for 702 yards.

 

Bennett beat out the likes of USC’s Caleb Williams, Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud and TCU’s Max Duggan to win the award. Past winners of the Manning Award include Joe Burrow, Tim Tebow and Vince Young.

 

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/around-the-dawghouse/stetson-bennett-manning-award-georgia-football/4JQOHFDKYBETRJOULHL6M6SUKI/

 

Stetson Bennett would keep things going like a Doug Flutie (in his later years), giving us a decent floor for a backup, IMO.

[esmort]

Burrow getting alot of love lately. Much of it deserved, but also got to look at the weapons they gave him ... arguably 2 of the top 10 WRs in the league with an argument that could be made for Chase even being the #1 in NFL. Their #3 receiver is overshadowed, but would be a borderline #1 on many teams and definitely a #2 on most teams. Plus an elite runner and they went out and got him a great oline.  A lot of QBs would look good with what he has right now.

[ChuggaBeer]

Yes.  Would love to add Hooker.  The kid is gonna be a steal in this draft 

[Knuckles79]

I voted no. Draft your guy and let him know he is your guy. I am all for competition but if you draft two it says we don't believe if you right off the jump. I believe confidence is almost more important than competition!

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:26 AM, Stephen said:

I like hooker,levis,and bennett and duggan in the late rounds

Late rounds, yes I can buy it. Bennett needs to lay off the booze 

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 1/24/2023 at 12:07 PM, chad72 said:

 

https://atozsports.com/nashville/where-pro-football-focus-predicts-hendon-hooker-will-be-drafted-in-the-2023-nfl-draft/

 

This on top of his injury should concern you, he definitely will drop to Rounds 4 or 5:

 

AS A RUNNER, HE’S OBVIOUSLY VERY GIFTED, BUT WHEN HE BREAKS THE POCKET, HE’S LOOKING ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY TO RUN, NOT PASS. ON 151 DROPBACKS THE PAST TWO SEASONS WHERE HE WAS MOVED OFF HIS SPOT, HOOKER COMPLETED ONLY SEVEN PASSES!

 

That is why Andy Reid drafted Patrick Mahomes, because when he was moved off his spot, he still looked to pass first.

If we take Hooker at 4 this place will do this - having said that he is very talented but if we draft him that would mean keeping Matty Ice IMO.

[Stephen]

16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If we take Hooker at 4 this place will do this - having said that he is very talented but if we draft him that would mean keeping Matty Ice IMO.

I wouldnt be against taking hooker, we would need to do ut in a trade back scenerio. They we could take hyatt hooker and oline

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

I wouldnt be against taking hooker, we would need to do ut in a trade back scenerio. They we could take hyatt hooker and oline

Hooker probably won't be healthy until October or November so we need a QB like Matty to play and mentor him. I like Hooker a lot though, I think he has great game. That injury sucks though.