removing kickoffs

[CR91]

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Giants-President-John-Mara-on-rule-changes/4251e760-3ad7-431b-bbc8-b37cd5226de9?module=HP11_headline_stack

article mentions how safety is important and the benefits of the new KO rule, but it also mentions maybe one day removing kickoffs. so my question is do you think thats a good idea and if so what would you replace KOs with?

[Gavin]

Id keep kickoffs because on ocassion you got guys like Lefedged thinkin they can make something out of not much, and actually if a guy tries something like that he is under the same risk as he was under the old rule in other words yet again another stupid rule change by Goodell

[ruksak]

http://www.giants.co..._headline_stack

article mentions how safety is important and the benefits of the new KO rule, but it also mentions maybe one day removing kickoffs. so my question is do you think thats a good idea and if so what would you replace KOs with?

Though I wouldn't particularly miss the kickoff, it seems like an iconic part of the game itself. Just by saying "I don't want to miss kickoff", people know what you mean.

If we did away with it, what would we say then? "I don't want to miss first snap"? Snap-off?

[Vance]

No way, kickoffs are so iconic as ruk said...and I think KO returns are one of the most exciting things in football.

[Coltman51]

I have to support the rule, don't feel any letdown in the game, didn't effect scoring, Obviously the run back for a score is exciting as long as it's your team running it back. But those scores were few and far between. The old way I feel was more time consuming and a waste as it seems that 7-8 out of 10 plays always resulted in a penalty. Holding, push to the back, chop block, illegal formation. Don't see it ever going away soon as there are some bad kicks and guys who think they can run it back out. I am good with starting at the 20, better field position that we usually had with our special teams, and a lot worse position for the opposition with our ability to stop the return.

[Vance]

I think a line has to be drawn with this whole player safety thing. Yes, it's greatly important that we protect the players as much as possible. But let's get real, football will always be a violent sport by nature. If we're this concerned about injuries, why don't we make it two hand touch? Or guys running around in big foam cylinders? You can only do so much.

[ReMeDy]

Do NOT remove kickoffs! Kickoffs are an iconic part of football! There's nothing more exhilarating than the opening kickoff to a game as the punter slams his foot against the pigskin and seeing bodies colliding. If players get injured, that's too bad. That's the sport of football. Let's keep teaching the players to mitigate such injuries, but do not do it for them by removing kickoffs altogether!

[MTC]

I doubt the NFL will remove kickoffs. It's part of history, it just wont happen.

[bahhummbug]

Agree would be hard to say i cant miss the first snap of game.But if this concussion suit against the NFL and USFL starting again could be a bad couple of years for the NFL.I also think other people have a point with it slowing the game down,how many injuries and penalties on kickoff?So except the injuries to players 22 men full sprint unstoppable unmovable force applies.Sure would miss kickoffs though.

[Gavin]

Goodell has done damage to the game already by not being clear about helmet to helmet calls he dont need to touch this rule as well

[Happy2BeHere]

I say removing the kickoff would be a very dumb thing...it's an absolute iconic part of the game and where a lot of teams are able to use special teams well.

Why not get rid of the punt too while your at it...and those stupid goal posts are useless....why have seating for the fans what a crazy idea...and restrooms ????? They are completely useless most of the time ;)

Ahh y'all get what I'm sayin

[21isSuperman]

No way, kickoffs are so iconic as ruk said...and I think KO returns are one of the most exciting things in football.

Exactly. I wasn't happy when they moved it up to the 35 yard line because then you have less returns and less exciting plays. Taking it completely out wouldn't be a good idea, in my opinion

[ruksak]

Why not get rid of the punt too while your at it...and those stupid goal posts are useless....why have seating for the fans what a crazy idea...and restrooms ????? They are completely useless most of the time ;)

Excellent! Hey, while they're at it, maybe they could get rid of those darn endzones? When you think about it, most of the game is wasted trying to get to them.

[21isSuperman]

Excellent! Hey, while they're at it, maybe they could get rid of those darn endzones? When you think about it, most of the game is wasted trying to get to them.

Replace them with huge ads for beer and medication. "And Gronkowski spikes the ball right on the Pfizer logo"

[polk_high_allstar]

If the NFL wanted to do this they should of done in the 2009-2010 season. No Saints onside in the Super Bowl and we would have another Lombardi trophy.

[ruksak]

Replace them with huge ads for beer and medication. "And Gronkowski spikes the ball right on the Pfizer logo"

Hopefully our next season will be sponsored by Goodyear.

.

[Vance]

Replace them with huge ads for beer and medication. "And Gronkowski spikes the ball right on the Pfizer logo"

Yeah!

"Ohhh, and Jackson takes a shot and he's down right on the Advil logo...this world is never too short of ironic moments, is it Bob? Let's go to commercial."

[21isSuperman]

Yeah!

"Ohhh, and Jackson takes a shot and he's down right on the Advil logo...this world is never too short of ironic moments, is it Bob? Let's go to commercial."

[WeSpy]

I think a line has to be drawn with this whole player safety thing. Yes, it's greatly important that we protect the players as much as possible. But let's get real, football will always be a violent sport by nature. If we're this concerned about injuries, why don't we make it two hand touch? Or guys running around in big foam cylinders? You can only do so much.

I needed that, Vance87... This was just great! If I wasn't on the Colts' board, I'd reward you by saying: "Go Texans!"

[ColtsPRIDE11]

When they moved it to the 35 yard line, they made it just a formality. It went from being an actual play in the game to just something they have to do now (of course this is MO). I think it stemmed from guys like D. Hester returning them for TD's...man I miss those days...anyways, I'd like to see it moved back before they made the dumb rule change.

And kickoffs should always be part of the game...it wouldn't be football without them.

[eaglejoe8]

I hate this idea as it is. Like another poster said, there is only so much you can do to make the game safer. One of the coolest moments in sports is seeing all the flash bulbs go off during the opening kickoff of the Super Bowl. Quit trying to water down the game. Goodell is going to make the NFL the NFFL (National Flag Football League) eventually.

[Happy2BeHere]

Yeah they could no longer say "and we're set for kickoff" or "kickoff is just around the corner"....what phrases might they use?

"first hike when we come back...." or "first hut from under centers bu.tt when we come back" or "start from the 20 underway"....

[subvet]

http://www.giants.co..._headline_stack

article mentions how safety is important and the benefits of the new KO rule, but it also mentions maybe one day removing kickoffs. so my question is do you think thats a good idea and if so what would you replace KOs with?

The way things are going they'll replace it with a coin toss and 3 commercials.

Keep the kickoff, Devin Hester is exciting to watch even when it's against the Colts in Miami.....

[Thewholefnshow28]

The NFL is fighting a losing PR war. On one hand they have one of the most violent sports we have in our country and then on the other hand they have mounting scientific data showing the outcome of repeated brain trauma. They are not worried about people they all ready have hooked. They are worried parents with kids who are looking at all this data coming out that is basically screaming you would be insane to let your kid play. Heck I love this sport, but my wife and I are thinking about having a kid and I even pause when thinking do I want my future son to play this sport?

If less and less kids grow playing then they are losing future people who are buying tickets, jerseys, and so on when they get older. The NFL has to find ways to become safer.

From the fan standpoint I hate some of these rule changes and getting rid of the kickoff would just suck. I hate how they have put the red jersey on the QBs and have become so pro offense. Getting rid of kickoffs would eliminate one of the most exciting plays, the kickoff return.

[MAC]

I couldn't care less about kickoffs. Usually boring, now just brief and ridiculous formalities bracketed by commercials. Unless I'm taping a Colts game (in which I feel compelled to catch everything) I don't even bother watching them. Maybe we've been a bit spoiled by Peyton, but there have many Colts games in which I was actually rooting for our return team to do nothing because any yardage they picked up is just taking space away from our offense. In other words, I wanted to see Peyton passing for as many yards as possible, not watch some fringe player running for his life. Reminds me of a grade school game of "kill the guy with the ball'. Unless you're the poor * with the ball, it's a big yawn (alternating with helpless pain because of the Colts frequent ineptitude at stopping them).

I also view onside kicks as a gimmick (with some illogical rules designed purely to allow an inferior team to have a chance, and involving an enormous amount of luck). You might as well stop the game and have a coin flip "heads Team A has a chance to win the game, tails they don't" for all the validity of it.

Apparently punts are generally considered to be safer, so why not just use them instead? They just need to calculate where the initial line of scrimmage has to be to replicate the average starting position that they have now. Do it right and things could actually be a lot more interesting than they are now - more teams being pinned inside their twenty, the very real chance of punts being blocked / returned, or just a lousy kick giving you great field position. I think it would be better than what we have now with a reduction in injuries, and it still keeps some strategy. The alternative would probably be just handing a team the ball at the 20 yard line, which would feel like "something" strategic was missing.

[OZOC01]

Football is a violent game, point blank. The players know the risk when they suit up, and they are all adults. I'm for player safety, within reason. This move would bust Pandora's box wide open. What's next, two-hand touch on the QB??? Five 'Mississippi's' before the defense is allowed to rush the passer??? No defensive players (safteies) more than 10 yards deep pre-snap??? Sorry, got carried away there...

[MIColtsFan]

the removal of the wedge = bad, the move to the 35 yard line = bad! I miss the old, exciting kick off return, it already seems gone other than just a formality now.

[ColtsPRIDE11]

As one of my friends put it: If it ain't broke don't "fix" it. The kickoffs weren't broke, so why the heck did they go messing with them in the first place? Put it back to how it was and LEAVE IT ALONE!

[MAC]

As one of my friends put it: If it ain't broke don't "fix" it. The kickoffs weren't broke, so why the heck did they go messing with them in the first place? Put it back to how it was and LEAVE IT ALONE!

To attempt to reduce the number of retired athletes facing dementia (if not death) at an age when most of us are in our career prime. Our desire for entertainment shouldn't require the sacrifice of someone else's life. I've heard that virgin sacrifices are entertaining too, but I doubt that you'll be calling cablevision and lobbying to see them.

It's a trivial (and in my opinion dull) part of the game that we can easily make the enormous "sacrifice" of doing without. And the fact that - frankly - the players are too naive or stupid to realize what is in their own best interests doesn't make it any more acceptable.

[Gavin]

To attempt to reduce the number of retired athletes facing dementia (if not death) at an age when most of us are in our career prime. Our desire for entertainment shouldn't require the sacrifice of someone else's life. I've heard that virgin sacrifices are entertaining too, but I doubt that you'll be calling cablevision and lobbying to see them.

It's a trivial (and in my opinion dull) part of the game that we can easily make the enormous "sacrifice" of doing without. And the fact that - frankly - the players are too naive or stupid to realize what is in their own best interests doesn't make it any more acceptable.

So the potential for a Devin Hester kickoff return for a touchdown is not exciting? as for the players not knowing the risks involved I assure you they know, they have seen guys get paralyzed or knocked out due to collisions NOT just on kickoffs, I guarantee you if they change that rule it will create a chain reaction just like the helmet to helmet rule is now over time and we will officially be watching a two hand touch league, they are grown men, I agree safety measures should be taken but changing rules wont accomplish that. what happens from their? you dont allow players to tackle anymore for fear of serious injury? decisions like that will ruin the league financially and beyond, heck the wordy rule about helmet to helmet hits is already taking away from the game, the key isnt to create more gray areas its do create simple yet specific rules that promote safety yet doesnt take away from the game, I guarantee you it will take away MORE then whats already being taken away from the game if a rule like that actually goes through

[Gavin]

I have to support the rule, don't feel any letdown in the game, didn't effect scoring, Obviously the run back for a score is exciting as long as it's your team running it back. But those scores were few and far between. The old way I feel was more time consuming and a waste as it seems that 7-8 out of 10 plays always resulted in a penalty. Holding, push to the back, chop block, illegal formation. Don't see it ever going away soon as there are some bad kicks and guys who think they can run it back out. I am good with starting at the 20, better field position that we usually had with our special teams, and a lot worse position for the opposition with our ability to stop the return.

they were few and far enough between to happen to us against the Bears in the playoffs and seemingly anytime devin hester touched the ball

[fvantagio]

To attempt to reduce the number of retired athletes facing dementia (if not death) at an age when most of us are in our career prime. Our desire for entertainment shouldn't require the sacrifice of someone else's life. I've heard that virgin sacrifices are entertaining too, but I doubt that you'll be calling cablevision and lobbying to see them.

It's a trivial (and in my opinion dull) part of the game that we can easily make the enormous "sacrifice" of doing without. And the fact that - frankly - the players are too naive or stupid to realize what is in their own best interests doesn't make it any more acceptable.

Right but virgin sacrifices generally dont grow up saying "thats what I wanna do" they dont spend hours upon hours of hard work to become that. They also dont get paid millions and finally its also not their choice. Football players do have a choice, they can retire whenever, nobody's stopping them, they dont because they love the game, so let em play.

[MAC]

So the potential for a Devin Hester kickoff return for a touchdown is not exciting?

Kickoffs roll as part of the overall strategy ("is the team going to have to drive 80 yards, or can they reduce it) is interesting, but the actual play itself is considerably less fun to watch than any single play from scrimmage. You're fondest wish is that a track star (who probably can't even handle a normal position) gets lucky and outruns a bunch of guys up the field. That's a gimmick tacked onto the sport, and I hate it when games are decided because of it. It's not unlike the shootout at the end of tie hockey games. A lot of rapid scoring that has virtually nothing to do with the rest of the sport. I could easily do without it.

Every highlight show you watch features kick returns for scores as if they are special treats. If you've seen one guy sprint up the field with 11 people floundering in his wake, you've seen them all.

To your other comments, I didn't mean to imply that they didn't know, but rather that they are too indoctrinated into the culture to conceive of the idea that they may come to regret it later. Every time I hear an athlete (on his third replacement knee, popping painkillers constantly, unable to even keep up with his grandkids) saying that "they'd do it again in a heartbeat" I think what utter nonsense. More likely they are still so wrapped up in their over-sized egos that they can't bring themselves to admit how ridiculous the whole thing is. Minor changes that result in significantly better health outcomes should be encouraged. People just tell themselves that "the gladiators really LIKE getting eaten by lions" to make themselves feel better.

[MAC]

Right but virgin sacrifices generally dont grow up saying "thats what I wanna do" they dont spend hours upon hours of hard work to become that. They also dont get paid millions and finally its also not their choice. Football players do have a choice, they can retire whenever, nobody's stopping them, they dont because they love the game, so let em play.

Actually I'm pretty sure that in most cultures where practices like that existed, the "victims" WERE willing participants - expecting rewards in the afterlife or whatever. Similarly successful football players come up through a culture where ones willingness to sacrifice their bodies is so ingrained (and their egos so wrapped up the process) that they can't imagine thinking otherwise. Suggesting to one of them that they should let up a bit would be like calling a Marine a pansy. By the time they make it to the pros (or through boot camp) it's all over. The mindset is determined, and that's not necessarily a healthy thing. But one is defending their country, so the mindset is necessary and very much appreciated. The other is playing a game to keep us from getting bored on a fall afternoon. Is it really that big a deal to modify the game a bit so they have a better quality of life?

[Gavin]

Kickoffs roll as part of the overall strategy ("is the team going to have to drive 80 yards, or can they reduce it) is interesting, but the actual play itself is considerably less fun to watch than any single play from scrimmage. You're fondest wish is that a track star (who probably can't even handle a normal position) gets lucky and outruns a bunch of guys up the field. That's a gimmick tacked onto the sport, and I hate it when games are decided because of it. It's not unlike the shootout at the end of tie hockey games. A lot of rapid scoring that has virtually nothing to do with the rest of the sport. I could easily do without it.

Every highlight show you watch features kick returns for scores as if they are special treats. If you've seen one guy sprint up the field with 11 people floundering in his wake, you've seen them all.

To your other comments, I didn't mean to imply that they didn't know, but rather that they are too indoctrinated into the culture to conceive of the idea that they may come to regret it later. Every time I hear an athlete (on his third replacement knee, popping painkillers constantly, unable to even keep up with his grandkids) saying that "they'd do it again in a heartbeat" I think what utter nonsense. More likely they are still so wrapped up in their over-sized egos that they can't bring themselves to admit how ridiculous the whole thing is. Minor changes that result in significantly better health outcomes should be encouraged. People just tell themselves that "the gladiators really LIKE getting eaten by lions" to make themselves feel better.

actually no thats not my fondest memory of that game but it sure did set the tone for that entire game and those "gladiators" as you called them werent actually gladiators they were slaves, athletes certainly arent slaves they have a right to not play the sport if they dont want, its like racing, you can try to safeguard against collisions against a wall and cushion them but they are still gonna happen even if your not involved in the immediate collision their are chain reactions set off by other collisions, the drivers know that going in as do football players or marines as you just said alll of which have a choice.

[Gavin]

and in truth football players have as much of a risk of getting seriously hurt as I do of not waking up in the morning for that matter....the difference is is they do it doing something they love

[ColtsPRIDE11]

Kickoffs roll as part of the overall strategy ("is the team going to have to drive 80 yards, or can they reduce it) is interesting, but the actual play itself is considerably less fun to watch than any single play from scrimmage. You're fondest wish is that a track star (who probably can't even handle a normal position) gets lucky and outruns a bunch of guys up the field. That's a gimmick tacked onto the sport, and I hate it when games are decided because of it. It's not unlike the shootout at the end of tie hockey games. A lot of rapid scoring that has virtually nothing to do with the rest of the sport. I could easily do without it.

Well friend, on this one we will have to agree to disagree. I like kickoffs, and you think they are a gimmick. I think they are a play can and does have an effect of the outcome of the game, and I don't think they are trivial in the least.

To point out what I have highlighted above, I think it is a bit ridiculous to refer to Devin Hester (and players like him) as a track star who can't handle a "normal" position. (Really?) I also don't think players like Hester get "lucky" and outrun other guys. There have been many times I have seen Devin find small gaps on returns to escape being tackled (ones that look similar to RBs finding gaps on "normal" plays)--to me this takes smarts and skill.

Also, I'd like to point out that if the "bunch of other guys up the field" would do their jobs right, then players like Devin wouldn't get as many TDs.

And don't we like it on "normal" plays when a WR out runs his oponent to catch the ball and score? (And let's not even mention the possibilities of said WR getting tackled in a way that he gets seriously injured. Need we remember Collie?) Both have to catch (field) the ball and get it closer (or to) the goal--a TD.

Look, getting hit hard enough to be hurt is part of the game of football no matter what level, whether it be high school, college, or NFL. Getting hurt is always a possibility. It's a risk these guys take in their chosen profession. They're big boys, if they can't handle it then they need to find a different job. I don't think these guys are brain washed into playing football. There is a reason they began to play--they like the game, they like the competition, they like it period.

One thing I do agree on is that a lot of times guys don't know when to call it quits. They forget there is life after football. But then, there are a lot of workaholics out there in many other professions who work too much and miss out on life. Everyone makes their own decisions, and these guys are no different. They just do their jobs on a more public platform.

One last thing. I am not against trying to create good, sound rules that prevent barbaric, unnecessary behavior (such as hits that are intentional to hurt). Hitting with the intention to hurt needs to be stopped. Period. That being said, there is such a thing as too many rules. If they keep going there will be so many rules that football will no longer be the sport we all love to watch. It will, in essence, be like flag football. The players will be too scared to even raise their hands to block. I do not wish to see that.

Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. This is the case here (IMO). I'd like to see kickoffs return to how they were before the rule change.

[MAC]

Well friend, on this one we will have to agree to disagree. I like kickoffs, and you think they are a gimmick. I think they are a play can and does have an effect of the outcome of the game, and I don't think they are trivial in the least.

One last thing. I am not against trying to create good, sound rules that prevent barbaric, unnecessary behavior (such as hits that are intentional to hurt). Hitting with the intention to hurt needs to be stopped. Period. That being said, there is such a thing as too many rules. If they keep going there will be so many rules that football will no longer be the sport we all love to watch. It will, in essence, be like flag football. The players will be too scared to even raise their hands to block. I do not wish to see that.

Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. This is the case here (IMO). I'd like to see kickoffs return to how they were before the rule change.

No problem. I realize that most people will disagree with me. You should have seen the stink that I got into last year when I discussed a certain on field "hit".

[BleedingBlue]

In the future we will pay these guys $25 million a year to just play each other on Madden.

[ColtsPRIDE11]

No problem. I realize that most people will disagree with me. You should have seen the stink that I got into last year when I discussed a certain on field "hit".

! I can only imagine! I'm of the firm belief that everyone has an opinion and none of them are wrong. I do love discussing opinions though...makes me think things through throuroghly. Keep them coming my friend!