Taylor

[Dogg63]

54 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Someone posted a very interesting article on here and it had statements from Taylor, Wilkins, Hines, & Rathman.

Here's a link to the post about that article.

 

 

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, TheMose said:

No he was definitely struggling too. He obviously wasn't confident in his decision making and was running exactly where he was told the hole was going to be instead of where it actually opened. Not atypical for a rookie, of course

 

He wasn't though. To say a rookie RB with no TC is struggling is just a bad take on the surface. But Taylor wasn't even struggling...he was still clearly the best RB on the team...and ran well against MIN, NYJ, CLE and CIN...improving each week.

 

Yet this became the narrative from the media and overreactive fans (many of them who probably didn't even like the pick). And the coaching staff just fed into it with their dumb usage of Taylor. 

 

First, this narrative assumes that the OL was run blocking well. They weren't. They were near the bottom of the league in adjusted line yards during the first half of the season...and even with the improvements we have seen...they still ended up #20. It's a similar story with stuffed rate...where they finished #22 on the season. The holes haven't been there for most of the season.

 

And contrast to the second-level and open-field yards...where they rank #7 and #8. That's all Taylor...with some Hines mixed in (who often has holes you could drive a semi through). Taylor wasn't getting as many opportunities in the 1st half of the season to get to second level...but that wasn't mostly on him. That was on run blocking and how Reich used him.

 

You then have the DET game...where none of the RBs are effective...except for one good early run by Wilkins. But Taylor gets benched...and Wilkins gets some garbage time carries against a bad DET run defense...and people start talking about Wilkins taking carries from Taylor lol. 

 

Then the next game is the BAL game...and after running well and even scoring a TD on the second drive...Taylor has his ONLY turnover of the season...and they stupidly bench him (I don't remember Mack ever getting benched for fumbling)...and the Colts only manage to score 3 points over the last 3 quarters. 

 

Then you have the TEN game where TEN apparently didn't scout Hines...and Taylor has 7 carries that game. 

 

So basically you have a rookie RB who has a couple of bad games in the middle of a good (now great) rookie season. All RBs have bad games...and as you can see...those games are now outliers. And now there is this new narrative that he evolved during the season...like he suddenly became a good RB lol. He was the same guy from the CIN and CLE games that he was in the GB game. The difference in the GB game is that Reich finally (sorta) let him be. And it's a good thing...because no way do they beat GB if Reich goes away from Taylor in the 2nd half...like I am sure he was itching to do.

 

He didn't just turn into a good RB...he got the usage he should have been getting...coupled with improved run blocking and some very generous run defenses. But I eagerly await the inevitable offseason article about Taylor's incredible transformation...and how all of the credit goes to Ballard and Reich.

 

On a side note...how did Pittman not have a similar narrative? He was picked ahead of Taylor...and didn't have nearly the same impact that Taylor had in the 1st half (even when healthy). There must just be a bias against the RB position in general.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dogg63]

3 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

He didn't just turn into a good RB...he got the usage he should have been getting...coupled with improved run blocking and some very generous run defenses. But I eagerly await the inevitable offseason article about Taylor's incredible transformation...and how all of the credit goes to Ballard and Reich.

I agree with a lot of your thinking above, but not this. I am guessing you didn't go read the article that I posted in another thread and re-posted directly above your post. I recommend it. It specifically states that JT did, in fact, have some issues that needed ironing out. He did make a transformation of sorts. It's a good read, check it out.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

I think it was a combination of both.  Someone posted a very interesting article on here and it had statements from Taylor, Wilkins, Hines, & Rathman.  Taylor says that he was learning and adjusting to the game and just had to deal with the fact that he may go stretches without seeing the field.  
 

Also, he never had a training camp to gel with the offensive line.  So by Rathman not recognizing he had an every down back in Taylor & feeding him early & often to accelerate his growth & comfortability in the offense he chose to over rotate him and bring him along slowly.  I personally think bringing him along “slowly” actually cost us in 3 losses because we under used him. 
 

The good news now is that Taylor is probably as fresh as he’s ever gonna be at the end of football season.  So I say we give him 25-30 carries & 5-7 targets every playoff game and see how far he can get us.  Use him to open up things for Rivers and the rest of the offense. 
 

 

 

Exactly...you can't say a rookie RB (especially in the COVID environment) is struggling. That implies that there isn't a learning curve and adjustment...that he is going to just hit the ground running (literally). And even with that adjustment period...Taylor was doing very well...look at his box scores from Weeks 2-6.

 

Agree with the bolded 100%. I blame Rathman and Reich (because he is Rathman's boss) for Taylor's usage...which definitely played a role in how people viewed him and the delayed breakout.

 

They should have known who they drafted...a strong athletic freak who is going to wear down defenses with volume until he eventually outruns them. That was how the run offense was going to get more explosive...because eventually Taylor is going to get a big run or two. But he has to get the volume to break those runs.

 

They didn't draft some scat back to change pace with 10-12 carries per game...but it seems like that was the initial plan...which they had the luxury of doing with Mack as the RB1a. But that idea was over after Week 1...yet they sort of just moved RBs up the depth chart and went ahead as planned. 

 

 

[shasta519]

39 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

I agree with a lot of your thinking above, but not this. I am guessing you didn't go read the article that I posted in another thread and re-posted directly above your post. I recommend it. It specifically states that JT did, in fact, have some issues that needed ironing out. He did make a transformation of sorts. It's a good read, check it out.

 

I read it...and it's a very good read. But of course there was an adjustment to the NFL and new coaching...and of course he is constantly trying to improve and learn at his position. All NFL players are going through this.

 

But even both Wilkins and Taylor say you have to be true to yourself and use your talent...and fit the coaching points in where you can. And Taylor has always been that uber-athletic and uber-talented player.

 

So I just don't equate learning to struggling...and imo...it was a way overblown narrative at the time and now just looks silly...along with this idea that the GB game was any different than the CLE or CIN game. The difference was the usage. 

 

And after reading that...I now think it was even more about the coaching staff. Rathman's obviously a pretty good coach...but he sounds like a stubborn hard * coach...especially that last quote. They drafted Taylor because his speed and power "opens it up"...he makes the team much more explosive. Using term like "big-boy football" is just cliche and a bit out of touch. And there's something funny about the guy who consistently puts his 190 lb scat back in the RZ and on short yardage and goal line situations talking about getting a powerful RB like Taylor to play "big boy football." 

[PrideOfAthens17]

Apologies, as I haven't read the rest of the thread, and I didn't want to start a new one for this question, as it seems to belong here. But assuming that Herbert wins the OROY award this year, where does everyone think Taylor should finish in the vote? I know Justin Jefferson has had a great rookie year, and there are others, too, but I have to put Taylor 2nd. What do the rest of you think? Thanks.

[danlhart87]

10 minutes ago, PrideOfAthens17 said:

Apologies, as I haven't read the rest of the thread, and I didn't want to start a new one for this question, as it seems to belong here. But assuming that Herbert wins the OROY award this year, where does everyone think Taylor should finish in the vote? I know Justin Jefferson has had a great rookie year, and there are others, too, but I have to put Taylor 2nd. What do the rest of you think? Thanks.

Herbert will most likely win being a QB but Taylor should be 2nd cause Colts in playoffs 

[smittywerb]

21 hours ago, NorthernColt said:

Can't say I've seen alot of people use this comparison before, but whenever I watch him, he reminds me so much of Saquon Barkley.

 

Some people said he was better.  Some people think he was actually the best RB in CFB.  The main detraction of JT was that they thought he was a product of his OL.

[Chucklez]

2 hours ago, smittywerb said:

 

Some people said he was better.  Some people think he was actually the best RB in CFB.  The main detraction of JT was that they thought he was a product of his OL.

People thought he was a fumbling machine too, or at least had the potential to be.... he shut them up about that this year.

[Stephen]

24 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

People thought he was a fumbling machine too, or at least had the potential to be.... he shut them up about that this year.

Yea about the only rookie rb that was used just as poorly  until lately was jk dobbins.  Pittman  hasn't  been as good as I would  like either. Was hoping  for a season  similar  to justin Jefferson  or kenan Allen.  If we want to get to superbowl  we are going to  need someone else to step up at wr

[Chucklez]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

Yea about the only rookie rb that was used just as poorly  until lately was jk dobbins.  Pittman  hasn't  been as good as I would  like either. Was hoping  for a season  similar  to justin Jefferson  or kenan Allen.  If we want to get to superbowl  we are going to  need someone else to step up at wr

I was really hoping that Campbell was gonna be back this season and in time to get some on field action before the playoffs, but that obviously went up in smoke. Pittman needs to put his big-boy pants on for sure for these playoffs. Pascal too, he has been dropping a few balls lately that need to be caught, but is doing good work for a 3rd WR. Pittman really needs to step up into that WR2 role, and fast... Then he really needs to step into the WR1 role for next year, because even if TY sticks around for a year or a few more years, he aint getting any younger....

[Nickster]

21 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I'm worried about the injury though.  An achilles tear is one of the toughest injuries to come back from.  Tougher than an ACL tear.  

 

I don't know of any football player who was ever the same after an achilles tear.  

Garnett's numbers don't show that it's had a negative effect on his game though.

 

Anyone seen him play this year?  Does he look the same with explosiveness or is it more kinda veteran savvy church league type of guy now?

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Chucklez said:

I was really hoping that Campbell was gonna be back this season and in time to get some on field action before the playoffs, but that obviously went up in smoke. Pittman needs to put his big-boy pants on for sure for these playoffs. Pascal too, he has been dropping a few balls lately that need to be caught, but is doing good work for a 3rd WR. Pittman really needs to step up into that WR2 role, and fast... Then he really needs to step into the WR1 role for next year, because even if TY sticks around for a year or a few more years, he aint getting any younger....

Campbell  constantly  staying  on ir is annoying.  Was hoping  he'd be  ready for the playoffs.  Pascal is ok. He is best at blocking.  The te's are very disappointing  as far as their usage  in the passing  game. Our offensive  weapons  need some more explosiveness. A beast te or a wr like the guy from Alabama  would set us over the top offensively. Along with another Lt

[Chucklez]

20 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Campbell  constantly  staying  on ir is annoying.  Was hoping  he'd be  ready for the playoffs.  Pascal is ok. He is best at blocking.  The te's are very disappointing  as far as their usage  in the passing  game. Our offensive  weapons  need some more explosiveness. A beast te or a wr like the guy from Alabama  would set us over the top offensively. Along with another Lt

I agree, offensively we are mostly set, just need a new LT for when AC hangs em up (could even be this off season....) and I think another starting caliber WR. Need a defensive heavy draft though.

There is obviously the elephant in the room of a starting QB after Rivers, but i think we have to cross that bridge when we come to it for now. He either comes back for another year, roll the dice on Eason, or bring in another free agent / trade for one.... i dont think we draft one this year.

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, Chucklez said:

I agree, offensively we are mostly set, just need a new LT for when AC hangs em up (could even be this off season....) and I think another starting caliber WR. Need a defensive heavy draft though.

There is obviously the elephant in the room of a starting QB after Rivers, but i think we have to cross that bridge when we come to it for now. He either comes back for another year, roll the dice on Eason, or bring in another free agent / trade for one.... i dont think we draft one this year.

Have to look at next years wr class, but need a legitimate  deep threat not named Hilton. A tyreek hill or  will fuller type  player

[Chucklez]

Just now, Stephen said:

Have to look at next years wr class, but need a legitimate  deep threat not named Hilton. A tyreek hill or  will fuller type  player

John Ross from the Bengals wants out and a fresh start could be exactly what he needs. He could very well be that kind of player. Not sure if it's worth rolling the dice on him, but just throwing that out here....

[Fluke_33]

29 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Campbell  constantly  staying  on ir is annoying.  Was hoping  he'd be  ready for the playoffs.  Pascal is ok. He is best at blocking.  The te's are very disappointing  as far as their usage  in the passing  game. Our offensive  weapons  need some more explosiveness. A beast te or a wr like the guy from Alabama  would set us over the top offensively. Along with another Lt

I tried looking for an update on Campbell.  Is he still an option to return?

[Chucklez]

3 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I tried looking for an update on Campbell.  Is he still an option to return?

No, I'm pretty sure they shut him down for the year.

[aaron11]

19 hours ago, PrideOfAthens17 said:

Apologies, as I haven't read the rest of the thread, and I didn't want to start a new one for this question, as it seems to belong here. But assuming that Herbert wins the OROY award this year, where does everyone think Taylor should finish in the vote? I know Justin Jefferson has had a great rookie year, and there are others, too, but I have to put Taylor 2nd. What do the rest of you think? Thanks.

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/offensive-rookie-year-odds/

 

they only have three players in the running, taylor is third.  they have herbert essentially as a lock with those odds

[Chucklez]

6 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I tried looking for an update on Campbell.  Is he still an option to return?

 

3 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

No, I'm pretty sure they shut him down for the year.

Apologies, I'm not sure he was ever officially "shut down" for the year, but I believe around the start of December there were reports that it would be a "minor miracle" if he were to be available at all in 2020 or the playoffs.

Here is one such reference to that: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/2139271/parris-campbell

[Fluke_33]

1 minute ago, Chucklez said:

 

Apologies, I'm not sure he was ever officially "shut down" for the year, but I believe around the start of December there were reports that it would be a "minor miracle" if he were to be available at all in 2020 or the playoffs.

Here is one such reference to that: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/2139271/parris-campbell

That's what i last saw the article from keefer.  Weird that there is no follow up

[Valpo2004]

Derrick Henry's tweet about who should win Fex Ex Ground player of Week 17. 

 

 

To be fair Henry has won it 5 times this season.  

[Chucklez]

10 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

That's what i last saw the article from keefer.  Weird that there is no follow up

Must be nothing to report i guess?
(though this is dangerously off topic for this thread now).

[Caffrey]

I had a post on JT a couple months ago when his playing time and carries was limited.  I did mention I believed in him and he will get better as the games slows down for him which it has, which is great for him and us.  Not all RB's come in he see the daylight on game #1, for JT, it took a little more than half a season to find the key to success as a RB.

 

Anyway, I also mentioned his limited early carries may be and is a blessing in disguise,  as his legs are fresh and is used to a heavy workload.  I say lets give him 25+ carries against Buffalo.

 

IMHO, I would take JT over any other RB in the NFL right now. He is a young (rookie) stud RB who has is getting better and has years ahead to look forward too.  Hit Buffalo with some play action passes as well, and we can keep the Bills guessing and wear the Buffalo defense down. 

[Chucklez]

4 hours ago, Caffrey said:

I had a post on JT a couple months ago when his playing time and carries was limited.  I did mention I believed in him and he will get better as the games slows down for him which it has, which is great for him and us.  Not all RB's come in he see the daylight on game #1, for JT, it took a little more than half a season to find the key to success as a RB.

 

Anyway, I also mentioned his limited early carries may be and is a blessing in disguise,  as his legs are fresh and is used to a heavy workload.  I say lets give him 25+ carries against Buffalo.

 

IMHO, I would take JT over any other RB in the NFL right now. He is a young (rookie) stud RB who has is getting better and has years ahead to look forward too.  Hit Buffalo with some play action passes as well, and we can keep the Bills guessing and wear the Buffalo defense down. 

 

[jmac_48]

On 1/4/2021 at 11:45 AM, Nickster said:

I challenge you guys to find me saying that the guy was going to be a bust.  You can keep looking and you won't find it.

 

He was not really very good running the ball until the GB game 3Q.  There were articles starting to come out about it.  There were stats that showed that he was the least elusive RB in the league with a the minimum of carries.  He was running right into piles.

 

Since then he's been great.

 

I don't agree that I was wrong.  I said I wasn't impressed with his running and he was neither statistically nor visually impressive running until a few weeks ago IMO.  Some of you guys freak out when someone is skeptical.  

 

They started running him downhill and he looks great.

 

I bought his jersey yesterday.  First one I have purchased since Freeney.

 

And BTW, I was dead wrong in 98.  I wanted the Colts to draft Leaf.
 

BIOYA!

[Stephen]

23 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

Derrick Henry's tweet about who should win Fex Ex Ground player of Week 17. 

 

 

To be fair Henry has won it 5 times this season.  

6 times now 

[TimetobringDfence!]

23 hours ago, Chucklez said:

I agree, offensively we are mostly set, just need a new LT for when AC hangs em up (could even be this off season....) and I think another starting caliber WR. Need a defensive heavy draft though.

There is obviously the elephant in the room of a starting QB after Rivers, but i think we have to cross that bridge when we come to it for now. He either comes back for another year, roll the dice on Eason, or bring in another free agent / trade for one.... i dont think we draft one this year.

I agree I honestly rather save money and let Rivers retire or walk. Sign a cheaper Fitzpatrick type QB to compete with Eason. We have a lot of young talent we need to sign asap and keeping cap space give these young guys the motivation to be great.

[TimetobringDfence!]

Just now, TimetobringDfence! said:

I agree I honestly rather save money and let Rivers retire or walk. Sign a cheaper Fitzpatrick type QB to compete with Eason. We have a lot of young talent we need to sign asap and keeping cap space give these young guys the motivation to be great.

Ballard is amazing and I'm glad we have him years to come, his only stain on his resume in my opinion is overpaying JB and Rivers. Luck forced his hand in that though.

[TimetobringDfence!]

3 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Ballard is amazing and I'm glad we have him years to come, his only stain on his resume in my opinion is overpaying JB and Rivers. Luck forced his hand in that though.

I take back the Rivers part had to get a guy in here that was capable. But I just never understood paying JB when he never proved or earned anything. Dont pay a man to make him feel like the man, make him be it to earn the pay. Outside of that one mistake Ballard is lights out and is the best GM in football.

[stitches]

I've said before about Mack that I really like him but he leaves yards on the field. I think Taylor is the polar opposite in that regard. He trucks people, drags them forward, blows up arm tackles like they are nothing... feet don't stop churning even when initially stopped. I love his running style. He's been very very good, especially the second half of the season. I'm so happy that he finally got the confidence he seemed to have lost initially. He is a very very good RB talent and I will love watching him going forward.

[ztboiler]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

I've said before about Mack that I really like him but he leaves yards on the field. I think Taylor is the polar opposite in that regard. He trucks people, drags them forward, blows up arm tackles like they are nothing... feet don't stop churning even when initially stopped. I love his running style. He's been very very good, especially the second half of the season. I'm so happy that he finally got the confidence he seemed to have lost initially. He is a very very good RB talent and I will love watching him going forward.

I've hoped Mack would sign his inevitable 1 yr prove it deal with the Colts...but that doesn't look like his best choice at the moment.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, ztboiler said:

I've hoped Mack would sign his inevitable 1 yr prove it deal with the Colts...but that doesn't look like his best choice at the moment.

I would gladly take Mack back on a 1 year prove it deal... I think he can still help this team even with Taylor taking a primary role. 

[ztboiler]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

I would gladly take Mack back on a 1 year prove it deal... I think he can still help this team even with Taylor taking a primary role. 

No doubt about it...but he needs carries to get back in line at payroll...seems like a lot of teams out there with a better committee situation than a pairing with JT.