Why We Ought To Afford Jim Some Trust

[braveheartcolt]

If Irsay didn't want a $90 million dollar QB, he shouldn't have signed him in the first place, surgery or not.

I think he wanted a QB, not a bystander. Two different things.

[John Dee]

I think he wanted a QB, not a bystander. Two different things.

This is NOT talked about enough... Irsay and Polian are on record they signed PM on "good faith"..

I think Manning and his agent may have pulled a fast one on Indy banking on Irsay's "blind loyalty" to the player...

This thing goes deep kids... ....

[ruksak]

I think he wanted a QB, not a bystander. Two different things.

I'd like to address two silly things I keep hearing being parroted about.

1) The cost of Manning's contract.

People keep talking about how his salary crippled our cap. Why then give him such a contract? If he wasn't injured, it would have affected the cap in the same way.

Moot point

2) The fact that he missed an entire season from injury.

Every player on every roster on every team face this risk. We see it every year, players get hurt early on or even in training camp. Big-time players with big-time salaries get paid to sit. So could we please stop trying to make it seem like Manning absconded nefariously with Irsay's money and somehow should be made to pay for it.

[braveheartcolt]

I'd like to address two silly things I keep hearing being parroted about.

1) The cost of Manning's contract.

People keep talking about how his salary crippled our cap. Why then give him such a contract? If he wasn't injured, it would have affected the cap in the same way.

Moot point

2) The fact that he missed an entire season from injury.

Every player on every roster on every team face this risk. We see it every year, players get hurt early on or even in training camp. Big-time players with big-time salaries get paid to sit. So could we please stop trying to make it seem like Manning absconded nefariously with Irsay's money and somehow should be made to pay for it.

I'm not blaming the GOAT for anything. I'm just in despair at the hate (you calling him a liar for one) for Jim.

[GoColts8818]

He has yet to show he can win without Peyton. Until then, I will not trust

He took over as owner in 95 pretty much three years before Peyton got here in those three years they went to the playoffs twice and were a play away from the super bowl. I don't know about you but to me that's winning without Peyton.

[The Peytonator]

Man I can't wait for some Football!!!

This last season really sucked.

[Warhorse]

In my opinion, Jim Irsay wants this team to win more than any fan on this forum, and has consistently put his money to task to achieve that goal. I don't understand every decision he makes, but he doesn't owe me any explanation, either. Until the team reverts to some pre-1998 state of continual crappiness, I'm inclined to trust that Irsay is doing what he thinks is best for the success of the club, and to trust that he knows better than me (and the rest of you on this forum too).

Amen.

[GoColts8818]

He's earned it. Peyton has not.

Maybe to you but I can see how some might want to hate Peyton if they believe he wanted out. Personally I don't hate or see a reason to need to hate either. I like and respect both.

[ruksak]

I'm not blaming the GOAT for anything. I'm just in despair at the hate (you calling him a liar for one) for Jim.

Well, I won't be doing that again for one thing. It's against forum rules, as well it sends the faulty sentiment of hate.

I don't hate him. I'm mad at him. I'm disappointed in him. He owns the horseshoe on my head, on my jeep, on my key-chain and hoodie. I sport his companies logo, so to speak. So if I hate him I'm either a sadist of sorts or a hypocrite.

Just because I question him, it doesn't mean I hate him. I do question his decisions but not his motives. He wants the team to win. It breaks my heart when I read self proclaimed "ex-colts fans" over at the Broncos fan forum espousing hatred for Irsay and the franchise. I visit there myself and plan on following Manning's career quite closely as a surrogate Broncos fan.

But I would never trade the horse shoe for a donkey. When Manning retires, they can burn in hades for all I care. I just wanted to get that straight right here and now.

[ruksak]

He took over as owner in 95 pretty much three years before Peyton got here in those three years they went to the playoffs twice and were a play away from the super bowl. I don't know about you but to me that's winning without Peyton.

He took over in April 1996. At years end they lost in the Wildcard round 42-14 to the Steelers. He did not officially take over as chief executive officer until 1997 after wresting control of the team from his wicked stepmother in a long legal battle.

I stand by what I said. He has yet to prove he can win without Peyton Manning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Irsay

After his father suffered a stroke in 1995 Jim assumed day-to-day management with the role of Senior Executive Vice President, General Manager and Chief Operating Officer in April 1996. When his father died in 1997 Jim engaged in a legal battle with his stepmother over ownership of the team, but later became the youngest NFL team owner at that time at 37. He controls 100% of the franchise.

http://www.angelfire.com/ia3/colts5/irsay.htm

[ruksak]

Maybe to you but I can see how some might want to hate Peyton if they believe he wanted out. Personally I don't hate or see a reason to need to hate either. I like and respect both.

I only meant that there can be cause shown for disdain in concern to Irsay. Nothing, not one thing can give any Colts fan even a smidge of due cause for disdain in concern to Manning.

[ruksak]

Man I can't wait for some Football!!!

This last season really sucked.

This is most important. If things go well we can truly put our demons to rest. What made last season so bad was the blind-side punch of irrelevance that none of us were prepared for.

We may well struggle in 2012, but we should be braced for it. That is why I get irritated when folks saunter in here preaching about us getting to the playoffs and dominating the division in 2012. Those will be the first folks to panic and freak if things don't go well. We need to be measured and patient in the coming years.

[ruksak]

Amen.

Tebow, is that you?

[The Peytonator]

This is most important. If things go well we can truly put our demons to rest. What made last season so bad was the blind-side punch of irrelevance that none of us were prepared for.

We may well struggle in 2012, but we should be braced for it. That is why I get irritated when folks saunter in here preaching about us getting to the playoffs and dominating the division in 2012. Those will be the first folks to panic and freak if things don't go well. We need to be measured and patient in the coming years.

That's for sure. I can say with a totally straight face, I did not expect a Quarterback Carousel of Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, and Dan Orlovsky for the 2011 season at this time last year.

[ruksak]

That's for sure. I can say with a totally straight face, I did not expect a Quarterback Carousel of Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, and Dan Orlovsky for the 2011 season at this time last year.

I've always made fun of Painter before 2011. When he took the field during that Pittsburgh game early in 2011 I had this weird feeling he was gonna shock us all and emerge as our seasons savior. Like some silly underdog story from a Hollywood movie, I had this weird feeling it would happen. Gee whiz that woulda been neat.

After the KC game I gave up.

[Superman]

Well I always believe in chances but that doesn't mean I like the way things were handled in the least. I was disappointed at the way Irsay handled this but that was his choice and now he has to live with it and see how it pans out.

It's easy to find a problem with the way someone did something when you dislike what they did. I personally don't care how Irsay handled it, I wouldn't have liked it either way. I hate that he got rid of Manning, and regardless how it plays out, I'll always hate it. I don't know if he did the right thing, but I understand why he did it. And I like the decisions he's made aside from that one. I like the decisions his appointed decision makers have made.

My comment above was directed toward the idea that, because the Colts' success has been with Manning, that Irsay is somehow deficient without Manning, and unable to be a good owner. In reality, virtually all of Irsay's ownership has been with Manning, with only a couple years exception. Bill Polian is one of the best GMs in NFL history, regardless how his last couple of years went here, and Polian isn't the Colts GM without Irsay. Dungy is one of the best coaches in franchise history (I have my nits to pick with him, to be sure), and there's no Dungy in Indy without Irsay. Dare I say there's no Manning in Indy without Irsay. The idea that the Colts have been successful in spite of Irsay is asinine. He's been directly involved in every major decision for over 15 years, and that includes drafting Manning.

So, go ahead and hate this decision all you want. I hate it, too. But it's entirely another thing to suggest that Irsay has to prove that he's a good owner. The last fifteen years have featured very good ownership.

[The Peytonator]

I've always made fun of Painter before 2011. When he took the field during that Pittsburgh game early in 2011 I had this weird feeling he was gonna shock us all and emerge as our seasons savior. Like some silly underdog story from a Hollywood movie, I had this weird feeling it would happen. Gee whiz that woulda been neat.

After the KC game I gave up.

You know this whole season's kind of a blur, but I think I had the same kind of thoughts/visions during and even after that Pburgh game. I might need a refund on my clairvoyancy class.

[Superman]

I think jim is willing to put the entire franchise at risk of sinking cause of his man crush on andrew luck. Future.. argue what you want. the guy out right lied. so, sure go trust a guy that just put the colts in one of the worst positions I have ever seen this franchise in. dump off over 3/4 of your vets.. ya.. good move there jim.

and before all of you start harassing and calling me names, remember this.. just beacause i dont agree with you, doesnt make you anymore right.

any post that kisses jims butt is a good post to you. just as the luck lovers are all gushy over anti manning threads. psh. ridiculous.

[Robert Johnson]

Man I can't wait for some Football!!!

This last season really sucked.

I'll drink to that,evrything else is a moot point.this will be Luck's team now.I enjoyed the ride with Peyton,now we are entering a new era.

[Peytongirl]

Wow, in all of the major developments that were tweeted about back in September, who knew then that the "Blue Sea" (of Colts fans) would be parted so horribly and deeply...down to the bare dry ground? I wonder if these outcomes were considered or expected.

So very sad to bear witness to.

[Robert Johnson]

I will say one thing for Irsay ,he has some cool guitars

[The Peytonator]

I will say one thing for Irsay ,he has some cool guitars

I'd probably have some cool guitars too if I owned an NFL team.

[HungarianColtsFan]

I feel like I am watching the movie the Hunt For Red October wherein the sub caption was so focused on one end that he shot the torpedo that sunk his own ship.

Don't forget: other sub's maneuver caused self torpedoing...

[ruksak]

Wow, in all of the major developments that were tweeted about back in September, who knew then that the "Blue Sea" (of Colts fans) would be parted so horribly and deeply...down to the bare dry ground? I wonder if these outcomes were considered or expected.

So very sad to bear witness to.

Time heals all wounds, PG. This ship will get right again. Most people didn't even have a computer in their home, let alone internet/fan forum access, the last time our team was seen by NFL fans as losers. So our experience with Colts fan forums has been quite pleasant and happy compared to most teams.

I think whats caused the greatest damage to fan morale is the obliteration of our pride. We've been so proud for so long. I wore my Manning jersey while shopping at Krogers yesterday. People were looking at me like I was naked or something. Sadly, the time has come when people are mocked for wearing their Colts gear. Actually, it's been that way since October.

[Robert Johnson]

Time heals all wounds, PG. This ship will get right again. Most people didn't even have a computer in their home, let alone internet/fan forum access, The last time our team was seen by NFL fans as losers. So our experience with Colts fan forums has been quite pleasant and happy compared to most teams.

I think whats caused the greatest damage to fan morale is the obliteration of our pride. We've been so proud for so long. I wore my Manning jersey while shopping at Krogers yesterday. People were looking at me like I was naked or something. Sadly, the time has come when people are mocked for wearing their Colts gear. Actually, it's been that way since October.

I agree,once we start winning again it will help heal some of the wounds.People are still getting over losing Peyton and losing alot of games.Alot of the younger fans don't remember the times before Peyton.It's been a tough year for Colts fans to swallow.

[JTcardscolts]

From the time Bob Irsay bought the franchise in 1972, until Jim Irsay took 100% ownership of the Colts in 1997, the Colts had two 10 win seasons (’75 and ’77), one 11 win season (’76), and only six playoff appearances in 25 years. Bob's teams' record was 151-229, or roughly 40%.

After Jim officially took over ownership, the team has had at least 10 wins and has made the playoffs in all but 4 years. The regular season record under JI has been 146-94, or roughly 61%, and that includes his first 2 years with 3 wins apiece, and last year. Even if you want to credit Polian, Dungy or Manning for the sudden success, Irsay deserves acknowledgement for assembling that group, and spending money to bring quality football to Indianapolis, where his dad had been too cheap to try.

I’m inclined to trust his vision and plan for this next chapter of Colts Football, in part because I don’t think people recognize just how challenging it was to take a perennial bottom feeder squad, and turn it into one of the classiest and best teams in the league. I get that people are afraid because so much is changing. I have no idea what I’ll get to see on the field this next season (although I like the moves I’m seeing so far), or in seasons after that. However, I am inclined to give Irsay credit because he’s handled what I believe was a much tougher challenge 15 years ago.

I hear people say free agents won’t want to come to Indy now because Irsay has allowed Grigson to clean house. I don’t agree, but if you think that to be the case now, how do imagine Irsay convinced players, coaches, staffers, and a great GM to come to this small market team with a long and awful history of losing and tight pockets back in 1997?

In my opinion, Jim Irsay wants this team to win more than any fan on this forum, and has consistently put his money to task to achieve that goal. I don't understand every decision he makes, but he doesn't owe me any explanation, either. Until the team reverts to some pre-1998 state of continual crappiness, I'm inclined to trust that Irsay is doing what he thinks is best for the success of the club, and to trust that he knows better than me (and the rest of you on this forum too).

I wonder how much revenue LOS and the selling of colts merchandise bring in.

I wonder if it's enough to cover all the players and employees salaries.

It just always get me when people say he's spending his money...

I guess it's true...but hes spending his money that WE gave to him, on a team that was given to him by his father...

So I hope he starts to spend OUR money a bit more wisely...

[HungarianColtsFan]

I got an headache reading this thread...

Please note: no one lied to anyone... PM and Irsay made a mutual decision that benefits both parties. Its hard to accept, but Colts wouldn't be a winning team even with Manning next season. We had a lot of holes on the roster. Rebuilding was necessary, and Irsay needed money for that. PM wanted a team to win with, and being in the race for SB. Irsay freed a cap space, and Manning has a contender team. No one deserved any hate in this story.

I hope thing will clear up in upcoming weeks, and we can focus on our team and football, instead of hating.

Peace, Colts' Fans!!!! Please!!!!

[braveheartcolt]

Well, I won't be doing that again for one thing. It's against forum rules, as well it sends the faulty sentiment of hate.

I don't hate him. I'm mad at him. I'm disappointed in him. He owns the horseshoe on my head, on my jeep, on my key-chain and hoodie. I sport his companies logo, so to speak. So if I hate him I'm either a sadist of sorts or a hypocrite.

Just because I question him, it doesn't mean I hate him. I do question his decisions but not his motives. He wants the team to win. It breaks my heart when I read self proclaimed "ex-colts fans" over at the Broncos fan forum espousing hatred for Irsay and the franchise. I visit there myself and plan on following Manning's career quite closely as a surrogate Broncos fan.

But I would never trade the horse shoe for a donkey. When Manning retires, they can burn in hades for all I care. I just wanted to get that straight right here and now.

Yes, I understand. People do 'hate' him for it. But my use of your 'liar' comment was poor judgement. Didn't mean to offend. Apologies. I know your passion, and I admire it, like many on here.

What really bugs me most is the unequivical belief that both camps seem to know what went down. Both camps pick out convenient little soundbites, rhetoric, and quotes to support that they know what happened. We do not have a clue. I prefer to roll with it, and not care who said what, or who did this. It's over.

Sure, I get drawn in, and when I do, I tend to stick up for Irsay, as he is a Colt, rather than Peyton, who is not. It certainly doesn't make me right though....

We really need the Draft to get us back on track.......

[Nadine]

I think jim is willing to put the entire franchise at risk of sinking cause of his man crush on andrew luck. Future.. argue what you want. the guy out right lied. so, sure go trust a guy that just put the colts in one of the worst positions I have ever seen this franchise in. dump off over 3/4 of your vets.. ya.. good move there jim.

and before all of you start harassing and calling me names, remember this.. just beacause i dont agree with you, doesnt make you anymore right.

any post that kisses jims butt is a good post to you. just as the luck lovers are all gushy over anti manning threads. psh. ridiculous.

And your point is that no one will ever change their minds on this topic? I agree with that.

But please when you post that any post that disagrees with your opinion is 'kissing jims..." and you call them luck lovers and anti manning......... you are being inflammatory.

Please people, if you choose to be in this discussion, show some respect for your fellow posters

else I will need to close this thread

[ruksak]

Yes, I understand. People do 'hate' him for it. But my use of your 'liar' comment was poor judgement. Didn't mean to offend. Apologies. I know your passion, and I admire it, like many on here.

No need for apologies, you did not offend me. I said it in exactly the manner you mentioned. It was unwise to do so for a variety of reasons.

What really bugs me most is the unequivical belief that both camps seem to know what went down. Both camps pick out convenient little soundbites, rhetoric, and quotes to support that they know what happened.

The worst part in all this is that there are two camps, not one. This forum used to be the digital equivalent of a tailgate party.

I prefer to roll with it, and not care who said what, or who did this. It's over.

Awesome attitude but consider this; We all seem to have no issue volleying complaints when a player performs poorly or otherwise causes undue hardship on the team. Irsay doesn't take the field, he doesn't handle the ball or tackle opponents. His game is off the field. His game is management. I wouldn't want his job, though his paycheck would be quite nice. When he makes mistakes, perceived or actual, I see no reason why he should enjoy protection from fan retort.

My comment about his honesty was spawned from emotion. Truth is, my insult aimed at him was purely speculative. Real easy for me to sit here and sip coffee while painting figurative bulleyes on people I've never even met.

Sure, I get drawn in, and when I do, I tend to stick up for Irsay, as he is a Colt....

More than that, he is THE Colt. The only one that can never be cut, released, fired or otherwise let go.

We really need the Draft to get us back on track.......

Correct! We need something to up the morale. What have we had as Colts fans to focus on? The lockout. Manning's surgery. The revelation that Manning may be out for the season. A 2-14 season and two weeks ago Manning is released. Then just a few days ago we get to see the face of our franchise holding an orange jersey, rubbing elbows with John Elway and talking about winning a SB NOW.

What I see there is an escalating timeline of one punch in the gut after another, ever worsening. A good draft will break this trend and give us some sense of what this team even is. As training camp fires up we get a chance to see who actually plays on our team. I think by then we'll be healed and those of us (me) that aren't so measured and controlled will begin to look forward.

[schwamm]

I wonder how much revenue LOS and the selling of colts merchandise bring in.

I wonder if it's enough to cover all the players and employees salaries.

It just always get me when people say he's spending his money...

I guess it's true...but hes spending his money that WE gave to him, on a team that was given to him by his father...

So I hope he starts to spend OUR money a bit more wisely...

How is this even logical. Are you seriously suggesting a business owner NOT make money? He is offering a product that people want to buy. When you "give" him money, it affords you the right to wear the gear or attend the games. That's all. You don't own any part of the team at that point, so he owes you nothing further. If you decide you no longer like what he has to sell, you always have the right to spend your money elsewhere.

Irsay puts up more money than you can imagine before any of us spend a dime. That is called risk. There is always the chance that you and enough of your peers will stop buying jerseys and stop attending games to the point where he is no longer profitable. That is absolutely your right, and nobody will stop you. If on the other hand, you are replaced by enough of these Luck fanatics, and Irsay remains profitable, that is why he is in business in the first place. That is his reward for taking the financial risk, and his just due.

[Balzer40]

How is this even logical. Are you seriously suggesting a business owner NOT make money? He is offering a product that people want to buy. When you "give" him money, it affords you the right to wear the gear or attend the games. That's all. You don't own any part of the team at that point, so he owes you nothing further. If you decide you no longer like what he has to sell, you always have the right to spend your money elsewhere.

Irsay puts up more money than you can imagine before any of us spend a dime. That is called risk. There is always the chance that you and enough of your peers will stop buying jerseys and stop attending games to the point where he is no longer profitable. That is absolutely your right, and nobody will stop you. If on the other hand, you are replaced by enough of these Luck fanatics, and Irsay remains profitable, that is why he is in business in the first place. That is his reward for taking the financial risk, and his just due.

This is a great response. Absolutely hilarious when some fans think they could run a NFL franchise better than the owner and their ideas are so much better when in fact, most if not all fans would absolutely destroy a franchise in a matter of a year or 2 if they actually had the chance to do things their way.

[DG1]

This is a great response. Absolutely hilarious when some fans think they could run a NFL franchise better than the owner and their ideas are so much better when in fact, most if not all fans would absolutely destroy a franchise in a matter of a year or 2 if they actually had the chance to do things their way.

If you play Madden while staying at a Holiday Inn Express, then you too can think and become like an NFL owner.

[Portage Coltfans]

IIrsay hasn't done anything yet to improve this team, only time will tell. Stop giving him gold medals before the race has been run.

Irsay has turned the horseshoe upside down

until Luck wins a superbowl or Manning retires he doesn't deserve a break from fans who want to voice their opinion about what he's done to the horseshoe. To say it has improved it is just an opinion, just like my saying he's made a huge mistake.

[Portage Coltfans]

I will say one thing for Irsay ,he has some cool guitars

you would too if your dad left you an NFL team and a boat load of $$, that doens't make him smart or qualified to run his team though

[Portage Coltfans]

I got an headache reading this thread...

Please note: no one lied to anyone... PM and Irsay made a mutual decision that benefits both parties. Its hard to accept, but Colts wouldn't be a winning team even with Manning next season. We had a lot of holes on the roster. Rebuilding was necessary, and Irsay needed money for that. PM wanted a team to win with, and being in the race for SB. Irsay freed a cap space, and Manning has a contender team. No one deserved any hate in this story.

I hope thing will clear up in upcoming weeks, and we can focus on our team and football, instead of hating.

Peace, Colts' Fans!!!! Please!!!!

only one thing will ever solve this: A superbowl win

[HungarianColtsFan]

only one thing will ever solve this: A superbowl win

What a cure...

[LBandant21]

I think the idea that Peyton being cut from the team was a mutual decision is ludicrious. Peyton said that up until the day before his farewell press conference that he thought he was stilll going to be a Colt. I believe that he wanted to be.

I understand the logical arguments for why Irsay "had" to do what he did. But just think, what if we'd won just ONE more game and the team didn't have the 1st pick of the draft? Would Irsay have sucked it up and paid Peyton's bonus? I also can't really understand how, knowing Peyton wasn't healthy, that they entered into a contract structured such that Peyton was due that $28million bonus in March. Why do that if you "couldn't afford it" or "needed to rebuild."

I, for one, would have rather have had 3 or 4 more years with Peyton than to blow up the entire team and "rebuild". There will ALWAYS be another, what the media deems to be a "can't miss" QB prospect. Make another run with Peyton for a few more years. Let him retire a Colt. Draft the next big thing when the time comes.

But now that's not to be.

I probably will NEVER forgive Irsay for cutting Peyton. Ever. Does that mean I won't root for the Colts or that they're still not my team? No. But I truly believe that there was a way to make things work out. But that Irsay took the easy way out and blew the team to pieces rather than repair it.

[schwamm]

IIrsay hasn't done anything yet to improve this team, only time will tell. Stop giving him gold medals before the race has been run.

Irsay has turned the horseshoe upside down

until Luck wins a superbowl or Manning retires he doesn't deserve a break from fans who want to voice their opinion about what he's done to the horseshoe. To say it has improved it is just an opinion, just like my saying he's made a huge mistake.

Since I can't be sure who you are responding to, I'll assume it was my original post in this thread... but I'm confused... where am I awarding anybody medals? If you aren't responding to me, where has anybody handed out these awards?

Sometimes, when a potted plant gets root-bound, you need to remove it from the old pot, break up the root ball, and start with a fresh new pot. If you don't, the plant won't grow any more, and could die altogether.

You suggest Irsay hasn't done anything yet. You are entitle to that opinion, but I think you're wearing blinders. I think he has recognized that our team was getting root bound, and that it was time for major up-rooting. If that is turning the Horseshoe upside down, then yes he has, but I contend that it was absolutely necessary, regardless of how unpopular it has been. I don't know if it will lead to improvement or not, but it doesn't change the necessity of the action.

[schwamm]

I think the idea that Peyton being cut from the team was a mutual decision is ludicrious. Peyton said that up until the day before his farewell press conference that he thought he was stilll going to be a Colt. I believe that he wanted to be.

I understand the logical arguments for why Irsay "had" to do what he did. But just think, what if we'd won just ONE more game and the team didn't have the 1st pick of the draft? Would Irsay have sucked it up and paid Peyton's bonus? I also can't really understand how, knowing Peyton wasn't healthy, that they entered into a contract structured such that Peyton was due that $28million bonus in March. Why do that if you "couldn't afford it" or "needed to rebuild."

I, for one, would have rather have had 3 or 4 more years with Peyton than to blow up the entire team and "rebuild". There will ALWAYS be another, what the media deems to be a "can't miss" QB prospect. Make another run with Peyton for a few more years. Let him retire a Colt. Draft the next big thing when the time comes.

But now that's not to be.

I probably will NEVER forgive Irsay for cutting Peyton. Ever. Does that mean I won't root for the Colts or that they're still not my team? No. But I truly believe that there was a way to make things work out. But that Irsay took the easy way out and blew the team to pieces rather than repair it.

All valid points, I'm sure, but I'm getting tired of the repetitive "he lied, I will never trust him" argument with nothing new introduced to back up the claim.

Look... I like Manning. I wish he could have finished his career here, just like you. But you could just as easily argue that Irsay redid the contract last year because he didn't have all the information about Manning's injury. If Manning was professing his desire to remain a Colt up to the last minute, why didn't he push harder to allow a restructured contract to happen? Why didn't he come back after getting cut to redo the contract? Are these reasons to believe Manning "lied"? Is it fair to assume we should no longer trust him?

Let's bring a dose of reality to this discussion. Both parties did what had to be done. Neither party is to blame or entirely blameless. The 2011 season unfolded the way it did, and none of the "ifs and buts" in the world can change what happened now. The team is where it is, Manning is no longer a Colt, and we await the results of the changes being made. You can either face the changes with a mix of healthy trepidation and anticipation, or you can sit back and take pot shots. I'm of the belief that the sniping isn't fruitful... to you or anyone else... but that is just my opinion.