Why We Ought To Afford Jim Some Trust

[jvan1973]

1) Compared to the $26.4 million paid by the Colts for 2011 and the option bonus of $28 million due in early March, the $18million is substantially less risky.

2) Regardless of whether PM can play to the expected PM level, the Tebowmaniacs will tear Elway a new one, as the Peyton fans are attempting to tear Irsay a new one.

3) Yes, a new contract could have been drawn up, but wasn't. What we don't know is why.

18 million is still a huge chunk of the cap for a guy who isnt "healthy"

[Fx Stryker]

Like I said, I don't like every decision Irsay has made, but I absolutely trust that every decision he makes is based on an intention of making the team better or keeping it great, even when they turn out to be wrong.

As a business owner, I am risking being wrong with every decision I make, which amount to hundreds or thousands a day. Some carry the burden of considerable money on the line. And I make mistakes. But I can't afford not to dust myself off and work to honor the next decision with my best intentions and the latest and greatest information I can collect. Likewise, I don't have the luxury of waiting around for all possible information before I sometimes am forced to make a call, so I have to make judgement calls all the time.

Trust me, my pressures, risks and rewards are a drop in the bucket compared to Jim's.

I understand where you are coming from, but when Irsay was presented the opportunity to step up and be the leader of this team he passed the buck. So I find it hard to see why we should back him when he only realizes now what he should have done before. He only did it because it was blatantly obvious. Painter doesn't choke we still suffer a mediocre coach and a below average GM compared to his father.

[MEAT]

It is rather embarrassing the level of hate Peyton Manning is receiving by "Colt" Fans.

[UndecidedFrog]

18 million is still a huge chunk of the cap for a guy who isnt "healthy"

$28 million is a huger chunk, especially after having paid $26.4 million for nothing.

[TWR1993]

It is rather embarrassing the level of hate Peyton Manning is receiving by "Colt" Fans.

It is also rather embarrassing the level of hate Jim Irsay is receiving by "Colt" fans.

[MEAT]

<p>

It is also rather embarrassing the level of hate Jim Irsay is receiving by "Colt" fans.

True, sometimes that comes with the territory.

[ruksak]

It is also rather embarrassing the level of hate Jim Irsay is receiving by "Colt" fans.

He's earned it. Peyton has not.

[ruksak]

$28 million is a huger chunk, especially after having paid $26.4 million for nothing.

Nothing?

We paid $26.4mm to KEEP HIM. Then we get rid of him. Thats what made it "for nothing".

[UndecidedFrog]

Nothing?

We paid $26.4mm to KEEP HIM. Then we get rid of him. Thats what made it "for nothing".

Yes, we paid $26.4 million to keep PM on roster for 2011, but what did he contribute? 1 yard? 1 play? or was it truthfully, and painful as it may be to admit it,......nothing.

[jemack]

It is also rather embarrassing the level of hate Jim Irsay is receiving by "Colt" fans.

I wouldn't call it hate. But some are angry with his decision

[ruksak]

Yes, we paid $26.4 million to keep PM on roster for 2011, but what did he contribute? 1 yard? 1 play? or was it truthfully, and painful as it may be to admit it,......nothing.

That's not the point. We signed him knowing his troubles, apparently doing so for retention purposes. Then we kick him. That is what wasted the $26.4 million. His contribution for that $26.4 million will be with Denver. We might as well have given it to them with a card that says "Best Wishes".

[UndecidedFrog]

That's not the point. We signed him knowing his troubles, apparently doing so for retention purposes. Then we kick him. That is what wasted the $26.4 million. His contribution for that $26.4 million will be with Denver. We might as well have given it to them with a card that says "Best Wishes".

We did not sign anything.

The Colts signed him expecting that his neck/nerve/arm would be healed in time for him to contribute in 2011. PM signed with that same expectation.

Obviously, that didn't happen.

That's why it was a wasted $26.4 million.

And the Colts did not want to pay another $28 million on top of that, and risk putting the team in cap space heck for years to come.

That's why the Colts released PM.

[JoKeR]

Nothing?

We paid $26.4mm to KEEP HIM. Then we get rid of him. Thats what made it "for nothing".

I was extremely mad too before I watched the press conference and the airport footage, it became obvious to me that Irsay and Manning were telling the truth that they came to an agreement about a release.

The way you talk about this you make it sound like he was fired and had no say in the matter. In Peyton's own words and actions, that's not true.

[schwamm]

I understand where you are coming from, but when Irsay was presented the opportunity to step up and be the leader of this team he passed the buck. So I find it hard to see why we should back him when he only realizes now what he should have done before. He only did it because it was blatantly obvious. Painter doesn't choke we still suffer a mediocre coach and a below average GM compared to his father.

I guess I'll have to agree to disagree.

1. I don't see how he passed any buck. Recognizing ones own shortcomings and figuring out how to compensate for them is actually a good thing.

2. Find me ANYONE who hasn't made any mistakes, and I'll show you a liar.

3. Does nobody remember that it was Peyton who wanted the stability of Caldwell? That it was Peyton's contract that cost the team so much that there wasn't enough left under the cap to fill all the holes, such that Painter became the best backup the team could afford? I'm not blaming or hating on Peyton, but revisionist histories don't sit well with me.

[Fx Stryker]

3. Does nobody remember that it was Peyton who wanted the stability of Caldwell? That it was Peyton's contract that cost the team so much that there wasn't enough left under the cap to fill all the holes, such that Painter became the best backup the team could afford? I'm not blaming or hating on Peyton, but revisionist histories don't sit well with me.

Wasn't it Irsay who paraded around bragging he wanted Peyton the highest paid player ever? Then when he was informed he can't do then he comes out and says, "You can't pay a guy $25 million a year." Although a week before he was spouting he intended on doing that very thing. If it wasn't for Peyton saying something they wouldn't have been able to keep the stability of Joe in the backfield. It was also Irsay who also gave Joe that huge contract. Jim is nothing more than a fan that owns a team. He hasn't made a smart business decision unless it hit him right in the face.

[ruksak]

I was extremely mad too before I watched the press conference and the airport footage, it became obvious to me that Irsay and Manning were telling the truth that they came to an agreement about a release.

The way you talk about this you make it sound like he was fired and had no say in the matter. In Peyton's own words and actions, that's not true.

Peyton was fired and had no choice. Maybe if he got on his knees and started crying and begging while kissing Irsay's feet?

He is too smart and too professional to do anything but handle the reality quite amicably.

[JJ4JC]

Although this is my first post, I have been reading forum posts for months now and wanted to take an opportunity to chime in on the Peyton Manning issue. I have been a Colts fan for 25+ years now and have been to 75% of the home games since 1987 (hopefully that gives me a small bit of credibility here). Anyway, I have been closely following this soap opera for weeks now, reading every quote and story that I can get ahold of. Now that the dust is starting to settle, I have to admit that I feel very betrayed by 18 and take it much more personal than I probably should.

Loyalty to me means through thick and thin, and like Kravitz wrote today, Peyton wanted nothing to do with rebuilding. He chose to take his talents elsewhere and compete for championships. While I don't blame him for that, I do find it rather repulsive for him to stand up at press conferences and act disheartened that he can't finish as a Colt and suggest that this was not his doing. Please, call it what it is. If Peyton wanted to be a Colt, he would be a Colt today, period.

I am most grateful for what he has done here and will proudly store away my $180 jersey for a later time. I hope someday he returns to Indy and takes his proper place in Colts history (or front office) but until then, I am a Colts fan and I support one team, our team, and our players.

[Jules]

Although this is my first post, I have been reading forum posts for months now and wanted to take an opportunity to chime in on the Peyton Manning issue. I have been a Colts fan for 25+ years now and have been to 75% of the home games since 1987 (hopefully that gives me a small bit of credibility here). Anyway, I have been closely following this soap opera for weeks now, reading every quote and story that I can get ahold of. Now that the dust is starting to settle, I have to admit that I feel very betrayed by 18 and take it much more personal than I probably should.

Loyalty to me means through thick and thin, and like Kravitz wrote today, Peyton wanted nothing to do with rebuilding. He chose to take his talents elsewhere and compete for championships. While I don't blame him for that, I do find it rather repulsive for him to stand up at press conferences and act disheartened that he can't finish as a Colt and suggest that this was not his doing. Please, call it what it is. If Peyton wanted to be a Colt, he would be a Colt today, period.

I am most grateful for what he has done here and will proudly store away my $180 jersey for a later time. I hope someday he returns to Indy and takes his proper place in Colts history (or front office) but until then, I am a Colts fan and I support one team, our team, and our players.

An intelligent new voice.

Thank the heavens.

[ruksak]

We did not sign anything.

The Colts signed him expecting that his neck/nerve/arm would be healed in time for him to contribute in 2011. PM signed with that same expectation.

Obviously, that didn't happen.

That's why it was a wasted $26.4 million.

And the Colts did not want to pay another $28 million on top of that, and risk putting the team in cap space heck for years to come.

That's why the Colts released PM.

If Irsay didn't want a $90 million dollar QB, he shouldn't have signed him in the first place, surgery or not.

[ruksak]

Although this is my first post, I have been reading forum posts for months now and wanted to take an opportunity to chime in on the Peyton Manning issue. I have been a Colts fan for 25+ years now and have been to 75% of the home games since 1987 (hopefully that gives me a small bit of credibility here). Anyway, I have been closely following this soap opera for weeks now, reading every quote and story that I can get ahold of. Now that the dust is starting to settle, I have to admit that I feel very betrayed by 18 and take it much more personal than I probably should.

Loyalty to me means through thick and thin, and like Kravitz wrote today, Peyton wanted nothing to do with rebuilding. He chose to take his talents elsewhere and compete for championships. While I don't blame him for that, I do find it rather repulsive for him to stand up at press conferences and act disheartened that he can't finish as a Colt and suggest that this was not his doing. Please, call it what it is. If Peyton wanted to be a Colt, he would be a Colt today, period.

I am most grateful for what he has done here and will proudly store away my $180 jersey for a later time. I hope someday he returns to Indy and takes his proper place in Colts history (or front office) but until then, I am a Colts fan and I support one team, our team, and our players.

Welcome to the forum!

Hey, new guy. Could you do us all a favor and smack us all around until we stop fighting?

[schwamm]

Wasn't it Irsay who paraded around bragging he wanted Peyton the highest paid player ever? Then when he was informed he can't do then he comes out and says, "You can't pay a guy $25 million a year." Although a week before he was spouting he intended on doing that very thing. If it wasn't for Peyton saying something they wouldn't have been able to keep the stability of Joe in the backfield. It was also Irsay who also gave Joe that huge contract. Jim is nothing more than a fan that owns a team. He hasn't made a smart business decision unless it hit him right in the face.

In your opinion. You work hard to avoid editorializing, don't you? Enjoy your Peyton worship. Idolatry isn't for me.

[Superman]

Well Irsay's getting his chance so lets see what he can do with it. Going to be interesting to say the least. Hope it works out.

That's what I'm saying. A lot of people are decidedly NOT giving him a chance, and it's (truth be told) mostly because he got rid of Peyton Manning.

[Fx Stryker]

In your opinion.

In my opinion? That is what happened!

[Susie Q]

That's what I'm saying. A lot of people are decidedly NOT giving him a chance, and it's (truth be told) mostly because he got rid of Peyton Manning.

Well I always believe in chances but that doesn't mean I like the way things were handled in the least. I was disappointed at the way Irsay handled this but that was his choice and now he has to live with it and see how it pans out.

[schwamm]

In my opinion? That is what happened!

OK, I'll bite one last time, then I'm done playing this game with you.

Wasn't it Irsay who paraded around bragging he wanted Peyton the highest paid player ever?

Yep, when Peyton was wrapping up a season where he single handedly carried a mediocre team to a 10-6 record and the playoffs, not when he'd missed an entire season and was questionable about his ability to play this year.

Then when he was informed he can't do then he comes out and says, "You can't pay a guy $25 million a year." Although a week before he was spouting he intended on doing that very thing.

I guess I'd want to see a quote because it seems quite different from my recollection of events, but that will just prompt a response, and I'm done with this tete-a-tete. So I'll just say that Mannings health changed, the teams draft status was much higher than we'd hoped, the team was much worse without Manning than is safe, and if Manning couldn't play, the cap damage would have been enormous. If Irsay hadn't seen the light, I'd have been far more upset.

If it wasn't for Peyton saying something they wouldn't have been able to keep the stability of Joe in the backfield. It was also Irsay who also gave Joe that huge contract.

Again, you want to blame Irsay for everything. He was heavily invested in Manning, and Manning wanted Addai. I agree it was a bad contract at the wrong time, but I've already said I don't agree with every decision he's made. I trust in his earnest interest in putting a winning product on the field, even where that is complying with a special player's wishes. But that also implicates Manning in pushing for Addai's new contract, just like he is implicated in promoting Caldwell to Head Coach. I doubt many are comfortable with that here.

Jim is nothing more than a fan that owns a team. He hasn't made a smart business decision unless it hit him right in the face.

This is specifically what I was referring to when I said "your opinion". I totally disagree with you. There is no point in debating it further. We are on opposite sides of this, and I can promise you you aren't likely to persuade me.

I can appreciate Manning, be a fan of the team, trust that Irsay is doing everything in his power to build a winning team, and be happy with all that. I'd rather Manning be gone one year too soon than one year too late, especially with the damage that could have done to the club.

[Wyld1]

It is also rather embarrassing the level of hate Jim Irsay is receiving by "Colt" fans.

I agree, I guess they are the same that think giving Manning a 100 Million dollar 5 year contract was a fantastic move by Elway and co?????????????? But hey, PM wasn't about the money also, right?

[Tsarquise]

Peyton wanted to be a Colt. Irsay wanted to go in a new direction. With the number one pick, Irsay saw that new direction... It's that simple.

[Jules]

I agree, I guess they are the same that think giving Manning a 100 Million dollar 5 year contract was a fantastic move by Elway and co?????????????? But hey, PM wasn't about the money also, right?

Be careful now.

We all know Peyton is never about the money. Ever. He wins games all by himself every season and cures cancer while saving puppies from burning buildings. And he does it for nothing.

[UndecidedFrog]

I agree, I guess they are the same that think giving Manning a 100 Million dollar 5 year contract was a fantastic move by Elway and co?????????????? But hey, PM wasn't about the money also, right?

As Irsay tweeted Paul Simon before, "Still a man hears what he wants to hear, And disregards the rest"

[Jules]

As Irsay tweeted Paul Simon before, "Still a man hears what he wants to hear, And disregards the rest"

You and I both knew something was up with that song quote lol. Many did not get it.

The song choice was symbolic.

[Coltsagent]

I cant believe this is even still debateable? Can someone please pull some of those Irsay quotes after we knew he had the #1 Overall and post them? We can then all mosty agree on the validity of them.

I would still rather due business with someone on a handshake. How can you say one thing publicly but professionally act another? Why were the only answers we were ever given was something in the range of "salary cap" and "circumstances"? THAT is the best you got? Then to me those are some serious question marks.

Maybe he does hold a crystal ball that many of us cant see, if he does please enlighten me why we just got rid of our best chance to win?

[DILLIGAFER]

Initial Post = Great Post.

I think jim is willing to put the entire franchise at risk of sinking cause of his man crush on andrew luck. Future.. argue what you want. the guy out right lied. so, sure go trust a guy that just put the colts in one of the worst positions I have ever seen this franchise in. dump off over 3/4 of your vets.. ya.. good move there jim.

and before all of you start harassing and calling me names, remember this.. just beacause i dont agree with you, doesnt make you anymore right.

any post that kisses jims butt is a good post to you. just as the luck lovers are all gushy over anti manning threads. psh. ridiculous.

[schwamm]

So, in one breath you ask that people respect that you have a differing opinion, then in the next you offer a "psh. rediculous" to people who don't share your views. Hello Pot...

[Coltsagent]

I feel like I am watching the movie the Hunt For Red October wherein the sub caption was so focused on one end that he shot the torpedo that sunk his own ship.

[Smonroe]

If Irsay didn't want a $90 million dollar QB, he shouldn't have signed him in the first place, surgery or not.

I've kept quiet, but I just wanted to say I agree with your original post. I felt betrayed too. Isray went into full rebuild mode, but kept saying he'd keep PM if healthy. Forget the 'healthy' part, IMO that had little to do with it. We were always going to start fresh with Luck.

I wish Irsay would have just kept quiet the whole time. I totally get the move, but I lost a little respect for one of the best owners in the game this month.

[ruksak]

I've kept quiet, but I just wanted to say I agree with your original post. I felt betrayed too. Isray went into full rebuild mode, but kept saying he'd keep PM if healthy. Forget the 'healthy' part, IMO that had little to do with it. We were always going to start fresh with Luck.

I wish Irsay would have just kept quiet the whole time. I totally get the move, but I lost a little respect for one of the best owners in the game this month.

As well, people are putting to much onus on Luck's immediate success. If this defense doesn't pan out, all for not.

The only thing that will restore his good name is winning.

[buccolts]

I think jim is willing to put the entire franchise at risk of sinking cause of his man crush on andrew luck. Future.. argue what you want. the guy out right lied. so, sure go trust a guy that just put the colts in one of the worst positions I have ever seen this franchise in. dump off over 3/4 of your vets.. ya.. good move there jim.

and before all of you start harassing and calling me names, remember this.. just beacause i dont agree with you, doesnt make you anymore right.

any post that kisses jims butt is a good post to you. just as the luck lovers are all gushy over anti manning threads. psh. ridiculous.

Was this the post that gave you the idea to start the thread 'Civility Anyone?'

[GAColt]

I don't think you can say Irsay is a liar because of his statement that if healthy Manning would be the Colts QB. He probably believed that to be the case when he said it. But from that time, which I believe was in November, to March things changed. He probably did not think the organization would go into a complete rebuild. Changing your mind and lying are two very different things.

The Tebow maniacs are all over Elway for lying that Tebow would be the starter when training camp opens. Is he a liar, or did things change, such as Peyton Manning became available?

Yes, Irsay got lucky that Peyton turned out to be the type of QB he is, but look at some of the other things he has done. Whether in the end you like Polian or not, in 1998 he was the superstar GM that was available. Irsay did whatever it took to get him to come to a small market team with a history of losing. Same thing with Dungy. He has never been afraid to spend money to improve the Colts. There isn't a single case you could point to that Irsay "cheaped" out and didn't want to spend the money to make the Colts better. All you can ask of your owner is to be committed to winning and not to be too meddlesome. He scores very high in both areas.

[DILLIGAFER]

Was this the post that gave you the idea to start the thread 'Civility Anyone?'

Yes actually. I refuse to fall into the arguing anymore.

[UndecidedFrog]

Was this the post that gave you the idea to start the thread 'Civility Anyone?'

;)