Why We Ought To Afford Jim Some Trust

[ruksak]

You should write a book about how you could win with Peyton. Automatic best seller there.

lol....

[ruksak]

And if I do, I might bump into Peyton at the hospital.......

I'll go with the NFL ironman.

[Malakai432]

Ack my internet connection is serving me with slowness!!!!!!!!!

[Malakai432]

lol....

[esmort]

The Broncos contract with PM is a pay as you go contract. If his neck/nerve/arm issue resurfaces, the team can cut him without paying him anything more than what has already been paid. I do not consider that a vote of confidence at all.

The signing of Manning is win/win for the Broncos and carries very little risk ... if Manning is healthy they get one of the greatest QBs ever, and if he doesn't return to form they can cut him without taking much of a financial hit; and either way it goes it allowed Elway a way to cut ties with Tebow (no secret that Elway was not a Tebow fan) without having to suffer the public backlash. The Colts were operating under a completely different set of circumstances.

[ruksak]

Mines better cuz real.

[braveheartcolt]

I'll go with the NFL ironman.

More like Mr Aluminium based on last season!

[likm]

Already have. Not that it's any of your business or at all pertinent to the conversation at hand. I bet you'll get over it while we struggle to win games for the next 6 years, won't ya buddy?

It is pertinent and and I bet you are not over it yet. Wonder why she divorced you?

[ruksak]

More like Mr Aluminium based on last season!

He didn't get hurt last season. He got hurt years ago, 6 to be exact. Whats that tell you?

[UndecidedFrog]

The signing of Manning is win/win for the Broncos and carries very little risk ... if Manning is healthy they get one of the greatest QBs ever, and if he doesn't return to form they can cut him without taking much of a financial hit; and either way it goes it allowed Elway a way to cut ties with Tebow (no secret that Elway was not a Tebow fan) without having to suffer the public backlash. The Colts were operating under a completely different set of circumstances.

Yes, and this is what some Colts fans don't understand.

1) Broncos/PM contract is a pay as you go contract. Little risk to the team if PM's neck/nerve/arm issue resurfaces.

2) Getting rid of Tebow in an acceptable way has a value.

3) Colts/PM contract was not a pay as you go contract, and represented great risk to the team if PM was unable to play out the contract.

[Malakai432]

Mines better cuz real.

The Simpsons aren't real????????? What!!!!

[braveheartcolt]

He didn't get hurt last season. He got hurt years ago, 6 to be exact. Whats that tell you?

That he's been lying about his condition for years??

Anyway, time to go, bed time for the Brit. Early rise tomorrow. Enjoyed the banter......have a grand evening.....

[Nadine]

The Simpsons aren't real????????? What!!!!

OBEY MY DOG!

[Nadine]

Please stop calling people liars. That's NAME calling which is a personal shot

Also please stop taking personal shots at each other

If you want to state why you don't trust Jim Irsay, fine, that's in line with the OP. But please do so respectfully

[Malakai432]

OBEY MY DOG!

SAWWWRRYYY!

[Malakai432]

OBEY MY DOG!

[Nadine]

SAWWWRRYYY!

I was just quoting zoolander, I can do that all day long!

"Even really really really good looking people can die in freak gasoline fight accidents!"

[ruksak]

That he's been lying about his condition for years??

Anyway, time to go, bed time for the Brit. Early rise tomorrow. Enjoyed the banter......have a grand evening.....

You too, sir. From now on when i read your posts aloud I will be sure to attach a British accent to them.

[Malakai432]

I was just quoting zoolander, I can do that all day long!

"Even really really really good looking people can die in freak gasoline fight accidents!"

Ohhhh! I thought you were telling me to obey because I did something bad

Will was definitely pretty goofy in that movie as usual....

[jemack]

Please stop calling people liars. That's NAME calling which is a personal shot

Also please stop taking personal shots at each other

If you want to state why you don't trust Jim Irsay, fine, that's in line with the OP. But please do so respectfully

Gee, where were you in "Here's to our new Colts"

[JoKeR]

One can have an opinion on whether Manning would/could or offered to restructure.

One can have an opinion on whether Irsay would/could or offered to restructure.

One thing is not debatable. Peyton Manning was under contract with the Indianapolis Colts. Jim Irsay and the Indianapolis Colts terminated that contract.

And Peyton said it was for the best. Even though all he wanted to do was be our QB, he said it was for the best.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

From the time Bob Irsay bought the franchise in 1972, until Jim Irsay took 100% ownership of the Colts in 1997, the Colts had two 10 win seasons (’75 and ’77), one 11 win season (’76), and only six playoff appearances in 25 years. Bob's teams' record was 151-229, or roughly 40%.

After Jim officially took over ownership, the team has had at least 10 wins and has made the playoffs in all but 4 years. The regular season record under JI has been 146-94, or roughly 61%, and that includes his first 2 years with 3 wins apiece, and last year. Even if you want to credit Polian, Dungy or Manning for the sudden success, Irsay deserves acknowledgement for assembling that group, and spending money to bring quality football to Indianapolis, where his dad had been too cheap to try.

I’m inclined to trust his vision and plan for this next chapter of Colts Football, in part because I don’t think people recognize just how challenging it was to take a perennial bottom feeder squad, and turn it into one of the classiest and best teams in the league. I get that people are afraid because so much is changing. I have no idea what I’ll get to see on the field this next season (although I like the moves I’m seeing so far), or in seasons after that. However, I am inclined to give Irsay credit because he’s handled what I believe was a much tougher challenge 15 years ago.

I hear people say free agents won’t want to come to Indy now because Irsay has allowed Grigson to clean house. I don’t agree, but if you think that to be the case now, how do imagine Irsay convinced players, coaches, staffers, and a great GM to come to this small market team with a long and awful history of losing and tight pockets back in 1997?

In my opinion, Jim Irsay wants this team to win more than any fan on this forum, and has consistently put his money to task to achieve that goal. I don't understand every decision he makes, but he doesn't owe me any explanation, either. Until the team reverts to some pre-1998 state of continual crappiness, I'm inclined to trust that Irsay is doing what he thinks is best for the success of the club, and to trust that he knows better than me (and the rest of you on this forum too).

I willing to see where it gos. Jim was our GM which you failed to mention & was not good at it, in either picking draft choices or bring in free agents. I am all for seeing what happens, do I completely trust him HUMMM? He just let one of the greatest QB's of all time leave. I have seen rebuild projects take forever, I think they are still doing that in Miami & other locations & we will see. Winning is alot harder than one might think.

[04DarkShadowGT]

I'll go with the NFL ironman.

Brett Favre? What does have to do with anything?

[ruksak]

Brett Favre? What does have to do with anything?

Tiny Picard says facepalm.

[jvan1973]

While Peyton and his Docs said he was good to play, the Colts medical team never cleared him. How is that Irsay's lie?

Um, doesnt the Colts medical staff work for Irsay? The Titans. 49er's and Broncos medical staffs cleared him.. Yet another reason not to believe IRsay

[jvan1973]

Yet he had the foresight to assemble the team, including getting Peyton behind center.

Pretty sure Polian had alot more to do with it than Irsay

[ruksak]

Pretty sure Polian had alot more to do with it than Irsay

...and you would be correct. Under Polian, Irsay signed the checks and that's about it.

[jvan1973]

Yes, and this is what some Colts fans don't understand.

1) Broncos/PM contract is a pay as you go contract. Little risk to the team if PM's neck/nerve/arm issue resurfaces.

2) Getting rid of Tebow in an acceptable way has a value.

3) Colts/PM contract was not a pay as you go contract, and represented great risk to the team if PM was unable to play out the contract.

1. 18 million this season is not little risk.

2. If Peyton isnt healthy and cant play, the Tebow fans will tear Elway a new one.

3. A new contract could have been drawn up

[Superman]

He has yet to show he can win without Peyton. Until then, I will not trust

Has he ever had a chance? He's not a good GM, at least he wasn't as a 35 year old when his dad was still the owner. But he assumed full control in 1997, and since then, has surrounded himself with football people that he's trusted to make the day-to-day decisions. His first significant decision as owner was to hire Bill Polian, and they together chose Peyton Manning. It was Irsay who chose Tony Dungy. Irsay's reputation around the league helped Indianapolis get the Super Bowl. Bob Kraft is on record as saying that he voted for Indy because of his respect for Irsay.

Now, he got rid of Polian. He then got rid of Manning, and even if you don't agree with the decision, he made it and will own it forever. And you really can't judge the wisdom of that decision until you see whether Manning can play at a high level again. And even then, that has to be weighed against how the Colts do with Luck, who we assume they'll pick. And that pick will be made with Irsay's influence as well, seeing as how it's a big picture decision.

All I'm saying is that he's only been the big man on campus for about fifteen years. And in those fifteen years, Manning was the quarterback for 13 of them. And Manning is great, and Irsay is lucky to have had him. But I don't understand the sentiment that he cannot do it without Manning. He's never had a chance. I say we give him one.

[schwamm]

I can't blame you. You were just following orders. Your leader is law. His word is law. Commands have been given, get in line and keep your lips sealed while firing indiscriminately.

Cute attempt at clever and pithy, but it falls way short. Irsay is by no means my leader or commander. At best, he owns the team about which I choose to be somewhat fanatical, or according to my wife, extremely fanatical. I'm no more "getting in line" for Irsay than you are pandering to your demi-God, Peyton.

You love to play the "he lied" card, like it is some kind of trump-all, so I took some time (while working out) to think through what that means, and if I really care. I asked myself if there was some reason why I would need to worry about any lies Irsay may have uttered. Do I need to trust him to be gentle with puppies? No. Do I need him to babysit my children? No. Do I have any direct negotiations with him, where my well being is on the line? No.

Can I think of any reason why I need to trust him? Yeah. I need to trust that he is going to do everything in his power to provide me with quality entertainment, and strive to build and/or maintain a winning program. In an ideal world, I'd also like to trust that he'll ensure that the right people are on his bus so that I can continue to be proud wearing his team's colors.

So... I'm actually somewhat in your camp, in that I probably would have made a different decision about Manning. However, I see no reason not to trust that Irsay will always make decisions that he feels will position his team to succeed in the long and (as much as possible) short term. Frankly, he'd be stupid to do anything otherwise, and his supposed lying doesn't change that trust in any way for me.

It seems to me that you want to claim "he lied" as a trust issue, when really it is about the fact that you wish he would have done something different (kept Manning), and you'd probably be upset whether there was a suggestion of a lie or not.

While I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Manning play, it is more important to me that the team continues to do everything it can to be successful tomorrow, next year, and thirty years from now (at which point, dementia or death may have claimed me), and I am prepared to accept decisions and actions that may not fit with my preferences, as long as I'm given no reason to doubt the sincere intention of keeping the train a-rollin' (or getting it back on track).

I don't like every move Irsay, Grigson and Pagano have made, but I have ZERO doubt that they are all in it to win it. THAT is what I trust.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Has he ever had a chance? He's not a good GM, at least he wasn't as a 35 year old when his dad was still the owner. But he assumed full control in 1997, and since then, has surrounded himself with football people that he's trusted to make the day-to-day decisions. His first significant decision as owner was to hire Bill Polian, and they together chose Peyton Manning. It was Irsay who chose Tony Dungy. Irsay's reputation around the league helped Indianapolis get the Super Bowl. Bob Kraft is on record as saying that he voted for Indy because of his respect for Irsay.

Now, he got rid of Polian. He then got rid of Manning, and even if you don't agree with the decision, he made it and will own it forever. And you really can't judge the wisdom of that decision until you see whether Manning can play at a high level again. And even then, that has to be weighed against how the Colts do with Luck, who we assume they'll pick. And that pick will be made with Irsay's influence as well, seeing as how it's a big picture decision.

All I'm saying is that he's only been the big man on campus for about fifteen years. And in those fifteen years, Manning was the quarterback for 13 of them. And Manning is great, and Irsay is lucky to have had him. But I don't understand the sentiment that he cannot do it without Manning. He's never had a chance. I say we give him one.

You can be worried & back someone at the same time. Its kinda of like sending your kid off to college :hmm: .

[schwamm]

Pretty sure Polian had alot more to do with it than Irsay

I'm sorry, remind me again who made the decision to hire Polian? And who was it that wrote the checks? Nothing happens on this team without Irsay's approval, even if it is sometimes based on enough trust that he pulls out the rubber stamp. You can take that to the bank. I don't have to know the man to guarantee that.

[Susie Q]

Has he ever had a chance? He's not a good GM, at least he wasn't as a 35 year old when his dad was still the owner. But he assumed full control in 1997, and since then, has surrounded himself with football people that he's trusted to make the day-to-day decisions. His first significant decision as owner was to hire Bill Polian, and they together chose Peyton Manning. It was Irsay who chose Tony Dungy. Irsay's reputation around the league helped Indianapolis get the Super Bowl. Bob Kraft is on record as saying that he voted for Indy because of his respect for Irsay.

Now, he got rid of Polian. He then got rid of Manning, and even if you don't agree with the decision, he made it and will own it forever. And you really can't judge the wisdom of that decision until you see whether Manning can play at a high level again. And even then, that has to be weighed against how the Colts do with Luck, who we assume they'll pick. And that pick will be made with Irsay's influence as well, seeing as how it's a big picture decision.

All I'm saying is that he's only been the big man on campus for about fifteen years. And in those fifteen years, Manning was the quarterback for 13 of them. And Manning is great, and Irsay is lucky to have had him. But I don't understand the sentiment that he cannot do it without Manning. He's never had a chance. I say we give him one.

Well Irsay's getting his chance so lets see what he can do with it. Going to be interesting to say the least. Hope it works out.

[jvan1973]

I'm sorry, remind me again who made the decision to hire Polian? And who was it that wrote the checks? Nothing happens on this team without Irsay's approval, even if it is sometimes based on enough trust that he pulls out the rubber stamp. You can take that to the bank. I don't have to know the man to guarantee that.

Polian was an NFL Executive of the year a few times before he ever came to Indy. That had to be the easiest descion of all time for Irsay. Lets not forgot how miserable Jim Irsay was as a GM when his dad was alive

[Fx Stryker]

I'm sorry, remind me again who made the decision to hire Polian? And who was it that wrote the checks? Nothing happens on this team without Irsay's approval, even if it is sometimes based on enough trust that he pulls out the rubber stamp. You can take that to the bank. I don't have to know the man to guarantee that.

Yea because Jim promoted Caldwell to head coach. Or was that Tony? Chris got his job from Jim too. Or did Bill promote him? Jim may have to say yes, but he would have never opposed them.

[schwamm]

Polian was an NFL Executive of the year a few times before he ever came to Indy. That had to be the easiest descion of all time for Irsay. Lets not forgot how miserable Jim Irsay was as a GM when his dad was alive

I've been miserable at things in my career and profession, and it takes humilty and brass orbs to know when to bring in someone better and smarter than you to handle those things. In fact, I'd venture that is the single greatest indicator of a great manager.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Cute attempt at clever and pithy, but it falls way short. Irsay is by no means my leader or commander. At best, he owns the team about which I choose to be somewhat fanatical, or according to my wife, extremely fanatical. I'm no more "getting in line" for Irsay than you are pandering to your demi-God, Peyton.

You love to play the "he lied" card, like it is some kind of trump-all, so I took some time (while working out) to think through what that means, and if I really care. I asked myself if there was some reason why I would need to worry about any lies Irsay may have uttered. Do I need to trust him to be gentle with puppies? No. Do I need him to babysit my children? No. Do I have any direct negotiations with him, where my well being is on the line? No.

Can I think of any reason why I need to trust him? Yeah. I need to trust that he is going to do everything in his power to provide me with quality entertainment, and strive to build and/or maintain a winning program. In an ideal world, I'd also like to trust that he'll ensure that the right people are on his bus so that I can continue to be proud wearing his team's colors.

So... I'm actually somewhat in your camp, in that I probably would have made a different decision about Manning. However, I see no reason not to trust that Irsay will always make decisions that he feels will position his team to succeed in the long and (as much as possible) short term. Frankly, he'd be stupid to do anything otherwise, and his supposed lying doesn't change that trust in any way for me.

It seems to me that you want to claim "he lied" as a trust issue, when really it is about the fact that you wish he would have done something different (kept Manning), and you'd probably be upset whether there was a suggestion of a lie or not.

While I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Manning play, it is more important to me that the team continues to do everything it can to be successful tomorrow, next year, and thirty years from now (at which point, dementia or death may have claimed me), and I am prepared to accept decisions and actions that may not fit with my preferences, as long as I'm given no reason to doubt the sincere intention of keeping the train a-rollin' (or getting it back on track).

I don't like every move Irsay, Grigson and Pagano have made, but I have ZERO doubt that they are all in it to win it. THAT is what I trust.

I agree with the last comment. They will make decisions that they hope will be right & help the team succeed, but you are also right that some may be wrong. The bad part of that is we may not know if they are right or wrong for years to come!! EVERY OWNER wants his team to be a success, there decisions shape there future. I will intently & hope for the best as to the Colts!1 :cool:

[UndecidedFrog]

1. 18 million this season is not little risk.

2. If Peyton isnt healthy and cant play, the Tebow fans will tear Elway a new one.

3. A new contract could have been drawn up

1) Compared to the $26.4 million paid by the Colts for 2011 and the option bonus of $28 million due in early March, the $18million is substantially less risky.

2) Regardless of whether PM can play to the expected PM level, the Tebowmaniacs will tear Elway a new one, as the Peyton fans are attempting to tear Irsay a new one.

3) Yes, a new contract could have been drawn up, but wasn't. What we don't know is why.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Maureen
trying to keep the peace

[schwamm]

Yea because Jim promoted Caldwell to head coach. Or was that Tony? Chris got his job from Jim too. Or did Bill promote him? Jim may have to say yes, but he would have never opposed them.

Like I said, I don't like every decision Irsay has made, but I absolutely trust that every decision he makes is based on an intention of making the team better or keeping it great, even when they turn out to be wrong.

As a business owner, I am risking being wrong with every decision I make, which amount to hundreds or thousands a day. Some carry the burden of considerable money on the line. And I make mistakes. But I can't afford not to dust myself off and work to honor the next decision with my best intentions and the latest and greatest information I can collect. Likewise, I don't have the luxury of waiting around for all possible information before I sometimes am forced to make a call, so I have to make judgement calls all the time.

Trust me, my pressures, risks and rewards are a drop in the bucket compared to Jim's.

[MEAT]

Trust has to be earned..