Doing some cap math...and likely failing.

[Rally5]

Do I understand it right the Brissett gets a 9M roster bonus?  If so, would it not be true that if he doesn't make the roster that 9M is free'd up in terms of total cap space?  Or am I wrong?  If so, I can't see JB getting 9M as a roster bonus while Kelly is 750K?  Could the resident cap expert here help me out?  Just trying to connect the dots to what's about to happen...

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, Rally5 said:

Do I understand it right the Brissett gets a 9M roster bonus?  If so, would it not be true that if he doesn't make the roster that 9M is free'd up in terms of total cap space?  Or am I wrong?  If so, I can't see JB getting 9M as a roster bonus while Kelly is 750K?  Could the resident cap expert here help me out?  Just trying to connect the dots to what's about to happen...

JB's roster bonus is guaranteed. Only way we don't pay it is if we trade him by Monday.

 

If we trade him, we have a $5.5m dead cap.

 

If we cut him we have a $14m range dead cap. Can save almost $8m though if we cut him.

 

If we keep him he cost us $21m.

[Valpo2004]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

JB's roster bonus is guaranteed. Only way we don't pay it is if we trade him by Monday.

 

If we trade him, we have a $5.5m dead cap.

 

If we cut him we have a $14m range dead cap. Can save almost $8m though if we cut him.

 

If we keep him he cost us $21m.

 

I am guessing that a trade deal for JB would look like a 5th and JB for a 7th or some camp body.

 

The other team would then pay JB's roster bonus and cut him.

[shasta519]

The way I understand it...he has a $7M roster and a per game roster bonus which totals ~$2M (x amount per game).

 

The $7M roster already gtd in September...so it's owed either way. It pays on 3/22.

 

So the dead cap hit is...the remaining signing bonus $5.5M + $7M roster bonus...or $12.5M.

 

However...the Colts can trade that $7M roster bonus (and obviously the per game bonuses)...if they find a taker. IF they do...JB's dead cap hit is only the $5.5M remaining signing bonus 

 

 

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I am guessing that a trade deal for JB would look like a 5th and JB for a 7th or some camp body.

 

The other team would then pay JB's roster bonus and cut him.

Idk?

 

I think there is a a few options where we might not have to attach a pick.

 

NE - Could definitely see them wanting Brissett back.

 

CHI - Brissett played for Chuck right? Possible connection amd they've been trying to get a guy.

 

SD - might be interested in JB to mentor rookie, If they dont go after Cam.

[shasta519]

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I am guessing that a trade deal for JB would look like a 5th and JB for a 7th or some camp body.

 

The other team would then pay JB's roster bonus and cut him.

I don't think the other team would cut him...but I do think a trade might look something like that to keep them to take the roster bonus. Ballard definitely might have to get creative.

[Valpo2004]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

Idk?

 

I think there is a a few options where we might not have to attach a pick.

 

NE - Could definitely see them wanting Brissett back.

 

CHI - Brissett played for Chuck right? Possible connection amd they've been trying to get a guy.

 

SD - might be interested in JB to mentor rookie, If they dont go after Cam.

 

No one is going to want him on his current contract.

[w87r]

Maybe not? Never know though. Wish they wouldnt of guaranteed that roster bonus. Wasnt necessary I don't think. Was already giving him more money

 

If we had to attach a 5th with him and get back a 7th The cap relief would be worth it.

[Valpo2004]

BTW by my figuring after the Castonzo contract, Buckner, and Rivers that brings us down to about 20 mil in cap space.

 

JB being cut will open up 8.8 mil.  Hoyer could free up 3 mil.  We probably need about 10 mil for rookies and in season moves.

[w87r]

5 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

No one is going to want him on his current contract.

Tbh though, it's not that bad if they plan on starting him this year 

 

We are responsible for $5.5m regardless, so JB would only cost the other team around $16m.

 

[shasta519]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

Maybe not? Never know though. Wish they wouldnt of guaranteed that roster bonus. Wasnt necessary I don't think. Was already giving him more money

 

If we had to attach a 5th with him and get back a 7th The cap relief would be worth it.

 

Definitely. I would gladly toss in one of the 6th round picks (#194 or #198)...IF another team took that bonus. 

[Valpo2004]

8 minutes ago, w87r said:

Tbh though, it's not that bad if they plan on starting him this year 

 

We are responsible for $5.5m regardless, so JB would only cost the other team around $16m.

 

 

I think JB has likely played himself out of a starting job.

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Valpo2004 said:

BTW by my figuring after the Castonzo contract, Buckner, and Rivers that brings us down to about 20 mil in cap space.

 

JB being cut will open up 8.8 mil.  Hoyer could free up 3 mil.  We probably need about 10 mil for rookies and in season moves.

Think you're a little shy without looking at it.

 

We came in with what $86m

Cut Hunt +4m

 

$90m

-$17m - Castonzo

-$19m - Buckner(think this year is lower than next 4)?

-$25m - Rivers

 

$61m

 

$29m left, with as you said $8-$12m in cap savings from 2 QB's

 

Gets us to $40m +/- range

 

With no 1st round pick, our picks really shouldn't be much.

 

Still setting nicely.

 

Say we could spend another $20m if we need to.

 

S. Eric Berry - 1yr $5m

RB. Melvin Gordon 2yr $10m

WR. Nelson Agholor - 1yr $4m

CB. Mackensie Alexander 2yr $7m

 

$17m in cap total, leaving around $20m left.

 

Then draft the rest

 

[Valpo2004]

10 minutes ago, w87r said:

Think you're a little shy without looking at it.

 

We came in with what $86m

Cut Hunt +4m

 

$90m

-$17m - Castonzo

-$19m - Buckner(think this year is lower than next 4)?

-$25m - Rivers

 

$61m

 

$29m left, with as you said $8-$12m in cap savings from 2 QB's

 

Gets us to $40m +/- range

 

With no 1st round pick, our picks really shouldn't be much.

 

Still setting nicely.

 

Say we could spend another $20m if we need to.

 

S. Eric Berry - 1yr $5m

RB. Melvin Gordon 2yr $10m

WR. Nelson Agholor - 1yr $4m

CB. Mackensie Alexander 2yr $7m

 

$17m in cap total, leaving around $20m left.

 

Then draft the rest

 

 

Overthecap is showing Buckner's cap hit in his first year to be his highest.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/deforest-buckner/4720

 

They show 45 mil in space before Rivers.

 

Sporttrac says 23 mil after Rivers.

 

Either way we can do maybe one more big signing or 2 mid range signings.  

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Overthecap is showing Buckner's cap hit in his first year to be his highest.

 

https://overthecap.com/player/deforest-buckner/4720

Nice, rather it be that way.

 

So that shows $23m cap remaining

 

Add in $11.8m(brissett hoyer cut)

 

Or are $19m range if we can trade brissett.

 

$35m-$42m depending on scenario.

 

Ready to see who the next domino is.

 

 

[MPStack]

Bottom line, it was a bad extension. 

[csmopar]

35 minutes ago, Superfly said:

Bottom line, it was a bad extension. 

Yeah maybe on the surface. But it was still a hedge your bet type move. We had and have the cap space to eat it if we need too. And if he’d played lights out, you get a guy that’s your next franchise QB on the cheap.

 

plus one thing you’re not considering is with Luck coming off the books, that 89-90 percent rule was gonna be harder to achieve. In this case, it was a worth the gambit

[Rally5]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

BTW by my figuring after the Castonzo contract, Buckner, and Rivers that brings us down to about 20 mil in cap space.

 

JB being cut will open up 8.8 mil.  Hoyer could free up 3 mil.  We probably need about 10 mil for rookies and in season moves.

That's what I was trying to process as well...

[Dogg63]

8 hours ago, w87r said:

$35m-$42m depending on scenario.

 

Don't those numbers go up $10 million as a result of the new CBA?

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Rally5 said:

Do I understand it right the Brissett gets a 9M roster bonus?  If so, would it not be true that if he doesn't make the roster that 9M is free'd up in terms of total cap space?  Or am I wrong?  If so, I can't see JB getting 9M as a roster bonus while Kelly is 750K?  Could the resident cap expert here help me out?  Just trying to connect the dots to what's about to happen...

Hey guys, if you haven't ever checked out 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/cap/

give it a look. The summary of the current salary cap is in the top right hand corner.

 

You can play around with it by clicking the blue "manage roster" button.

 

If you scroll all the way down, you'll see the dead cap hits for those no longer on our roster... Looks like Luck is costing us 6+M this year lol... 

 

Anyway, you can cut, trade, or even do restructures, and you'll see the figures update. So if you're curious about JBs impact, go into the simulator, click the X/Cut icon, and you'll see the impact to the right. (it's 8.875M)

 

Keep in mind you'll see more than 53. Pretty sure the list includes both PS and IR players.

[w87r]

4 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

Don't those numbers go up $10 million as a result of the new CBA?

Already was projected and calculated in.

 

So, to answer your question, no.

[Hoose]

12 hours ago, Superfly said:

Bottom line, it was a bad extension. 

Forced on the Colts by Luck quitting just 2 weeks from the start of the season. They were in a tough spot and did what they had to do. 

[ColtJax]

There's too many decent QB's on the market for anyone to give up anything for JB. Foles was going to cost the Jags to get rid of him, he now has teams wanting to give up picks for him. Dalton is still out there as is Winston. Whoever takes Winston will most likely cut their QB, unless it's the QB less Chargers..

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, Hoose said:

Forced on the Colts by Luck quitting just 2 weeks from the start of the season. They were in a tough spot and did what they had to do. 

Not really, as JB had no leverage. You think, all of a sudden, he was going to immediately hold out. 

I get it, that if, JB had balled out in 2019, they wanted him under contract going into 2020. 
 

But he didn’t, and the contract looks bad IMO. At least it was really just a one year extension.  

 

[Hoose]

I can’t disagree that 7 months later, the Colts have some buyers remorse. But they were put in the worst possible position by Luck. I’ll give them a pass and hope they move forward and find their future QB in the draft. That’s no easy task but I suspect Ballard has a specific player targeted. 

[jvan1973]

Trade JB to the Patriots for Dorsett

 

[Rally5]

13 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Hey guys, if you haven't ever checked out 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/cap/

give it a look. The summary of the current salary cap is in the top right hand corner.

 

You can play around with it by clicking the blue "manage roster" button.

 

If you scroll all the way down, you'll see the dead cap hits for those no longer on our roster... Looks like Luck is costing us 6+M this year lol... 

 

Anyway, you can cut, trade, or even do restructures, and you'll see the figures update. So if you're curious about JBs impact, go into the simulator, click the X/Cut icon, and you'll see the impact to the right. (it's 8.875M)

 

Keep in mind you'll see more than 53. Pretty sure the list includes both PS and IR players.

Right on, thanks!!!

 

[EastStreet]

5 hours ago, Rally5 said:

Right on, thanks!!!

 

It's pretty fun. Whenever I go play, I end up spending an hour before I know it making trades, signing existing and new FAs lol... Surprised more folks haven't talked about it on the board. It's very detailed and option rich for a fan friendly site. 

[jameszeigler834]

On 3/17/2020 at 7:19 PM, w87r said:

JB's roster bonus is guaranteed. Only way we don't pay it is if we trade him by Monday.

 

If we trade him, we have a $5.5m dead cap.

 

If we cut him we have a $14m range dead cap. Can save almost $8m though if we cut him.

 

If we keep him he cost us $21m.

That's why that contract now is terrible.

[Four2itus]

10 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That's why that contract now is terrible.

Curious...what about this team makes you happy?

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That's why that contract now is terrible.

I would have preferred it to be more front loaded. 

 

Likely doesn't matter though. Even with signing two big contracts this week, we're still more than likely more than fine in terms of cap space. I did a few models (sportrac) and we still have a lot of options even if we wanted to keep JB as backup. Until we get tight on the cap, I really don't care. But and 8.7M savings would be enough to cover another nice FA piece. 

[TrueBlue12]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I would have preferred it to be more front loaded. 

 

Likely doesn't matter though. Even with signing two big contracts this week, we're still more than likely more than fine in terms of cap space. I did a few models (sportrac) and we still have a lot of options even if we wanted to keep JB as backup. Until we get tight on the cap, I really don't care. But and 8.7M savings would be enough to cover another nice FA piece. 

With Haeg, Clark and Andrews all unsigned as OL backups, I expect we'll use some cap space on OL FAs.

[EastStreet]

29 minutes ago, TrueBlue12 said:

With Haeg, Clark and Andrews all unsigned as OL backups, I expect we'll use some cap space on OL FAs.

I'm guessing they'll resign Haeg, cut Clark, and not sure about Andrews. I prefer a C/G combo as depth just in case. the new rules allowing more OLs I'm guessing will impact us a bit.

[Rally5]

On 3/18/2020 at 5:07 AM, EastStreet said:

Hey guys, if you haven't ever checked out 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/cap/

give it a look. The summary of the current salary cap is in the top right hand corner.

 

You can play around with it by clicking the blue "manage roster" button.

 

If you scroll all the way down, you'll see the dead cap hits for those no longer on our roster... Looks like Luck is costing us 6+M this year lol... 

 

Anyway, you can cut, trade, or even do restructures, and you'll see the figures update. So if you're curious about JBs impact, go into the simulator, click the X/Cut icon, and you'll see the impact to the right. (it's 8.875M)

 

Keep in mind you'll see more than 53. Pretty sure the list includes both PS and IR players.

This is awesome, thanks!  

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Rally5 said:

This is awesome, thanks!  

welcome! 

I think I'll post a thread about it so folks will know. folks need some good healthy distraction these days!

[TrueBlue12]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'm guessing they'll resign Haeg, cut Clark, and not sure about Andrews. I prefer a C/G combo as depth just in case. the new rules allowing more OLs I'm guessing will impact us a bit.

The new rules allowing more OLs? Is that the slightly larger general roster size or something else? Please educate me.

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, TrueBlue12 said:

The new rules allowing more OLs?

Is that the slightly larger general roster size or something else? Please educate me.

Quote

here's the blurb from ESPN

 

Quote

How about expanded rosters?

 

Yes. More jobs. That's another way the players benefit. The game-day active roster will increase from 46 to 48 players (although one of the extra players must be an offensive lineman, which will give teams more flexibility to have three extra linemen). Practice squads will expand from 10 players to 12 in 2020 and 2021 and to 14 starting in 2022.

 

Practice-squad salaries also are going up -- the minimum salary is $8,000 per week in the current CBA, and it will rise to $11,500 by 2022 -- and those players will be eligible for 401(k) and tuition assistance benefits.

 

Two practice-squad players per week may be elevated to the team's roster, meaning game-week roster sizes could effectively increase from 53 to 55. And a player elevated from the practice squad to the 55-man roster could be sent back to the practice squad two times without having to clear waivers.

 

The changes will give teams more flexibility in managing their rosters and, if utilized fully, will offer more opportunity for practice-squad players to earn active-roster salaries.

 

 

 

[TrueBlue12]

Very good info. Thanks. 

 

Although how in the heck will the NFL know if one of the two extra game day slots you used was an OL? What do they use as the base number to enforce the rule? Last year your team averaged 8 OL on your active roster. This year we better see 9 or else? That puzzles me.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, TrueBlue12 said:

Very good info. Thanks. 

 

Although how in the heck will the NFL know if one of the two extra game day slots you used was an OL? What do they use as the base number to enforce the rule? Last year your team averaged 8 OL on your active roster. This year we better see 9 or else? That puzzles me.

Not sure, but I was assuming one of the requirements is that a team has to have XX number (minimum) of OL on the roster to go to 48. Most teams I think carry 7 OL+LS into game day, so guessing now that the rules/requirements will say something like "you can carry 48 on your game day roster, but 8 of the 48 must be OL". Otherwise, you can only carry 47... or something similar.