Senior Bowl

[Moosejawcolt]

23 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'm not a technical analyst for sure, but there has to be a reason why Fromm started for two (or three?) years at a program like GA and Love started for Utah State.  Not that I'm a Fromm fan or that it is necessarily telling, but its a discrepancy that needs to be accounted for other than just a recruiting difference.  People rave like Love is a top ten pick and that Fromm barely belongs in the NFL, but the pedigree tends to point otherwise.

 

All of the college teams that competed for the national championships have NFL talked about QBs.  AL TUA, Clemson Lawrence, OSu Fields, LSU Burrow, OK Hurts....even Auburn has Bo Nix.  Yet Fromm gets passed over almost out of hand because I guess of pure physicality.

I said it awhile back and of course I could b wrong.  The one qb that seems to fit what Reich wants is Fromm. We shall see.  Draft Kinlaw and move up into the 1st and get Fromm.  I really don't understand the love with all the qbs this year.  I think they all have major flaws with the exception of Fromm.  Even Burrows is a one year wonder.  I like consistency over the span of a college career. I think that leads to long term success.

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

 

[boo2202]

Think panthers bypass QB this year as they’ll probably be in the running for Trevor next year.

[lennymoore24]

12 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I said it awhile back and of course I could b wrong.  The one qb that seems to fit what Reich wants is Fromm. We shall see.  Draft Kinlaw and move up into the 1st and get Fromm.  I really don't understand the love with all the qbs this year.  I think they all have major flaws with the exception of Fromm.  Even Burrows is a one year wonder.  I like consistency over the span of a college career. I think that leads to long term success.

 

I agree with you.  I think Fromm fits the offense the best.  I like Fromm and Gordon.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If I was the bengals and sold on Herbert or Love this would be a enticing offer.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

Think panthers bypass QB this year as they’ll probably be in the running for Trevor next year.

I think they will take a year to evaluate what they have. Rhule already said he was going to start on defense and that he likes Grier. I am sure they don’t want to give up on Newton until they see if he is healthy. They probably wouldn’t get much for Newton anyway with his injuries last year and no way to know how it will effect him.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

 

I agree with you.  I think Fromm fits the offense the best.  I like Fromm and Gordon.

Fromm has to prove in workouts that he isn’t inaccurate down field.  From what we seen he doesn’t take many chances. Maybe it’s the system maybe not. I don’t want another game manager.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Don’t know where this came from and I don’t have anything to confirm it but Dodd’s was apparently following Love around all day.

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Don’t know where this came from and I don’t have anything to confirm it but Dodd’s was apparently following Love around all day.

Is this based on the pictures of him watching him. I could see it. Reich watched him but wanted to see other players. So Dodd stayed to get a good look. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Is this based on the pictures of him watching him. I could see it. Reich watched him but wanted to see other players. So Dodd stayed to get a good look. 

Not sure if it came from that picture. Seems the person saw him following him from station to station.

 

Someone posted some day three notes reddit. Note they talk about him going through his reads. Patricia had high praise for him.

 

 

[hoosierhawk]

9 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't think you would call his upbringing a great success. 

 

But I think there is this notion that someone who loses a father at age 14 is a good thing for development, when every professional book on the subject says that a strong fatherly presence is a great influence.  Who knows what any individual situation created, but there seems to be this twist of history that now says that having a adverse background is better than having a supportive background.  I don't think that's rooted in reality, but there are plenty of examples of exceptions with which to justify that thinking I suppose.

That is a sick comment. Nowhere have I seen anyone say that losing a father at 14 is a good thing for his development. Where did you come up with this ridiculous notion. Sick!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Radio interview with Love. I really like how he takes full responsibility for his 2019 season. 

 

https://youtu.be/lz977dCiXWc

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

That is a sick comment. Nowhere have I seen anyone say that losing a father at 14 is a good thing for his development. Where did you come up with this ridiculous notion. Sick!

Relax. That's one sentence, one component of a broader thought. 

 

Its a piece of the puzzle that will focus on adversity.

 

In a few months, it will be synonymous with the words "mental toughness".  Trust me.  The narrative is being written already.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I said it awhile back and of course I could b wrong.  The one qb that seems to fit what Reich wants is Fromm. We shall see.  Draft Kinlaw and move up into the 1st and get Fromm.  I really don't understand the love with all the qbs this year.  I think they all have major flaws with the exception of Fromm.  Even Burrows is a one year wonder.  I like consistency over the span of a college career. I think that leads to long term success.

Fromm is probably the the best fit based upon what we know at this time, especially with an oline that can give a pocket passer plenty of time to extend the play by staying in the pocket until the last split second, if you can, which how its normally done.  Burrow did the Mahomes thing this year with 2 1st round talented WRs and that took him from a mid round talent to the first pick. 

 

Fromm may not have the arm strength or the height to be a top 5 passer.  That may not matter.  He may be a great game manager for 57 minutes of football, but also great at getting the team into scoring position with 40 seconds and 2 timeouts on each end of the half. 

 

The flaws that the other QBs are displaying are fairly scary.  If the major problem with Fromm is that he misses 25% of his 25+ yard attempts resulting in incompletions and not interceptions, that's not a big deal, IMO.  

 

More info is still needed on him and Eason tho.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Do you want a guy that is a game manager or a play maker. I want the play maker. I don’t want a guy that can only win if everything goes right.

 

Eason is a guy that could rise with the combine and workouts.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[DougDew]

17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Do you want a guy that is a game manager or a play maker. I want the play maker. I don’t want a guy that can only win if everything goes right.

 

Eason is a guy that could rise with the combine and workouts.

I think most want a QB who doesn't have to carry the team just to be competitive. 

 

Reich had both the scrambler, Wentz, and the statue, Foles, and won with both.  Don't get fooled into adopting the scrambling trendiness as being something essential.

 

Its merely about how long a QB holds the ball to allow something to develop.  Some leave the pocket. Others stay there until the last second.  Running to one side of the field normally cuts your vision of the field in half, limiting the options.  We have the pocket to give any QB time to stand there and extend the play.  Most teams don't.

 

I'm intrigued by Eason.  I like his height.  Its tough to substitute that.  Obviously Herbert too.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think most want a QB who doesn't have to carry the team just to be competitive. 

 

Reich had both the scrambler, Wentz, and the statue, Foles, and won with both.  Don't get fooled into adopting the scrambling trendiness as being something essential.

 

Its merely about how long a QB holds the ball to allow something to develop.  Some leave the pocket. Others stay there until the last second.  Running to one side of the field normally cuts your vision of the field in half, limiting the options.  We have the pocket to give any QB time to stand there and extend the play.  Most teams don't.

 

I'm intrigued by Eason.  I like his height.  Its tough to substitute that.  Obviously Herbert too.

The scrambling ability is not why I don’t want Fromm. I want a guy that can put a team on his shoulders when things aren’t going right.  A game manager is not going to give us a team that can compete with Mahomes the next decade. The ability to make plays unscripted though is something that is important in the NFL today with players getting faster. Having a QB that can go off script when a play breaks down is huge.

[Zoltan]

3 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I said it awhile back and of course I could b wrong.  The one qb that seems to fit what Reich wants is Fromm. We shall see.  Draft Kinlaw and move up into the 1st and get Fromm.  I really don't understand the love with all the qbs this year.  I think they all have major flaws with the exception of Fromm.  Even Burrows is a one year wonder.  I like consistency over the span of a college career. I think that leads to long term success.

 

I believe Reich has shown that he adjusts his offense to his QBs style, Therefore it's most important to get the best QB we can draft, instead of getting the best fit for a certain system

 

To me Fromm is like Gordon who has a lot to prove (if not more because he had a way more talented team). I keep hearing how smart he is but, Fitzpatrick is one of the smartest QBs to play the game and I wouldn't want him on our team, If we drafted him though I wouldn't trade back into the 1st for him because that would mean at least 3-4 QBs were taken and we could get him with one of our second rnd picks.

 

 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The scrambling ability is not why I don’t want Fromm. I want a guy that can put a team on his shoulders when things aren’t going right.  A game manager is not going to give us a team that can compete with Mahomes the next decade. The ability to make plays unscripted though is something that is important in the NFL today with players getting faster. Having a QB that can go off script when a play breaks down is huge.

Not sure what you have seen during college or post college to determine that one Qb is a game manager and another other is not.  The physicality prism?  

 

All the Qb can do is to see where to throw the ball, then throw it there accurately. The WRs have to go unscripted too, and find an open spot, or a spot that he can be lead to.   

 

After 5 seconds from the snap of the ball, whether the Qb makes that decision and throws the ball from the pocket or by running to the right hash mark doesn't matter, other than being on the right hash mark provides half as many opportunities to see where to throw the ball and throw it there accurately.

 

If unscripted means that my $125 mil Qb is carrying the team by making 25 yard scrambles for TDs, and is treated as a runner, I don't want that.  Its pretty to watch and nice to have, but its not really what the Qb position is about, IMO.

[MikeCurtis]

Fromm seems like a career backup

 

I think Eason is a better candidate for the tier 2 QBs 

[stitches]

7 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

So... do you like PFF now?  

[lennymoore24]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Not sure what you have seen during college or post college to determine that one Qb is a game manager and another other is not.  The physicality prism?  

 

All the Qb can do is to see where to throw the ball, then throw it there accurately. The WRs have to go unscripted too, and find an open spot, or a spot that he can be lead to.   

 

After 5 seconds from the snap of the ball, whether the Qb makes that decision and throws the ball from the pocket or by running to the right hash mark doesn't matter, other than being on the right hash mark provides half as many opportunities to see where to throw the ball and throw it there accurately.

 

If unscripted means that my $125 mil Qb is carrying the team by making 25 yard scrambles for TDs, and is treated as a runner, I don't want that.  Its pretty to watch and nice to have, but its not really what the Qb position is about, IMO.

 

It is funny how this "game manager" tag gets stuck on Fromm.  Last year Fromm threw 30 TDs, Love had 32.  Yet, Love is the playmaker and Fromm a game manager.  So this year Love throws 20 TDs and it is blamed on the changes in coaching and players around him.  Fromm through less TDs this year because they had a run orientated team.  But Fromm is a game manager.  Or he has great talent around him.  Couldn't that argument be made for Burrow?  I like your points here.  I like Fromm because he is decisive and accurate and go throw progressions well.  As much as people like to say the NFL is changing you need QBs to make plays out of the pocket, if you look at the final 4 QBs, Mahomes in the only one I would say would do that.  The players who succeed are ultimately the ones who make plays from the pocket.  It always has been that way and always will be that way.  Because it ultimately is about timing.  Guys like Watson make a few nice plays a game but are inconsistent.  I would rather have someone who is efficient and consistenly makes the right throws.

[stitches]

32 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

 

It is funny how this "game manager" tag gets stuck on Fromm.  Last year Fromm threw 30 TDs, Love had 32.  Yet, Love is the playmaker and Fromm a game manager.  So this year Love throws 20 TDs and it is blamed on the changes in coaching and players around him.  Fromm through less TDs this year because they had a run orientated team.  But Fromm is a game manager.  Or he has great talent around him.  Couldn't that argument be made for Burrow?  I like your points here.  I like Fromm because he is decisive and accurate and go throw progressions well.  As much as people like to say the NFL is changing you need QBs to make plays out of the pocket, if you look at the final 4 QBs, Mahomes in the only one I would say would do that.  The players who succeed are ultimately the ones who make plays from the pocket.  It always has been that way and always will be that way.  Because it ultimately is about timing.  Guys like Watson make a few nice plays a game but are inconsistent.  I would rather have someone who is efficient and consistenly makes the right throws.

 

It's almost as if playstyle and traits actually matter. It's almost as if surrounding talent matters, right? Shocking indeed. 

[stitches]

 

Here's more info on those Zebra Technology(Next Gen) measurements:

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2020/01/how-justin-herbert-compared-to-other-qbs-in-first-senior-bowl-practice.html

 

Quote

 

How Justin Herbert compared to other QBs in first Senior Bowl practice

Updated Jan 22, 10:54 AM; Posted Jan 22, 10:38 AM

 

MOBILE, Ala. — Justin Herbert threw the second-fastest and the second-highest rotation rate among the six quarterbacks at the Senior Bowl.

Herbert’s impressive first day of practice featured 91 throws, most by any of the six signal callers, whose passing performances were evaluated by Zebra Technologies, the company behind the NFL’s Next Gen Stats.

The former Oregon quarterback had a maximum initial throwing speed of 65.8 miles per hour, second only to Oklahoma’s Jalen Hurts (66.1 mph), and a maximum initial rotation of 740 rpm and average initial rotation of 518 rpm, behind only Utah State’s Jordan Love (747 and 546, respectively), according to Zebra Technologies. The higher the rate of rotation, the tighter a ball spirals and is delivered accurately, especially in adverse weather conditions.

 

Herbert’s maximum rotation rate is higher than any of the quarterbacks to take part in the last two Senior Bowls, which included Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Drew Lock, Daniel Jones and Gardner Minshew II.

With such a high volume of throws, Herbert had a high volume of short routes, which kept his average throwing distance to 16.3 yards and his maximum of 50.8 yards was fourth. His throws averaged 10.4 feet at their peak and had the lowest maximum peak (36 feet), which indicates Herbert was throwing lower line drives, slants and shorter routes.

 

As a result of those shorter throws, Herbert was the only quarterback to have the majority of their passes under 45 mph. He had 17 throws under 35 mph, 36 from 35-45 mph, 25 from 45-55 mph and 13 over 55 mph.

 

 

 

 

 

[stitches]

 

 

 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

Sorry for not posting more of Gordon. It it has proven harder to find. 

Another view of first TD

He is also reported to ha e gotten better as the week has gone along. 

 

[DougDew]

7 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Fromm seems like a career backup

 

I think Eason is a better candidate for the tier 2 QBs 

I know that's what people say.  And I'm not on any Fromm train.  I'm just wondering why people say that.  

 

Why is Love in the First tier and Eason in the second?  So far, neither Fromm nor Eason have had a friendly environment with which to showcase themselves.

 

We haven't even had a bowl game, a combine, pro day, etc.  Its too early to make any determinations one way or the other, IMO. 

 

The only thing I know is that we have a pocket to protect a pocket passer, and 6'6" is better than anything shorter, and that field vision and accuracy are the two most important skills for a QB.  Maybe we will have conclusions about those two things after this bowl game.

 

The fact is, if JB was able to do only two things that he didn't do last season, consistently see open receivers and get them the ball in the right spot, we would be talking all day about DTs, WRs, TEs, and OTs, and not even seriously looking at QBs.

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Here's more info on those Zebra Technology(Next Gen) measurements:

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2020/01/how-justin-herbert-compared-to-other-qbs-in-first-senior-bowl-practice.html

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like Love would be the best fit to go to Arians in TB, what we're used to seeing when we had a different HC, but Herbert to Reich?

[DougDew]

29 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Sorry for not posting more of Gordon. It it has proven harder to find. 

Another view of first TD

He is also reported to ha e gotten better as the week has gone along. 

 

I'm sure all of the players are nervous.  This is just the practice for a bowl game, which are just two components of pre draft analysis.  Some will thrive in this environment more than others too.

[MikeCurtis]

6 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

 

It is funny how this "game manager" tag gets stuck on Fromm.  Last year Fromm threw 30 TDs, Love had 32.  Yet, Love is the playmaker and Fromm a game manager.  So this year Love throws 20 TDs and it is blamed on the changes in coaching and players around him.  Fromm through less TDs this year because they had a run orientated team.  But Fromm is a game manager.  Or he has great talent around him.  Couldn't that argument be made for Burrow?  I like your points here.  I like Fromm because he is decisive and accurate and go throw progressions well.  As much as people like to say the NFL is changing you need QBs to make plays out of the pocket, if you look at the final 4 QBs, Mahomes in the only one I would say would do that.  The players who succeed are ultimately the ones who make plays from the pocket.  It always has been that way and always will be that way.  Because it ultimately is about timing.  Guys like Watson make a few nice plays a game but are inconsistent.  I would rather have someone who is efficient and consistenly makes the right throws.

Hate to disagree Fromm actually threw 24 TDS   Love did less

 

Watch them play a bit more. Love has better traits 

 

 

who will be better than in the Pros?

 

Who knows?
 

It a crap shoot

[CoachLite]

34 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Sorry for not posting more of Gordon. It it has proven harder to find. 

Another view of first TD

He is also reported to ha e gotten better as the week has gone along. 

 

I've noticed how quick Gordon's reads are, and how quickly he gets the ball out. He can be a little quirky in his motion, tho'.

[MikeCurtis]

29 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I know that's what people say.  And I'm not on any Fromm train.  I'm just wondering why people say that.  

 

There are some decent YouTube videos from draft pundits on both players

 

Worth a watch

[Colt Overseas]

I think this is quite interesting from Matt Miller.

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

Does anyone still think Love will still be on the board at 13?

If we want Herbert, Tua, Or Love.......

 

We are going to have to give up some picks

 

Washington, Detroit, and NY will be fielding MANY calls to trade

 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

10 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

I've noticed how quick Gordon's reads are, and how quickly he gets the ball out. He can be a little quirky in his motion, tho'.

Here is the perfect example of the quirky style. 

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Colt Overseas said:

I think this is quite interesting from Matt Miller.

 

 

Andrew Thomas, the big OT from UGA, in late round 1 is intriguing.  Most have him going higher than that.  Maybe the NFL sees him as being more of a run blocker than a pass blocker.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Does anyone still think Love will still be on the board at 13?

If we want Herbert, Tua, Or Love.......

 

We are going to have to give up some picks

 

Washington, Detroit, and NY will be fielding MANY calls to trade

 

I said before there will be 5 QBs taken before pick 13. 

 

QBs go high, and positional players go lower, so if a team is occupying a slot another team needs, they will step out (for compensation)

 

But this is only Senior Bowl practice.  They all look good, and you've got amateur GMs on twitter touting their favorites.....or just do what many do and support all of these kids in their quest for being an NFL player.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Here is the perfect example of the quirky style. 

Rivers survived all these years with his side arm delivery for the most part, I’m not too concerned. 
 

Unfamiliar guys, less familiar systems, testing in those environments is what the Senior Bowl is about. So, you want to see them get better and better as the Senior Bowl game approaches. Gordon seems to be doing that.

 

The guy I really want at WR is Gamdy-Golden, he adjusts to all QBs pretty well, IMO.