Willis starting over Gaethers?

[richard pallo]

It looks like it has finally happened.  Willis starting over Gaethers.  Total snap counts something like 60 for Willis and 9 for Gaethers.  I'm surprised it took this long.  To me he makes our defense much stronger.

[coltfaninnewyork]

Kid was all over the place yesterday ,no question he's a football player .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Geathers only played 4 snaps.

[lollygagger8]

As it should be 

[John Hammonds]

Clayton Geathers > LaRon Landry

Khari Willis > Clayton Geathers

 

Was bound to happen sooner or later.

[CanuckColtsFan]

Im happy to see he's found his place so quickly.  

[dw49]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Geathers only played 4 snaps.

 

Never , IMO , came close to the level he was before the injuries. He's a liability in coverage and really regressed in run support.

[coltsfan_canada]

Willis is better than Geathers. Rookie has been balling. Another gem by Ballard. 

[EastStreet]

Geathers hasn't had a full week of practice all year IIRC. Not sure he's fully healthy. Not saying Willis isn't better than Geathers, but the snap counts have fluctuated for both. Willis's SCs stronger many times because of S injuries, and situationally. Until the official depth chart changes, I think we'll see Geathers play in the future.

[will426]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Geathers hasn't had a full week of practice all year IIRC. Not sure he's fully healthy. Not saying Willis isn't better than Geathers, but the snap counts have fluctuated for both. Willis's SCs stronger many times because of S injuries, and situationally. Until the official depth chart changes, I think we'll see Geathers play in the future.

willis is just a more disruptive player out there compared to geathers i can’t say it’s the injuries he was outplayed by Farley as well in my opinion 

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, will426 said:

willis is just a more disruptive player out there compared to geathers i can’t say it’s the injuries he was outplayed by Farley as well in my opinion 

I think he's (Willis) more disruptive vs the run, but he's not great in coverage and really not a single-high capable guy. He's got a really good nose for the ball though. Geathers is rangier but inconsistent... I'd probably play him more than Willis vs pass heavy teams though. Both are different body types, and different types of players. Neither are really 3 down Ss IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Have you guys noticed hooker playing up in the box more. He keeps improving his game.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Geathers hasn't had a full week of practice all year IIRC. Not sure he's fully healthy. Not saying Willis isn't better than Geathers, but the snap counts have fluctuated for both. Willis's SCs stronger many times because of S injuries, and situationally. Until the official depth chart changes, I think we'll see Geathers play in the future.

Reich gives him rest days to keep him healthy. He has only had the concussion. No other injuries.

[EastStreet]

22 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Reich gives him rest days to keep him healthy. He has only had the concussion. No other injuries.

rest days every week for a 27 year old is a bit concerning, no?

[ProblChld32]

29 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I think he's (Willis) more disruptive vs the run, but he's not great in coverage and really not a single-high capable guy. He's got a really good nose for the ball though. Geathers is rangier but inconsistent... I'd probably play him more than Willis vs pass heavy teams though. Both are different body types, and different types of players. Neither are really 3 down Ss IMO.

I’m gonna have to disagree, Willis is far better in coverage than Geathers is and faster so he closes quicker. I’d definitely put Willis in a single high look over Geathers. Geathers has always been a liability in coverage. He’s simply a box safety.

[Smoke317]

I thought Willis has been playing/starting over Geathers???  I wouldn't be shocked if Willis has played the most snaps on our defense.  And he's missed a game...

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

I’m gonna have to disagree, Willis is far better in coverage than Geathers is and faster so he closes quicker. I’d definitely put Willis in a single high look over Geathers. Geathers has always been a liability in coverage. He’s simply a box safety.

I don't see Willis as having great speed. I actually see him as more of a box safety to be honest. Not that I think Geathers is a great S at all, but I see Willis as pretty limited too.

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I thought Willis has been playing/starting over Geathers???  I wouldn't be shocked if Willis has played the most snaps on our defense.  And he's missed a game...

Rock has played the most snaps through 8 games (445 total 67 avg) vs Willis (327 total and 47 avg).

 

Geather, 337 and 53, but Willis will surpass him when the Miami totals are added.

[Smoke317]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Rock has played the most snaps through 8 games (445 total 67 avg) vs Willis (327 total and 47 avg).

 

Geather, 337 and 53, but Willis will surpass him when the Miami totals are added.

Wow. Rock thrown right into the deep end. Best way to learn I guess.  Where does Walker land on that list?

[ColtsAC]

Willis earned it. When he plays, he's far more noticeable and productive than the 2019 version of Geathers. Injuries take their toll.

[Defjamz26]

Geathers doesn’t make any plays. Willis does. It’s as simple as that. The staff is right to decrease his snap count in favor of the rookie.

 

I like Willis but I’ll say this. So far he hasn’t done enough to make me think Ballard should not draft a safety early next year. Especially if someone like Grant Delpit is there. Still plenty of football left, but we need to keep seeing him get a lot of snaps to see just how good he has. Love what I’ve seen so far though.

[jbaron04]

About time 

[will426]

12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I think he's (Willis) more disruptive vs the run, but he's not great in coverage and really not a single-high capable guy. He's got a really good nose for the ball though. Geathers is rangier but inconsistent... I'd probably play him more than Willis vs pass heavy teams though. Both are different body types, and different types of players. Neither are really 3 down Ss IMO.

geathers fails in both aspects he can’t cover anyone   and he’s hit or miss on the tackle in which Willis at least is a sure tackler but i agree neither seem 3 down but willis is a rookie Geathers has shown he’s a liability playing/not playing due to his health don’t get me wrong i liked him before injuries took thier toll now it’s hard for him 

[ProblChld32]

19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I don't see Willis as having great speed. I actually see him as more of a box safety to be honest. Not that I think Geathers is a great S at all, but I see Willis as pretty limited too.

Willis has great speed and it shows on tape he closes really fast. I remember reading an article on all of the rookies and the scouts timed him with 4.4 speed. I think Geathers is somewhere around the 4.6 mark. From what I’ve seen so far and what they state he excels at, as far as cover goes he beats Geathers in that category and he’s as sure of a tackler as it gets. 

[EastStreet]

18 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Wow. Rock thrown right into the deep end. Best way to learn I guess.  Where does Walker land on that list?

yup. deep end for real.

 

Walker was 3rd on D with 398.

 

They updated with the Miami game

https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/indianapolis-colts-snap-counts

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

Willis has great speed and it shows on tape he closes really fast. I remember reading an article on all of the rookies and the scouts timed him with 4.4 speed. I think Geathers is somewhere around the 4.6 mark. From what I’ve seen so far and what they state he excels at, as far as cover goes he beats Geathers in that category and he’s as sure of a tackler as it gets. 

Just looked up Willis's combine profile. Willis clocked in at 4.52.

Here's what they had to say about speed/burst. 

Quote

 

Below-average athlete lacking explosiveness

Top-end speed is a concern

Struggles to range over the top from deep zone

Slow to open hips and sprint with early speed

Tight strider with below-average burst to close

Limited lateral agility to maintain man coverage

Very modest ball production

 

Quote

and overview

 

Team leader known for his leadership and work ethic, Willis has been a reliable performer with a good nose for the football. However, he's an average athlete with below-average speed who needs to keep plays in front of him, so finding a roster spot on the next level could be a challenge. His high football character and consistent effort level, give him a shot at finding work as a backup with special teams value .

 

I like Willis, but think the above is pretty accurate. He's smarter than fast (nose for the ball) and puts himself in good position, is good in short/intermediate coverage (TEs etc), but struggles deeper. Not saying he's bad, just being realistic. He's definitely an upgrade, at least on most downs.

[MB-ColtsFan]

Willis is a surer tackler and takes better angles.  He arrives sooner than Geathers, in my opinion.  His quickness on the read is way better than Geathers as well.

 

I don't know that we have to spend a pick on an early S unless one falls into our lap.  Willis should only get better next year (we hope).

[Smoke317]

Willis has that Bethea vibe about him.  Just a solid football player who'll probably play a decade in the league.  Flus had no problem with him playing 100% of the snaps when Hooker was out.  That's quite impressive for a later round rookie. 

[ProblChld32]

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Just looked up Willis's combine profile. Willis clocked in at 4.52.

Here's what they had to say about speed/burst. 

 

 

I like Willis, but think the above is pretty accurate. He's smarter than fast (nose for the ball) and puts himself in good position, is good in short/intermediate coverage (TEs etc), but struggles deeper. Not saying he's bad, just being realistic. He's definitely an upgrade, at least on most downs.

Yea that’s what his combine profile states but when the scouts took him through position drills and had him run his 40 at pro day their numbers tell a different story. And anyone can tell you a 40 yard dash is all about technique. Track speed doesn’t necessarily translate to “On the Field Speed” but I found the article and verbatim this is what the scouts said on Willis. If you’re curious to read the entire article it’s on Colts.com and titled “Through the Scouts Eye”

 

“So, you see him not only playing in the box, but I mean, he's played free safety. He plays nickel. He's played on the slot and he did a pretty good job with that. I think he's faster than a lot of people and a lot of people give him credit for it and he tested pretty well that way. I think he ran in the 4.4s, and he's a very well-rounded player. I was always taught a long time ago slow safety usually get your beat, dumb safeties always get your beat. He's the polar opposite of both. So, we're really excited about him.”

[EastStreet]

58 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

Yea that’s what his combine profile states but when the scouts took him through position drills and had him run his 40 at pro day their numbers tell a different story. And anyone can tell you a 40 yard dash is all about technique. Track speed doesn’t necessarily translate to “On the Field Speed” but I found the article and verbatim this is what the scouts said on Willis. If you’re curious to read the entire article it’s on Colts.com and titled “Through the Scouts Eye”

 

“So, you see him not only playing in the box, but I mean, he's played free safety. He plays nickel. He's played on the slot and he did a pretty good job with that. I think he's faster than a lot of people and a lot of people give him credit for it and he tested pretty well that way. I think he ran in the 4.4s, and he's a very well-rounded player. I was always taught a long time ago slow safety usually get your beat, dumb safeties always get your beat. He's the polar opposite of both. So, we're really excited about him.”

Willis ran in the low 4.5s in both his pro day and combine. No offense, but the articles on Colts.com are always very kind to the guys we draft. Like I said, love Willis, I just think he's more of a box guy. And low 4.5s is fast enough. He's field fast in the short space, which is great. 

[SteelCityColt]

49 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Willis ran in the low 4.5s in both his pro day and combine. No offense, but the articles on Colts.com are always very kind to the guys we draft. Like I said, love Willis, I just think he's more of a box guy. And low 4.5s is fast enough. He's field fast in the short space, which is great. 

 

I think there's a danger with any position of getting enamoured with the 40 time, I'd put 3 cone over it certainly. However, as always never go by just one metric, and never put metrics over film. 

 

For all that was written about him being a below average athlete, if you compare  him to some of the 'good' SS's in the league he matches up pretty well:

 

Willis 4.55s (40)/7.15s (3 Cone)

Collins 4.53s (40)/7.53s (3 Cone)

Chancellor 4.69s (40)/7.36s (3 Cone)

Jones  4.51s (40)/7.43s (3 Cone) 

Adams  4.56s (40)/6.96s (3 Cone) 

 

etc etc... 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

On 11/12/2019 at 1:08 AM, ProblChld32 said:

I’m gonna have to disagree, Willis is far better in coverage than Geathers is and faster so he closes quicker. I’d definitely put Willis in a single high look over Geathers. Geathers has always been a liability in coverage. He’s simply a box safety.

and does not hit hard enough to be a force in the box

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

On 11/12/2019 at 1:30 AM, EastStreet said:

I don't see Willis as having great speed. I actually see him as more of a box safety to be honest. Not that I think Geathers is a great S at all, but I see Willis as pretty limited too.

what willis lacks in speed his instincts for the ball more than make up for it

[Defjamz26]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Just looked up Willis's combine profile. Willis clocked in at 4.52.

Here's what they had to say about speed/burst. 

 

 

I like Willis, but think the above is pretty accurate. He's smarter than fast (nose for the ball) and puts himself in good position, is good in short/intermediate coverage (TEs etc), but struggles deeper. Not saying he's bad, just being realistic. He's definitely an upgrade, at least on most downs.

He’s just as fast as Jamal Adams...

[SteelCityColt]

4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He’s just as fast as Jamal Adams...

 

Adams has a pretty crazy 3 cone time though. 

20 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

what willis lacks in speed his instincts for the ball more than make up for it

 

He's really not all that slow.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

On 11/12/2019 at 12:39 AM, Chloe6124 said:

Have you guys noticed hooker playing up in the box more. He keeps improving his game.

I will get blasted on here for this but he needs to improve his game, he has not lived up to the hype  and is injury prone. imo he is just average at best

[Defjamz26]

36 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Adams has a pretty crazy 3 cone time though. 

 

He's really not all that slow.

 

Well he’s basically just as fast as any box safety. Idk where these concerns over his speed are coming from.

[throwing BBZ]

6 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I think there's a danger with any position of getting enamoured with the 40 time, I'd put 3 cone over it certainly. However, as always never go by just one metric, and never put metrics over film. 

 

For all that was written about him being a below average athlete, if you compare  him to some of the 'good' SS's in the league he matches up pretty well:

 

Willis 4.55s (40)/7.15s (3 Cone)

Collins 4.53s (40)/7.53s (3 Cone)

Chancellor 4.69s (40)/7.36s (3 Cone)

Jones  4.51s (40)/7.43s (3 Cone) 

Adams  4.56s (40)/6.96s (3 Cone) 

 

etc etc... 

 

 Excellent perspective, thank you. Most would agree his instincts seem very good.
 And he is getting guys down. Ballard said he wanted him in the 3rd, so we can see why he traded up to get him. 
 Tell is looking legit, like he might have a very high ceiling. Gotta get that front seven right.

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

Well he’s basically just as fast as any box safety. Idk where these concerns over his speed are coming from.

 

From his draft profiles mostly it seems. The 40 time is so massively overblown in terms of whether a prospect is a good player or not. 3 cone as least represents the agility/speed combo that's more in line with how the game is actually played. 

[OffensivelyPC]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:02 AM, Chloe6124 said:

Geathers only played 4 snaps.

Where are you seeing this at?  PFR has him at 6 snaps on D, 9 on ST.  15 total.