This Is What I Feared...

[shakedownstreet]

if we choose RGIII i will throw up. i havent seen so much hype over a late bloomer since leaf and russel and we all know how that turned out.

i want luck too, but the leaf/russel comparison is unfair. rgIII has a work ethic

[CR91]

i want luck too, but the leaf/russel comparison is unfair. rgIII has a work ethic

not talking about his ability im talking about his hype

[grmasterb]

i want luck too, but the leaf/russel comparison is unfair. rgIII has a work ethic

But not the same track record. Advantage Luck.

[grmasterb]

I dunno, Grigson's picking up a few Eagles O-Liners who are used to QBs running, could be preparing...

I think Grigson sees these former Eagles as servicable players who can perhaps fill immediate needs at a reasonable price. I don't see any of them as long-term solutions. Over time we will re-stock the OL through the draft. Grigson just realizes we can't fill all holes in this draft.

[Mameluc]

Hope? Probably not the right word. We're more than content with RGIII and rank the two QBs far closer together than you guys appear to. We just like to put that asterisk into the discussion because we know that until the first pick none of us really knows what Irsay is planning.

The only things Vick and Griffin have in common is that they are fast and black.

Vick had miserable accuracy in college and for a very large chunk of his pro career. He didn't even bother trying to turn himself into a real QB until his prison stint was over and he landed in Philly. He was also a run first player for a long time and is a very serious headcase.

Griffin has considerably more accuracy throwing all over the field and remains a pass-first QB even when he's flushed out of the pocket. He's bigger than Vick, smarter than Vick, and more disciplined than Vick. You might as well compare him to Vince Young, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Daunte Culpepper, Cam Newton, or Randall Cunningham. They're all equally poor comparisons based on the same two factors.

Polian is on record as liking both about equally. He's said that which one is better depends primarily on team/scheme. Stated outright that RGIII would be good in a Texans-style offense (Skins) and implied that Luck made more sense for the Colts.

i think RGIII and Mcnabb are fair comparisions... Mcnabb was pretty good when young IMO

[Coffeedrinker]

if we choose RGIII i will throw up. i havent seen so much hype over a late bloomer since leaf and russel and we all know how that turned out.

How is he a late bloomer? Russell had one good season, Leaf had two... RGIII has had 4 good years plus three games.

[CR91]

How is he a late bloomer? Russell had one good season, Leaf had two... RGIII has had 4 good years plus three games.

but no one even mentioned him in the same sentence with luck until this year

[hawkeyes]

How is he a late bloomer? Russell had one good season, Leaf had two... RGIII has had 4 good years plus three games.

Russell at least played decent competition at LSU ... who did Baylor play over those four years?

I concur with the late bloomer comment as it wasn't until this past season that I had ever heard of RGIII ...

[UndecidedFrog]

How is he a late bloomer? Russell had one good season, Leaf had two... RGIII has had 4 good years plus three games.

Correction, RG3 only had 3 years and 3 games.

And his only good year was in 2011.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/378497/robert-griffin-iii

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/380470/andrew-luck

[betheafan41]

I dunno, Grigson's picking up a few Eagles O-Liners who are used to QBs running, could be preparing...

Luck is good running outside of the pocket also. and he is just as fast as RG3. i think your reading to much into who their picking up for the oline.

[buccolts]

I dunno, Grigson's picking up a few Eagles O-Liners who are used to QBs running, could be preparing...

Yeah, but that's picking from a group who have been criticized for not protecting very well, and that criticism may be more of an accusation of Vick than the OL.

Also, Vick is historically a run first QB, which has also been a concern for RG3.

However, others suggest that RG3 isn't that at all, that he's pass first, but is mobile if need be.

Same has been said of Luck.

Therefore, I wouldn't put too much stock into this.

I DO believe we're taking Luck, and would be highly surprised if we take RG3, at this point in time.

I wouldn't be knocked over though.

[fvantagio]

I keep seeing this. I think RG3 is gonna be a pretty good player as well, not better than Luck, just my opinion, but a pretty darn good player. With that said, I think it's pretty fair to say a lot of people see him in the mold of Mike Vick, not saying you do, but as a general rule of thumb. Is this the upside everyone is talking about? Because if so, that's not something I would really be thrilled with. He's had 1 fantastic season, and the rest would be avg. at best. From a QB stand point.

Not at all. Look at what RG3 has done, he went from a olympic hopeful hurdler to heisman winning qb in a few years. Every year he drastically improved his QBing. He rehabbed through a torn ACL (in which he played out the half on) and still runs 4.41 40? To me that says one thing and thats that RG3 is the hardest working player in this draft...including Luck. To say he has had 1 good season proves your just going by the stats.

Plus I no longer put him in with Mike Vick. Id compare him to Aaron Rodgers because RG3 is a QB first, athlete 2nd. He just happens to twice as athletic as Rodgers.

[Coffeedrinker]

Correction, RG3 only had 3 years and 3 games.

And his only good year was in 2011.

http://espn.go.com/c...ert-griffin-iii

http://espn.go.com/c...470/andrew-luck

Thee and 3 you are correct. But all three (and the three) were all good. Ending with an excellent season.

[Coffeedrinker]

Russell at least played decent competition at LSU ... who did Baylor play over those four years?

I concur with the late bloomer comment as it wasn't until this past season that I had ever heard of RGIII ...

So because you've never heard of him, he's a late bloomer? A friend of mine, who is into scouting college ball, told me about RGIII last year even predicted he would be considered one of the top QBs in the 2012 draft. When he described him to me, he said imagine Michael Vick with excellent work ethic and accuracy.

So just because you had not heard of him in your little world doesn't mean he's a late bloomer, it just means you had not heard of him.

[UndecidedFrog]

Thee and 3 you are correct. But all three (and the three) were all good. Ending with an excellent season.

Yes, all three (and 3) were good seasons, with the final one being an excellent one.

Now compare that to Luck's 3 seasons. All 3 seasons were good seasons, with hIs last 2 seasons being excellent.

Luck wins.

[Coffeedrinker]

but no one even mentioned him in the same sentence with luck until this year

Some people did.

[CR91]

Some people did.

have you ever heard his name mentioned by the talking heads in the same sentence as luck? thats what i meant when i said hes a late bloomer

[Coffeedrinker]

Yes, all three (and 3) were good seasons, with the final one being an excellent one.

Now compare that to Luck's 3 seasons. All 3 seasons were good seasons, with hIs last 2 seasons being excellent.

Luck wins.

Yet he has a lower completion percentage, fewer yards and fewer TDs.

Plus you want to try to act like I'm saying RGIII is better than Luck and I have never said that. I have actually mentioned in numerous threads that I don't like running Qbs and I think Luck is a more NFL type QB.

I just don't understand why people want to make up things about RGIII to make themselves feel better. RGIII was a superb college QB for his entire college career and he shows a lot of the intangibles that make for good NFL Qbs... work ethic, toughness, accuracy, ability to learn and adapt, coachable, etc.

[UndecidedFrog]

Plus you want to try to act like I'm saying RGIII is better than Luck and I have never said that. I have actually mentioned in numerous threads that I don't like running Qbs and I think Luck is a more NFL type QB.

No. I do not want to try to act like you're saying anything that you haven't said. I am merely providing facts.

I just don't understand why people want to make up things about RGIII to make themselves feel better. RGIII was a superb college QB for his entire college career and he shows a lot of the intangibles that make for good NFL Qbs... work ethic, toughness, accuracy, ability to learn and adapt, coachable, etc.

Neither do I. RG3 was a very good college QB, and is a good QB prospect. Yes, he rates highly on many characteristics. However, in comparison to Andrew Luck, he quickly fades into the background.

[IndyTrav]

The only things Vick and Griffin have in common is that they are fast and black.

Vick had miserable accuracy in college and for a very large chunk of his pro career. He didn't even bother trying to turn himself into a real QB until his prison stint was over and he landed in Philly. He was also a run first player for a long time and is a very serious headcase.

Griffin has considerably more accuracy throwing all over the field and remains a pass-first QB even when he's flushed out of the pocket. He's bigger than Vick, smarter than Vick, and more disciplined than Vick. You might as well compare him to Vince Young, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Daunte Culpepper, Cam Newton, or Randall Cunningham. They're all equally poor comparisons based on the same two factors.

RG3 6-2 220

Vick 6-0 215

Young 6-5 230

Cam 6-5 248

Cunningham 6-4 212

McNair 6-2 235

McNabb 6-2 240

I think its an appropriate comparision. Race having nothing to do with it. Size and Speed having everything to do with it.

Not at all. Look at what RG3 has done, he went from a olympic hopeful hurdler to heisman winning qb in a few years. Every year he drastically improved his QBing. He rehabbed through a torn ACL (in which he played out the half on) and still runs 4.41 40? To me that says one thing and thats that RG3 is the hardest working player in this draft...including Luck. To say he has had 1 good season proves your just going by the stats.

Plus I no longer put him in with Mike Vick. Id compare him to Aaron Rodgers because RG3 is a QB first, athlete 2nd. He just happens to twice as athletic as Rodgers.

I said Vick had one good season.

Rodgers?! Thats a tall mountian to climb my friend. Like I said I think he will be good, but wowza.

You think in RG3s first 4 years starting, he'll do this?

17,037yds (4,259yr) 131TDs (32+yr) 105+ QBR, 1,136rushyds 16Rush TDs......Thats an extremely tall order...Like I said, I think he'll be good, but Rodgers is a player whom many simply cannot reach...

[jemack]

Anyone high on Weeden

[bavanlan]

Anyone high on Weeden

It's 1:46 in the afternoon, so Jaric probably is.

Wait, Weeden?

[hawkeyes]

So just because you had not heard of him in your little world doesn't mean he's a late bloomer, it just means you had not heard of him.

This isnt 1940 ... with all the sports networks and the Internet the entire world hears about guys. If he had been a great prospect his first few years at Baylor I would have heard about him and I didn't until this past season when he put up big numbers. I watched him in his bowl game this year - I was not impressed at all. Sure he can run fast and has a few moves, but against the better competition his throwing wasn't all that!

[Andy]

That article is just the media trying to stir up some things. It's what they always try to do, put out another scenario that throws people off guard. Don't take this too seriously.

[GAColt]

RG3 had a great college career, but played in a spread offense against some very bad defenses (5 of the worst 25 in the country). He is more of a risk to be a bust than Luck. He seems to be an intelligent guy with a great work ethic, so if he is a bust, it will be because his skill set doesn't translate to the NFL. College QB's that have run the spread offense and put up great numbers, more often than not, haven't made it in the NFL.

[Coffeedrinker]

No. I do not want to try to act like you're saying anything that you haven't said. I am merely providing facts.

"Luck wins" is not a fact

Neither do I. RG3 was a very good college QB, and is a good QB prospect. Yes, he rates highly on many characteristics. However, in comparison to Andrew Luck, he quickly fades into the background.

Obviously not.

[Coffeedrinker]

This isnt 1940 ... with all the sports networks and the Internet the entire world hears about guys. If he had been a great prospect his first few years at Baylor I would have heard about him and I didn't until this past season when he put up big numbers.

Since you claim to have not heard of him that is obviously not true is it?

I watched him in his bowl game this year - I was not impressed at all.

So.

Sure he can run fast and has a few moves, but against the better competition his throwing wasn't all that!

This is not really a statement than can be supported with facts.

[hawkeyes]

Since you claim to have not heard of him that is obviously not true is it?

So.

This is not really a statement than can be supported with facts.

What? I'm sure the game is on file somewhere go watch it - it can be validated.

[RGIII]

Correction, RG3 only had 3 years and 3 games.

And his only good year was in 2011.

http://espn.go.com/c...ert-griffin-iii

http://espn.go.com/c...470/andrew-luck

2010 was a good year for RGIII. It wasn't an elite year but it was very good. His senior season definitely elevated his draft status but he was still considered to be a late first or early second round type of talent by a lot of people in the know before he lit it up in 2011. The fact that he played for Baylor and, as such, didn't get a lot of exposure is why most people think that he completely came out of nowhere.

Not at all. Look at what RG3 has done, he went from a olympic hopeful hurdler to heisman winning qb in a few years. Every year he drastically improved his QBing. He rehabbed through a torn ACL (in which he played out the half on) and still runs 4.41 40? To me that says one thing and thats that RG3 is the hardest working player in this draft...including Luck. To say he has had 1 good season proves your just going by the stats.

Plus I no longer put him in with Mike Vick. Id compare him to Aaron Rodgers because RG3 is a QB first, athlete 2nd. He just happens to twice as athletic as Rodgers.

Well said.

This isnt 1940 ... with all the sports networks and the Internet the entire world hears about guys. If he had been a great prospect his first few years at Baylor I would have heard about him and I didn't until this past season when he put up big numbers. I watched him in his bowl game this year - I was not impressed at all. Sure he can run fast and has a few moves, but against the better competition his throwing wasn't all that!

Effort and research are still required to actually be knowledgeable, even with the proliferation of easily available information courtesy of the internet and 24 hour sports networks.

I think its an appropriate comparision. Race having nothing to do with it. Size and Speed having everything to do with it.

It's a weak size comparison given that two inches and 15 pounds (Vick's combine weight was 210) is actually a pretty sizable difference. The speed and arm strength comparison is the most fair one you can make but beyond that they are completely different. Hence, it's still a bad overall comparison in my book.

Rodgers?! Thats a tall mountian to climb my friend. Like I said I think he will be good, but wowza.

You think in RG3s first 4 years starting, he'll do this?

17,037yds (4,259yr) 131TDs (32+yr) 105+ QBR, 1,136rushyds 16Rush TDs......Thats an extremely tall order...Like I said, I think he'll be good, but Rodgers is a player whom many simply cannot reach...

Don't forget that Rodgers spent a lot of time developing behind Favre, too. He wasn't nearly as good coming out as he was once he took the field as a starter.

[Coffeedrinker]

What? I'm sure the game is on file somewhere go watch it - it can be validated.

One, you said against better competition and two it's not supported by facts. Just the bowl game, 72% completion, 1 TD no picks and the most impressive thing was watching him go through his progressions. He didn't have to do it on every throw but when his 1st option wasn't there he would look to his 2nd option and a couple of times his 3rd option before running.

4 TDs against the Sooner

5 TD/1 INt against K State

his only "bad game" against upper competition was against Ok. State. where he completed on 66% of his passes with 1 TD and 2 INTs.

Baylor is(was) in the Big 12, it's not like it's the Ohio Athletic Conference or Conference USA. It's not the top conference like the SEC but they have some good programs there.

[haughvillian]

The more I read forums and see the responses to the Luck/RGIII debate, I feel the fan base is becoming divided on this. Though most still prefer Luck, the more crap the media puts out there about the Colt's are now considering RGIII, there's going to be that divide. Bottom line is the Colt's are safe this year since season ticket renewals are already counted for next year but a divided fan base is not a good thing. I still think the best thing for them to do is commit to the guy they want and stop with the drama. Do this after next weeks pro days for both guys and start working on the winner's contract. Get them in here and let them start learning. Of course I'm in the Luck camp and it's my opinion they will be blowing it if they pass on him....but hey, it's an opinion...right?

[UndecidedFrog]

"Luck wins" is not a fact

It is a fact when put into the context how the majority of scouts and analysts view him against RG3.

[fvantagio]

Rodgers?! Thats a tall mountian to climb my friend. Like I said I think he will be good, but wowza.

You think in RG3s first 4 years starting, he'll do this?

17,037yds (4,259yr) 131TDs (32+yr) 105+ QBR, 1,136rushyds 16Rush TDs......Thats an extremely tall order...Like I said, I think he'll be good, but Rodgers is a player whom many simply cannot reach...

"Compare him to" I didnt say he would put up Rodgers type numbers or even be Rodgers caliber. Simply said if your going to compare him to an NFL player, then Rodgers is the closest out there. But either way I cant compare RG3 to Rodgers? But its fine to compare Luck to Manning and Elway...and you want to talk about tall orders.

[Jules]

Doubt it.

It's Luck.

But, the story has to be there to make it more interesting.

[Coffeedrinker]

It is a fact when put into the context how the majority of scouts and analysts view him against RG3.

So, if the Colts do shock the football world and draft RGIII then I guess RGIII wins.

[UndecidedFrog]

So, if the Colts do shock the football world and draft RGIII then I guess RGIII wins.

Nope, if the Colts decide to go against what the majority of scouts and analysts say, they are just going contrary.

Luck still wins, in the context of how the majority of scouts and analysts rate him against RG3.

[Coffeedrinker]

Doubt it.

It's Luck.

Most likely

But, the story has to be there to make it more interesting.

It's funny to watch the Colts fans reaction to it (and Luck fans pretending to be Colts fans)

[Coffeedrinker]

Nope, if the Colts decide to go against what the majority of scouts and analysts say, they are just going contrary.

Luck still wins, in the context of how the majority of scouts and analysts rate him against RG3.

I didn't realize scouts and analysts determined winners, even in the context of what they think.

[GrizzColt]

I personally hope they are both in the upper echelon. It's good for football to have a lot of great QBs and hopefully Luck will be one of them. It looks like we're going to eventually build a pretty good defense for Luck, which would alleviate a lot of the pressure that Manning had on him.

[UndecidedFrog]

I didn't realize scouts and analysts determined winners, even in the context of what they think.

You probably didn't realize that scouts and analysts determine who is considered as the consensus top-rated prospect in this upcoming draft.

But that's OK.