Mike Francesa WFAN NY praising Reich + Ballard

[HOF19]

Paraphrasing …… "The Colts have done what the Giants have not . # 1 priority protect your FRANCHISE PLAYER". Francesa words >>>>>>>  "They have done a good job rebuilding and they have done it FAST !"...… " The Colts might.....might be coming "

[HOF19]

Understand Francesa is one of the top 10 Andrew Luck fans in the human race !!!!!!!!!!!!…..Has been since Stanford !

[Superman]

The Giants have failed due to evaluation. But they went big in free agency with Solder, and they've spent several high picks on linemen as well. 

[Trueman]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

The Giants have failed due to evaluation. But they went big in free agency with Solder, and they've spent several high picks on linemen as well. 

Eh. I think Barkley over Darnold was a colossal mistake. 

Not sure if that falls in the category of "evaluation" , or just flawed roster philosophy. 

 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Trueman said:

Eh. I think Barkley over Darnold was a colossal mistake. 

Not sure if that falls in the category of "evaluation" , or just flawed roster philosophy. 

 

 

I was replying to what they've done to protect the QB. They could have done something different at #2 this year, but they've already taken significant steps to improve protection. Some would argue taking Barkley was meant to take pressure off the QB; I don't subscribe to that line of reasoning, but we saw a lot of that here before the draft about the Colts taking Barkley. 

[PeterBowman]

Just like Grigson....it's not like he failed the trenches by not doing anything....he tried, A LOT.....he just did it poorly.

[MTC]

Probably shouldn’t have drafted Barkley at #2.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

12 minutes ago, MTC said:

Probably shouldn’t have drafted Barkley at #2.

 

It's almost like they care more about putting butts in seats & selling jerseys instead of building a winner.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

13 minutes ago, MTC said:

Probably shouldn’t have drafted Barkley at #2.

 

Barkley's one of the best RBs in the league and probably the best player on the G-men right now... that team has a lot of holes across the board.. sure, they need line help, etc.. but Barkley is a once in a generation player and he looks very good so far.

[Trueman]

7 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Barkley's one of the best RBs in the league and probably the best player on the G-men right now... that team has a lot of holes across the board.. sure, they need line help, etc.. but Barkley is a once in a generation player and he looks very good so far.

And yet , they suck. A generational RB is nice , but if you don't have more important positions covered , it means nothing. 

They passed up on a franchise QB for a franchise RB. That makes no sense - at all. 

Now they're probably banking on Herbert declaring , and if he doesn't , they'll still have no long term answer. Next year's draft QB class is nowhere's near as good as 2018's. 

And , if they do get Herbert , it's still Darnold>Herbert , imo... and I don't think it's particularly close. 
 

[shakedownstreet]

Ballard & Reich wouldn't look so brilliant right now had Luck not made the 100% comeback

 

If he hadn't we'd be in the same boat as the Giants

[shakedownstreet]

Like Peyton Manning. He made a lot of other people household names not to mention hall of famers

[MB-ColtsFan]

 

1 hour ago, Superman said:

The Giants have failed due to evaluation. But they went big in free agency with Solder, and they've spent several high picks on linemen as well. 

 

21 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

Just like Grigson....it's not like he failed the trenches by not doing anything....he tried, A LOT.....he just did it poorly.

A lot of truth in these two posts.  Getting Solder was a great move on paper, as was drafting Hernandez.  Going into the season they would have looked to improve the OLine dramatically (or at least the left side).  Some of the drops by receivers seems to have gotten better, though it is still a problem, but nothing like the lack of protection.  Solder looks average and Hernandez looks like a turnstile at times.  I still think Hernandez was the correct pick and can be coached up, but not sure what's going on with Solder?  Is it having a raw rookie at his right side?

[Peterk2011]

53 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I was replying to what they've done to protect the QB. They could have done something different at #2 this year, but they've already taken significant steps to improve protection. Some would argue taking Barkley was meant to take pressure off the QB; I don't subscribe to that line of reasoning, but we saw a lot of that here before the draft about the Colts taking Barkley. 

 

Hmm, I dunno. Solder is elite run blocker, but never was a good pass protector. He was fine in the Pats system, because Brady throws the ball quicker than anyone in the league. But in NY? The minute I saw the Giants signing him, I thought "why? he is not good fit there"?  But then, they drafted Barkley, and I though that is the reason why they signed Solder. To support Barkley and revive the running game (which was also atrocious in there).

 

Honestly, looking around in the NFL, I start to believe that it's next to impossible to fix a bad oline by signing free agents. Teams, who have good olines are all drafted their guys, not signed them. Dallas, the Titans, the Saints, the Patriots, the Steelers, the Colts (fingers crossed that it's not early to include us here), etc.  While let's just look how thos big money free agents play right now with their new teams. Norwell is OK at best. Solder and Omameh are struggling. Ryan Jensen is meh with the Bucs, Pugh is bad, etc.

 

The only exception may be Withworth to the Rams last year. But that is an outlier. You don't sign a 34 years old guy for multiple years for top dollars and come out winning the deal usually.

[IinD]

23 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

It's almost like they care more about putting butts in seats & selling jerseys instead of building a winner.

Our fanbase?? Definitely..

 

Oh you meant the Giants...

[Trueman]

9 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Hmm, I dunno. Solder is elite run blocker, but never was a good pass protector. He was fine in the Pats system, because Brady throws the ball quicker than anyone in the league. But in NY? The minute I saw the Giants signing him, I thought "why? he is not good fit there"?  But then, they drafted Barkley, and I though that is the reason why they signed Solder. To support Barkley and revive the running game (which was also atrocious in there).

 

Honestly, looking around in the NFL, I start to believe that it's next to impossible to fix a bad oline by signing free agents. Teams, who have good olines are all drafted their guys, not signed them. Dallas, the Titans, the Saints, the Patriots, the Steelers, the Colts (fingers crossed that it's not early to include us here), etc.  While let's just look how thos big money free agents play right now with their new teams. Norwell is OK at best. Solder and Omameh are struggling. Ryan Jensen is meh with the Bucs, Pugh is bad, etc.

 

The only exception may be Withworth to the Rams last year. But that is an outlier. You don't sign a 34 years old guy for multiple years for top dollars and come out winning the deal usually.

It's the fallacy that free agents are vastly more certain than draft picks. 

That's just not the case. Free agent busts are extremely common as well. 

[HectorRoberts]

9 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Hmm, I dunno. Solder is elite run blocker, but never was a good pass protector. He was fine in the Pats system, because Brady throws the ball quicker than anyone in the league. But in NY? The minute I saw the Giants signing him, I thought "why? he is not good fit there"?  But then, they drafted Barkley, and I though that is the reason why they signed Solder. To support Barkley and revive the running game (which was also atrocious in there).

 

Honestly, looking around in the NFL, I start to believe that it's next to impossible to fix a bad oline by signing free agents. Teams, who have good olines are all drafted their guys, not signed them. Dallas, the Titans, the Saints, the Patriots, the Steelers, the Colts (fingers crossed that it's not early to include us here), etc.  While let's just look how thos big money free agents play right now with their new teams. Norwell is OK at best. Solder and Omameh are struggling. Ryan Jensen is meh with the Bucs, Pugh is bad, etc.

 

The only exception may be Withworth to the Rams last year. But that is an outlier. You don't sign a 34 years old guy for multiple years for top dollars and come out winning the deal usually.

I freakin love Whitworth! I think he is my all time favorite o-lineman. Every where he goes he make the entire line better.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Trueman said:

Eh. I think Barkley over Darnold was a colossal mistake. 

Not sure if that falls in the category of "evaluation" , or just flawed roster philosophy. 

 

 

It was a big mistake. But if Eli tanks them to a top QB next year...and that QB turns out as good as Darnold...then they will be bailed out. But that's a lot of pain and risk to subject yourself to in the meantime.

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Hmm, I dunno. Solder is elite run blocker, but never was a good pass protector. He was fine in the Pats system, because Brady throws the ball quicker than anyone in the league. But in NY? The minute I saw the Giants signing him, I thought "why? he is not good fit there"?  But then, they drafted Barkley, and I though that is the reason why they signed Solder. To support Barkley and revive the running game (which was also atrocious in there).

 

Honestly, looking around in the NFL, I start to believe that it's next to impossible to fix a bad oline by signing free agents. Teams, who have good olines are all drafted their guys, not signed them. Dallas, the Titans, the Saints, the Patriots, the Steelers, the Colts (fingers crossed that it's not early to include us here), etc.  While let's just look how thos big money free agents play right now with their new teams. Norwell is OK at best. Solder and Omameh are struggling. Ryan Jensen is meh with the Bucs, Pugh is bad, etc.

 

The only exception may be Withworth to the Rams last year. But that is an outlier. You don't sign a 34 years old guy for multiple years for top dollars and come out winning the deal usually.

 

The Colts just played a team that mostly bought their OL in free agency. They kind of dominated our defensive front in both phases. It's possible, but definitely difficult, and far more expensive than drafting good linemen several years in a row. 

[Indyfan4life]

Barkley could have been a fantastic pick for the Giants had they supplied the talent around him and Eli. 

 

They em would have been better going with an elite defender or Oline. 

 

Which is is why I’m glad we picked up Nelson and worked to protect Luck. It’s been evident the last 3-4 games the line is turning around, and AC coming back only helped. I truly believe this off-season will be more for solidifying the line and getting more defensive help while picking up a WR in FA possibly. 

[Trueman]

7 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

It was a big mistake. But if Eli tanks them to a top QB next year...and that QB turns out as good as Darnold...then they will be bailed out. But that's a lot of pain and risk to subject yourself to in the meantime.

Yeah, there's a conceivable reality where it all works out in the end , but a lot of things need to go right. All they had to do was pick the guy that fell in their laps. 

Either way, the next guy they draft (if they go that route) will be at least a year behind Darnold in his development , and thus their window of contention will be delayed another season. And this is under the assumption whoever it is will be on Darnold's level (which I doubt).

They made a win-now move , for a team that wasn't remotely close to winning now.

[shasta519]

15 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Hmm, I dunno. Solder is elite run blocker, but never was a good pass protector. He was fine in the Pats system, because Brady throws the ball quicker than anyone in the league. But in NY? The minute I saw the Giants signing him, I thought "why? he is not good fit there"?  But then, they drafted Barkley, and I though that is the reason why they signed Solder. To support Barkley and revive the running game (which was also atrocious in there).

 

Honestly, looking around in the NFL, I start to believe that it's next to impossible to fix a bad oline by signing free agents. Teams, who have good olines are all drafted their guys, not signed them. Dallas, the Titans, the Saints, the Patriots, the Steelers, the Colts (fingers crossed that it's not early to include us here), etc.  While let's just look how thos big money free agents play right now with their new teams. Norwell is OK at best. Solder and Omameh are struggling. Ryan Jensen is meh with the Bucs, Pugh is bad, etc.

 

The only exception may be Withworth to the Rams last year. But that is an outlier. You don't sign a 34 years old guy for multiple years for top dollars and come out winning the deal usually.

 

That's not really true. OL FAs have transitioned nicely over the past few years. That's not to say you could build an entire OL via FA/trades...but you can definitely add 1-2 starters for it.

 

PHI added Brooks and Wisniewski via FA...and won the Super Bowl. 

 

ATL signed Mack and traded for Levitre...and went to the Super Bowl.

 

NO signed Warford (who I really wanted the Colts to sign)...and previously traded for Unger. 

 

KC signed Mitchell Schwartz (another one I really wanted the Colts to sign) and took a flyer on Erving.

 

LAR signed Whitworth and took a flyer on Blythe (that one stings).

 

I think a balance of talent is the best approach...and that seems to be what the best teams do (NE being the outlier).

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The Colts just played a team that mostly bought their OL in free agency. They kind of dominated our defensive front in both phases. It's possible, but definitely difficult, and far more expensive than drafting good linemen several years in a row. 

 

Yeah...the Raiders put together an elite OL, largely through FA. 

 

If anything...draft is probably the riskier play...given the use of spread offenses. Just look at the quality of OTs entering the NFL (no wonder Nate Solder got $15M).

 

But overall, I think it's one part  numbers game and another part talent evaluation. To get the numbers and right combo of talent...you should probably have a nice balance of established talent (FAs, trades) and draft picks. Grigs tried that...but he failed at talent evaluation. If a couple of OGs had panned out (like Thornton and Mewhort)...and he had signed a Mitchell Schwartz at RT...then Ryan Kelly suddenly becomes the final piece of a good OL. But unfornuately that didn't happen.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, Trueman said:

Eh. I think Barkley over Darnold was a colossal mistake. 

Not sure if that falls in the category of "evaluation" , or just flawed roster philosophy. 

 

 

It's not always easy. Choose-

 

Sam Darnold and Nick Chubb (and lose Will Hernandez too)

 

Saquon Barkely and  Kyle Lauletta (and also get Hernandez)

 

I'm telling you, Lauletta floored Gettleman and Shurmur at the Senior Bowl.  Kyle Lauletta was the offensive standout, and Darius Leonard was the defensive standout.

 

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/lauletta-leonard-are-fcs-standouts-at-senior-bowl-012718

 

NY Giants aren't interested in JB or any other QB right now.  My guess is he is learning behind Eli how to prepare, film study, etc.  Mark this. Once the G men are mathematically eliminated from post season possibilities, they will start Lauletta over Manning and get him the game experience he needs and see  what they have in him.

 

Giants problem last year was they broke Eli Manning's games started record to start... Geno Smith!! Not a young, potential replacement from a recent draft, but Geno!  This year They will want to evaluate Lauletta at some point (when out of playoff picture).  And Pat Shurmur is as much or more on  board there as the GM Gettleman.

 

https://www.bigblueview.com/2018/5/2/17308938/kyle-lauletta-new-giants-qb-better-than-advertised-2018-nfl-draft

 

If their plan works...   well... wow.

 

 

 

[Trueman]

2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

It's not always easy. Choose-

 

Sam Darnold and Nick Chubb (and lose Will Hernandez too)

 

Saquon Barkely and  Kyle Lauletta (and also get Hernandez)

Why can't I choose Darnold and Hernandez , exactly?

[ColtsBlueFL]

13 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Why can't I choose Darnold and Hernandez , exactly?

 

OK,  but your O line is just the same as it is today for Eli, and now you have NO running game to help your QB in the passing game. Since you also won't have Lauletta, you will have a 4th round pick to get a RB (but not nearly as good as Saquon...)  or sacrifice either your DT or OLB selected from round 3 for Royce Freeman?

 

If Kyle proves to be as good as Wentz and Leonard (FCS to NFL standout) have been, Giants will be set. It's apparent they feel the space between Darnold and Lauletta wasn't nearly as big as the difference between Barkley and any RB they could get later (plus they need that OL help).

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, MTC said:

Probably shouldn’t have drafted Barkley at #2.

 

Why not?  They may (or may not) have their franchise QB they are developing on the roster now.

 

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

It's almost like they care more about putting butts in seats & selling jerseys instead of building a winner.

 

Why can't they try to do both, but their way?  And what teams spends a 4th rounder on a QB, just to take one in round one the next year by design?

[Trueman]

2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

OK,  but your O line is just the same as it is today for Eli, and now you have NO running game to help your QB in the passing game. Since you also won't have Lauletta, you will have a 4th round pick to get a RB (but not nearly as good as Saquon...)  or sacrifice either your DT or OLB selected from round 3 for Royce Freeman?

 

If Kyle proves to be as good as Wentz and Leonard (FCS to NFL standout) have been, Giants will be set.

Why does my running game this season matter? They're 1-7 , man. I'm thinking about the next 15 years of my franchise here. Not my current running game. 

You're telling me if Lauletta turns out be as good as Wentz everything will be fine. I'll agree with that , but it doesn't mean it's remotely likely. 

 

[Mr.Debonair]

How can anyone say Barkley or Darnold is a mistake at this point in their careers? Verdict will be out on that years from now

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

16 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Why does my running game this season matter? They're 1-7 , man. I'm thinking about the next 15 years of my franchise here. Not my current running game. 

You're telling me if Lauletta turns out be as good as Wentz everything will be fine. I'll agree with that , but it doesn't mean it's remotely likely. 

 

Balanced offense is imperative.  Colts rushing success allowed Luck passing success, and team success.

 

Shurmur is a QB whisperer (that most don't know of)  He raised NcNabbs play, took Bradford to ROY (before his injuries plagued him),  was Nick Foles OC in 2013 when he had 27 TD's, 2 INT's, and a 119 QB rating.  Then last year took UDFA journeyman Case Keenum from a completion percentage of 58.4 and a career QB rating of 78.4 to a 67.6 completion percentage and a 98.3 QB rating.  I wouldn't count it out they make a winner out of their 4th rounder Senior Bowl MVP pick.

[Peterk2011]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

That's not really true. OL FAs have transitioned nicely over the past few years. That's not to say you could build an entire OL via FA/trades...but you can definitely add 1-2 starters for it.

 

I was referring to building an OL, not finishing a product. The Giants needed an entire OL, not just a LT. They still need at least 2, if not 3. (Solder is fine, if he will not be asked to hold the rusher for 4mp or more. He's just waay too expensive for what he is capable of doing.)

[Myles]

3 hours ago, Trueman said:

Eh. I think Barkley over Darnold was a colossal mistake. 

Not sure if that falls in the category of "evaluation" , or just flawed roster philosophy. 

 

I disagree.  They thought Manning was the QB for the next few years.  In fact they fired their last coach for benching Manning.   Barkley was a better pick than a QB, but they could have traded back and fixed their line.  

[Trueman]

50 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Balanced offense is imperative.  Colts rushing success allowed Luck passing success, and team success.

 

Shurmur is a QB whisperer (that most don't know of)  He raised NcNabbs play, took Bradford to ROY (before his injuries plagued him),  was Nick Foles OC in 2013 when he had 27 TD's, 2 INT's, and a 119 QB rating.  Then last year took UDFA journeyman Case Keenum from a completion percentage of 58.4 and a career QB rating of 78.4 to a 67.6 completion percentage and a 98.3 QB rating.  I wouldn't count it out they make a winner out of their 4th rounder Senior Bowl MVP pick.

You're missing the point. You keep talking about today and I'm saying Darnold is the piece you build your franchise around for 15 years. It's almost imperative that you have a top-flight QB nowadays , and having one is a huge advantage. 

If you think Lauletta is a player , then power to you , but Darnold is starting and showing a ton of promise right now. The chances Lauletta becomes anything close to a Carson Wentz (or Darnold) are beyond small.

For me, if you're a team that needs a QB and you pass on a franchise QB in the draft , there's almost nothing that could convince me it was the right call. Nothing.

It's a Cardinal sin. 

 

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, Trueman said:

Why does my running game this season matter? They're 1-7 , man. I'm thinking about the next 15 years of my franchise here. Not my current running game. 
 

they would not be much better with darnold and no barkely, behind the same line they have now

 

darnold is nothing special while barkley is 

[Trueman]

5 minutes ago, Myles said:

I disagree.  They thought Manning was the QB for the next few years.  In fact they fired their last coach for benching Manning.   Barkley was a better pick than a QB, but they could have traded back and fixed their line.  

That was their first mistake. 

No RB is a better pick than a Franchise QB. 
 

[aaron11]

darnold has not been that great, 34th ranked qb

[Trueman]

Just now, aaron11 said:

they would not be much better with darnold and no barkely, behind the same line they have now

 

darnold is nothing special while barkley is 

This year? Who cares? They're not a good football team with Darnold or Barkley. 

But having a franchise QB in place is WAY more important than having a franchise RB. It's not even close. 

I can't believe people feel otherwise. 

And saying Darnold is nothing special when he's the youngest QB to start in 30 years is kinda hilarious. He's having typical rookie struggles , but the talent and intangibles are beyond obvious. 

[aaron11]

Just now, Trueman said:

This year? Who cares? They're not a good football team with Darnold or Barkley. 

But having a franchise QB in place is WAY more important than having a franchise RB. It's not even close. 

I can't believe people feel otherwise. 

And saying Darnold is nothing special when he's the youngest QB to start in 30 years is kinda hilarious. He's having typical rookie struggles , but the talent and intangibles are beyond obvious. 

so get the qb next year.  darnold is meh, but there isnt a barkley in every draft 

[Trueman]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

so get the qb next year.  darnold is meh, but there isnt a barkley in every draft 

He's not "meh". This is absurd.

Do me a favour and remember you said this. 

[aaron11]

Just now, Trueman said:

He's not "meh". This is absurd.

Do me a favour and remember you said this. 

ok bud.  im fine with what i said, i have watched him.  he looked great against the colts but so does every one else

 

do me a favor and remember this when Barkley is winning an mvp in new york