Irsay furious about Luck situation, feels he was misled

[crazycolt1]

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 7:55 PM, CF4L said:

This makes him look worse you're the owner. If you were intentionally misled you probably should fire these guys. 

 

Now if they told you this is what they thought was going to happen and it didn't well that can't be controlled the human body isn't an exact science.

 

 

So explain to us how this makes Irsay look worse? That makes no sense.

[crazycolt1]

12 hours ago, ricker182 said:

Jim needs to step down.  

It's time to move on. 

  

I used to be a big fan, but his alternative facts have pushed me past liking him.

Jim is the owner. Jim will step down when he is good and ready. Not when you think it's time.

JMV is a pretty good and honest radio announcer who does have some pretty good sources he is close to. He is also honest enough to be negative when he needs to be so it can't be said he is a homer or kissing the Colts buttocks.

Just because you listen to rumors, media, fan opinion or anything else who are not privy to Irsay, then nothing can be fact.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Five pages of butt hurt whining.

I think some people need to meditate, perhaps take a deep breathe? Maybe rub a Buddha's bald head for luck just to relieve tension and get rid of their negative thoughts. Heck who knows

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think some people need to meditate, perhaps take a deep breathe? Maybe rub a Buddha's bald head for luck just to relieve tension and their negative thoughts. Heck who knows

Yeah, I know. Reading some of this stuff reads like the National Inquirer or TMZ. Making drama when there is none sells.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Yeah, I know. Reading some of this stuff reads like the National Inquirer or TMZ. Making drama when there is none sells.

Hey maybe Peyton will buy the team - ok just joking. I agree with you though, people are just all over Jim. In reality he has been one of the best owners of all-time if you look at his wins/losses and he does care about the fans.

[Nadine]

People, stop taking shots such as 'you're a homer' 'you're a sheep'

 

 

 

 

[Nadine]

The most curious thing to me as I read through this thread is the notion that all our problems came from removing Polian and that Irsay is a control freak.

 

The thing is, I don't remember anyone disagreeing with the decision to fire Polian.

 

Also, ALL GMs are control freaks and that includes Polian.  That's their job.  The buck stops with them so, it makes sense that they are control freaks.  It's their show.

 

That's not to say that Bill Polian didn't do a lot for this franchise, he certainly did.

 

The decision was made to go with a fresh start and everyone that I saw agreed with that decision.....until now.

 

Now people are all over the map

[RollerColt]

4 minutes ago, Nadine said:

People, stop taking shots such as 'you're a homer' 'you're a sheep'

I wish there were moderators like you on Facebook... 

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

I wish there were moderators like you on Facebook... 

Thanks,

 

I don't think many good discussions go on there.  Mostly venting

[RollerColt]

Just now, Nadine said:

Thanks,

 

I don't think many good discussions go on there.  Mostly venting

It's horrible to be honest. Not even venting... Just pure hatred from people, and New England fans saying this is all karma. 

 

[rockywoj]

Back to the topic of Luck, with it in the news, now, that Luck is advised to take three months off from throwing, my question is, with this being contrary to immediate exploratory surgery that Dr. David Chao was advocating this past week, are we to fear that the Colts are letting Luck go down the rest and rehab path that might actually draw his health into question for 2018?

 

Again, Dr. Chao said if you wait three months, if thing don’t heal up as hoped, then you have to go do the surgery in three months time, which then puts the beginning of 2018 in question.  Thus, he says, go in there and do the surgery NOW to get the answers you need and to get a jump on what other surgical interventions are needed.

 

I guess the other question about this is, is Dr. David Chao truly the “expert” on such matters that NFL Sirius XM Radio holds him out there as being?  In other words, if you put he and four of the other most respected doctors on such matters into a room, is Dr. Chao’s advice contrary to the majority of learned expert advice?

 

If I am Irsay, and this three month wait and see course is taken, but then additional surgery is then needed, I would be upset because then I’d be asking, if advice was given to do the exploratory surgery straight away, like Dr. Chao is now advising, then why the heck didn’t we do that at the time?

[horseshoecrabs]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:31 PM, RockThatBlue said:

This doesn't make any sense at all. Why in the world would someone be misleading Irsay?

Is Rob lowe in Irsays ear again

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, Nadine said:

People, stop taking shots such as 'you're a homer' 'you're a sheep'

 

 

This is a warning to those doing so... it is mentioned in the rules that questioning or making fun of another members 'fandom' is against the forum rules.  This could get you a warning/points if it persists...

 

Take heed to this warning above.

[Lawrence Owen]

4 hours ago, Nadine said:

The most curious thing to me as I read through this thread is the notion that all our problems came from removing Polian and that Irsay is a control freak.

 

The thing is, I don't remember anyone disagreeing with the decision to fire Polian.

 

Also, ALL GMs are control freaks and that includes Polian.  That's their job.  The buck stops with them so, it makes sense that they are control freaks.  It's their show.

 

That's not to say that Bill Polian didn't do a lot for this franchise, he certainly did.

 

The decision was made to go with a fresh start and everyone that I saw agreed with that decision.....until now.

 

Now people are all over the map

Um, why shouldn't Irsay be a control freak?  I mean, it is HIS billions of $$$ on the line.  He would be THE biggest 'homer'  of all.  His income actually DEPENDS on the Indianapolis Colts succeeding, winning, and doing well in general.  How many of us can say that?  If i owned a company, and I thought I needed to step in to make a few decisions to better it, you're d@#% well right i would.  And so would anyone else who had that kind of money on the line annually. (Agreeing with you)

 

Also, belittling someone else because of optomism or pessimism is wrong on a multitude of levels.  This is a discusion forum, not a bullying site.

[ColtsBlueFL]

4 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Back to the topic of Luck, with it in the news, now, that Luck is advised to take three months off from throwing, my question is, with this being contrary to immediate exploratory surgery that Dr. David Chao was advocating this past week, are we to fear that the Colts are letting Luck go down the rest and rehab path that might actually draw his health into question for 2018?

 

Again, Dr. Chao said if you wait three months, if thing don’t heal up as hoped, then you have to go do the surgery in three months time, which then puts the beginning of 2018 in question.  Thus, he says, go in there and do the surgery NOW to get the answers you need and to get a jump on what other surgical interventions are needed.

 

I guess the other question about this is, is Dr. David Chao truly the “expert” on such matters that NFL Sirius XM Radio holds him out there as being?  In other words, if you put he and four of the other most respected doctors on such matters into a room, is Dr. Chao’s advice contrary to the majority of learned expert advice?

 

If I am Irsay, and this three month wait and see course is taken, but then additional surgery is then needed, I would be upset because then I’d be asking, if advice was given to do the exploratory surgery straight away, like Dr. Chao is now advising, then why the heck didn’t we do that at the time?

 

I mentioned a while back once it was clear Luck was to go on IR that an arthroscope for a 'looksee' might be in the near future.  Especially if MRI are inconclusive and pain persists. My expectation was Luck would rest some, then start back on rehab to determine if he can resume a rehab throwing program.  If this isn't done and answer determined by sometime in December (by any means), then Dr Chao thoughts on a potential revision surgery later on in the next year may well jeopardize 2018 in some fashion too is valid... from missing camp to another delayed start during the season, or... well...

 

Dr. Chao is an orthopedic surgeon, and has (and still does) perform(ed) many operations.  He was the San Diego Chargers head team physician for 17 years, and operated on many (though not all) Chargers players personally.  While employed by the Chargers, he studied 'film' just like the players.  But his film study was Review of his players injuries from TV cameras.  He correlated what he saw on the TV replays to his actual findings- both on the field triage and in the surgical suite.  He has become 'the expert' at determining potential player injuries based upon video.  ( I believe he and his record indicate a >95% accuracy, just from seeing replays of an incident as cause of injury).

 

Sport medicine surgeons are a small fraternity, and I'm certain they all pretty much know of or about each other in some fashion; from acquaintance to friend.  And Once an injury is determined, the plan of action to correct is as well.  There are adjustments to some, depending upon 'grade' of injury, etc., but these are also standard and there is not really a maverick style 'winging it' when there is no need or indication to do so.  So, Yes, IMHO opinion Dr. Chao is an expert on football players injuries and accurate in how injuries fits in to the clubs mentality , desire, and time cycles; with his extensive NFL experience.

 

I want to note many/most team physicians do have their own private practice outside of team responsibilities, and do operate on even us 'normal' folks too, if you get an appointment as a patient of theirs.

[Lawrence Owen]

4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I mentioned a while back once it was clear Luck was to go on IR the an arthroscope might be in the near future.  My expectation was Luck would rest some, the start back on rehab to determine if he can resume a rehab throwing program.  If this isn't done and answer determined by sometime in December , then Dr Chao thoughts on a potential revision surgery later on in the year may well jeopardize 2018 in some fashion too... from missing camp to delayed start during the season, or... well...

 

Dr. Chao is an orthopedic surgeon, and has (and still does) performed many operations.  He was the San Diego Chargers head team physician for 17 years, and operated on many Chargers players personally.  He studied 'film' like the players.  But his film study was Review of his players injuries form TV cameras.  He coincided what he saw on the TV replays to his actual findings- both on the filed triage and in the surgical suite.  He has become 'the expert' at determining potential player injuries based upon video.  ( I believe he and his record indicate a 95% accuracy, just form seeing replays of cause of injury).

 

Sport medicine surgeons are a small fraternity, and i'm certain they all know each other in some fashion from acquaintance to friend.  And Once an injury is determined, the plan of action to correct is as well.  There are adjustments to some, depending upon 'grade' of injury, but these are also standard and there is not really a maverick style 'wining it' when there is no need or indication to do so.  So, Yes, IMHO opinion Dr. Chao is an expert on football players injuries and accurate in how injuries fits in to the clubs mentality , desire, and time cycles; with his extensive NFL experience.

 

I want to note many/most team physicians do have their own private practice outside of team responsibilities, and do operate on even us 'normal' folks too, if you get an appointment as a patient of theirs.

So what you're saying is :" Dudes pretty good"? 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

So what you're saying is :" Dudes pretty good"? 

 

To me, on a confidence scale of trust regarding medical issues-

 

Dr. Chao  -  95%

Jim Irsay  -  5%

 

Choose the source of your info...

 

 

[CF4L]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

So explain to us how this makes Irsay look worse? That makes no sense.

 

 

You're the owner you should have a pulse of the team. You don't need to be a control freak/micromanager to know what's going on with your QB.

 

If any owner is misled by someone that person is usually fired because the buck stops with them. The fact these doctors are probably still employed right now means he's not as misled as he wants the public to think he was just trying to make himself look like he had no clue. 

 

He probably doesn't but not for the reasons he wants us to think he's clueless.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, CF4L said:

 

 

You're the owner you should have a pulse of the team. You don't need to be a control freak/micromanager to know what's going on with your QB.

 

If any owner is misled by someone that person is usually fired because the buck stops with them. The fact these doctors are probably still employed right now means he's not as misled as he wants the public to think he was just trying to make himself look like he had no clue. 

 

He probably doesn't but not for the reasons he wants us to think he's clueless.

 

 

You are just looking for a reason to point a finger at Irsay. So it don't matter what anyone else has to say.

[Nadine]

2 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Um, why shouldn't Irsay be a control freak?  I mean, it is HIS billions of $$$ on the line.  He would be THE biggest 'homer'  of all.  His income actually DEPENDS on the Indianapolis Colts succeeding, winning, and doing well in general.  How many of us can say that?  If i owned a company, and I thought I needed to step in to make a few decisions to better it, you're d@#% well right i would.  And so would anyone else who had that kind of money on the line annually. (Agreeing with you)

 

Also, belittling someone else because of optomism or pessimism is wrong on a multitude of levels.  This is a discusion forum, not a bullying site.

I hear you.  I just object to the notion that Irsay is micromanaging.  He hires people to do the managing and expects them to deal with all things football. He knows he's not a gm.

 

Polian was a super control freak imo and it worked for him.  The problem was, all those years with Manning and just one superbowl.  We were doing something wrong.......so, fresh start.

 

I can't even think about the dollars down the drain.  It must have his attention.

 

optimists and pessimists are always at war here.  I lean toward optimism because......you just live longer that way

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

{Snipo... good stuff}   I lean toward optimism because......you just live longer that way

 

^^^ This  ^^^  

[rockywoj]

20 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I mentioned a while back once it was clear Luck was to go on IR that an arthroscope for a 'looksee' might be in the near future.  Especially if MRI are inconclusive and pain persists. My expectation was Luck would rest some, then start back on rehab to determine if he can resume a rehab throwing program.  If this isn't done and answer determined by sometime in December (by any means), then Dr Chao thoughts on a potential revision surgery later on in the next year may well jeopardize 2018 in some fashion too is valid... from missing camp to another delayed start during the season, or... well...

 

Dr. Chao is an orthopedic surgeon, and has (and still does) perform(ed) many operations.  He was the San Diego Chargers head team physician for 17 years, and operated on many (though not all) Chargers players personally.  While employed by the Chargers, he studied 'film' just like the players.  But his film study was Review of his players injuries from TV cameras.  He correlated what he saw on the TV replays to his actual findings- both on the field triage and in the surgical suite.  He has become 'the expert' at determining potential player injuries based upon video.  ( I believe he and his record indicate a >95% accuracy, just from seeing replays of an incident as cause of injury).

 

Sport medicine surgeons are a small fraternity, and I'm certain they all pretty much know of or about each other in some fashion; from acquaintance to friend.  And Once an injury is determined, the plan of action to correct is as well.  There are adjustments to some, depending upon 'grade' of injury, etc., but these are also standard and there is not really a maverick style 'winging it' when there is no need or indication to do so.  So, Yes, IMHO opinion Dr. Chao is an expert on football players injuries and accurate in how injuries fits in to the clubs mentality , desire, and time cycles; with his extensive NFL experience.

 

I want to note many/most team physicians do have their own private practice outside of team responsibilities, and do operate on even us 'normal' folks too, if you get an appointment as a patient of theirs.

Well, accepting Dr. Chao as an expert, then I wonder why the Colts are not immediately performing the follow-up surgery as Dr. Chao was stressing as being what he advises.   

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Well, accepting Dr. Chao as an expert, then, I wonder why the Colts are not immediately performing the follow-up surgery as Dr. Chao was stressing as being what he advises.   

 

Colts have been deliberate in all aspects of this.  Maybe Dr. Andrews as consultant and the PT in Birmingham (cant remember name off hand) stress a short term therapy/rehab program to gather more info first.  It's not a sprint to get A.L. under the knife again, but should be considered in the near term IMHO, if other measures aren't producing positive results. I'm sure Dr. Safran has input too, before he is asked to go back in.  So many things, who knows? 

 

Dr. Chao is an expert, but he doesn't have inside info on Luck. If he did, he could not comment on the situation anymore.  He does have inside knowledge (yes, it is different) that brings a reasonable perspective.  I'll have to read his article and then have a better perspective to comment from then.

[2006Coltsbestever]

26 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think it is you who is clueless. Irsay has always been fan friendly sometimes to the point of fault. Not for one second do I believe he wants his fan base to think he is clueless.

She hates Irsay, don't even debate with her about Irsay  I know

[Nadine]

18 hours ago, CF4L said:

The fact these doctors are probably still employed right now means he's not as misled as he wants the public to think he was just trying to make himself look like he had no clue. 

 

He probably doesn't but not for the reasons he wants us to think he's clueless.

 

 

Too much of a leap to say that Irsay is putting this out there as a way to control public perception about him.

 

All this talk that Irsay is 'privately furious and feels he was mislead' is not based on anything that he put out there.  It's based on........well, nothing, there's no source.

 

But yet you are arguing that because the doctors are still there.....MEANS he's not as 'misled as he wants the public to think he was'

 

You cannot say that because, it's not based on any evidence that he wants the public to believe he's clueless.

 

Circular reasoning

[shakedownstreet]

Wow this thread is still going on? 

[lollygagger8]

On 11/3/2017 at 5:08 PM, WoolMagnet said:

He was saying that because that is what he was being told by doctors, trainers,etc.

last i checked , Irsay didnt have an MD behind his name.

why is this so difficult to understand.

if a service manager tells the owner all the trucks have been serviced, the owner doesnt then rip apart the engines to see for himself.(even if he had the expertise to do so)

 

My bad, I wasn't aware that you were present for all the Irsay/Doctor conversations. 

[TheMarine]

On 11/3/2017 at 9:25 AM, indy1888 said:

 

Well, JMV has heard the same info so....

 

He said on his morning facebook live post today that he was told Irsay is "irate" and that he didn't even know IR was going to happen until yesterday.  I find that part hard to believe but Irsay has to act surprised i guess.

 

FWIW, JMV also stated later that day that his source WAS this guy and someone near the organization, but not verified by anyone actually in the building

[WoolMagnet]

5 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

My bad, I wasn't aware that you were present for all the Irsay/Doctor conversations. 

You are too cool for school.

i bet your mommy is proud.

[lollygagger8]

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

You are too cool for school.

i bet your mommy is proud.

 

Thanks buddy 

[deedub75]

9 hours ago, Nadine said:

 

Too much of a leap to say that Irsay is putting this out there as a way to control public perception about him.

 

All this talk that Irsay is 'privately furious and feels he was mislead' is not based on anything that he put out there.  It's based on........well, nothing, there's no source.

 

But yet you are arguing that because the doctors are still there.....MEANS he's not as 'misled as he wants the public to think he was'

 

You cannot say that because, it's not based on any evidence that he wants the public to believe he's clueless.

 

Circular reasoning

 

JMV said his sources have told that the rumors about Irsay being furious and feeling misled are all true. 

[Nadine]

44 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

JMV said his sources have told that the rumors about Irsay being furious and feeling misled are all true. 

What else would he say about his 'sources'?

They're all lying?

[deedub75]

39 minutes ago, Nadine said:

What else would he say about his 'sources'?

They're all lying?

 

He asked his sources about it and they confirmed it to him. He’s been spot on with the information he gives. 

[Nadine]

On 11/4/2017 at 9:55 PM, GoColts8818 said:

Those that cover the Colts locally, outside of JMV, are saying they haven’t heard this or it’s not true.  

 

9 hours ago, TheMarine said:

 

FWIW, JMV also stated later that day that his source WAS this guy and someone near the organization, but not verified by anyone actually in the building

 

1 hour ago, deedub75 said:

 

JMV said his sources have told that the rumors about Irsay being furious and feeling misled are all true. 

 

See above.

 

JMV source is not in the building and it's not confirmed by anyone in the building.  And I would think you would have to be in the building to see Jim Irsay so upset...unless he got upset somewhere else where these sources saw it....or someone else saw it and told JMV about it.  Make that multiple people because JMV uses plural when referring to them.

 

The 'story' that 'irsay is privately furious' is so secretly sourced that most people don't know anything about it.

 

Even if it were, how would his private fury be evidence that he's trying to give the public perception that he didn't know?

 

It's circular reasoning even if JMV sources are super secret spies and Jim Irsay is a master manipulator of public opinion

 

 

[BR-549]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

 

 

See above.

 

JMV source is not in the building and it's not confirmed by anyone in the building.  And I would think you would have to be in the building to see Jim Irsay so upset...unless he got upset somewhere else where these sources saw it....or someone else saw it and told JMV about it.  Make that multiple people because JMV uses plural when referring to them.

 

The 'story' that 'irsay is privately furious' is so secretly sourced that most people don't know anything about it.

 

Even if it were, how would his private fury be evidence that he's trying to give the public perception that he didn't know?

 

It's circular reasoning even if JMV sources are super secret spies and Jim Irsay is a master manipulator of public opinion

 

 

 

^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^

seems pretty reasonable to me

 

I like JMV and he does get a lot of things right.  But I don't believe him to be omnipotent...

[GoColts8818]

4 hours ago, Nadine said:

 

 

 

See above.

 

JMV source is not in the building and it's not confirmed by anyone in the building.  And I would think you would have to be in the building to see Jim Irsay so upset...unless he got upset somewhere else where these sources saw it....or someone else saw it and told JMV about it.  Make that multiple people because JMV uses plural when referring to them.

 

The 'story' that 'irsay is privately furious' is so secretly sourced that most people don't know anything about it.

 

Even if it were, how would his private fury be evidence that he's trying to give the public perception that he didn't know?

 

It's circular reasoning even if JMV sources are super secret spies and Jim Irsay is a master manipulator of public opinion

 

 

I wasn’t saying if JMV was right or wrong or anything about his sources I was just saying other members of the media weren’t saying what apperently JMV had said on his show.

 

With that said, and I have no clue if this is JMV’s source or not but his former producer, Matt Taylor, now works for the Colts.  It’s not unreasonable to think that those two talk.  With that said there is nothing to suggest that Matt would A know or B be JMV’s source.

 

Its important to remember that members of the local media all have sources.  Most of the rest of the local media has been contradicting what JMV has said on this based on their sources but yet those sources aren’t being questioned.  

 

I’ll say I have no idea what’s going on on this front but I do think members of the local media know more than the Colts probably wish they did when it comes to things like this.  That’s not saying JMV is right or wrong because I don’t know.

[Nadine]

5 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I wasn’t saying if JMV was right or wrong or anything about his sources I was just saying other members of the media weren’t saying what apperently JMV had said on his show.

 

With that said, and I have no clue if this is JMV’s source or not but his former producer, Matt Taylor, now works for the Colts.  It’s not unreasonable to think that those two talk.  With that said there is nothing to suggest that Matt would A know or B be JMV’s source.

 

Its important to remember that members of the local media all have sources.  Most of the rest of the local media has been contradicting what JMV has said on this based on their sources but yet those sources aren’t being questioned.  

 

I’ll say I have no idea what’s going on on this front but I do think members of the local media know more than the Colts probably wish they did when it comes to things like this.  That’s not saying JMV is right or wrong because I don’t know.

 

I understand that nobody really knows and it's possible that somebody knows.  But, I don't see Irsay venting his private frustration in front of a radio staff. Even if he did, I really sincerely doubt that any of them would turn around and share that info because it would be pretty obvious who did it.

 

Anyway, none of that matters because what I was responding to was the idea that Irsay is somehow leaking his own private frustration in order to court public opinion.

[GoColts8818]

5 hours ago, Nadine said:

 

I understand that nobody really knows and it's possible that somebody knows.  But, I don't see Irsay venting his private frustration in front of a radio staff. Even if he did, I really sincerely doubt that any of them would turn around and share that info because it would be pretty obvious who did it.

 

Anyway, none of that matters because what I was responding to was the idea that Irsay is somehow leaking his own private frustration in order to court public opinion.

Right I don’t think he would do it on purpose.  If he wanted to do that he would either just say if or do it on Twitter.  That’s his style and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

as far as people knowing stuff in the building I agree I doubt he told the radio staff but all buildings have people who talk.  It could be the radio guys heard it from someone else.  Heck I don’t even know if Matt Taylor is JMV source so it could have come from someone else, it might even be a friend of a friend who works for the Colts.  That creates a big game of telephone so you have to take it with a grain of salt so like you said you just never know.

 

i will say all the local media have sources they trust when it comes to the Colts so I do think information leaks out somehow.  I agree I don’t think Irsay does that on purpose.  It just happens.  JMV’s sources do tend to be right more that others but he’s not fool proof either.

 

i’ll say reading this combined with what Dungy said Irsay told him about it being in Andrews head and I think Irsay is frustrated because he doesn’t think it’s physical anymore and all mental.  Thad’s just my opinion though.