Houstons owner racist comments??

[HOZER]

10 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Agree. All that's needed here is an apology for choice of words.

 

 

Already happened.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/27/16559952/bob-mcnair-houston-texans-nfl-owners-meeting-protests

[dgambill]

11 minutes ago, Swan Ronson said:

He didn't say inmates running the asylum, which is a common phrase.

 

He said inmates running the prison. A subtle difference, but an important and sensitive one given the current climate and what the players are protesting.

 

 

Good point...very subtle yet very important as well...although I could see where both could be viewed as insensitive given the current workplace environment. That said my father worked as a guard in a prison for several years later on in his life and it was a common phrase around my house...but even though I've heard it a lot I don't think this was the right forum for this comment.

[BOTT]

21 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

I don't know if it's racist but, it certainly lowers the level of discourse as does going on to take this as an example of how this is fake outrage.

 

Sure, I think the press runs with it but, bottom line, he shouldn't have said it and the repercussions are deserved. 

 

it makes me think of the personal shots that people post on here and then defend themselves as having only said what is true and people should stop being so sensitive. These days, some people say the rudest things and then wrap themselves in self righteousness because they are 'telling it like it is'

 

We all need to get along.  Everyone needs to make an effort. Making ignorant, disrespectful, dismissive comments about someone else's beliefs is part of the problem, NOT the solution.

 

 

So the resprecussions of being labeled a racist are deserved because an old man used a commonly used phrase.  I'm sure he regrets not looking around the room, to gauge each individual's past, and censoring himself of anything that might offend anyone. Unfortunately, you and this kind of thinking is part of the problem.

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Unless you don't want to undermine yourself with that group of people moving forward. Sometimes an apology after the fact doesn't make everything just instantly go away. People remember and possibly it might take more than an apology to fix the situation depending on how big you step in it. Do you really want to the reprocussions of such a thing for being lazy/casual with your speech. If you know there is a chance to offend others you then have to weight the consequences of what your going to say if its worth it...sometimes you might still go ahead and say it if its a core principal thing or if the benefits outweigh the negatives...other times stopping and thinking before blabbing might just save you a lot of headache and also go a long way with improving relations with someone. If you know something might offend and you say it anways....it better be worth it..you may never get the support of those people again...however knowing something might offend and you purposely go the other direction to show how much you respect them to avoid it...might earn you a lot of respect...especially in the work place.

Perhaps, but an apology when no offense was really intended is a first step.

I guess that is unless he really meant what he said. Even then, a less insulting choice of words would have been better.

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

So the resprecussions of being labeled a racist are deserved because an old man used a commonly used phrase.  I'm sure he regrets not looking around the room, to gauge each individual's past, and censoring himself of anything that might offend anyone. Unfortunately, you and this kind of thinking is part of the problem.

 

I stated that I didn't know that it was racist.

 

Since your reply is based on something I didn't say, it is the kind of thinking that is 'part of the problem'

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Perhaps, but an apology when no offense was really intended is a first step.

I guess that is unless he really meant what he said. Even then, a less insulting choice of words would have been better.

All I meant was an apology doesn't just make it all better....he very likely permanently damaged his standing in front of those and many more players...something that won't be easy to fix in their eyes....so just saying an apology and it all goes away I thought was a bit naïve. It doesn't really work that way...even though of course an apology should be in order and was given.

[BOTT]

16 minutes ago, Swan Ronson said:

He didn't say inmates running the asylum, which is a common phrase.

 

He said inmates running the prison. A subtle difference, but an important and sensitive one given the current climate and what the players are protesting.

 

 

The guy is 80 yrs old.....they tend to get things mixed up. My buddies dad called Taken 2 with Liam Neeson "Tekken 2 with Leslie Nielsen".  That would be a very different movie.

[Nadine]

8 minutes ago, GOZER said:

Already happened.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/27/16559952/bob-mcnair-houston-texans-nfl-owners-meeting-protests

That's good.

These guys need to work together. 

Thanks for the link

[BOTT]

3 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

I stated that I didn't know that it was racist.

 

Since your reply is based on something I didn't say, it is the kind of thinking that is 'part of the problem'

You stated the repercussions are deserved. Part of the repercussions are his being labeled a racist by some.....and you endorsed it.  Follow along.

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

All I meant was an apology doesn't just make it all better....he very likely permanently damaged his standing in front of those and many more players...something that won't be easy to fix in their eyes....so just saying an apology and it all goes away I thought was a bit naïve. It doesn't really work that way...even though of course an apology should be in order and was given.

I see what you're saying.

You're right

[Cynjin]

4 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

I stated that I didn't know that it was racist.

 

Since your reply is based on something I didn't say, it is the kind of thinking that is 'part of the problem'

 

 No, you did not say that he was a racist. However, you did say that the repercussions or deserved, and one of the repercussions is that he is being labeled a racist. 

[Nadine]

Just now, BOTT said:

You stated the repercussions are deserved. Part of the repercussions are his being labeled a racist by some.....and you endorsed it.  Follow along.

If twisting my words to fit your narrative is something you feel a need to do.........THAT is part of the problem

Follow along

[Swan Ronson]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

The guy is 80 yrs old.....they tend to get things mixed up. My buddies dad called Taken 2 with Liam Neeson "Tekken 2 with Leslie Nielsen".  That would be a very different movie.

The guy is running a multi billion dollar company, I doubt his mind is all that addled.

 

Anyway, I don't really wish to get into the weeds on this. He said something that at best can be described as insensitive and at worst points to what his view of the players is.

 

No huge need for outrage and counter outrage.

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

 No, you did not say that he was a racist. However, you did say that the repercussions or deserved, and one of the repercussions is that he is being labeled a racist. 

 

He deserves blow back? How's that?

 

I stated that I didn't know if it was racist and stated that I could see that the media was running with it.

 

I didn't call him a racist or say he deserved to be called a racist.  But he certainly deserves blow back for what he said.

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

If twisting my words to fit your narrative is something you feel a need to do.........THAT is part of the problem

Follow along

Did you or did you not say "the repercussions are deserved"?  I didn't twist anything 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, BOTT said:

The guy is 80 yrs old.....they tend to get things mixed up. My buddies dad called Taken 2 with Liam Neeson "Tekken 2 with Leslie Nielsen".  That would be a very different movie.

Yep lol...that's funny....but one is a lingual mistake and the other just might be a Freudian slip lol....who knows...either way...going down that path was probably not the brightest for Mr. Mcnair....he kinda stepped in it. I'm not here to condemn the man but I do think the comment was a view into how he sees his employees..even if not in the literal sense.

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, Swan Ronson said:

The guy is running a multi billion dollar company, I doubt his mind is all that addled.

 

Anyway, I don't really wish to get into the weeds on this. He said something that at best can be described as insensitive and at worst points to what his view of the players is.

 

No huge need for outrage and counter outrage.

Characterizing someone who is 80 as somehow less that others is inaccurate. I would think that McNair would be offended with that assessment.

 

I know people in their 90s who are sharper than most younger people.

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

Did you or did you not say "the repercussions are deserved"?  I didn't twist anything 

 

Stop trying to make what I said fit your narrative. I've answered this

[BOTT]

3 minutes ago, Swan Ronson said:

The guy is running a multi billion dollar company, I doubt his mind is all that addled.

 

Anyway, I don't really wish to get into the weeds on this. He said something that at best can be described as insensitive and at worst points to what his view of the players is.

 

No huge need for outrage and counter outrage.

You don't have be an old loon to mix up word/metaphors, etc... older people just tend to do it.

 

 

[Superman]

I don't think it's a racist phrase, and IMO, that's not the point.

 

To me, the actual point is that McNair is looking to suppress the viewpoint, thoughts and wants of the players that make up the league. It doesn't have to be racist to be incredibly condescending, and completely out of touch.

[JColts72]

Leave Bob alone. All the SJW and PC police will look for anything in this day and age for racist overtones.

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Did you or did you not say "the repercussions are deserved"?  I didn't twist anything 

I don't want to speak for Nadine as she can very capably speak for herself but I believe she was saying the repercussions of people thinking what he said was insensitive and people being offended by it. So if someone murdered him and his family do you think Nadine was saying ALL repercussions would be deserved. I'm thinking she is talking about the blow back he is getting which the greatest majority saying it was offensive. Of course there are going to be outliers that he is racist or take things too far...but the mainstream sentiment is that it was offensive. What she is saying your trying to twist the narrative to such an extreme. She has said all along it was a very poor choice of words and that his words where inflammatory in the current environment it was being spoken in.

[Nadine]

5 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Leave Bob alone. All the SJW and PC police will look for anything in this day and age for racist overtones.

 

That's an excuse that doesn't fly. Even Bob apologized.

 

 

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

I don't think it's a racist phrase, and IMO, that's not the point.

 

To me, the actual point is that McNair is looking to suppress the viewpoint, thoughts and wants of the players that make up the league. It doesn't have to be racist to be incredibly condescending, and completely out of touch.

Right on! Perfectly stated. And this comes from a person that is upset at the current players choice of protest....but I believe the league/owners can have a dialogue and come to a satisfactory solution that would make them and many many fans happy (standing during the anthem) and the players happy (bringing attention to social/economical issues they value in their communities)....but the rhetoric wasn't at all helpful at all in moving anything forward in a positive manner on either side.

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Leave Bob alone. All the SJW and PC police will look for anything in this day and age for racist overtones.

 

No, that's not at all what this is about.

 

This is minority athletes who are standing up for what they believe is injustice and oppression in the legal/justice system. And this person, in a position of authority, chose to use a phrase that feeds into the underlying feelings of being discriminated against, suppressed, and unheard. Players are talking about bringing awareness to a perceived inequality, and his response is 'we have to keep them in line and make sure they do what we tell them to do.' 

 

It's easy to dismiss the overall concerns by painting the issue(s) as black and white -- what Bob McNair said wasn't racist, therefore there was nothing wrong with it -- but that distorts the issue and misses the point. Which is a job well done, because people would rather make this discussion be about anything other than injustice and oppression.

[JColts72]

5 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

That's an excuse that doesn't fly. Even Bob apologized.

 

 

Instead of saying inmates, maybe the patients are running the asylum?

[Buck Showalter]

The fact that some people can not understand the importance of context baffles me...

 

While I feel that every poor choice of words or off color comment doesn't need to be overly demonized, the lengths some go to in defense of insensitive comments is also saddening...

 

 

 

[Nadine]

3 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Instead of saying inmates, maybe the patients are running the asylum?

I think if he wanted to assert his power over the players in a public statement then he should have just said, it's the owners decision to make

[aaron11]

stupid comment, but ill give him the benefit of the doubt

 

 

[Cynjin]

30 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

He deserves blow back? How's that?

 

I stated that I didn't know if it was racist and stated that I could see that the media was running with it.

 

I didn't call him a racist or say he deserved to be called a racist.  But he certainly deserves blow back for what he said.

 

I said you didn’t call him a racist.  The blowback he has received is completely out of proportion to what he said, imo.

[crazycolt1]

So I wonder how many players will refuse to sign with his team and refuse a paycheck if they are all that oppressed?

[Nadine]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

I said you didn’t call him a racist.  The blowback he has received is completely out of proportion to what he said, imo.

I think it's not out of proportion to the people who care deeply about his cause.

 

That's the disconnect.

 

One side sees no issue.  The other side does.

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So I wonder how many players will refuse to sign with his team and refuse a paycheck if they are all that oppressed?

Is that their best option?

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So I wonder how many players will refuse to sign with his team and refuse a paycheck if they are all that oppressed?

 

Which just makes the point further. The idea is 'if you want to play in our league, you'll do what we say, and you should feel grateful that we give you the chance to do so.' The slavemaster connotations are obvious, and this is a sentiment that has been expressed by lots of professional owners in recent years.

[Cynjin]

27 minutes ago, Superman said:

I don't think it's a racist phrase, and IMO, that's not the point.

 

To me, the actual point is that McNair is looking to suppress the viewpoint, thoughts and wants of the players that make up the league. It doesn't have to be racist to be incredibly condescending, and completely out of touch.

 

And he gets to do that, because he’s the boss.  The owner of a company gets to say if he wants you to protest on the clock.  If he doesn’t, then you don’t do or get another job.  If my boss doesn’t want me to make political statements on the job, which he doesn’t, then I won’t do it.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Is that their best option?

 

The idea is that it's their only option, so they should just shut up and fall in line.

 

When we're talking about inequality based partly on race, that's a stupid sentiment to express.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Which just makes the point further. The idea is 'if you want to play in our league, you'll do what we say, and you should feel grateful that we give you the chance to do so.' The slavemaster connotations are obvious, and this is a sentiment that has been expressed by lots of professional owners in recent years.

I understand that but my point is if these players are all that serious how far would they go to make their issues a main issue?  I have no clue if the owner meant any harm and maybe just put is foot in his mouth. If that is the case we all have been guilty of that a couple of times.

[Superman]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

And he gets to do that, because he’s the boss.  The owner of a company gets to say if he wants you to protest on the clock.  If he doesn’t, then you don’t do or get another job.  If my boss doesn’t want me to make political statements on the job, which he doesn’t, then I won’t do it.

 

Kind of, but not really. If the owner of a company institutes a policy stating no one can speak out about a cause they care about, that policy needs to apply equally to everyone, across the board. 

[dgambill]

7 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Leave Bob alone. All the SJW and PC police will look for anything in this day and age for racist overtones.

I think what we have all learned the past many months is that being quiet is not the answer to anything. I'm not captain PC in the least way...but what we've seen in Hollywood, with Cam Newton, with Donald Sterling, with Mr. Mcnair and so many other things is that we need to call it out when we see it.....if we just let this stuff go unchecked then that's how things grow and fester. Is everything racist or sexist or offensive...of course not...but that shouldn't mean we ignore what we are seeing and feeling when this stuff happens. There can be good from calling out what we see and feel is offensive. There can be little change if we all just accept the status quo.

[Cynjin]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Kind of, but not really. If the owner of a company institutes a policy stating no one can speak out about a cause they care about, that policy needs to apply equally to everyone, across the board. 

 

It would apply to everyone in his company.  Everyone but the owner, that’s one of the perks of being the owner.