Houstons owner racist comments??

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

What if the player refused to wear the American flag on his uniform if it was a part of the designed uniform? Could employees refuse to wear the set uniform? I don't know what patriotism has to do with an owner mandated rule of employment...like if a private school mandated that teacher state the pledge of allegiance before class every day as a term of employment do they not have the right to enforce it? No one is making you do it...you enter into that agreement willingly...I'm this case the NFL didn't foresee this not have it as part of their code of conduct...thus I don't think they can force the players...and yes the NBA has it and thus their players must stand. People are forced to do things they disagree with all the time in complying with companies terms of smployemnt...I see this no different. Sure you can disobey but the employer has right to take disciplinary action.

 

To the bolded, no, I don't believe any employer can legally mandate an act of patriotism as a condition of employment. 

 

The NBA does have a rule on this, but I don't think that rule would hold up under legal challenge.

[Cynjin]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm pretty sure whether or not the players are 'required' to stand during the national anthem is not a collectively bargained detail, either in the NBA or NFL. What's collectively bargained is the league's authority to impose rules on the players, but that collectively bargained authority does not supersede the rights of the players. I'm of the opinion that the NBA's rule requiring players to stand is a violation of the players' rights, but that's my interpretation of the right a person has to refrain from an act of patriotism.

 

Well the NBA players agree to abide by the rules when they collectively bargain with the league and it does say in their rule book that the players must stand for the National Anthem.  If the players didn't like it then they could have objected to the rule and tried to get the rule removed during negotiations.  I am not sure how the players rights are being violated since they agreed to it.

[Nadine]

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

 Why is it offensive?    I've heard that at my job on one form or another many times in my career.   I'm a union railroad worker.   Never once was I offended

Has anything ever offended you?

[Superman]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

Well the NBA players agree to abide by the rules when they collectively bargain with the league and it does say in their rule book that the players must stand for the National Anthem.  If the players didn't like it then they could have objected to the rule and tried to get the rule removed during negotiations.  I am not sure how the players rights are being violated since they agreed to it.

 

Collectively agreed to the league's authority. They didn't collectively agree to sign away protected rights. If the NBA instituted a rule that was inherently racist or oppressive to a specific racial group, I don't think that rule would be legal. 

[NFLfan]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Wow!! That's funny. Yep...words are powerful...and sometimes consequences...and in this cause perhaps unintended consequences. I do think it's a window to his true feelings. I do think he feels superior to his employees and doesn't appreciate what they have gone through and what they feel is important..and that's not a boss I want to work for.

 

I was a customer, not an employee. I was bringing a pet for a checkup. I used that expression to say that while there, I would have the vet's assistant trim the cat's nails in addition to having the cat get its shots, etc.  

[Colts_Fan12]

15 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

 Why is it offensive?    I've heard that at my job on one form or another many times in my career.   I'm a union railroad worker.   Never once was I offended

It's not offensive at all it literally has nothing to do with what type of people the players are or anything it's a damn old saying they are just a bunch of whiney babies that's the only explanation this country is becoming a sad place 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The NBA has done similar things with dress code before and after games.   When things on or off the field start affecting the bottom line,   the owners get nervous

 

There's a difference between instituting a dress code and mandating an act of patriotism. Public schools can require children to wear uniforms, they cannot require that children recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

[Jules]

Are we still discussing police brutality or has this crossed over to other branches of discussion now NFL players? 

[Nadine]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

It's not offensive at all it literally has nothing to do with what type of people the players are or anything it's a damn old saying they are just a bunch of whiney babies that's the only explanation this country is becoming a sad place 

If someone called you a whiney baby that was ruining the country..........what would you think feel or say?

[NFLfan]

8 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Has anything ever offended you?

 

Good question for many who say people are too sensitive. As we know, many are offended by players kneeling.

[Cynjin]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Collectively agreed to the league's authority. They didn't collectively agree to sign away protected rights. If the NBA instituted a rule that was inherently racist or oppressive to a specific racial group, I don't think that rule would be legal. 

 

That's just it, it is not a protected right when it comes to a non government entity.  A private employer has a set of rules for employment, it doesn't matter if you or I agree with them.  The employees of ESPN are a good example.  Did they have a right to say what they did, absolutely.  Did ESPN have the right to suspend or fire them for what they said, absolutely.

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, Nadine said:

If someone called you a whiney baby that was ruining the country..........what would you think feel or say?

Then grow the hell up I'm not being an * crying about pointless things if them is was an actual problem then yeah by all mean protest and complain what the poor old guy said isn't rude I any way what so ever it's a saying used basically saying they can't let the workers run their business

 

I wouldn't care cause I'm an adult with regular thick skin I'm not offended by every old saying statue or piece of history 

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Has anything ever offended you?

Not really.     It would take someone who knows me and my family saying something about me as a husband or father to offend me.  People have grown very thin skinned over the years.    There is nothing a person who doesn't  know me can say to offened me. 

 

Now,   I'm a white guy.   I have never spent a day in the shoes of a minority.   I don't pretend to know what that's like.   But a lot of other issues that have nothing to do with race or gender get so blown out of proportion is ridiculous

[Jules]

What Kaepernick started and what his initial protest was about was police brutality against minorities, in particular African Americans.

 

And I get that, I am down with a discussion on this and more awareness and it being fixed in communities.

 

Now it's become too branched out and lost it's initial meaning. It's anti Trump or Anti Owner or anti whatever. 

 

IMO if you want to successfully protest something and bring awareness to it AND FIX IT, you have to stick to the topic and keep it smaller.

 

It's all becoming too disorganized now to the point that the initial serious topic is now being lost in the shuffle IMO.

[DougDew]

More crybullying.

 

This isn't about being offended.

 

 Its about claiming to be offended as a tactic to get somebody else to do something that enhances your situation....or your friends' situations...or your cause.

 

It almost always involves the accused ceding some power to the "victim."

 

Its just a cheap tactic.  Call it out for what it is.  Let em whine.

[Nadine]

5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Then grow the hell up I'm not being an * crying about pointless things if them is was an actual problem then yeah by all mean protest and complain what the poor old guy said isn't rude I any way what so ever it's a saying used basically saying they can't let the workers run their business

 

I wouldn't care cause I'm an adult with regular thick skin I'm not offended by every old saying statue or piece of history 

you lost me

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You probably don't work in an exclusive industry the way professional athletes do, where there is a limited amount of opportunity for you to do what you've devoted your life to and be paid at the top of your profession. You also probably aren't restricted by a collective bargaining agreement that doesn't allow you to choose which company you'll work for, and you're probably not contractually obligated to whatever company you choose for four-plus years at the beginning of your career.

 

And again, this idea that 'if you don't like it, you can leave' should just dismiss any issues that anyone has with equality and employees' rights is hard to stomach. No one should have to tolerate inappropriate behavior or comments, or be discriminated against or have their rights violated just because they get to make a lot of money playing football, nor should they be silenced or suppressed because they are meant to be entertainment.

I totally agree with you up until the point you say you get to the point they should not be limited in the freedom of speech rights etc. If that was the case they should have freedom to not have any of their rights limited...they should be able to wear what they want on the sidelines say whatever they want and never apologize do whatever dance they want etc. There is nothing wrong with setting standards and conditions of employment in my opinion. The league discriminates by paying some players are than others and letting some players speak at the podium and not everyone. Fact is many of us have to check religious and political and social issues and beliefs at the door to be employed and I don't see the NFL being any different. Nobody is saying they can't say or believe what they want...but for one day a week they are a special envoy/representative of the organization so they should be expected to represent the values of the organization..standing for the anthem or not bad mouthing their own team whatever that is.

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Wow!! That's funny. Yep...words are powerful...and sometimes consequences...and in this cause perhaps unintended consequences. I do think it's a window to his true feelings. I do think he feels superior to his employees and doesn't appreciate what they have gone through and what they feel is important..and that's not a boss I want to work for.

You just described pretty much every CEO on the planet

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

This isn't about being offended.

 

It is

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, Jules said:

Are we still discussing police brutality or has this crossed over to other branches of discussion now NFL players? 

 

Anything but police brutality, which is too bad.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Nadine said:

you lost me

They are crying about this old saying some old guy said it's not mean in any way it's been around for years and years and I'm saying I wouldn't care if someone said that about me cause I'm not a big baby that is offended by history 

[jvan1973]

Never say  " don't throw the baby out with the bath water" in a maternity ward

[Nadine]

4 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

Now it's become too branched out and lost it's initial meaning

 

It's all about discrediting people who say something that others don't want to hear.  Don't say it now, don't say it there, don't say it that way

 

And don't be offended by what I say because you're a cry baby who is ruining the country

 

It's about the need to listen to each other and stop dismissing each other

 

Until people start listening to each other and working together, this will continue to take many many forms.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

That's just it, it is not a protected right when it comes to a non government entity.  A private employer has a set of rules for employment, it doesn't matter if you or I agree with them.  The employees of ESPN are a good example.  Did they have a right to say what they did, absolutely.  Did ESPN have the right to suspend or fire them for what they said, absolutely.

 

Everyone has a right to decline participation in an act of patriotism, or a religious observance, etc. If you make that act a condition of someone's employment, it's a violation of their rights.

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

They are crying about this old saying some old guy said it's not mean in any way it's been around for years and years and I'm saying I wouldn't care if someone said that about me cause I'm not a big baby that is offended by history 

 

OK

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, Nadine said:

 

It's all about discrediting people who say something that others don't want to hear.  Don't say it now, don't say it there, don't say it that way

 

And don't be offended by what I say because you're a cry baby who is ruining the country

 

It's about the need to listen to each other and stop dismissing each other

 

Until people start listening to each other and working together, this will continue to take many many forms.

If they don't wanna be judged they should use common sense it's hard to listen to someone being so foolish causing controversy over stuff that isn't even mean it's foolish 

[PrincetonTiger]

35 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

 Why is it offensive?    I've heard that at my job on one form or another many times in my career.   I'm a union railroad worker.   Never once was I offended

It is the context of what he said and why

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, Jules said:

What Kaepernick started and what his initial protest was about was police brutality against minorities, in particular African Americans.

 

And I get that, I am down with a discussion on this and more awareness and it being fixed in communities.

 

Now it's become too branched out and lost it's initial meaning. It's anti Trump or Anti Owner or anti whatever. 

 

IMO if you want to successfully protest something and bring awareness to it AND FIX IT, you have to stick to the topic and keep it smaller.

 

It's all becoming too disorganized now to the point that the initial serious topic is now being lost in the shuffle IMO.

Which is also why I couldn't get behind the whole movement...He was doing it while wearing socks with cops as pigs on them...then later running around wearing a Fidel Castro t-shirt at press conference.....He was so rude and lost all credibility with me and anyone taking up his cause I lost respect for too. We can all agree there are many societal issues that need attention and improvement but taking such a hateful groups side like BLM  was a sign to me that I couldnt be supportive of your actions.

[jvan1973]

I am an over weight (not morbidbly mind you) has called me pork chop since the day I started.   I the first time.  

 

Now granted,  I work in a different kind of industry than most.  But my goodness,   everyone has to walk on egg shells so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt.    

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

It is the context of what he said and why

All he meant was the bosses can't let the workers run their business he just used an old saying big freaking deal 

[dgambill]

21 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There's a difference between instituting a dress code and mandating an act of patriotism. Public schools can require children to wear uniforms, they cannot require that children recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

But private schools can...and do...and the NFL is a private league.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, bananabucket said:

Every week there's a new story about *s getting offended over nothing.

I know right ridiculous 

[Nadine]

5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If they don't wanna be judged they should use common sense it's hard to listen to someone being so foolish causing controversy over stuff that isn't even mean it's foolish 

I didn't say anything about judging but do you see that both sides are judging?

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

It is the context of what he said and why

He is an employer,  like mine.   Apple's  to apples.    Just because we aren't on tv it's the same thing

[NFLfan]

 

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

I am an over weight (not morbidbly mind you) has called me pork chop since the day I started.   I the first time.  

 

Now granted,  I work in a different kind of industry than most.  But my goodness,   everyone has to walk on egg shells so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt.    

 

Are you offended by the players kneeling? That is another example of being offended. No?

[Cynjin]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Everyone has a right to decline participation in an act of patriotism, or a religious observance, etc. If you make that act a condition of someone's employment, it's a violation of their rights.

 

No it isn't, unless the employer is the government.  If it was a violation of their rights the NBA could not mandate it.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

All he meant was the bosses can't let the workers run their business he just used an old saying big freaking deal 

Okay 

 as you would be fine if your boss she’d a terrible light on you

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, Nadine said:

I didn't say anything about judging but do you see that both sides are judging?

Like i said the one side wouldn't judge if the other would use a little common sense and not be offended by non offensive things 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

He is an employer,  like mine.   Apple's  to apples.    Just because we aren't on tv it's the same thing

As I said earlier there are some phrases you never say around groups of people

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Okay 

 as you would be fine if your boss she’d a terrible light on you

yeah it was so terrible i

 

It's only been said for 100 years and no one has batted an eye lol