If The Pats Beat The Giants Does Brady......

[Jules]

Move past Montana in the public view for best ever or tie him or just sit behind him etc?

I am not a big fan of QB rankings. But, if your team has won 4 SBs and you won 2 MVPs and have a few records in your back pocket then like it or not.......Brady will get GOAT consideration by many.

The Montana supporters will point out that he never lost a SB though and never threw a pick in any of them.

The non Brady/Montana supporters will point out it's a team game and that debate will rage on.

Regardless, I have to admit I will be impressed if the Pats win it all this year with THIS defense of theirs which at times this season has looked pathetic to me.

[ViriLudant]

Hard to compare, in my honest opinion. Montana was the BEST playoff QB of all time. I don't think that there can be any argument there. Best stats, flawless in Superbowls, etc.

[shakedownstreet]

If The Pats Beat The Giants

this is where you lost me (puke)

[Dustin]

no

[shakedownstreet]

i'll bet he gets more endorsements for perfume & hair conditioners

[Jules]

i'll bet he gets more endorsements for perfume & hair conditioners

If he wins Sunday then yes. I like to think it's one of the driving forces behind this hunger in his eyes I am hearing much of.

[shakedownstreet]

If he wins Sunday then yes. I like to think it's one of the driving forces behind this hunger in his eyes I am hearing much of.

calvin kline still hasn't called him. a full page calvin kline magazine ad would be a crowning achievement for tom

i wanna hate him, but with his pretty hair and aromatic scent, i just can't

[CR91]

his ugg sales would go skyhigh

[ReMeDy]

I think Tim Tebow is already a better quarterback over Tom Brady, because a good quarterback sets example for children. Tom Brady just mouths off his opponents on the field, always looks ticked on the sidelines, dates a supermodel, and is an exhibitionist on the cover of package designs. What kind of message is that sending to kids? That you need to be handsome to find success? He needs to poke fun at himself more often, like Manning does.

Of course on-camera, Brady always wears that fake grin of his and polishes his dimple chin. What a poser.

[CR91]

I think Tim Tebow is already a better quarterback over Tom Brady, because a good quarterback sets example for children. Tom Brady just mouths off his opponents on the field, always looks ticked on the sidelines, dates a supermodel, and is an exhibitionist on the cover of package designs. What kind of message is that sending to kids? That you need to be handsome to find success? He needs to poke fun at himself more often, like Manning does.

Of course on-camera, Brady always wears that fake grin of his and polishes his dimple chin. What a poser.

remedy you just opened the flood gates

[Yehoodi]

I think Tim Tebow is already a better quarterback over Tom Brady, because a good quarterback sets example for children. Tom Brady just mouths off his opponents on the field, always looks ticked on the sidelines, dates a supermodel, and is an exhibitionist on the cover of package designs. What kind of message is that sending to kids? That you need to be handsome to find success? He needs to poke fun at himself more often, like Manning does.

Of course on-camera, Brady always wears that fake grin of his and polishes his dimple chin. What a poser.

well . . . well . . . well . . . lookie whats we gots posted rightcha hereya . . . not sure where to start . . . . . .

on a serious note, I think that althetes are role models and it great to see some that can bring some positive attributes into the equation and yes I agree that Tebow is a great role model . . .

[ReMeDy]

remedy you just opened the flood gates

Although I think the flood gates happened when this topic was posted .

[21isSuperman]

Why does it matter? Does it really matter if Analyst X says Brady is the best while Analyst Y says it's Montana while Analyst Z says it's Peyton? This isn't something one can judge and measure objectively. I have my opinions on the matter and that's all I need

[P-Money]

Why does it matter? Does it really matter if Analyst X says Brady is the best while Analyst Y says it's Montana while Analyst Z says it's Peyton? This isn't something one can judge and measure objectively. I have my opinions on the matter and that's all I need

Well put Superman. It doesn't matter. Lets just be grateful we've been blessed to witness such greatness by each of these superstars. I for one will be pulling for the Patriots this Sunday. Not because of any QB on the field but because of a certain owner that helped tremendously in getting the labor deal done so we could have a season this year and Indianapolis's first Super Bowl. After the high of getting the labor agreement done his beloved wife passes away crushing him and the whole Patriots organization. I haven't seen one article on this or any talk about it on TV this week which is really sad in a way. Just remember this Sunday as your watching the big game, fellow Colts fans, that Mr. Kraft is not at all a bad guy but IMO very deserving of taking that Lombardi trophy back to Gillette Stadium.

[ReMeDy]

I for one will be pulling for the Patriots this Sunday. Not because of any QB on the field but because of a certain owner that helped tremendously in getting the labor deal done so we could have a season this year and Indianapolis's first Super Bowl.

Actually, that was Jeff Saturday that did that.

I kid.

[P-Money]

Actually, that was Jeff Saturday that did that.

I kid.

Lol.... love your sig btw. I need to change mine. Hmmmm ... what to do

[Jules]

Well put Superman. It doesn't matter. Lets just be grateful we've been blessed to witness such greatness by each of these superstars. I for one will be pulling for the Patriots this Sunday. Not because of any QB on the field but because of a certain owner that helped tremendously in getting the labor deal done so we could have a season this year and Indianapolis's first Super Bowl. After the high of getting the labor agreement done his beloved wife passes away crushing him and the whole Patriots organization. I haven't seen one article on this or any talk about it on TV this week which is really sad in a way. Just remember this Sunday as your watching the big game, fellow Colts fans, that Mr. Kraft is not at all a bad guy but IMO very deserving of taking that Lombardi trophy back to Gillette Stadium.

All right. Enough of this Pats mushy talk. *sigh*

But, I swear the Giants owner was the next/other busiest in getting the deal done in the offseason too. Or so I read.

[dynasty13]

I think Tim Tebow is already a better quarterback over Tom Brady, because a good quarterback sets example for children. Tom Brady just mouths off his opponents on the field, always looks ticked on the sidelines, dates a supermodel, and is an exhibitionist on the cover of package designs. What kind of message is that sending to kids? That you need to be handsome to find success? He needs to poke fun at himself more often, like Manning does.

Of course on-camera, Brady always wears that fake grin of his and polishes his dimple chin. What a poser.

I'd like to think you're being sarcastic...but unfortunately this is right up your alley.

With all due respect, you saying that Brady needs to be 'more like Manning' in a profession based on results and fan entertainment is a little odd. 5 Superbowl appearances is 10 years starting is remarkable. Its amazing how different a public perception can be of someone when they are 'judged' from afar as opposed to someone who is exposed to them daily. We see it with Belichick, we see it with Brady...our two fanbases have come so far the last few years in meeting in the middle with mutual respect for one another. Unfortunately you're one of the ones left behind and you're running to catch up. Just stop hating...its getting pathetic now.

[IndyTrav]

calvin kline still hasn't called him. a full page calvin kline magazine ad would be a crowning achievement for tom

i wanna hate him, but with his pretty hair and aromatic scent, i just can't

I think a guy with Winston the Wolf as his avatar getting a 'like' from a guy named Jules is possibly they best thing I may have ever seen on this forum.

"Aww man, I shot Marvin in the face"

[chad72]

I think a guy with Winston the Wolf as his avatar getting a 'like' from a guy named Jules is possibly they best thing I may have ever seen on this forum.

"Aww man, I shot Marvin in the face"

That is probably one of the most erroneous things I have ever heard on this forum.

I know Jules' history with this forum, will definitely defend her here.

[IndyTrav]

That is probably one of the most erroneous things I have ever heard on this forum.

I know Jules' history with this forum, will definitely defend her here.

Sorry, no offense to Jules, It was just funny looking at Winston Wolf (from pulp fiction) And seeing Jules name (also the name of a character in Pulp Fiction).

[-JJ-]

I don't think it really matters and judging QBs is in reality impossible.

Having said that I could say Brady is playing better than Montana. Joe had the same elite players each year because there was no salary cap. Think about playing with the same team each season which included some hefty talent on both sides of the ball.

OTOH Joe played in an era of non-flag football.

As to rings, they don't tell the whole story of a QB but they are measured by them. It may not be fair but it is a big factor. I heard a radio host say something interesting...comparing to a student. The student may do well in the reg season with papers and pop quizes but the final exams and term paper are what they are measured on.

Also I learned a long time ago from someone that when you're "given the opportunity" to be in a championship game what do you do with it. Some players just step up to the call and others don't.

Witness Reggie Jackson mister october.

[Fx Stryker]

He may in some eyes. What if he loses though? What does that do to Tom?

[dynasty13]

He may in some eyes. What if he loses though? What does that do to Tom?

It does nothing to Tom...but it certainly gives credibility to Eli's quote in the preseason about being on Brady's level

[Dustin]

I'd like to think you're being sarcastic...but unfortunately this is right up your alley.

With all due respect, you saying that Brady needs to be 'more like Manning' in a profession based on results and fan entertainment is a little odd. 5 Superbowl appearances is 10 years starting is remarkable. Its amazing how different a public perception can be of someone when they are 'judged' from afar as opposed to someone who is exposed to them daily. We see it with Belichick, we see it with Brady...our two fanbases have come so far the last few years in meeting in the middle with mutual respect for one another. Unfortunately you're one of the ones left behind and you're running to catch up. Just stop hating...its getting pathetic now.

I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

[Fx Stryker]

It does nothing to Tom...but it certainly gives credibility to Eli's quote in the preseason about being on Brady's level

How wouldn't it? Headlines would be like Tom still can't win Super Bowl without dynasty defense. I can see people saying that.

[Batman]

Anyone that would begrudge Tom for losing this Super Bowl are haters who wouldn't give him credit no matter what happened. Tom carried a terrible defense to a number one seed and somehow made it to the Super Bowl. The latest SC poll showed that every state favors the Giants, as they should. The Giants are a terrible matchup for the Pats, and if the Pats manage to defeat a superior team, it'll just be icing on the cake for Brady. Manning went 3TD, 7INT during his superbowl run and relied on his defense heavily during the playoffs. Does it take away from his legacy that he hasn't won without a great defensive postseason run? I certainly don't think so. There are a lot more factors to consider when judging a QB.

I expect the giants to beat us, but if we pull the upset I'll be happy to be wrong.

[-JJ-]

Anyone that would begrudge Tom for losing this Super Bowl are haters who wouldn't give him credit no matter what happened. Tom carried a terrible defense to a number one seed and somehow made it to the Super Bowl. The latest SC poll showed that every state favors the Giants, as they should. The Giants are a terrible matchup for the Pats, and if the Pats manage to defeat a superior team, it'll just be icing on the cake for Brady. Manning went 3TD, 7INT during his superbowl run and relied on his defense heavily during the playoffs. Does it take away from his legacy that he hasn't won without a great defensive postseason run? I certainly don't think so. There are a lot more factors to consider when judging a QB.

I expect the giants to beat us, but if we pull the upset I'll be happy to be wrong.

It can't be an upset because NE is favored lol. Maybe for folks around the country.

The two teams are pretty even with a slight edge to offense for NE.

NE's big edge is their hurry up offense. The Giants aren't great at stopping that and infact are 30th in the league on stopping 2 min drills.

As fast as NE has been playing all season you might see an even faster tempo from Belichick right out of the gate. He's been practicing indoors with the heat up.

[dynasty13]

I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

hope so...its tough to tell sometimes with some posters...and like i said, id like to think it was a joke...but you never know with him ;)

[hawkeyes]

Teams win SBs not QBs, that said, IMO the simple fact that he had been on a team that won even 10 SBs wouldn't by itself mean he was better than a QB that had never won one!

[WSO]

The odd thing is either way his rings will be a measurement. Some people will argue that 4 rings makes him the greatest if he wins. Some will argue his 3-2 record takes him out of the greatest conversation.

I'm not saying I endorse either one but I know both pro and anti brady camps are going to have something to latch onto.

IMO I would put him just under Montana because what Montana did in the playoffs was astounding. And in a different era. I will say what Brady has accomplished over the past few years definitely puts him in the top 5 somewhere. If he wins this one, I would have no problem placing him in front of Manning seeing that Brady has the stats AND will have the rings. The big knock on him before was he wasn't a statistical monster which is slowly changing.

[GoPats]

If the Patriots win, Brady matches Montana and Bradshaw for titles and neither of those guys can hold a candle to Brady from a statistical standpoint. (Different era, I know.)

And yes - championships are team achievements, not individual ones.

But in this era, with the amount of roster turnover you see in the NFL, "dynasties" like the Patriots were not supposed to happen. The fact that they've been the AFC representative in five of the last 10 Super Bowls is an undeniably impressive achievement. And the only two real constants have been Brady and Belichick.

I'm not inclined to "rank" all-time players, but another title would absolutely put Brady in at least the top five QBs of all time, and probably more like the top three.

I have an opinion, of course, but it's only an opinion. ;)

[dynasty13]

How wouldn't it? Headlines would be like Tom still can't win Super Bowl without dynasty defense. I can see people saying that.

If you can see people saying that, then it also undermines every point that Colts fans have ever tried to make about how Peyton 'carried' the Colts all those years when they had a bad defense and thats what makes him the best. Look...you cant win the Superbowl every year. You just cant. Its hard enough to win consistently in this league...let alone do what the Patriots have managed to do over the last decade. A popular comment among Patriot haters is 'well what have they won since spygate?' They think its some magical trump card that undermines Brady and proves that hes incapable of winning.

The truth is...all they've done since spygate is go 16-0, 14-2, and 13-3 while representing the AFC in the Superbowl twice in that 5 year span. Its a weak sauce argument to say they havent done anything since that story broke. As far as Brady himself...he can only improve on his legacy at this point...he cant negate it. If the Patriots lose this game, do you really think people will look at Brady in a more negative light because he 'only' won 3 of the 5 Superbowls hes been in as opposed to 3 of the 4 Superbowls he had been in? Its hard to win in this league.

[ReMeDy]

hope so...its tough to tell sometimes with some posters...and like i said, id like to think it was a joke...but you never know with him ;)

It wasn't a joke... Nah I'm just kidding about not joking... Actually, I'm joking about kidding that I'm not joking. Once Tom Brady retires at the age of 60, it wont matter anyways.

[Fx Stryker]

If you can see people saying that, then it also undermines every point that Colts fans have ever tried to make about how Peyton 'carried' the Colts all those years when they had a bad defense and thats what makes him the best. Look...you cant win the Superbowl every year. You just cant. Its hard enough to win consistently in this league...let alone do what the Patriots have managed to do over the last decade. A popular comment among Patriot haters is 'well what have they won since spygate?' They think its some magical trump card that undermines Brady and proves that hes incapable of winning.

The truth is...all they've done since spygate is go 16-0, 14-2, and 13-3 while representing the AFC in the Superbowl twice in that 5 year span. Its a weak sauce argument to say they havent done anything since that story broke. As far as Brady himself...he can only improve on his legacy at this point...he cant negate it. If the Patriots lose this game, do you really think people will look at Brady in a more negative light because he 'only' won 3 of the 5 Superbowls hes been in as opposed to 3 of the 4 Superbowls he had been in? Its hard to win in this league.

I'm not saying I want them to. I have a lot of respect for Tom. That is the big thing with analysts. Peyton could only win one. We'll just have to see how things go.

[zach_mcqueen]

I think the best person to ask is Montana himself:

http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/02/02/montana-take-brady-belongs-in-greatest-qb-discussion/?module=HP11_headline_stack

According to Montana, Brady does not have to do anything - he already is the greatest of all time. I was watching NFL channel and a few other people agree with this assessment - McNabb being one of them.

Personally, I think Brady should win the SB in order to be unquestionably the absolute greatest.

[Dustin]

Montana is the best ever. Unless somebody throws 5,000 every year and goes 5-0 in super bowls, my opinion wont change.

[zach_mcqueen]

Montana is the best ever. Unless somebody throws 5,000 every year and goes 5-0 in super bowls, my opinion wont change.

But Montana never once threw for 5000 yards. Granted he did win 4 SBs so if your criteria for judging greatness is on that one category - SB wins then yes, Montana should be the GOAT.

I personally think it has to be a combination of SB wins, personal stats, and awards since these 3 categories are the most quantifiable.

[CCH]

STATZz >>> RiNGZ

(sorry, had to )

[Dustin]

But Montana never once threw for 5000 yards. Granted he did win 4 SBs so if your criteria for judging greatness is on that one category - SB wins then yes, Montana should be the GOAT.

I personally think it has to be a combination of SB wins, personal stats, and awards since these 3 categories are the most quantifiable.

I know Montana never threw for 5,000. I meant that the QB would have to be obscenely good for me to change my opinion.