If The Pats Beat The Giants Does Brady......

[Yehoodi]

Teams win SBs not QBs, that said, IMO the simple fact that he had been on a team that won even 10 SBs wouldn't by itself mean he was better than a QB that had never won one!

The last time i checked by passing yards, passing TDS, rushing TDs, etc are all teams stats . . . teams create passing yards and TDS and rushing TDs and not QBs and RBs. . .. see I can play that game too . . . it is all tomato tomato, or potato potato (pronounciations left out) . .. .

every thing and I mean everything, including MVP awards, has a team elements as much as a individual elements . . .a QB sometimes gets created for a team's passing yards, and to a degree he was something to do with it, but you need blocking, WRs to run routes, several good WRs so as not to all be double teamed, a good throw, good WR selection and a good catch, and really only two of those have any direct correlation to the QB, the WR selection and throws . .. but many will seem to want to stuff that stat as being a QB stat and individualize to him, but is not the case, to a degree it is, but not totally . . .

and the same can be said for team wins (just as urself a questions as to how PM got the M VP award in 2008), and the reason why the QB (kind of like a pitcher in baseball) gets the W/Ls on his resume is the fact that he has portion invovled in the game and he touches the ball on about half the plays the teams is involved it . . .and he can effect the game good or bad as he is involved to a degree on 1/2 the plays . ...

so just as a QB is involved to a portion in passing yards he is also invovled to a portion with teams wins . . . so the stats and wins are equally interchangeable in a QB's resume . . .

[Yehoodi]

Montana is the best ever. Unless somebody throws 5,000 every year and goes 5-0 in super bowls, my opinion wont change.

I not sure if I would put Montana above Bradshaw in the all time lists . . . both great QBs, both have 4 rings, both have MVPs (Montana 2, Bradshaw 1), both lead the league in QBs stats during their careers, both had had top ten offenses and defense, etc . . . Joe might of had one or two "signature" drives (but that had a lot do with him not getting the job done during the game),

other than that I don't really see the difference between the two QBs . ..KI dont drink the Montana coolaid like some in this world, Bradshaw and Montana are a lot closer than many want to admit . . .

[ViriLudant]

Sorry, Yehoodi, Montana was much better in the playoffs than Bradshaw.

As far as the OP is concerned, Montana just told the NFL Network that Brady is the best of all time.

Guess that ends things.

[Dustin]

I not sure if I would put Montana above Bradshaw in the all time lists . . . both great QBs, both have 4 rings, both have MVPs (Montana 2, Bradshaw 1), both lead the league in QBs stats during their careers, both had had top ten offenses and defense, etc . . . Joe might of had one or two "signature" drives (but that had a lot do with him not getting the job done during the game),

other than that I don't really see the difference between the two QBs . ..KI dont drink the Montana coolaid like some in this world, Bradshaw and Montana are a lot closer than many want to admit . . .

I stopped reading there.

[Yehoodi]

Sorry, Yehoodi, Montana was much better in the playoffs than Bradshaw.

As far as the OP is concerned, Montana just told the NFL Network that Brady is the best of all time.

Guess that ends things.

ViriLundant, people can say what they want about Montana, but bottom line Bradshaw is 14-5 (0.736 win %) and montana is 16-7 (0.695 win %) . . . not sure how many can say Montana was 'much' better that Bradshaw . . .

i think Bradshaw's place is history is reduced is becuase he likes to play the role of a clown and people think he is stupid, but he is far from it . . .unlike Montana, he played in the league before the mel blount rule, after that rule, his stats went up . . .

[Dustin]

ViriLundant, people can say what they want about Montana, but bottom line Bradshaw is 14-5 (0.736 win %) and montana is 16-7 (0.695 win %) . . . not sure how many can say Montana was 'much' better that Bradshaw . . .

i think Bradshaw's place is history is reduced is becuase he likes to play the role of a clown and people think he is stupid, but he is far from it . . .unlike Montana, he played in the league before the mel blount rule, after that rule, his stats went up . . .

Montana didn't have the Steel Curtain

[Yehoodi]

I stopped reading there.

but you will never learn if you do not read and understands things that you may think (or have been told in the past) are truths . . .

I for one can look at things objectively and with an open mind . . . and i don't fall all gushy and wide eyed and bushie tailed about a pass or two, or a highlight films . . . highlight films don't win SBs, players and teams win SBs . . . and if so one gets the job done with out highlight films does mean he is less of a players that one that gets the same job done with highlight films . . .

All i care about did you get the job done, yes or no, if so then i will tip my cap to someone who gets the job done, whether or not you do or don't have a space in your teeth, a "unitelligent" drawl, or on the cover of a GQ . . .

some will say that Bradshaw had a better supporting case, and that whole "great D" mularky, well every get QB has had a great supporting cast . . . and many don't credit Montanas teammates on defense . . .

just to put in perspective the supporting cast for the two QBs, here is the teams numbers for the 4 SBs years, the numbers are the offense rank in points and yards and the defensive rank in points and yards, can you tell me which is teh 70s steelers and 80 49ers . . .

team one (off pts, yards; def pts, yards)

7, 13 ; 2, 2

2, 2 ; 1, 10

7, 2 ; 8, 3

1, 1 ; 3, 4

Team two

6, 8 ; 2, 1

5, 7 ; 2, 4

5, 8 ; 1, 3

1, 1 ; 5, 2

if you notice for the most part they are all top 10 ranks, and many in the top three . . .

[Yehoodi]

Montana didn't have the Steel Curtain

please see my post #44, supra . . .

[Dustin]

please see my post #44, supra . . .

I understand where you are coming from with your post, but I am being objective. Both have the same # of Super Bowls, but one has racked up much better stats and one was at best a game-manager for arguably the greatest defense of all-time and a HOF RB who retired as the 2nd all-time leading rusher.

I also really don't care if Bradshaw comes off as stupid anyway. If your winning Super Bowls I don't care if you have an IQ of 45.

I don't see how you can honestly say that Montana in the same sentence as Bradshaw let alone being better.

[Dustin]

but you will never learn if you do not read and understands things that you may think (or have been told in the past) are truths . . .

I for one can look at things objectively and with an open mind . . . and i don't fall all gushy and wide eyed and bushie tailed about a pass or two, or a highlight films . . . highlight films don't win SBs, players and teams win SBs . . . and if so one gets the job done with out highlight films does mean he is less of a players that one that gets the same job done with highlight films . . .

All i care about did you get the job done, yes or no, if so then i will tip my cap to someone who gets the job done, whether or not you do or don't have a space in your teeth, a "unitelligent" drawl, or on the cover of a GQ . . .

some will say that Bradshaw had a better supporting case, and that whole "great D" mularky, well every get QB has had a great supporting cast . . . and many don't credit Montanas teammates on defense . . .

just to put in perspective the supporting cast for the two QBs, here is the teams numbers for the 4 SBs years, the numbers are the offense rank in points and yards and the defensive rank in points and yards, can you tell me which is teh 70s steelers and 80 49ers . . .

team one (off pts, yards; def pts, yards)

7, 13 ; 2, 2

2, 2 ; 1, 10

7, 2 ; 8, 3

1, 1 ; 3, 4

Team two

6, 8 ; 2, 1

5, 7 ; 2, 4

5, 8 ; 1, 3

1, 1 ; 5, 2

if you notice for the most part they are all top 10 ranks, and many in the top three . . .

BTW Team 2 is Pittsburgh.

[GoPats]

ViriLundant, people can say what they want about Montana, but bottom line Bradshaw is 14-5 (0.736 win %) and montana is 16-7 (0.695 win %) . . . not sure how many can say Montana was 'much' better that Bradshaw . . .

i think Bradshaw's place is history is reduced is becuase he likes to play the role of a clown and people think he is stupid, but he is far from it . . .unlike Montana, he played in the league before the mel blount rule, after that rule, his stats went up . . .

Interesting points Yehoodi, but when people think of the Steelers' teams in the 70s, they immediately associate the defense and the Steel Curtain. When people think of the 49ers dynasties, they think of Montana and Rice. I was a little too young to see and appreciate the Steelers in their heyday but I certainly remember Montana's postseason heroics. Maybe you're right about Bradshaw being underrated a bit, but I don't think anyone's surpassed Montana to this point. (Not until Sunday anyway. ;) )

[-JJ-]

Interesting points Yehoodi, but when people think of the Steelers' teams in the 70s, they immediately associate the defense and the Steel Curtain. When people think of the 49ers dynasties, they think of Montana and Rice. I was a little too young to see and appreciate the Steelers in their heyday but I certainly remember Montana's postseason heroics. Maybe you're right about Bradshaw being underrated a bit, but I don't think anyone's surpassed Montana to this point. (Not until Sunday anyway. ;) )

I saw both teams play..mostly watched the playoffs. The Steelers did have a great offense too of course with Swan,Franco etc.

The defense of course was great but so was the offense.

49ers also had a good defense...I don't remember the names except Lonnie Lott who was no slouch:)

I remember Montana's first outing. It was against NE in SF lol. I think we had a lead, had a slim chance of the playoffs which didn't happen as we had to back door in. They pulled the starter (forget who) and brought in Montana. I thought who's this bum. Can't remember if we ended up winning but Montana was a real pain because he was scrappy. I still thought..eh he'll never make it. LOL.