Throwing #18 Under The Bus

[amff]

I gotta say I am a little disappointed at how many people are so willing to just toss Peyton aside after all he did for this Franchise, Indianapolis, Indiana, and all of us Colts fans. I know the season sucked, i know there is no guarentee that he will be healthy. But i am almost sickened by people's readiness to just drop him off and walk away like he was on the practice squad.

[coltsblue1844]

I gotta say I am a little disappointed at how many people are so willing to just toss Peyton aside after all he did for this Franchise, Indianapolis, Indiana, and all of us Colts fans. I know the season sucked, i know there is no guarentee that he will be healthy. But i am almost sickened by people's readiness to just drop him off and walk away like he was on the practice squad.

Its as if after only one season removed from playing at a very high level, everyone (media included) has forgotten just how AMAZING Peyton is as an NFL QB. I'm all for drafting Andrew Luck, and i hope he turns out to be the second best QB of all time...but if healthy, i want us to have THE best QB of all time finish his career as OUR starting QB. Everyone talks about how we HAVE to cut him because of the salary cap implications etc...yet not one single person thought his contract would keep us from being able to have him as our QB before he was hurt! The amount of money that Luck will count vs the cap is hardly a penny more than Collins/Painter/Orlovski made this past season, and i would MUCH rather have him as our current back up and future starter.

Why is it that if we draft Matt Kalil with our first pick, no one has a problem with Manning's salary + Kalil's salary...but if we take a QB it mysteriously wont work? They say "but we already have a starting QB if Peyton is healthy"...but we also already have 2 starting tackles for the Oline if Castanzo and Ijalana are healthy...High caliber QBs are a LOT harder to find than quality olinemen are.

People are excited because we may end up with the next big thing at QB...i understand it, i really do...but lets not forget about THE big thing at QB if Peyton is healthy and wants to play out his contract.

[rabidfan77]

Amff there is a much larger fraction of colts fan who would love peyton to retire after 16 years as a colt and luck succeed him in a graceful transition. However reality might be different, there is no way beside peyton playing a season to know if the nerve has healed and that's what complicates this issue. Regardless of the outcome most colts fans want peyton to get a graceful send off he is owed way more, but this is the least the colts can do for the man who made this team matter again after so many years of garbage (except 95 season). I think the drama with GB and favre is what the colts greatly want to avoid.

[WSO]

Edit double post

[21isSuperman]

I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, but you have to do what smart and fair. Is it really that smart and fair to keep Peyton here? He would probably have a better chance at winning a championship somewhere else. I think it's selfish to say to him "you are going to stay here and spend your last few years in the league tutoring your replacement instead of winning a championship or two". That's not his job, that's the job of the coaches.

[WSO]

No one is kicking him to the curb or not wanting him to be here just for kicks. Some of us look at the situation logically and have come to the conclusion that based on his current situation, it would make more sense for the Colts to part ways. Some of us are Colts fans. Not just Peyton Manning fans. I want this team to be good for as long as possible.

Now if you have logical reasons as to why Manning should stay such as based on his salary, health, or other factors I'd love to hear it. Because the reasons I keep hearing we should keep Manning is because it's Peyton Manning. He is an immortal football messiah that is exempt to logic. WE MUST KEEP HIM BECAUSE IT'S PEYTON MANNING. Sorry folks there's 50 something other Colts players too.

[jjcolts]

I look at it as someone wooing another girl while still married

[jjcolts]

Edit double post

wow you already have the luck avatar.....

[Dustin]

I look at it as someone wooing another girl while still married

What if your wife is a 36 year old QB coming off of 3 neck surgeries?

[jjcolts]

What if your wife is a 36 year old QB coming off of 3 neck surgeries?

I don't get the humor?

[Dustin]

I don't get the humor?

Never mind.

[189344Colts]

I agree with amff.... I know there is a buttload of money at stake but after putting 13 years into this team, tossing him aside before seeing how (if) he can play would be like throwing a car away because it needs a fuel pump after rebuilding the engine and transmission. Will I walk from the colts if he's gone? No. But it will have a HUGE impact that I'm not sure Irsay will ever recover from.

[DILLIGAFER]

I gotta say I am a little disappointed at how many people are so willing to just toss Peyton aside after all he did for this Franchise, Indianapolis, Indiana, and all of us Colts fans. I know the season sucked, i know there is no guarentee that he will be healthy. But i am almost sickened by people's readiness to just drop him off and walk away like he was on the practice squad.

Yep.

[Dustin]

I think I've seen this thread before.... several times actually.

[DILLIGAFER]

I think I've seen this thread before.... several times actually.

I remember multipul pro luck threads as well. Whats your point?

[jjcolts]

Never mind.

There is a reason, why I am not a millionaire or a CEO of a huge corporation.....because I am human..and I realize that NFL is a big business.

Again......while I look forward to the future of this franchise.....there were many painful years prior to Peyton's era and I am very thankful that I had him on the team that I root for. At this point....I am not going to all hail as if our future is bright. The game still has to be played..I don't give a rat's butt about what we look like on paper.

Let the scout do their job and the fans do theirs.

[deedub75]

If Irsay is being honest, then if Peyton is healthy he will be a Colt. No one is throwing him under the bus. This is a unique situation. No team has ever had its HOF QB go down like this and end up the the #1 pick. If this were a knee, ankle, shoulder injury then I think the situation would be totally different.

Everyone seems to forget that Peyton and his agent wrote the contract the way it is know full well that Peyton wasn't fully healthy and all parties signed off on it.

[Dustin]

I remember multipul pro luck threads as well. Whats your point?

This same thread being is being repeated every 5 minutes is my point.

[jjcolts]

If Irsay is being honest, then if Peyton is healthy he will be a Colt. No one is throwing him under the bus. This is a unique situation. No team has ever had its HOF QB go down like this and end up the the #1 pick. If this were a knee, ankle, shoulder injury then I think the situation would be totally different.

Everyone seems to forget that Peyton and his agent wrote the contract the way it is know full well that Peyton wasn't fully healthy and all parties signed off on it.

Irsay has gone on record saying he also knew that Peyton was not fully healthy.

[Dustin]

There is a reason, why I am not a millionaire or a CEO of a huge corporation.....because I am human..and I realize that NFL is a big business.

Again......while I look forward to the future of this franchise.....there were many painful years prior to Peyton's era and I am very thankful that I had him on the team that I root for. At this point....I am not going to all hail as if our future is bright. The game still has to be played..I don't give a rat's butt about what we look like on paper.

Let the scout do their job and the fans do theirs.

Whoa bro, I was making a joke based on what you said. there was no hidden meaning or anything.

[DILLIGAFER]

This same thread being is being repeated every 5 minutes is my point.

[The Peytonator]

I feel ya OP. I had the same thought on the matter a couple days ago, but now I do realize, the best thing the team can do is release him on that checkup date. It's not something I say lightly, because he is the reason I became a fan of the game.

I don't like to use the term 'rebuilding', because that implies you have absolutely nothing on your team. We have some good players, but we also have some aging veterans whose price tag would not make them a prudent signing. Manning, while he is under contract, is a very strange situation. His cap hit this year is not the problem. The problem is that if he's not released this offseason, and we wait a year or two, the cap dead weight would be far too much to handle.

Nobody on here is throwing Big P under the bus, we just realize there is a once in a generation quarterback entering the draft, and he is ours to take. As a football team, you don't pass on such a prospect because there's a 50/50 chance your 36 year old quarterback can play another season, much less another 4. They would be doing no favors to Peyton or Luck if they tried to keep both of them. Spending a good 30 mil on one position does not make football sense, especially since both their contracts would be increasing with each year.

It sucks for us as Colt fans, but as a fan of the game I kinda think it's exciting. At least so far this offseason, I like where our team is headed, and if Peyton is playing for someone else next year, we'll get to root for him to make the kind of exit he deserves. Think about how dominant San Fransisco could be next year with him under center. This will be an interesting offseason, after a rather dull season. I look forward to seeing how the cards fall.

[Dustin]

:waah:

Yes.

[jjcolts]

There is a reason, why I am not a millionaire or a CEO of a huge corporation.....because I am human..and I realize that NFL is a big business.

Again......while I look forward to the future of this franchise.....there were many painful years prior to Peyton's era and I am very thankful that I had him on the team that I root for. At this point....I am not going to all hail as if our future is bright. The game still has to be played..I don't give a rat's butt about what we look like on paper.

Let the scout do their job and the fans do theirs.

What is your point....I wasn't looking for a hidden meaning.....

[Dustin]

I feel ya OP. I had the same thought on the matter a couple days ago, but now I do realize, the best thing the team can do is release him on that checkup date. It's not something I say lightly, because he is the reason I became a fan of the game.

I don't like to use the term 'rebuilding', because that implies you have absolutely nothing on your team. We have some good players, but we also have some aging veterans whose price tag would not make them a prudent signing. Manning, while he is under contract, is a very strange situation. His cap hit this year is not the problem. The problem is that if he's not released this offseason, and we wait a year or two, the cap dead weight would be far too much to handle.

Nobody on here is throwing Big P under the bus, we just realize there is a once in a generation quarterback entering the draft, and he is ours to take. As a football team, you don't pass on such a prospect because there's a 50/50 chance your 36 year old quarterback can play another season, much less another 4. They would be doing no favors to Peyton or Luck if they tried to keep both of them. Spending a good 30 mil on one position does not make football sense, especially since both their contracts would be increasing with each year.

It sucks for us as Colt fans, but as a fan of the game I kinda think it's exciting. At least so far this offseason, I like where our team is headed, and if Peyton is playing for someone else next year, we'll get to root for him to make the kind of exit he deserves. Think about how dominant San Fransisco could be next year with him under center. This will be an interesting offseason, after a rather dull season. I look forward to seeing how the cards fall.

^This guy right here.

[Dustin]

What is your point....I wasn't looking for a hidden meaning.....

Never mind.

[smittywerb]

In my defense, I am not throwing PM under the bus. I mean, EVERYONE is aware of the elephant in the room so it has to be discussed. If PM is ready to go, then cool. But we have to discuss him not being able to go and making the tough decision because it is reality. It is possible that PM may not play football again. Doesn't mean we disregard it and think everything is gonna be fine.

But I'm all for keeping PM, but I'm also a realist. So, if the decision to cut Peyton has to be made, then it should be made in a respectful manner.

[Smitto]

The sooner we all realize that this is a business the better it will be, cant pay a 36yr old QB 28mil if your gonna draft another highly touted QB to sit on the bench, especially if he's had multiple surgeries to his neck.. i mean come on its his neck, those helmet to helmet injuries arent pretty let alone patty cake hits.... let PM retire and enjoy his family life.

[GoColts8818]

I don't think ayone is throwing Peyton under the bus. In fact I think most of us still love Peyton. I don't think if we did a poll of who do you want to be the starter next year a healty Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, or RG3 that most people wouldn't pick Peyton.

With that said there needs to be a realization of what's going on here. There is a very real question about Peyton Manning's health going forward. I don't know if you can take the risk and lock yourself into Peyton's contract for the next four years with any questions about his health because if you get it wrong the results will be a diaster for the franchise in terms of the salary cap.

This isn't a case of people trying to pick Luck or RG3 over Manning for the most part. It's a case of picking Luck or RG3 because we might not be able to have Peyton.

I don't think anyone is here is going yippy skippy let's cut Peyton I can't wait! I think almost all of us know that will be a very dark day for this franchise even if it's what has to be done.

Someone said it another thread, just because people can accept what is going on doesn't mean they have to like it.

[mouthofsouth]

No one is kicking him to the curb or not wanting him to be here just for kicks. Some of us look at the situation logically and have come to the conclusion that based on his current situation, it would make more sense for the Colts to part ways. Some of us are Colts fans. Not just Peyton Manning fans. I want this team to be good for as long as possible.

Now if you have logical reasons as to why Manning should stay such as based on his salary, health, or other factors I'd love to hear it. Because the reasons I keep hearing we should keep Manning is because it's Peyton Manning. He is an immortal football messiah that is exempt to logic. WE MUST KEEP HIM BECAUSE IT'S PEYTON MANNING. Sorry folks there's 50 something other Colts players too.

Okay, Andrew. Just don't turn out to be another Matt Leinart.

[mrati2d]

There is nobody here that looks forward to Peyton being gone ( I assume anyway) and none of our opinions matter anyway, Irsay and Manning are the onl ones that really mean anything. But the world goes on either way as bad as that sounds. Pretty sure my wife is getting tired of my ups and downs talking about the future of the Colts. Excited about the rebuild, angry because Peyton should have gotten it a few years ago. My rational mind questions bringing him back even if he is "healthy" enough to start the season. My emotions want to see him out there till he refuses to suit up anymore. Its tough to deal with.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

As a Colts fan I don't have to make any decisions about PM's future. Irsay refers to the Colts as a family then as a business. Which is it? Both are quite different. But when you just start hacking away at your family core or the foundation your business was built upon you cause more problems than your fixing. Peyton does not have to be cut, or let go, or traded for this team to survive or rebuild. You can't just cut your head off and survive. He is the head or leader of this Colts team! You can lose an arm, leg, or other member and still survive but not your head. He will be a great draw for other talented players to want to be a Colt. If you say how can we take a chance on PM being healthy next season regardless of what he has done for the organization, fans and team then my question to you is how can we be sure that any decision we make at any position especially QB is going to work out favorably? You can't and Peyton looked great in 2010 and can be still. Peyton is not going to >>> his team, fans, or organization over. If he isn't healthy then he will not play of his own choice! Trust and honor will make a business or a family better but anything less than that can erode them at their foundation.

[19colt]

Why do people think Manning will count as $28-$30 million against the cap?

If he stays with the Colts then his cap hit will be around the same it has been his whole career. The Colts didn't have issues making playoffs and Superbowls then.

[04DarkShadowGT]

I gotta say I am a little disappointed at how many people are so willing to just toss Peyton aside after all he did for this Franchise, Indianapolis, Indiana, and all of us Colts fans. I know the season sucked, i know there is no guarentee that he will be healthy. But i am almost sickened by people's readiness to just drop him off and walk away like he was on the practice squad.

You are thinking of it from an emotional level because its not your $$ involved. You arent the one writing a 28,000,000 check one year after writing a 26,000,000 check and you may not get anything out of that nearly 60 million dollars in two years.

What are you going to do if Peyton gets hurt again next season? What about if he comes back and isnt the same?

You are going to be hosed big time on your 2013 cap beause all of that 28 million you just paid comes right back onto your cap, well less the 2012 portion. It is a HUGE gamble, a huge gamble on a 36 year old QB coming off three neck surgeries. And as much as some on here try to say it, this team is not winning a SB even if Manning is 100% healthy. You cannot afford to sign all the free agents we have so you are going to lose some players. Plus everyone is another year older. Our best players are all getting old.

Its as if after only one season removed from playing at a very high level, everyone (media included) has forgotten just how AMAZING Peyton is as an NFL QB. I'm all for drafting Andrew Luck, and i hope he turns out to be the second best QB of all time...but if healthy, i want us to have THE best QB of all time finish his career as OUR starting QB. Everyone talks about how we HAVE to cut him because of the salary cap implications etc...yet not one single person thought his contract would keep us from being able to have him as our QB before he was hurt! The amount of money that Luck will count vs the cap is hardly a penny more than Collins/Painter/Orlovski made this past season, and i would MUCH rather have him as our current back up and future starter.

Why is it that if we draft Matt Kalil with our first pick, no one has a problem with Manning's salary + Kalil's salary...but if we take a QB it mysteriously wont work? They say "but we already have a starting QB if Peyton is healthy"...but we also already have 2 starting tackles for the Oline if Castanzo and Ijalana are healthy...High caliber QBs are a LOT harder to find than quality olinemen are.

Well probably because you cant play two QBs at once, but you CAN play 1 QB and a 1 lineman. I dont get how this is even a question.

Why do people think Manning will count as $28-$30 million against the cap?

If he stays with the Colts then his cap hit will be around the same it has been his whole career. The Colts didn't have issues making playoffs and Superbowls then.

That is what he will count if he is paid the bonus of 28 mill and then either retires, gets hurt, or gets cut after that. He wont count that if he is healhty the entire length of the contract, but lets be real honest that is unlikely.

[Susie Q]

No one is kicking him to the curb or not wanting him to be here just for kicks. Some of us look at the situation logically and have come to the conclusion that based on his current situation, it would make more sense for the Colts to part ways. Some of us are Colts fans. Not just Peyton Manning fans. I want this team to be good for as long as possible.

Now if you have logical reasons as to why Manning should stay such as based on his salary, health, or other factors I'd love to hear it. Because the reasons I keep hearing we should keep Manning is because it's Peyton Manning. He is an immortal football messiah that is exempt to logic. WE MUST KEEP HIM BECAUSE IT'S PEYTON MANNING. Sorry folks there's 50 something other Colts players too.

Well I think most know there are 50+ other players on the team and look at the season they had without Peyton. I haven't heard OP wanting to keep Peyton just because he's Peyton but want him to stay if he's healthy and that no one knows at this time.

We will know when Irsay tells us what is happening and not before. Who knows Irsay may decide to cut ties with Peyton even if he's healthy and then Irsay can deal with the reprocussions at that time.

As far as the money goes that is also Irsays problem because he has stated that this was not a problem and if it is he should just come out and say he has rethought his decision and the organization can't take that kind of hit and he has to cut ties with Peyton. He will just have to be totally honest with what he tells fans when he makes the decision.

I really hope he just tells everyone exactly why he cuts Peyton if that is the decision he makes.

[smittywerb]

As a Colts fan I don't have to make any decisions about PM's future. Irsay refers to the Colts as a family then as a business. Which is it? Both are quite different. But when you just start hacking away at your family core or the foundation your business was built upon you cause more problems than your fixing. Peyton does not have to be cut, or let go, or traded for this team to survive or rebuild. You can't just cut your head off and survive. He is the head or leader of this Colts team! You can lose an arm, leg, or other member and still survive but not your head. He will be a great draw for other talented players to want to be a Colt. If you say how can we take a chance on PM being healthy next season regardless of what he has done for the organization, fans and team then my question to you is how can we be sure that any decision we make at any position especially QB is going to work out favorably? You can't and Peyton looked great in 2010 and can be still. Peyton is not going to >>> his team, fans, or organization over. If he isn't healthy then he will not play of his own choice! Trust and honor will make a business or a family better but anything less than that can erode them at their foundation.

We know what Peyton has done for us and what he will do for us, but we can not pay him $28 million just for him to get hurt and retire. No way around it. We can not handicap ourselves for the next 4 years because we want to show Peyton support. Believe it or not, this organization support throughout his entire career, definitely financially. Now on the football field, I feel it could have been done a different way but the point is this organization did whatever to appease him. Just because he is Peyton Manning, do we have to throw him even more money if he can't play because we "owe" it to him? Riddle me this, if it was Jeff Saturday with the neck problem, would you bring him back? Maybe he hasn't as much of an off-the-field impact as manning, but he definitely gave us a very good center to watch.

[Jaric]

I gotta say I am a little disappointed at how many people are so willing to just toss Peyton aside after all he did for this Franchise, Indianapolis, Indiana, and all of us Colts fans. I know the season sucked, i know there is no guarentee that he will be healthy. But i am almost sickened by people's readiness to just drop him off and walk away like he was on the practice squad.

I don't think it's throwing him under the bus to understand it's unreasonable to ask Irsay to spend another 20 some million dollars of our salary cap without knowing if Manning can play or not.

I doubt there is anyone here who is happy that Manning might not be able to play again or might never play in a Colts uniform again. I know I'm not. But wailing and gnashing teeth isn't going to accomplish anything.

[Kyle]

The sooner we all realize that this is a business the better it will be, cant pay a 36yr old QB 28mil if your gonna draft another highly touted QB to sit on the bench, especially if he's had multiple surgeries to his neck.. i mean come on its his neck, those helmet to helmet injuries arent pretty let alone patty cake hits.... let PM retire and enjoy his family life.

He does not want to retire, he wants to be the colts QB. How about we let him do that....

[The Fish]

Peyton should be the starter forever!

[Kyle]

Peyton should be the starter forever!

he should be our starter until he is done playing.